LCD TopGun as HID-Mouse

[ZeroPoint]

The LCD TopGun is a very good product except for the constant driver issue, especially with Vista. Some even have boot problems and/or slow system performance.

Why not just "cut the cord" and replace the firmware in the gun and let it act as a HID-mouse. This way it would work "plug and play" on any operating system including mac.

Design issues:

The cord should be replaced with usb only (remove the xbox plug and MAYBE the recoil power).

The firmware should auto detect usb and ps/2 (as in mouse/keyboard ps/2 with adapter). The main reason it should be available in ps/2 mode is easier translation to other devices when f.ex. using adapters for consoles.

In USB mode the gun should report as both a HID-mouse and a HID-gamepad (at the same time) and selecting what to use by the switch underneath. (It is important that both HID devices are active all the time !!!) The gamepad-mode will enable more "not supported" games to be played.

It MUST report 65536 and NOT 256 steps in gamepad mode even if the resolution itself doesn´t support this. (It actually reports 256 steps today in XBOX-mode and this is no good!) This must be fixed in the firmware by averaging or whatever. (Todays gun work somehow with 256 steps except that there is a large gap in the steps above center.)

For game consoles there should be available separate adapters that easily translates the ps/2 mouse to work with any console either as a gun device or as gamepad axis (with center in center of screen).

Recoil: Is it really needed ? (If no separate recoil power is used the recoil should not work in ps/2 mode).

The gamepad axis should be centered when pointing the gun away from the screen.

Off-screen shoot reload function may be an issue

The five point led stands should be kept as they are with the horizontal or vertical mounting options. (Horizontal mounting with closer distance between each point decreases required distance from screen. 27 inches distance on a 22" widescreen with 8 inches between the outer leds.)

Conclusion:

It must be up to HKEMS (or someone third party with big bucks) to make this possible. I would personally buy hundreds of these if they were available. Just so fed up with some issues (boot problems, sudden disconnects, people wanting vista for some reason ?) of the current version.

If there is enough demand for a new version of the LCD TopGun, there may be one I hope.

If HKEMS makes a new GunCon 3 compatible gun with drivers for PC it will probably result in problems all over again.  I think a adapter solution would be much better and they can earn extra money on them too !?  - What do you think ?

Please make a serious wishlist or comments to my suggestions to make a perfect gun. 

[ZeroPoint]

Excellent News from HKEMS !!! 

HKEMS announced the following yesterday:

**********

Our EMS TopGun (#0508) was released at January 2006. It was not designed to support Vista, as Vista hasn’t been release yet at that time. EMS TopGun does not support Vista, because of the hardware limitation. We have tried our best to fix this by upgrading the driver, but we finally find that it is impossible. The only way to fix this is to change the firmware inside the TopGun.

Now, we have planed to release a new version of TopGun, the EMS TopGun II. It would support Vista (32bit) and would has other new functions.

We would post more EMS TopGun II related information on our website within this month. Please visit our website for details.

Thank you. 

**********

Hope they get a new "2008 Hong Kong Awards for Industries: Consumer Product Design Award"  for this one too.

[Xiaou2]

Ive looked over their site and do not see this information. 
Link Please.

[wbassett]

I'm like Agent Mulder... I want to believe....

[Xiaou2]

Ahh, its in the Forum.

[wbassett]

Well buying one off the net for a high price... fighting to get it to work even reasonably... Like Mulder, yeah I 'want to believe' this is the best Mame gun out there! 

It does work, but has issues.  I'm not going to say something is perfect when it isn't... but I do want to believe that they will fix this, but right now... it's okay but not what I expected it to be. 

Now that I finally got it to work (after fixing a broken wire in the IR unit myself) I hope it lasts... I've read many people report guns broke within a few months- just from casual use.

The gun itself is a PS2 guncon style that was converted... look it up, this isn't an original design.  The electronics seem okay but the drivers suck, at least up until now but I haven't tried the new drivers yet, I just got the thing to work!  I'm half afraid to uninstall what works to try a company driver when the original company driver didn't work at all.  The recoil... it's worthless, but I don't fault hkems totally, like I said this is a mod of another gun and the recoil on that one for the PS2 probably sucked too.

If this was $20 I would blow it off, but at $40-60 per gun, this should have worked out of the box, with good instructions, drivers that worked...  I am not impressed and by saying they 'finally' came out with a driver that works... well I am still cynical.  I paid and expected a product out of the box to work.  It was advertised as the 'best' but is marginal at 'best'.

If anyone thinks I am too harsh... equate this to buying a car... or even a TV, or anything else- an AV receiver, a BD player... or to be closer to the price, if you bought a joystick and it didn't work what would you do?  You'd take it back for a refund and get something that worked out of the box.

If you had to jump through hoops like this after a purchase when it was said to be 'revolutionary and the best' and then it flat out wouldn't work without fixing it yourself and then using a driver a private individual wrote... how many would still say it is 'the best'?  It's a beta gun at best.  The Guncon3 blows it away, but granted the GC3 doesn't have PC drivers.  The point is should PC and MAME just 'settle' for 'acceptable'?

I bought my gun before finding this site.  The UTube and online reviews made it look like it was the cat's meow...  Yes out of the box it has worked for some, but for many it has not been a plug and play experience.   I got mine to work (as stated, after fixing a hardware problem myself) but I read about many that have said their gun just 'quit' after a couple of months... that's not a good track record and I constantly wonder when mine will break, and just from normal use.

I'm not cheap and I earn a good buck... but I still don't like wasting money.  If hkems has a better product, they owe us a rebate- or a discount on their new gun, that's my opinion.

Right now they have the only 'PC' gun and one that works with LCD and CRT, but if any competition comes along with a better quality and perfected product for he same price or lower,   the EMS LCD TopGun will just be a blip in the arcade radar.  They have something unique, but they really need to do right by everyone that bought a beta gun and make this right or this is a passing fancy and one shot wonder.   It might be the 'gun that could have been'.  Let's hope it's the gun that sets the standard for all PC and MAME guns. 

Right now, as you can tell, I am not totally impressed.  Some may not like or agree with my comments, but they are honest and accurate.  This gun works for some but not all, and does have some major problems.  It works, but is far from perfect.  I'd rate it two stars out of five, but it could have been a five out of five if the company put just a little more effort into it.

[Lilwolf]

I understand the complaints... but they where right, they where the best on the market then (and now).  I have two and had very high hopes...  I think they are better for games with guns mounted on analog joystick games (T2, ect).  Because others really need pixel perfect resolution to play well... I never got police trainer to work with these guns.

Act Labs better?  Not really, they are better in different ways, and suck in so many others... crt only, resolution based, need to be calibrated ALL the time, white flashes, random misses in the bottom right corner....  When they work, they work really well...  But for those other moments...

Right now, I'm wondering if a wiimote connected would be better... last I checked the pc drivers, linux version had the light gun support, but not PC... that was a year ago so it probably is working now....

As for testing the new drivers, I would consider doing it on another pc first...

[wbassett]

I understand the complaints... but they where right, they where the best on the market then (and now).  I have two and had very high hopes...  I think they are better for games with guns mounted on analog joystick games (T2, ect).  Because others really need pixel perfect resolution to play well... I never got police trainer to work with these guns.

Act Labs better?  Not really, they are better in different ways, and suck in so many others... crt only, resolution based, need to be calibrated ALL the time, white flashes, random misses in the bottom right corner....  When they work, they work really well...  But for those other moments...

Right now, I'm wondering if a wiimote connected would be better... last I checked the pc drivers, linux version had the light gun support, but not PC... that was a year ago so it probably is working now....

As for testing the new drivers, I would consider doing it on another pc first...

Lilwolf, sorry about my tone.  I really do like the look and feel of the gun but the performance (at least with my current drivers) is far from what I expected.  As far as being the 'best on the market', that's pretty easy when you're the only one!

I was able to get Police Trainer to work with mine, but accuracy isn't the best.  The gun works great for what I call 'blob shooting'...  that's when you play a game where you only have to hit the bad guy or monster anywhere on its body for a 'kill'.  For precision, at least in my case, the further from the center of the screen the target is, the more inaccurate the gun is.

The only real viable alternative for someone using a PC and PC monitor is ActLabs and I have seen a gun made in China that plugs into the VGA connector and USB port, but as far as I know that gun isn't sold in the US so it's not even an option.

The Wii mote does look interesting and there is some work being done in that area, but I doubt we'll ever see a commercial version that a person can just walk into a store and buy and just hook up to their PC right out of the box.  That is really what I was expecting with the TopGun... just plug it in, install a driver, calibrate and start playing within a couple of minutes.   It took me a couple of weeks to get mine to work and that really isn't acceptable.

The very first thing was a poor instruction manual that wasn't written that well, and the CD that came with the gun wasn't very clear as to what drivers were for what.  It looks like the company put drivers for all their products on the disc and setup wasn't totally intuitive.  I work on computers and servers for a living so I'd like to think I know my way around them some, and this was a royal pain to get working.

I also have Time Crisis 4 and it came with that big ugly orange GunCon3 gun.  The GC3 looks horrible, especially compared to the TopGun, and the side handle controller just doesn't feel natural.  Why they didn't mount it under the gun like a RIS style grip is beyond me, but... it works flawlessly and is very accurate on my 55" HDTV.  Sadly it only works on the PS3. 

If the TopGun was as easy and accurate as my GC3, I'd say the gun would be perfect.  If the company does come out with a new version, better firmware and drivers... I'll be ecstatic!  Based on my current personal experience though, I'm not going to hold my breath.

I do have a new PC I just got and setup to replace my current MAME PC and I will use the newest company drivers on that system.  I'm hoping they are right and they finally got their drivers working.  I really want to like this gun, but right now it's not blowing my socks off.

[MKChamp]

Just a FYI on the new drivers (released May 9)....
I installed them just a couple of days ago and must say...they are great. I use to not like playing games like deer hunter or police trainer because the more off center you aimed the gun, the more off it was. After installing the new driver and then using their panel to fine tune the edges, accuracy was increased tremendously. I would venture to say that the new driver has brought a renewed interest in all my gun games now.
I have 2 EMS guns installed and 'so far' I haven't seen ANY issues....
Also, before I purchased the two EMS guns (when they first came out), I had 2 act-lab guns. So, I can give a comparison based on personal experience. The EMS guns are the best guns for MAME at this time (IMO). The main reason is the real time tracking. Forget T2 or Rev X with act-labs. Carnevil is fine with act-labs until you pick up the machine gun or flame thrower...

As far as EMS documentation...it is obvious English isn't their native language. Maybe it would help for them to contract a guy name Bob or Frank to help them in that category.

[Xiaou2]

wbassett,

  You are way too hard on them.

  Ive owned both Act Labs guns and they are both  Steaming Dog Piles!

 The accuracy is Wretched!  Getting every Nth shot fired several inches away from
where I pointed!   That was with perfect calibrations, recalibrations...etc.    The things
are garbage.

 The feel aweful on the hands to hold.  The trigger button broke on mine after very short time (and it feels horrible too).     The reload button is on the wrong side for me...
and is useless.   

 AND,  furthermore, if you looked at  Act Labs forum back in the day... You would
see that they have a bad reputation for customer satisfaction and service.   They
designed a highly flawed racing wheel and pedal set... which constantly breaks
the springs they try to send put as a 'fix'.   As well as many other issues.

 Their phone support techs are rude and dont offer much help.   Basically, they tell
you that you are screwed,   and that there is nothing you can do about it.

 
 On the other hand... my  LCD Topguns are always within a cm or less of where I aim.
They never missfire at a random location like the Crap Labs guns.

 The guns are comfortable, and have Dual handed reload buttons - AND - the
buttons they use for this are better and easier to press.

 To date - there is NO other PC gun that matches or exceeds their accuracy and
quality.


 And, the price for them was Dirt cheap.    I think $20 a gun.    VS the +$60  CrapLabs
gun the was completely unusable.

 
 If Anyone is going to make a  "Perfect"  gun for PC, then its most probable that its
EMS.   Certainly not ACTLABS,  Happs,  nor anyone else that makes mame devices.

[wbassett]

wbassett,

  You are way too hard on them.

Am I?  Seriously... when a person buys something they expect it to work and up until now the old drivers were hit or miss and hardware malfunctions for even casual use is reported much more than it should be.  Even the forum on hkems has pages of people having problems.

Now, I am hearing the new drivers work well and I will be testing them myself very soon.  I really do hope they work as well as advertised.  It still doesn't change the fact that the gun as originally presented had some major problems with it.  The fact the company even told people to use Smog's drivers was a tell tale sign that this was a beta unit and the company itself didn't have a finalized driver created when the gun went public. 

  Ive owned both Act Labs guns and they are both  Steaming Dog Piles!

 The accuracy is Wretched!  Getting every Nth shot fired several inches away from
where I pointed!   That was with perfect calibrations, recalibrations...etc.    The things
are garbage.

That may be true, I will be honest and say I don't have an Act Labs gun, but I have read just as many reviews that raved about the Act Labs guns as I have that raved about the TopGun.  Based on that, I would be skeptical about ActLabs too, but no less critical about the TopGun just because of that.  There is no denying that there were major driver issues with the TopGun, and people have reported hardware failures with nothing more than casual use.  Myself, I had a hardware issue right out of the box which just complicated the setup of the gun.  Conversely as I have mention several times, the GC3 literally setup in a couple of minutes and I was playing and it was accurate across the entire screen of my 55" HDTV.  That is what I expected and should have experienced with the TopGun too if it really was a polished and finalized product.  So no, I don't think I have been too hard on it.  By the way, with my current drivers, the accuracy of my TopGun is 'Wretched', and that was after calibrating and recalibrating many times.

 The feel awful on the hands to hold.  The trigger button broke on mine after very short time (and it feels horrible too).     The reload button is on the wrong side for me...
and is useless. 

Again I don't know about the ActLabs guns, but thanks for the heads up because I seriously was considering dropping $200 on a dual gun setup.

I have complimented the GC3 many times, but I have also said the design and look is awful.  The TopGun really does look nice and is a cool gun compared to the GC3, but right now it just doesn't come close to the GC3 as far as performance and accuracy.  When I swap computers and try the newest EMS drivers, hopefully I will be very happy, but I still must say... if they work, that's what I and everyone else should have gotten already.  Shipping something and telling people to use a driver that was written by a private person on a forum because the company drivers would not work is not acceptable.  That's not how a business should be run.  The product should be fully developed and tested and any bugs worked out before going to market.  Am I wrong here?  Where else (besides maybe MicroSoft ) is this a common practice?

 AND,  furthermore, if you looked at  Act Labs forum back in the day... You would
see that they have a bad reputation for customer satisfaction and service.   They
designed a highly flawed racing wheel and pedal set... which constantly breaks
the springs they try to send put as a 'fix'.   As well as many other issues.

Okay, again, I don't have an ActLabs gun, but I do have a Guncon.  Let's say we agree that ActLabs sucks... does that give license and an okay for other companies to say 'Well look at company X... they suck too'?  No.  Consumer money was spent.  I myself received a broken unit that I had to fix myself, and then after that I had to still play with different drivers and configurations to get the gun to work.  Whether ActLabs is the same or not really doesn't matter because I didn't buy an ActLabs gun, I bought an EMS TopGun. 

Again, let's compare things to the GC3.  Out of the box to playing was literally less than three minutes and that included positioning the LED sensors.  Honestly, that's really what I expected from the TopGun too.  Instead it took me almost three weeks to trouble shoot and get my TopGun to work, and with the drivers I have (the new drivers were not out when I installed) it is erratic and only accurate in the very center of the screen on my 21" monitor.

I'll say this though, if the new drivers work and as well as some are reporting, then I will be totally happy with the gun and also publicly say so just as publicly as I have stated the old drivers and packaging was not up to expectations.

 Their phone support techs are rude and dont offer much help.   Basically, they tell
you that you are screwed,   and that there is nothing you can do about it.

Tech support from EMS is better?  Basically they tell people to 'recalibrate', and if that doesn't resolve the problem they were telling people to install Smog's drivers.  With shipping I paid $60 for my gun and yes, I actually expected it to work right out of the box and with the company drivers.  I don't think that was too much to ask or expect.

 
 On the other hand... my  LCD Topguns are always within a cm or less of where I aim.
They never missfire at a random location like the Crap Labs guns.

You are one of the lucky ones then and I am honestly happy for you. 

 The guns are comfortable, and have Dual handed reload buttons - AND - the
buttons they use for this are better and easier to press.

That I will give them Kudos on.  Once I got mine working, the buttons are very easy to configure and you can assign a button for a coin drop and a game restart on most games.  I really like the look and layout.  That never was an issue and actually was one of the aspects that attracted me to the gun in the first place.

This gun has a lot of potential. To say there were no issues with it prior to the most recent drivers though is not a very accurate statement.

Even with the driver issues and setup problems pushed aside, there are some mechanical problems with the gun, at least with mine.  When using recoil, the slide would consistently hit the hammer D pad.  It didn't seem to affect game play, but it was still a design tolerance issue that should have been looked at.

Overall the gun itself looks good and feels good to hold.  I have fired many weapons when I was in the military, from M60's to Colt .45's to the Beretta 92, which is what the TopGun is modeled after.  It looks and feels really good, I will give it that with no complaints at all.  The recoil is a joke though and a novelty at best and most people end up disabling it after a very short period.  Still it looks and feels good in your hand.  That alone though doesn't make it perfect.  If the new drivers work, I will be very happy, but still feel I should have had that quality of performance when I bought my gun.

This thing as been out for a couple of years now.  It really isn't too much to ask or expect for the company to have ironed out any issues with the gun long before now.  That really is all I am complaining about.

 To date - there is NO other PC gun that matches or exceeds their accuracy and
quality.

That could very well be true.  I bought a TopGun though and as of now it really is not very accurate.  Maybe with the new drivers it will be better, but as I bought mine it definitely has some issues.  My point has always been that for a commercial product I was expecting something to work and work well right out of the box and with company drivers.


 And, the price for them was Dirt cheap.    I think $20 a gun.    VS the +$60  CrapLabs
gun the was completely unusable.

Well I haven't seen a TopGun for $20.  $34.99 plus shipping is the cheapest I have seen them.  To be fair, I also haven't seen an ActLabs for $60, more like $90.  Calling it a 'CrapLabs' does seem a bit biased though and just as hard on them as you said I was on the TopGun.

 
 If Anyone is going to make a  "Perfect"  gun for PC, then its most probable that its
EMS.   Certainly not ACTLABS,  Happs,  nor anyone else that makes mame devices.

I will contend that you sound a bit biased just as you feel I am.  I can't speak for ActLabs, but do feel any gun should be as easy to setup and as accurate as my GunCon3.

EMS has the distinction of really being the only PC gun that will work with CRT or any screen technology, but if another company comes along and has a more refined product, then there will be some actual competition and EMS may not fare as well if they are not the only one on the block.  Competition can be good, and this is one case where I would fully agree with that.  Prices would come down and quality would go up.

As I said before, if someone were to buy a joystick or spinner and it didn't work or required a major effort to configure it and set it up to get it working... they probably would return it and buy a product from a different company.  EMS really is the only option for LCD users, and with CRT it's ActLabs as the main competition.  I have read just as many stellar reviews for ActLabs as I have for the TopGun.  Based on your comments (albeit some seemed to be extremely biased though) I would also be equally leery and skeptical on the ActLabs guns.  Also based on their prices, they aren't a very attractive alternative else I would already have at least one of them.

Right now I kinda feel like the saying 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me'.  I really do feel a bit duped by the product claims and reviews of the TopGun, and based on that I also don't feel like ending up with the 'shame on me' feeling of buying an ActLab gun and having an equally bad experience.

So maybe I am hard on EMS, but they are a commercial company selling a product.  The product really should have been fully functional and with company drivers the minute they started selling the guns.  I really can not understand defending them when there really have been so many problems and not just me as the only person that has complained.

If these really were the ultimate PC mame gun, then I really doubt there would be so much interest in getting the Wii mote working as a light gun.

This really isn't a personal thing, it is a company problem.  They may have finally fixed things, but they never should have sold the guns in the first place knowing their own drivers and software wasn't fully working properly.  If that is being too hard on someone, then yes I am being hard on them.  When I spend my money on something I really do expect it to work and that is all I am saying and was asking for. 

I will say this though, even if the new drivers work and work well... I will want to use my gun for extended periods of time and really give it a workout to see if it holds up or breaks like some people have complained about before buying a second gun for a two shooter setup. 

BTW... Xiaou2, do you work for hkems or something?  You really came off sounding pretty bad and biased towards ActLabs.  I have no personal affiliation with either company and if I bought and ActLabs gun and had as much trouble with it I would complain about it too. 

[wbassett]

Just a FYI on the new drivers (released May 9)....
I installed them just a couple of days ago and must say...they are great. I use to not like playing games like deer hunter or police trainer because the more off center you aimed the gun, the more off it was. After installing the new driver and then using their panel to fine tune the edges, accuracy was increased tremendously. I would venture to say that the new driver has brought a renewed interest in all my gun games now.
I have 2 EMS guns installed and 'so far' I haven't seen ANY issues....
Also, before I purchased the two EMS guns (when they first came out), I had 2 act-lab guns. So, I can give a comparison based on personal experience. The EMS guns are the best guns for MAME at this time (IMO). The main reason is the real time tracking. Forget T2 or Rev X with act-labs. Carnevil is fine with act-labs until you pick up the machine gun or flame thrower...

As far as EMS documentation...it is obvious English isn't their native language. Maybe it would help for them to contract a guy name Bob or Frank to help them in that category.

That really is good news.  I like what you said about fine tuning at the screen edges too, that is definitely a must.

I do understand about documentation and English not being their native language, but still they could have made a little bit of a better effort.  Like you said, hire someone to translate and write some docs.

I should have my new PC installed in my cab by next weekend, and at that time I will try the new drivers.

[Xiaou2]

BTW... Xiaou2, do you work for hkems or something?  You really came off sounding pretty bad and biased towards ActLabs.  I have no personal affiliation with either company and if I bought and ActLabs gun and had as much trouble with it I would complain about it too.



 No, I do not work for them.

 There are only 2 sources for PC guns.    Act Labs  &  EMS.    ActLabs put out a garbage gun
that I bought.   If you think you have something to complain about - try using the Act labs
gun!    I mistakenly bought their 2nd gun... thinking it would be better and more accurate.
WRONG.   

 Then looking over their site.. and seeing all the other problems they have with their products...
and their poor customer service... its simply hard to believe they are still in business.
 
 Their company truly does not care.


 However... EMS  does care.   They made a GOOD gun.   The BEST gun EVER made for PC.
While its not perfect... they show that they are committed to making an improved model.   They
also work with people to figure out how to improve the software, and work with people to
get emulator compatibility.   Not many big companies go this far.

 

 Finally,  nobody is going to get a wimote to work as a "good"  lightgun period.   It would also be
expensive, awkward..etc.

[akcrash]

 Finally,  nobody is going to get a wimote to work as a "good"  lightgun period.   It would also be
expensive, awkward..etc.

Expensive? 30 bucks a wiimote, available anywhere, almost; plus 15 bucks for the bluetooth adapter. Thats damned cheaper then the EMS guns. Awkward? How so, have you used one, there are several 'shells' out for them that are cheap and actually quit comfortable to use. Please share your reasons for bashing the wiimote.

I got one to work in mame with glove pie, there are short comings, but if we ever get an actual driver for them, or even a library support built in mame, they will be way better then what is out now. And the single sensor bar is easier to conceal in a cab, and you dont have to stand 8 feet away to use the thing.

[aljupy]

As I said other time:

Do not tell me....you play with the Wiimote with the cursor activated 

¿You call it a Lightgun game? I call it cheat a lightgun game


The day that the WIIMOTE Drivers will be created for REAL LightGun purpose, I will defend it as a Lightgun.

At this moment, The Wiimote driver needs:
1) Calibration Stuff. (Shoot the target or a Software edge´s calibration to fine-tune)

2) An option to hide the cursor would be nice too.

The Wiimote as lightgun would be possible, but Glovepie author should add it.

HKEMS  ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wbassett]

ak I think this is pretty much a one sided debate, nothing is going to be as good as the TopGun to Xiaou2.  That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion.

If the new drivers work as well as people are reporting they do, then I'll be happy too but it still does not change my opinion that we have a commercial company that after several years finally got it right.  My point is you don't go to market like that and this should have been fixed a long long time ago. 

They still have a problem with Vista and if reading their forum and time line on how long it took to come to the conclusion they cannot support Vista with the current hardware, don't look for any new hardware anytime soon... or expect buggy drivers just like we've had to deal with for the past couple of years.

Again I want to say and emphasize there is a lot I like about the gun and I think it has a lot of potential but I also have the opinion that the company has some problems resolving complaints.

One of the biggest things I dislike about this setup are those ugly LED sensors.  It's not even them as much as it is the cords.  If I do go with this as a permanent solution, I'll most likely do a redesign on the LEDs so it is more integrated and doesn't look like something stuck to the front of my cab.

At least I tried to state my issues in a clear and consice manner and even pointed out pros and the gun's strongest points.  I never once resorted to name calling, that to me is a sign the debate doesn't have much to stand on.

I spent some more time reading through sites and forums on both ActLabs and EMS's sites, as well as more reviews.  It's pretty obvious that people have had problems with ActLab guns too, but I wouldn't say EMS is anywhere near 100% perfection or customer satisfaction either.

The problem as I see it is we are a very small niche market and there just isn't enough market or money to entice companies to make PC light guns.  If I were using a TV then it would open the door to a lot of GunCon2 guns that are out there, but I have the desire to be able to play some computer games on my cab from time to time too.

The Wii mote is probably the most viable alternative, and from what I have read the GunCon 3 uses Wii technology... but again it is a PS3 exclusive item.  It does work though and seems to work well too.

ActLabs dabbled with similar technology too, but ultimately dropped that line.  They had the ACT LABS Senigital Arcade Gun, which was totally plug and play and stated to work on any display technology, but it just wasn't as accurate as the other guns they were selling.  You can still get them for $20, and I may pick one up just to check it out... but if it were $40 or $60... nope, too much to pay for something just to 'check out' when I already know it was an abandoned technology.

Someone will come up with a rival gun that works with a PC and CRT/LCD technology, just as EMS will have no choice but to figure out the Vista problem and soon.  Eventually Vista will replace XP, and LCD is already replacing CRT technology.  The arcade purists will still go with arcade crt monitors and CRT based guns and use whatever OS works, but some people want to use Vista and LCD... so there is a market, but like I said a very small one.  Competition is good though and I wish we had more than basically two 'players' in the PC market, and pretty much only one for the non-CRT market. 

[TPB]

I think this is pretty much a one sided debate, nothing is going to be as good as the TopGun to Xiaou2. ...

I never once resorted to name calling, that to me is a sign the debate doesn't have much to stand on.

... still implying that Xiaou2's opinion is less worthy than your own, due to his supposed "bias" ?

wbasset, you're entitled to trash the Top guns if you like, and I guess I'd feel the same way if I purchased a gun that need repairing from the outset due to a broken wire ... that must have really sucked.   

But you appear to be jumping on a "moral high horse", proffering your opinion as somehow more worthy than that of Xiaou2.

Where did he resort to name calling ?

The only thing he mentioned was :

wbassett,

You are way too hard on them.

That's hardly "name calling", unless you're hyper-sensitive.

On the other hand, you then you proceeded to belittle his opinion by suggesting some sort of bias on his behalf ... which is akin to name calling :

BTW... Xiaou2, do you work for hkems or something?  You really came off sounding pretty bad and biased towards ActLabs.  I have no personal affiliation with either company ...

wbasset, both your opinion AND that of Xiaou2 are worthy.   

There doesn't have to be a "winning opinion".

If Xiaou2's happy with his Topguns, allow him the liberty to state that.  Given he has first-hand experience with both the Topguns AND the Act Labs guns, his opinion is well grounded.

If you guys want to continue this stoush, how about taking it to another time, and another place :   

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80979.0

[wbassett]

I think this is pretty much a one sided debate, nothing is going to be as good as the TopGun to Xiaou2. ...

I never once resorted to name calling, that to me is a sign the debate doesn't have much to stand on.

... still implying that Xiaou2's opinion is less worthy than your own, due to his supposed "bias" ?

wbasset, you're entitled to trash the Top guns if you like, and I guess I'd feel the same way if I purchased a gun that need repairing from the outset due to a broken wire ... that must have really sucked.   

But you appear to be jumping on a "moral high horse", proffering your opinion as somehow more worthy than that of Xiaou2.

Where did he resort to name calling ?


The only thing he mentioned was :

wbassett,

You are way too hard on them.

That's hardly "name calling", unless you're hyper-sensitive.

On the other hand, you then you proceeded to belittle his opinion by suggesting some sort of bias on his behalf ... which is akin to name calling :

BTW... Xiaou2, do you work for hkems or something?  You really came off sounding pretty bad and biased towards ActLabs.  I have no personal affiliation with either company ...

wbasset, both your opinion AND that of Xiaou2 are worthy.   

There doesn't have to be a "winning opinion".

If Xiaou2's happy with his Topguns, allow him the liberty to state that.  Given he has first-hand experience with both the Topguns AND the Act Labs guns, his opinion is well grounded.

If you guys want to continue this stoush, how about taking it to another time, and another place :   

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80979.0

It wasn't personal name calling towards me, it was the 'CrapLabs' comments I was refering to.

I stated several times the strong points of the TopGun and cited a comparison to another similar gun that I own that uses LED sensor bars and similar technology.

Anyway, your comments are duly noted and I won't say any more on this topic and fuel any fires.

[TPB]

It wasn't personal name calling towards me, it was the 'CrapLabs' comments I was refering to.

Oh, OK, now I see where you were coming from.

wbasset, please report how you go, once you install the new Topgun driver on your new PC.   

Fingers crossed it'll work well ... otherwise you'll be back to doing this ...