Calling all Donkey Kong Masters!

[djruden]

To go back to barrel control- PhantonDJ in the Twin Galaxies forums posted a great article he grabbed from:
http://donhodges.com/Controlling_the_barrels_in_Donkey_Kong.htm

It basically disects the Assembler code that is written and explains pretty indepthly exacly when and why a barrel will go down a ladder and the probability you have at controlling the action. 

It's a pretty quick read and pretty interesting.  I figured you guys would like to see it considering we've been on this topic a while 

DJ

[TheShanMan]

GREAT post. Thanks djruden! I posted a comment there suggesting that a similar analysis of wild barrels (in regard to predicting their path and/or controlling their path) would also be awesome.

[freon1200]

man i read that, it was interesting, tho a lot of it didnt make sense as i dont know ANY programming stuff. tho if you understand that....i wish i could find the link i had. jeffs romhack had a page telling about how the randomization for the hammer smashes (300, 500, 800) worked. and it can be figured out. i heard an interview with billy mitchel claiming that he played a perfect game of 800 pt hammer smashes. i was experimenting a lot with this. i always hit the jump button when smashing barrels, and often pull back on the joystick. it seems to give me more 800's tho its purely experimental. and maybe my imagination.i still do have bad games that seem to opnly give me 300's. also i try pushing the start button at different times after inserting coins. theres a few things that seem to make a difference for me. tho like i said it may just be my imagination.

try different things and if you get an 800 try it again a few times. if it doesnt help. try other things. i also noticed i get 800's more often when the timer ends in 700-900 second range. thinking maybe like super mario on nes with the fireworks after grabbing the flag

[TheShanMan]

Interesting! Please do post that link if you can find it. It didn't occur to me that you could control hammer points. I don't think I care enough to spend a lot of time experimenting right now, but if I could read an analysis of the machine code I'd love to put the tips into practice!

[freon1200]

im looking for that hammer smash page right now. i stumbled upon this little 1 page thread. its interesting. read the first post. something i never noticed.
http://www.twingalaxies.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11375

[freon1200]

ok here it is. this page has a lot of interesting coding info on donkey kong. at the VERY bottom of the page is a link to the barrel smash coding

http://www.jeffsromhack.com/products/donkeykong_tech.htm

[djruden]

That site is awesome for some nitty gritty DK info!  I've been playing a game or two now each day when I get off work and still haven't upped my score but I'm finding sometimes I can get a really frustrating Rivet stage.

Does anyone have a good strategy?  I use something similar to the DK book diagram posted very early in this thread -- run up the left side getting the rivets and get the hammer one last so I can run across and take out some foxfires - hopefully trapping them on the left now.  Occasionally they do not cooperate and will avoid that level and I can only get 1 or two.  Depending where the fires are now, I either get the rivets on the top or bottom.  It seems like occasionally they get smart tho and block all my paths - even going so far as to just stop above the ladders and block them..

It doesn't always happen like this, and it seems if I can take off right away on my pattern I can usually get around most of it.  How about you?

[freon1200]

yeah, speed is the key. also dont turn and run till they are CLOSE. they often get afraid when you near and retreat. if they stop above the ladder, just shake the control left and right and randomize it. it will eventually cause them to move. also if you can do the backwards jump. jump over the rivet to the right. then back jump. sometimes i do this 3 or 4 times. it often makes them go to the right. you can get the top right rivets first if you want. just on levels 1 thru 3 its best to get the top last. that way you can leech off of donkey kong. also you can jump off of every level and bonce off the wall and back. its good for escaping. the top ledge you have to be halfway off before doing this or youll die. experiment.

[djruden]

I knew about the inviso wall jump, that is always my last resort if I get stuck in a corner.  I usually try to avoid the foxfires at all costs tho as they are such a pain.  Jumping them never seems to pan out and they always turn mid jump and get me so running away is usually my option of choice.  They are just so hard to predict and impossible to control, at least with my experience. 

[TheShanMan]

Hey guys! Getting kinda quiet! Any new high scores or anything? I played a little again this weekend and got 2 upper 200k scores. I no longer think my skills have improved due to playing infinite lives all the way to the kill screen; I know they have. Situations where I would say "oh man, I got lucky there!" seem to happen so much more often that it occurred to me that it's no longer luck - it's being more skillful at handling difficult situations.

How about some of you other 200k+ guys post your top 5 scores in your signature the way I decided to? I figured that is a more interesting thing to keep up on than just what your top score is. For instance, my 399k score might lead people to believe that 300k scores are more common for me than they really are. But they will become common soon! I played 4 games this weekend and 3 of them ended with scores of 289k, 206k, and 279k. So while just a few weeks ago a 200k score was rare, now it's the norm. That means I should be getting 300k scores more often and I'm hoping 500k will not be too far off!

[Paul Olson]

I played through to the kill screen yesterday, and I think it will really help my game. By the time I got to around level 15, I was pulling off some pretty tough barrel jumps. I was playing 2 player with my 12 year old nephew, and he made it to the 3rd elevators. A couple of days ago he couldn't get past the 1st screen, now he usually gets to the 3rd screen or better on a regular game.

I think I died more on the pie factory levels than anywhere else, so I really need to work on some strategy there.

I will start posting my scores soon. I haven't gone past 100k in a while though. I am experimenting a lot with barrel control.

How do you guys get time to play so much. I think I almost wore out my pause button  getting to the kill screen. Constant interuptions all day long, including a 250 mile road trip. It seems like as soon as I start playing, everyone I have ever met needs me to do something. 

[TheShanMan]

Cool! I don't generally play during the week any more because games usually take too long now (generally 30 minutes plus). On the weekends I usually try to sneak up when the family is watching a movie or playing outside or something.

Here's my approach to pie factory... first make all fireballs come out on the left side by staying left of center (time it so that you move right of center when the last fireball comes out). Then hopefully you can make it all the way up the right side of the screen to the top without any fireball conflict.

If not, hopefully you can at least make it to the girder above the conveyor belt with only 1 fireball on the upper conveyor belt. I then try to coax  the fireball down the leftmost ladder by pressing down on my joystick when he's near that ladder. When he goes down, shoot up to the top.

If you can't even make it above the conveyor belt without conflict, then be prepared to go back down to the bottom girder, and look for an opportunity to go up.

I usually avoid the hammers unless I'm in too much danger. Since the fireballs come out on the same side that you're on, killing fireballs usually doesn't help beyond getting you out of immediate danger.

Once you're to the point of waiting for an opportunity to go up the ladder to the topmost girder (i.e. finish the level), you need to know that fireballs NEVER come back down the ladder once they're up there, so you can safely wait on the moving part of the ladder (just don't get burned from below!). Also, they like to stay somewhat close to the ladder, making it hard to find opportunities to go up. If there's only one fireball near the ladder, no problem. If there are 2, you can probably find a good opportunity. If there are 3 or more near that ladder, you probably need to go down and work your way to the ladder on the opposite side of the screen. The fireballs will generally not switch sides, so those 3 or more will probably remain on that side, giving you more of an opportunity to get up on the opposite side.

Let me know if that helps you! I think that pretty thoroughly covers my strategy. Anyone else want to chime in with something I'm forgetting?

[Lutus]

If a fireball is guarding the top and won't let you up, I usually get almost to the top of the ladder and keep pushing the joystick away (left or right) toward KONG.  Almost trying to "push" the fireballs away from me.

Works most of the time.  Or maybe it is a mind game. 

[jeffsgames]

I got 298,200 this last week.  I lost two guys on one pie level, and I had to get past an elevator level to get 300K.  Pressure got to me and I mis-timed the springs.   

You guys are doing great!  Personally my goal is to beat the 568,400 on TG to pass Brian Kuh.

[freon1200]

on the conveyers, they almost always seem to go to the ri
+ght (fireballs) so even if there are a lot on the left side (top) they will still go to the right. i always aim for the right top. but if i cant and get an opening. i ALWAYS go to the left if possible. theres almost always an opening there.

[TheShanMan]

Good tip, freon. I think you're right on that one.

BTW, nice to see I'd make #4 on your high score table. I have my work cut out for me to move up the list though!

[freon1200]

thx TheShanMan
i need to start playing more. i played for a few minutes today and lost 2 guys on level 4 mudpies.(right after typing in the mudpie tip too) time was about 0 seconds left and had a flame behind me on the ladder, and a flame above me(top) then the second guy, i dont remember how, died. i just quit lol.

[Paul Olson]

I enjoy trying to improve my DK score, but not nearly as much as teaching the game to someone else. When my nephew got here last week, he could not pass the first board. He was frustrated, but he finally started listening and watching what I was doing. Today before I drove him to the airport, we had a chance to play 1 more game. He scored 45,200! Not bad for a 12 year old who has played the game for less than a week. 

[fatfingers]

I enjoy trying to improve my DK score, but not nearly as much as teaching the game to someone else. When my nephew got here last week, he could not pass the first board. He was frustrated, but he finally started listening and watching what I was doing. Today before I drove him to the airport, we had a chance to play 1 more game. He scored 45,200! Not bad for a 12 year old who has played the game for less than a week. 

 

[freon1200]

nice!!!
thats awsome pcolson

[TheShanMan]

I keep wondering what the pattern of levels is, so finally looked it up and found this. Figured others would be interested:

Code: [Select]

The levels in Donkey Kong are arranged in a specific order.  All levels after
Level 05 are the same.  Use this key to determine the order of playing fields
within a level:

          G  = GIRDER; R  = RIVET; E  = ELEVATOR; PF = PIE FACTORY

             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | HEIGHT   | 25m | 50m | 75m | 100m | 125m | 150m |
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | LEVEL 01 |  G  |  R  |--------------------------|
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | LEVEL 02 |  G  |  E  |  R  |--------------------|
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | LEVEL 03 |  G  |  PF |  E  |   R  |-------------|
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | LEVEL 04 |  G  |  PF |  G  |   E  |   R  |------|
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+
             | LEVEL 05 |  G  |  PF |  G  |   E  |   G  |   R  |
             +----------+-----+-----+-----+------+------+------+

Also, one of these days I should tease out all the tips from this now massive thread and create a wiki page out of it.

[fatfingers]

 I am utterly amazed at the gaming skills of people here (and the patience)!  I've never been a great gamer, but OMG, I FINALLY passed 100,000 today.  102,300 to be exact.


And I know that's nothing to you big guns, but it's quite the achievement for me.  Even made it to level 6!
 

[TheShanMan]

That's great! It was only a few months ago (after I started this thread) that I got 100k for the first time.

[freon1200]

first time i hit 100,000 i was SOOOO nervouse i died within a few minutes. then 150,000. etc. whenever you get near a score you havent gotten before your nervs clamp up...hehe but after you get 100k a few times youll be calm, then start gettin nervouse around 200k. and the process goes on.  btw  fatfingers, nice on reachin 100k. welcome to the club!!! 

[fatfingers]

117,800 WOOT!

[Lutus]

careful fatfingers, sounds like you are starting to get hooked on high scores! 

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

I beat my personal record last night, and am sitting pretty on 124,300 as of 8/1 (I took camera phone pics because I don't have a freakin high score save kit installed yet!!!).  Before breaking 100g, my personal best was 98,400.

[shiftybill]

my strategy for the pie factory is

1. as soon as the level starts and mario appears wait half a second then jump straight up and as soon as you land run to the right, grab the item and climb up the ladder (this is just enough time so that all fireballs start on the left and so u just miss any pies that are coming on the conveyor (if any))
2. when u are on the conveyor belt do a quick jump to the right and up the next ladder (if fireballs are at the top of the ladder press left on the joystick a few times and they should move)
3. jump to the right side and up two ladders to the top

hope this helps

[Paul Olson]

OK guys, no more playing around in MAME for me. Today I played on an original cab for the first time in close to 20 years.

I finally own my own DK! Not bad for $150. It came with new side art and a cap kit. I installed the cap kit today, but the sideart will have to wait. you can see a hole in the back of the cab  . I saw it happen as I was pushing it into the truck, but by then it was too late. I am going to wait on the restore on this one. The fall semester is starting soon, and I already have a ton of projects to try to finish up before then. I need to replace a couple of buttons, then it will be time to try to catch up to you guys. 

[freon1200]

wow!!! pcolson
nice score 

where the heck did you find that fore $150 with a capkit and new sideart?!?!
they obviouslly knew the value if they had those things with it.
congratulations

[Paul Olson]

I got it from a new friend I buy my pinball parts from. I am doing some work on his DK3 so he can sell it; that helped drop the price a little. Now it turns out that my girlfriend likes the DK3.  I also got 4 untested boards in the deal. I can give back the boards and keep the DK3 for $200, so I am thinking about that now. It is kinda cool having her show interest in this hobby, so I may take the offer.

I have played probably 10 games on the DK and I still haven't passed 100k. 

It is a lot of fun playing on the real thing though. 

[Lutus]

well after a couple weeks of using the bottom hammer I am going back to try for the kill screen and skip the bottom hammer all together.

I was getting scores of 150 to 200 K when using the bottom hammer every time.  I think the reason I was struggling so much was that my rhythm in the game was getting thrown off when I would just stand there by the hammer.  I had much better success from just trying to press on through the levels.

Careful pcolson, when you plateau on this game, you are in for some stressful times!!!! 

[Paul Olson]

I used to get 100 - 120 almost every game. Since I started learning barrel control I've dropped about 30,000. It does get a little frustrating.

There are a lot of DK owners in this thread I think so I will ask here. I searched a lot for this last night and saw it mentioned, but never answered. When the game is powered on, I hear the starting sound then it cuts down to a really low volume and repeats indefinitely. Sounds like an echo. Has anyone found out what causes this?

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

OK guys, no more playing around in MAME for me. Today I played on an original cab for the first time in close to 20 years.

I finally own my own DK! Not bad for $150. It came with new side art and a cap kit. I installed the cap kit today, but the sideart will have to wait. you can see a hole in the back of the cab  . I saw it happen as I was pushing it into the truck, but by then it was too late. I am going to wait on the restore on this one. The fall semester is starting soon, and I already have a ton of projects to try to finish up before then. I need to replace a couple of buttons, then it will be time to try to catch up to you guys. 

Welcome to the "I paid $150 for a donkey kong cab in great condition" club!!

 

[freon1200]

pcolson
this may not fix your problem, but....
there are 2 volume controls. ones by the monitor on the board with about 5 knobs. then theres on on the actual pcb. not on the edge of the pcb, but on the board by the chips, etc. well there 2 pots(knobs) on the edge right by each other. dont touch those. then one solo about 3" or so down from the top of the board, and close to the center from both ends. try adjusting this. b\c there are different sounds going to each pot. the sounds being quiet are probably connected to the board pot. tho if this is the case. certain sounds would be louder like jumping barrels, etc.

[Paul Olson]

I'll check the pot. All of the game sounds are right. This is just a background noise that I don't think is supposed to be there.

[freon1200]

if you mean a humming, or slight buzz. thats common with ALL nintendo cabs with the  ez20 monitors. the audio amp is build in or close to the monitor circutry. and picks up from that.
if you mean it sounds like a bass like sound in the background all the time. or a rumbling. it means its time to do a capkit on the soundboard. this can be done without removing the monitor, monitor chassis or even discharging it. its the board behind the board with the 5 pots on it.
if your familiar with Bob Roberts, he sells the kit for about $4

http://homearcade.org/BBBB/

[Paul Olson]

It is like the jumping sound in a continuous loop, and at a very low volume compared to the game sounds.

[freon1200]

o, im not sure then. mine does that with dkjr sometimes, but only lasts about 2-3 seconds

[Jdurg]

Alrighty, a new high score for me!    49,500.  I finally got to the pie factory and beat it with no problems.  I'm just pissed because three times I lost a guy on the elevator stages because I didn't jump at the right spot off of the second elevator and plummetted to my death.  Still, I'm moving on up now! 

I still need to work on barrell control, however, since I always seem to lose too many lives on the first couple barrell stages.  The rivets stage is my best one thus far with maybe two lives lost TOTAL while I've been playing. 


Edit:  I guess I short changed myself as my high was actually 49,500.