Calling all Donkey Kong Masters!

[Lutus]

Have you seen King of Kong and looked at the extras with the side by side gameplay footage?

Basically, on the girder stages, Kong is on the top level.  Play the level like normal and then when you have only the top right girder left to finish the level, stand by Kong's foot and jump.  When in midair press right on the joystick.  This will give you a 100 points.  Now just continue to do this until time reaches 000 then jump the last girder.

Only press right while in midair.  If you are on the ground, do not press it or you will jump over the final girder and end the level prematurely.  You can also press left in midair, but why chance jumping into Kong?



-Jump
-immediately press right
-release right before landing

rinse, repeat



After the third girder stage do not even worry about this trick.  The timer moves to fast to make it worth your while.

[massive88]

OK, I'll try that.  I usually race up for each level and skip hammers, etc.

What's this "jump at the foot business"?

Watch at 1:07

[Spyridon]

When in midair press right on the joystick. 

I've only done this twice while playing, but I never pushed right on the joystick.  Just jumped straight up and got the points.

[Spyridon]

When in midair press right on the joystick. 

I've only done this twice while playing, but I never pushed right on the joystick.  Just jumped straight up and got the points.

I just watched the vidoe a few posts ago.  They are much further away from Kong than I was.  I guess you can be a little farther away if you push right on the joystick.  That's a better way, as getting as close as I was is dangerouse.  A few times I hit Kong and died.

[fatfingers]

Haha!  That's so sick and wrong!  I love it! 

King of Kong is on my NetFlicks list, but hasn't arrived yet.

Thanks for the tip!

[CrazyKongFan]

You don't have to press the direction after you jump if you are right next to his foot, but why chance it, when standing a ways away and pushing the joystick after you start jumping will yield the same results? This also works with all the other enemies too...fireballs, barrels, springs, etc.

[Ummon]

Yeah, I did it once, too, but it's easy to get killed trying to get that close. As for other baddies, I noticed this but though you actually had to jump away from them to get points.

@fatfingers: that sounds about right without extra points. I always try for the second hammer on the barrels screens, and for both prizes on girder. Sometimes, I'll get the bottom hammer on the pie factory but mostly skip extra points there and elevators. I figure bonus time points are more worth it. I think I average about 55-60k by the end of 4th level barrels. (Notice the 'level=* upper-right.)

[CrazyKongFan]

Yeah, I did it once, too, but it's easy to get killed trying to get that close. As for other baddies, I noticed this but though you actually had to jump away from them to get points.

I do it all the time on the rivet and elevator level. There's not much need to do it on the barrel level, although you can stand next to the ladder and do it as a barrel rolls down. The pie factory, there's not really any good places to do it. I think you're too far away on the level under the oil tank, but if you're close to the edge of the platform, you might be able to do it next to a fireball on the other side of the hole.

[Ummon]

Hey, I finally got through the fourth level elevators. Just in the nick 'o time, too! Then it was like things were kinda easy - until the next elevator board.

[TheShanMan]

It's no different than the 3rd - you follow the same pattern. I now consider the elevator levels to be the easiest - I usually don't lose lives on them.

Now I need to master barrel control. I am much better at anticipating them going down the ladders now that I understand what causes them to do that, but controlling I have yet to master (looking forward to seeing the video lutus mentioned).

How about fireball control ? I consider the rivet levels to be 2nd hardest, and once I master barrel control they will probably become the hardest.

[Lutus]

nm

[CrazyKongFan]

Another thing to watch out for on the 3rd elevator, which I noticed after dying a few times when I thought I had it timed right, and going back and watching the DVD. If you go when the spring is toward the right, and the next spring behind it is also to the right, you'll probably die. If you watch closely on the DVD, you can see Steve is paying attention to the next one when he starts to run to the ladder, and if it's toward the right, he runs back. If it's to the left, he keeps going.
I'm getting the barrel control down pretty good though. It's funny, all these years I noticed they would come down the broken ladder at the top if I ran toward the other ladder to go up, but never put 2 and 2 together to realize I could actually control that

[Ummon]

Yeah, the timing and all of the springies is still way fresh for me. I'm just surprised I made it with my T-stick. Decent sticks for combo use, but not optimal 4-ways. I think the overall hardest screen is rivets. So many times I've thought I had things zipped up and then they somehow get me cornered by one of the top-most rivets. Occasionally, I've been lucky to sneak in and jump over.

[CrazyKongFan]

Another thing I learned from watching the DVD (and a Mame replay file, which used the same pattern), on the rivet level, get the bottom left rivet, then back up the left ladder, skip the 2nd one, then clear the top 2 left side rivets, then back down the left ladders to the 3rd row (with the hammer on the left), grab the hammer and go across to the right side (it helps to wait for a couple of fireballs. This helps clear out the right side of the screen). Get the bottom rivet on the right side (and bonus prize, if possible), then back up the center and grab the hammer under Kong and clear out any more fireballs, and the last top 2 rivets on the right side. Sometimes I skip the top hammer, if it's quicker and safer to get the top 2 right side rivets from the right-side ladders. This seems to work pretty good for me. I'm just having a tough time with the conveyor belt level. Once you get 5 fireballs, it's pretty tough. I wish I had a better stick too. My 8 way works, but not as good as an original DK stick. I think my machine is possessed though, I had one really good game where I got to 229K. Since then, it always seems to do something to me to keep me from getting past level 5

(edit: reworded some of the strategy so it made more sense)

[Spyridon]

Most people have gotten thier DVD's.  If you don't get this week Shanman PM me and let me know.

Thanks to Lutus for sending these out!  Very informative stuff.

[Lutus]

No prob bob.  I can't horde all the technique!

CrazyKongFan, are you waiting on the left side of the oil barrel until all 5 firefoxes come out before you continue on?

I usually walk just to the left side of the center of the screen and as soon as I see that last firefox launch out of the oil barrel I try to high tail it up the right side of the screen to the top.  Screw the hammer, screw the prizes (except the umbrella that is really easy to get)

Course, knowing DK like we know him, this doesn't always work!   

[TheShanMan]

Ummon, that's my exact strategy on the rivet levels too. Works generally, but certainly not all the time. Ditto on Lutus' suggestion on the conveyor belt levels. 5 can often be tough, but I still consider the conveyor belt levels to be second easiest (elevator levels are easiest for me now). Patience is sometimes key here, and if one side is clogged with fireballs, try the other side (I always try first for the right side, but occasionally I see a better opportunity on the left).

[CrazyKongFan]

yeah, I always wait for the 5 fireballs to come out on the left side, but it seems there's always at least 2 of them already down on the platform under the oil barrel before I even get up there.

[Coin_Op]

Have you seen King of Kong and looked at the extras with the side by side gameplay footage?

Basically, on the girder stages, Kong is on the top level.  Play the level like normal and then when you have only the top right girder left to finish the level, stand by Kong's foot and jump.  When in midair press right on the joystick.  This will give you a 100 points.  Now just continue to do this until time reaches 000 then jump the last girder.

Only press right while in midair.  If you are on the ground, do not press it or you will jump over the final girder and end the level prematurely.  You can also press left in midair, but why chance jumping into Kong?



-Jump
-immediately press right
-release right before landing

rinse, repeat



After the third girder stage do not even worry about this trick.  The timer moves to fast to make it worth your while.

Crap! I missed out on these extras

I rented king of kong on cable on demand, and had no idea that it had Extras.

I liked the movie so I rented it a second time, cost me $8.00 for both viewings.


                                         Doh!

Guess I should have just bought the dang DVD.

Are the extras worth buying it?

AsI have already seen it twice.

[TheShanMan]

So I watched the first 200,000+ of the video Lutus sent me. What a joy to watch. I did pick up a number of tips, not the least of which is barrel control (I don't have it down pat yet, but I'm starting to pick it up! don't know why I had so much trouble with it before).

Back to the conveyor belt screen, what I saw him do on all levels is jump straight up immediately, then proceed to the right. All 3, 4, or 5 fireballs come out on the left side without a wasted moment (timing seems absolutely optimal).

On the elevator screens (3rd and beyond), I noticed that he seems to recognize another opportunity to go up the ladder. I always go after the one that bounces almost flush with the right edge of the elevator "mount", but I saw him go after one that wasn't even close to there. In other words, he has developed the ability to maximize points by not having to wait a while until that ideal spring comes along.

On the rivet screens, I have always waited at the bottom hammer until what seems like the ideal time to start getting the most fireballs. He never does - he just gets it immediately and gets whatever fireballs he can regardless. I did this tonight and perhaps it was just coincidence, but the rivet levels seemed easier to finish off than they normally do.

So I played one game to practice some of these techniques. I lost 3 men to practicing the tips I learned from the video but still got 138,000!!! The barrel stages seemed much easier now that I have the hang of barrel control a little bit.

The one thing that stood out to me with the video on the barrel stages... he really seems to have a strategy to avoiding the wild barrels - I sensed absolutely no panic in him, nor hesitation. This is my real downfall on these levels. I panic a bit, and apparently whatever the natural avoidance tendency is, Nintendo has masterfully programmed the barrel to seek you out! But clearly there is a winning strategy with regard to wild barrels. Not sure if it involves some degree of control or a strategy of avoidance or both. Anyone have a sense of what that strategy is?

[Spyridon]

Anyone have a sense of what that strategy is?

In order to beat the barrel, you must become the barrel.  Be the barrel TheShanMan...be the barrel.


Oh yeah, and on your death bed...you will receive total consciousness. 

[massive88]

Crap! I missed out on these extras

I rented king of kong on cable on demand, and had no idea that it had Extras.

Hah, yeah I "rented" it off the Xbox 360 and watched it twice.  I was thinking about going to blockbuster and renting it to just rip the extras.

ShanMan -

On the rivets stage, I noticed the same thing.  I usually wait at the first hammer until I'm sure I can hammer at least two, or I become in mortal danger from one, then I snag the hammer.  I tried just going all out like Steve seems to do, but it seemed less safe, and to not work as well.  Maybe I should give it another shot.

[Coin_Op]

On the rivets stage I make my way up the left side removing all the rivets minus the second rivet and I grab the umbrella.

once I am at the top left, I do the "Taunt" kong thing 'till the bonus timer is at around 3000.

Now I make my way down to the hammer on the left side, at this point I can usually get 3-4 of the fire- balls.

this method works best for me for the first two levels.

Anyone else use this method?

[Ummon]

My 8 way works, but not as good as an original DK stick. I think my machine is possessed though...it always seems to do something to me to keep me from getting past level 5

Isn't that weird? I've noticed this kind of thing in various games. For example, if I'm kickin ass in Strikers 1945, they throw more stuff at me into the third screen. Similar with DK, where if I'm just fakin 'em out, he'll throw a bunch more barrels, sometimes wild ones, etc. (Another one is Dragon's Lair: something about the black night in the palace scene - almost ALWAYS I'm on my last guy when I get there, like it's been cycling till that point just so it can kill me for good on that screen. I think maybe once I've happened to have one more guy left.)

[TheShanMan]

OK, I need to back off a bit from some of my comments I made last night based on the video and the one game I played afterward. He and I both had "one of those games" where everything seems to go right in terms of the rivet level. I have decided to go back to my "wait at the hammer until the time seems opportune" approach. Also my last game "one of those games" where everything works against you. I waited to try to get a bunch of fireballs and was having little luck on the follow through. Then I'd end up with 4 on the middle and right sides of the upper 2 levels, and time would run out as I'm trying to find an opportunity to get up there (just too crowded!!!). Grrr...

In situations like that I wonder if it's possible to coax most of them down by going to the bottom right of the screen? Anyone ever try doing this? There has to be a good way of dealing with that nightmare scenario! Maybe my strategy should shift after the 1st hammer if it looks like a bunch are going to congregate up there... just go straight up for the 2nd hammer, and get the bottom right rivet last. I think I'll try that strategy next time I'm in that situation.

Also, that single jump up on the conveyor screens doesn't always work - you still gotta keep your eyes on the fireballs as they are emerging because they don't always come out quickly enough for them to all end up on the left side.

ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, I'm really starting to master barrel control, and wow does it make the barrel screens easier. However, it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back because it is a dramatic change in approach that requires very different decision making, so it'll take a bit of practice to fully master this strategy.

ALSO, I have a hunch about controlling wild barrels that came to me near the end of my last game. Maybe others have observed this too. I think wild barrels can be controlled in a manner similar to regular barrel control. Specifically, if you're running away from it, it will tend to go toward you, but if you're running toward it, it will tend to go away from you. So right when it hits a girder (where direction can change), run toward it, and that will "push" it away from you, at which point you can turn back around and continue on your merry way. It will be fun to test that hunch.

[Lutus]

About the pie screen and the fireballs...

Since barrels and firefoxes (somewhat) respond to the direction you are moving, why not fireballs.

The next time you are stuck at the top right ladder (that one that moves up and down) on the pie factory, try pushing your joystick left for a few seconds, release and then press left again.  Over and over.  You will be sending the signal of movement to the gameboard and maybe the fireballs will try to "follow" your movement.

Something to try other than just sitting there waiting for an opportunity to advance!

[TheShanMan]

I finished watching the video Lutus shared, and every time on the pie screens he starts by jumping and then runs non-stop to the ladder. Only once did a fireball come out on the right side. When he jumped, there was always a sound that made me wonder if it was more than just a jump (i.e. hitting the joystick while in mid-air) and if that is why it always seems to work for him. Maybe doing that "pulls" the fireballs out quicker than they would otherwise come out. Or maybe it was just one of those magical games where everything seemed to work in his favor (there were plenty of times that I thought that while watching).

[TxGlenn]

As impressive as Steve Weibe's game play is.

Billy Mitchell's was just an absolute pleasure to watch!

Despite what people think of him? He's an awesome gamer!

buckethead -
Can you explain this?  I watched the DVD and some of the extras but didn't watch the side-by-side.  I was wondering if I should put it in the Blockbuster queue again.  Did Mitchell have alot of tricks that Weibe didn't?

[TheShanMan]

I've been practicing the barrel control technique for a while, which means I've been aggressive in my use of it and therefore I've placed myself in a lot of high risk situations as I first of all figure out what can be done with barrel control, and then how I want to incorporate it into my established approach to playing DK. Yesterday I made some conclusions about exactly how and when I want to use it, and when I don't want to use it. Tonight I put that new approach into practice. Result: 1 game played, new high score. 218,900!

To everyone who has contributed helpful information on improving skill at DK, thank you!

Now to work on 300,000!

[massive88]

Grats ShanMan, keep up the good work!

[Lutus]

ShanMan, what are these constraints on barrel control that you speak of?

I have been able to use barrel control to get three barrels on top of each other for "triple" jumps, but that takes quite a bit of time.  Almost more time than just getting the bonus for skipping it altogether.

Shanman, did you use the bottom hammer on this score attempt?


I played a game after a couple week break last night and got 164,000.  Not too bad for as rusty as I was.  Dumb deaths.  And none by way of springs!

[TheShanMan]

No, one of these day's I'll probably start using the bottom hammer. But right now I have enough changes to my ingrained strategy that I need to get used to first. Once I start stagnating, then I'll consider other changes like that.

I just meant stuff like being too fixated on getting as many barrels as possible to drop down the first ladder next to DK to maximize the number of hammered barrels. If one didn't drop I'd stay focused on continuing to make the next ones drop, then go get that one that didn't drop only to have my hammer run out at the last minute. And sometimes in my attempt to get it before the hammer runs out, I'd stupidly not stop running and the barrel would sneak in while my hammer was up in the air and kill me. Yeah, ultimately I should be able to handle situations like that, but right now these new techniques require too much thinking (i.e. I can't run on autopilot), so I had to just back off a bit and say, "here's what I can handle that won't overload the synapses and therefore put me in a position to be killed".

Plus, getting past the 3rd elevator screen is still new enough to me that I start getting overloaded on adrenaline and become a bit jittery. After each level I have to take a couple of deep breaths. It took a while to calm down last night after finishing my game.

[Lutus]

Played one game tonight, while Dad was playing my pin, and I scored 175,000.

I try to only play one game a day, they take a long time to play when you don't die very much! 


If you think your hammer is about to run out, when you get into the "point of no return" when running at a barrel, start slammin on the jump button and if your hammer runs out you will jump.  That saved me on one death on my game today even.

[Ummon]

I don't have any trouble once I get to the second-to-last platform and under the hammer, top-left. However, what I do every time I come to a barrel is STOP...because too many times, though not recently, I've gotten hagged by a barrel coming under the hammer while I'm moving. I think it's something in the code that times them differently. Maybe intentionally for difficulty. I've been away from it for a couple days though due to a fixation with Joust.

[Lutus]

I think I have the elevator stage down cold now.  Here is the dealio.

Once you get to the upmost platform and run to the left, you are currently sitting on top of the right elevator waiting to make your mad dash to the last ladder all the while springs are whizzing past your face, mere millimeters from your death.

We can all get to the that point, it is the last dash that is the hardest part.  Here is what I did this game and it worked every time.

1.  Stand as far to the right as you can, basically, one little toe will be past the right edge of the yellow block.
2.  Watch the left yellow block on top of the left elevator.  When a spring lands fully on the yellow block you are going to go for it.
3.  On the second bounce, as soon as the spring contacts the girder you slam your joystick to the right.  The spring goes faster than you do, so you shouldn't run into the spring from behind.
4.  DO NOT watch mario as he runs.  You watch him out of the corner of your eye.  This is very difficult to keep yourself from doing, just practice it.  So what do you watch?
5.  Watch the left yellow brick and if the spring lands further to the left than the one your started your run on, keep going up the ladder and you will make it.  If the spring lands very close to the one you ran on, or if it is further to the right ABORT.  Run to the left, back to the right elevator yellow block and safety.  Rinse and repeat to beat the level.

If you can train yourself to watch the left yellow block and can control mario out of the corner of your eye, you should not fail.

I used this technique tonight and my hand slipped off the joystick when I was halfway up the ladder.  I pressed up again and still made it.  So you should have a good cushion if you do it right. 

sorry for the long post.

[Farb]

There's a nice visual for what Lutus is describing in the blog entry I posted back on page 1 of this thread.

->Dan

[Ummon]

I went back to this with a recent acquisition, a euro-type stick with really short throw, and the first game I got all the way to level 4/4. Then it was all down hill. The stick has too much play before it touches the microswitches, despite the short throw. Tried some new strategies on rivets, but nothing especially shining out. Am learning some barrel control.

[Lutus]

Even KNOWING what to do on this game doesn't mean at all that you will be able to do it.  This game is one of the funnest classic cabs simply because every single game is different.  Very few patterns to memorize (pacman).

[Ummon]

Even KNOWING what to do on this game doesn't mean at all that you will be able to do it.  This game is one of the funnest classic cabs simply because every single game is different.  Very few patterns to memorize (pacman).

Oh, I don't know about that. There are constants and there are variables.

[Lutus]

You can play with patterns on the rivet stage, that is true.  but the firefox's can be such a variable that it will never play out exactly the same whereas you can play pacman the same way every single time.

That is what I meant.  A different experience each time, but always fun!