Lightgun Calibration is NOT fun...

[deano728]

I have read in many places where everyone loves the LCD topgun and it works great. I haven't had that experience yet.

I am using Smog's Guncon2 driver and I have turned mouse acceleration down to the slowest level in the control panel.  I have a 25" WG monitor in a MK2 cabinet.

When I move the gun, The mouse pointer is always faster than where I am aiming the gun. Nothing I can do will get the mouse pointer to be consistent. So when I am in the lower half of the screen, the mouse pointer is below where I am aiming and in the top half of the screen, the mouse pointer is higher than where I am aiming. When in the center of the screen I am right on.  The same happens on left and right.

I have read posts on this board that and I have tried to shoot outside of the monitor area when doing hardware calibration, but that only mildly alters the degree of the difference.

Anyone have similar issues or know what causes this?

[Games001]

I had the same issue, until I cut down on the IR light sources in the room.  Now it works 98% dead on after calibration.

[deano728]

The cabinet is in my garage and it is pitch black when testing...  I am a knucklehead, what could be causing the IR source?  What was causing it in your case?  It encourages me that someone else had this problem and it is now fixed.  I can't tell you how long I have been messing with these guns.  My wife thinks I have a problem  -  she is right, the darned lightguns won't work right!!!

[fjl]

Maybe there is something in the garage emitting IR light? 

[Kirth]

Maybe an air compressor or a vacuum cleaner.  Their motors would get a bit hot after running.

If you have a Wii you can see IR sources on the calibration screen.  You could wave your wii-mote in the garage and see what shows up.

You could also use a video camera with a night-vision setting.  I think IR sources should show up on that.

[wbassett]

I am also following threads dealing with the LCD Topgun.  IR is one thing I haven't checked for yet.

To be honest, after my initial attempts to get it working I haven't gone back yet to try it again... I got side tracked and busy with some other projects.

It's a shame though, the gun looks really nice and I bought it based on the various reviews I found on the web.  (Sure wish I would have known about this site when I bought the gun!) 

I really want to like this gun and hope Smog's drivers do the trick, but I can't help thinking/feeling that for a gun that's a bit more expensive than others out there it should have been further tested and perfected by the company so it worked right out of the box with manufacturer provided drivers. 

I'll play around with it some more later this week and if I can't get it up and running or it is quirky like it seems it is with some... since I have a CRT I may opt for the Act-Labs guns instead.  Have to wait and see though and I will give the Topgun the benefit of doubt for now.

[Stub]

On their site you can download a diag program for the guns. It shows you a veiw down the barrel of the gun in infrared. You can see what it sees. Download it and try it.

[Stub]

I bought two. My cab is not finished, but in tests with my laptop they worked surpurb. I just had to back up a foot or two.

[northerngames]

I still dont understand why they dont have their own drivers for their own product 

[deano728]

Well, I don't have a Wii.

The only thing that is on in the garage is the refrigerator and the cabinet.  There is no way that the monitor or cab itself is emitting anything that would cloud the signal? It could be that I have sensors on the garage doors that are causing interference?  How far away from that signal must I be to not have it factor in?

My biggest question is that if there was IR interference, would it would be as consistent as it is? To those with previous IR interference problems, was the result more erradic?  My problem is such that when I point the gun at the screen, the mouse will always be in the same position, it is just closer to the edge of the monitor than I am aiming.   The only time I am sync'd up is when I am aiming dead center.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Well, I don't have a Wii.

You need to turn off windows mouse accelleration.... I'm pretty sure that's what the problem is. Go to control panel and shut off the acceleration for your mouse devices.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[deano728]

Thanks for the post Fozzy.  I actually saw that recommendation that you posted on another thread and I raced home from work thinking this HAS to be the answer...  Unfortunately, I turned the mouse pointer speed to the slowest and even though my mouse is unbearable to use in windows, the problem still exists.  Is there somewhere else where there is a mouse acceleration setting that I need to change (outside of making the pointer speed the slowest)?  I am using a wireless logitech keyboard and mouse, but I did not install the logitech software, that wouldn't cause this, would it? 

[u_rebelscum]

Is there somewhere else where there is a mouse acceleration setting that I need to change (outside of making the pointer speed the slowest)?

MS calls acceleration by "Enhance pointer precision" in the mouse Pointer Options for the control panel in XP.  Make sure the box is NOT checked.
Decreasing the speed does not change the mouse acceleration, just the speed.  The best place for speed is usually at the halfway point, as this setting does not modify the signal mouse data (ie: does not multiple or divide).



OT [rant]  Stupid MS marketing.  Checking that box does the opposite of what it's called, by changing the precision depending on how fast the mouse is moved.  Constantly changing does not equal "enhanced"; and results in a lower accuracy.

[deano728]

I am glad to know I don't need to keep my mouse pointer speed all the way at the slowest level.  I do have the pointer precision box unchecked. 

Does anyone know if garage door sensors work on infrared?  I will do a test later tonight to make sure that is not the problem.  Outside of that causing it, I am sorta at a point where I am out of ideas...  Bummer.   

[wbassett]

I've been working on other things and to be honest, I haven't been too fired up and enthused about getting frustrated again with this gun.  I do want to see it work though.

I too will check for IR sources as being part of my problem, it makes sense to check and make sure, but...

I don't think it's the problem in my case, I think it's the bad EMS drivers (as I mentioned I have to install Smog's this weekend and play with things).  I say I don't think so because I have a Guncon 4 gun which is also an IR gun and it works perfect.  I'd think if I had an IR source that is causing the problem then the Guncon 4 would also have issues and it doesn't.

Can you take the gun and LEDs to another place in your house and test it out there?  That could also help eliminate any possible room condition issues.

[SavannahLion]

Does anyone know if garage door sensors work on infrared?  I will do a test later tonight to make sure that is not the problem.

There is no reason for them to use IR, they use RF if anything at all. I can't visualize any garage door using IR at all. IR signals are too unreliable and require line of sight. When you have a heavy door rolling up or down that could conceivably kill a small pet or child, you would want a little more reliability than what an IR signal can achieve.

About how far away are you standing from the screen when you calibrate and use the gun?

[deano728]

Well, I didn't think it could be the cause either, but I had to test it to be sure.  Test confirmed that the garage door is not the problem. 

I really don't think it can be interference as it is just too consistent.  If I point the gun at any location on the monitor, the mouse pointer is ALWAYS at the same spot away from the laser pointer.  Now the tricky part is that the distance between the laser pointer and the mouse pointer gets larger when I move the gunsight closer to the edge of the monitor.  There is always one location on the monitor where the mouse and laser pointer are lined up and varying from that point in any direction results in the mouse pointer moving closer to the edge than the laser pointer. 

If anyone thinks it will help diagnose the problem, I can get a video camera and upload some video to my website...

I am at wits end and probably will be selling 2 lightguns on ebay very soon.  Not many things have left me this frustrated. 

[jace055]

Does anyone know if garage door sensors work on infrared?  I will do a test later tonight to make sure that is not the problem.

There is no reason for them to use IR, they use RF if anything at all. I can't visualize any garage door using IR at all. IR signals are too unreliable and require line of sight. When you have a heavy door rolling up or down that could conceivably kill a small pet or child, you would want a little more reliability than what an IR signal can achieve.

About how far away are you standing from the screen when you calibrate and use the gun?

Actually, some garage doors use IR but not for what you think.  They are used in the safety sensors at the bottom of the door opening.  If anything breaks the beam while the door is closing, the door will stop.  keeping little children and pets from being crushed.  However, I don't think these sensors are active if the door is not moving so I don't think they are your problem either but its worth looking into. 

I would take a closer look at your light bar.  Make sure that the IR lights are actually working.  Look on the internet for some of the hacks people have put thogether for the wii sensor bar lights.  I have seen old remotes and even candles used as IR sources.  you may be able to hack together a new/different sensor bar.  Eliminate all of the possible hardware issues before looking into the much harder to solve software issues.

[SavannahLion]

Does anyone know if garage door sensors work on infrared?  I will do a test later tonight to make sure that is not the problem.

There is no reason for them to use IR, they use RF if anything at all. I can't visualize any garage door using IR at all. IR signals are too unreliable and require line of sight. When you have a heavy door rolling up or down that could conceivably kill a small pet or child, you would want a little more reliability than what an IR signal can achieve.

About how far away are you standing from the screen when you calibrate and use the gun?

Actually, some garage doors use IR but not for what you think.  They are used in the safety sensors at the bottom of the door opening.  If anything breaks the beam while the door is closing, the door will stop.  keeping little children and pets from being crushed.  However, I don't think these sensors are active if the door is not moving so I don't think they are your problem either but its worth looking into. 

I stand corrected.

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think his problem might be the distance the gun is from the monitor. I found a review that states that the sweet spot for these guns with a 29" monitor is two meters from the screen. A 25" would be marginally closer. Positioning the IR bars vertically vs horizontally also effects his distancing.

With the Wii, I get the exact same symptoms he is describing if I stand to close to the TV screen. The "cursor" acts accelerated. Step back about four or five feet (in my case) and the calibration is dead on. Stand back 15 feet from the TV and the mouse seems to move a little on the sluggish side. I suggest using a measuring tape and measuring at least six feet from the monitor, tape off the floor, then see if the gun still has problems.

[um3k]

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think his problem might be the distance the gun is from the monitor. I found a review that states that the sweet spot for these guns with a 29" monitor is two meters from the screen. A 25" would be marginally closer. Positioning the IR bars vertically vs horizontally also effects his distancing.

With the Wii, I get the exact same symptoms he is describing if I stand to close to the TV screen. The "cursor" acts accelerated. Step back about four or five feet (in my case) and the calibration is dead on. Stand back 15 feet from the TV and the mouse seems to move a little on the sluggish side. I suggest using a measuring tape and measuring at least six feet from the monitor, tape off the floor, then see if the gun still has problems.

I agree, I have the guns and they are mounted 28" apart.  I need to stand about 6 feet back to get reliable calibration and firing.   Make sure you redo the calibration when you stand at a different distance, make sure you are shooting the exact corners of your monitor during calibration (use the laser), and make sure that when you pull the trigger during calibration the laser goes off briefly indicating it registered all the leds (if not stand back further and/or reduce light interferance (I need to turn off my overhead lights.)

Good luck!

[wbassett]

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think his problem might be the distance the gun is from the monitor. I found a review that states that the sweet spot for these guns with a 29" monitor is two meters from the screen. A 25" would be marginally closer. Positioning the IR bars vertically vs horizontally also effects his distancing.

With the Wii, I get the exact same symptoms he is describing if I stand to close to the TV screen. The "cursor" acts accelerated. Step back about four or five feet (in my case) and the calibration is dead on. Stand back 15 feet from the TV and the mouse seems to move a little on the sluggish side. I suggest using a measuring tape and measuring at least six feet from the monitor, tape off the floor, then see if the gun still has problems.

I agree, I have the guns and they are mounted 28" apart.  I need to stand about 6 feet back to get reliable calibration and firing.   Make sure you redo the calibration when you stand at a different distance, make sure you are shooting the exact corners of your monitor during calibration (use the laser), and make sure that when you pull the trigger during calibration the laser goes off briefly indicating it registered all the leds (if not stand back further and/or reduce light interferance (I need to turn off my overhead lights.)

Good luck!

I have a question about light interference...  Are these really that sensitive to room lighting?

My son and I read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of YouTube videos (but sadly found this site after the fact), and I saw many people using these guns with a front projector.  The amount of light coming out of a projector and focused on the screen is enormous compared to a room lamp.  It seems a little odd that if these guns will work with a projector they would have such a problem with ambient room lighting.  I think it's more of an issue of the LEDs and the gun quality.  As I mentioned before, in the exact same room with the exact same amount of lights on, the Guncon 4 is flawless, but the LED units also look 1000 times better quality.  Even the LEDs are bigger even though the sensors are less than 2" square.

I am not good at doing hacks (yet at least ) or creating drivers, but I am curious if it would be possible to use the Topgun with the superior quality Guncon LEDs.

I don't have time to play around with my Topgun until this weekend, so wish me luck that I can get it working!  If I can't, I will most likely buy an Act Labs gun and VGA box and test that out.  If I can even get the Topgun to work with my 55" SXRD and the PS3 or XBox 360, I'd give it to my son.  If not... the cats love chasing the laser around when you flip it in calibration mode and shine it around the room.

[um3k]

I have a question about light interference...  Are these really that sensitive to room lighting? My son and I read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of YouTube videos (but sadly found this site after the fact), and I saw many people using these guns with a front projector.  The amount of light coming out of a projector and focused on the screen is enormous compared to a room lamp.  It seems a little odd that if these guns will work with a projector they would have such a problem with ambient room lighting.

My experience with them has been they are sensitive to the overhead "can-type" lights in my basement.  Not so much that it is wildly inaccurate, but more "jumpiness" and "sticking" to certain spots.   I think it is seeing the lights or their reflections as additional led targets and getting confused.  The same thing happens with my Wii sometimes (although to a lesser extent).   For this reason, I usually shut the overhead lights off when calibrating or playing.  I think the projector is not as much of an issue because not as much light is reflected into a single point that could be confused with the led stands.  Also, I'm not sure how much infrared light is put out/reflected by a projector.

I am not good at doing hacks (yet at least ) or creating drivers, but I am curious if it would be possible to use the Topgun with the superior quality Guncon LEDs.

That would probably depend on whether those stands use the same kind of infrared leds, same intensitiy (within reason), and the same arrangement.  Basically, whether the TopGun would recognise the Guncon stands as "its own" as it were.  From what I've seen/read, the led side of the system is very simple, so I imagine its fully possible, but might require some modifications to the stands...

If not... the cats love chasing the laser around when you flip it in calibration mode and shine it around the room.

Mine to... everyone had to be present for calibration time.   There was a lot of commotion when the laser was used on the screen, because it was reflecting off my plexi and the TV glass, so there were like three different laser points all over the room.  Much fun was had by all!

[weisshaupt]

[ It seems a little odd that if these guns will work with a projector they would have such a problem with ambient room lighting.  I

What they have a problem with is Rogue IR light. Thats basically heat folks.. Incandesent bulbs give off heat, and if they (or reflections of them)  end up in the top guns camera view, it can get confused.  I would suspect  some bulbs will give off heat in the right spectrum and some don't, thus leading to some degree to the uneven effects. Loading the troubleshooting driver and looking around in the IR spectrum of the gun is a really good idea if you are having problems, which might be why the manual suggests you do that if you are having problems.. 

I use mine with a projector, but all of the heat from that bulb is BEHND me when I am shooting... and widely disperesed when its sent in front of me to the screen ...

[wbassett]

What they have a problem with is Rogue IR light. Thats basically heat folks.. Incandesent bulbs give off heat, and if they (or reflections of them)  end up in the top guns camera view, it can get confused.  I would suspect  some bulbs will give off heat in the right spectrum and some don't, thus leading to some degree to the uneven effects. Loading the troubleshooting driver and looking around in the IR spectrum of the gun is a really good idea if you are having problems, which might be why the manual suggests you do that if you are having problems.. 

In my defense   I did download the latest drivers and Smogs, as well as the troubleshooter- I was just pretty disgusted when one gun setup and I was playing a game with it literally in a matter of minutes, and that was in the same room with the same lights on... and then the Topgun just wants to be finicky.  To me for the price it should have been just as easy and fast to setup right out of the box as the other gun was.

I use mine with a projector, but all of the heat from that bulb is BEHND me when I am shooting... and widely dispersed when its sent in front of me to the screen ...

I'll double check my package, but I don't recall seeing the trouble shooting driver with the package, but I did download it.  I was just a bit fed up with it by then to mess around with it anymore, and then I was busy with work (have to pay the bills!) so playing around with the gun again will have to wait until this weekend.  Again... it has to be the LEDs or even the quality of the camera in the gun itself because there is absolutely no problem at all with the other LED Light Gun I have.  That's kinda my point... the Topgun looks really cool, but it really isn't ready for prime time yet in my opinion.  Shame, but maybe I'll change my mind after this weekend.

As far as IR and heat... projectors and screens are my area of expertise.  I agree that even though the PJ puts out quite a bit of heat it is behind the gun, and the screen itself diffuses the light across the entire screen surface.

Here's the thing though, the only other light on in my room is a 60W lamp that is in the corner of the room and also behind the gun.  You shouldn't have to turn every light off and be in a completely dark room for it to work.  If so, something is definitely wrong.

One thing I was thinking and will try this weekend is the plexi bezel I have over the monitor.  I'll remove it just to make sure that it's not causing a lot of scatter reflections.

I'm being honest when I say I am not trying to be negative or just trash the Topgun...  I really want it to work, and seeing it cost me around $60 with shipping it's a bit expensive to use as a cat toy

[deano728]

I uninstalled smogs driver in order to try the ems driver and XP is still asking for me to browse to smogs driver even when I manually browse to the EMS one.  Anyone else have problems removing smogs drivers and if so, how did you get it completely off?

[deano728]

Exactly how far away from the screen is ideal?  If I can calibrate and the laser blinks when I shoot at the corners of the screen, is that far enough away?  I am standing about 4 feet away from the cabinet and I had the LED's mounted horizontally attached directly to the monitor.  I REALLY would like to see this thing work as well.  I couldn't be bummed more.  And to think I bought 2 of these things!!!

[SavannahLion]

I found a review that states that the sweet spot for these guns with a 29" monitor is two meters from the screen. A 25" would be marginally closer. Positioning the IR bars vertically vs horizontally also effects his distancing.

I am standing about 4 feet away from the cabinet and I had the LED's mounted horizontally attached directly to the monitor.

2 meters translates to about 6 1/2 feet.

[wbassett]

I found a review that states that the sweet spot for these guns with a 29" monitor is two meters from the screen. A 25" would be marginally closer. Positioning the IR bars vertically vs horizontally also effects his distancing.

I am standing about 4 feet away from the cabinet and I had the LED's mounted horizontally attached directly to the monitor.

2 meters translates to about 6 1/2 feet.

How big is your monitor?  Right now I have a 21" monitor I am using and in order to get the gun to even calibrate I had to stand around 6' back.  That's a bit far for a 21" monitor in my opinion.  I still have to play around with it some more though.

[stan2323]

I have just got a LCD Topgun.  I have it tracking good and the buttons working in Windows.  In Mame I see the cursor and it moves OK tracking the red dot.  When I push tab set the lightgun X and Y it pops in the box and gun X and gun Y  The only problem I have it that I can not get Mame to see the trigger press to shoot the gun.  If I stand close to the CP and set the trigger to another button I can press it and play like that.  I did that to see what would happen.  I have tried Joy 2 Key but I can not get that to work so far.  I think that I may have Joy 2 Key set wrong.  I am going to work more on that is the next few days.  If I could get around this one problem I think they would be good.   Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

I tried Wingun, and Smogs drivers.  I was not able to get either of them working.  Wingun would track in Windows but not in Mame.  It was not too accurate either.  Smogs was no help at all.  I could not get any tracking or anything with them. 

I used the IR trouble shooter to look for interference but there is little to none.  I did notice that as your moving the guns around the dots move.  I used that to draw the limits of the gun so to speak.   See how far to one side I can aim and still see all 5 dots, how close I can get and see all 5 dots.  I noticed the big problem is when the gun is angled of to the side.  That is when it dose not see the IR light and can not figure out where it is.  Keeping this in mind when calibrating made a big difference in the accuracy.  Angle the gun as little as possible move to the side and move the gun up and down to get a straight shot at the calibration targets.  Hope this helps.

System info

Windows XP
P4 3 GHz
1 Gig Ram
Mame124
EasyMame front end
EMSTOPGUN drivers
EMS Mouse2Gun
Multimouse is enabled
Lightgun enabled (have tried both ways)