230v Thermostat - Electronics wiz help required

[ex_directory]

I got given a temp controlled thermostat not so long ago, a friend thought I could use it on my cab. It is actually a 230v AC fan connected to a Pfannenberg thermostat FLZ 530.

It has an analog dial to control temperature and it works when you move the dial and the thermostat kicks in but bizarrely it seems to kick in when I turn the temperature dial down. The dial is marked as 0-60'c and seems to kick in at about 10'c.

I found a datasheet online for it here, but not be an electronics type, the speak confuses me slightly...

It says "FLZ 530 – Shutter (Contact closes with rising temperature – Setting knob with blue imprint)"

to me this implies as temp goes up the circuit is made and live is switched so the fan receives power?

it then goes on to say...

"- For the temperature setting of the opener the highest possible hysteresis must be added to the required minimum temperature.
For example: - required minimum temperature inside switch cabinet: 9°C (46°F)
- temperature to be set: 20°C (66°F)
- resulting from: 20°C (66°F) = required temperature 9°C + highest
possible hysteresis 11K (7K+4K)"

What?

Am I actually holding a thermostat that only kicks in when temperature gets too low?

It also goes on to say, "The information on the name plate (voltage and current) is to be heeded." - obviously but the name plate says 6a, but presumably when the circuit is closed this is just max load and the fan determines the actual amps (which is 15w)?

And finally, "- The thermostat should be assembled in the upper part of the switch cabinet at the maximum possible distance from heat creating components.".

I am thinking of using this not on my cab but in a small cabinet where my xbox, dvd and sky box live which gets hot as you can imagine! Anyone think this would not be an appropriate use of the device  ??

[DaOld Man]

I think that will work nicely for what you want to do.

to me this implies as temp goes up the circuit is made and live is switched so the fan receives power?

Yes, thats what it means.

"- For the temperature setting of the opener the highest possible hysteresis must be added to the required minimum temperature.
For example: - required minimum temperature inside switch cabinet: 9°C (46°F)
- temperature to be set: 20°C (66°F)
- resulting from: 20°C (66°F) = required temperature 9°C + highest
possible hysteresis 11K (7K+4K)"

What?

I would not worry about any of that.

It also goes on to say, "The information on the name plate (voltage and current) is to be heeded." - obviously but the name plate says 6a, but presumably when the circuit is closed this is just max load and the fan determines the actual amps (which is 15w)?

15 watts is very low. This switch should handle that easily.
If it is 230 volts, it will be 15/230 =0.066 amps.
Unless you meant the fan is 15 amps instead of 15 watts.
If it is 15 amps it is probably way too big for what you want to do with it.

And finally, "- The thermostat should be assembled in the upper part of the switch cabinet at the maximum possible distance from heat creating components.".

The thermostat will do better in the upper part, close to the exhaust hole. This way it is measuring the temperature leaving the cabinet, so it gets a truer reading. EXCEPT, when the fan is off, it may not get warm due to air outside the cab "cooling it off". I would put the thermostat near the exhaust hole, but not real close.
Heat rises, so when everything heats up, just make sure the thermostat can sense the rising hot air, so it will turn the fan back on at the correct time.

Hope this helps, and i hope I didnt confuse you more.

[ex_directory]

That's all good, thanks for your help (I mean't 15 watts! Its just a standard 12cm AC fan), one thing I still don't understand though is how to read the dial -

Let's say the room temp is 20'c, i have the dial set at 60'c (max). At this point the fan is off, when I then turn the dial down, at about 10'c the fan starts. If I turn it back up again it will shut off. So obviously the dial reading 0'c to 60'c is not referring to the room temp?

[fjl]

230V? Is that standard electricity where you live?

[ex_directory]

230V? Is that standard electricity where you live?

Yep, originally the UK mains supply voltage was specified at 240 Volts RMS +/-6%.

Some time ago, to allow harmonisation across Europe, the specifications were changed to 230 Volts +10%/-6%

I just quoted this from some site

[ringram]

Heating systems are typically 230V. The actual voltage may vary slightly.

If this is a "HEATING" thermostat, it won't work for cooling the cabinet. If you have it set for 20C, and the ambient temperature is higher, the contact will be open. (because there is no call for heat). If the ambient temperature falls below the set point, the contacts will close (calling for heat).

You want a thermostat for cooling. So, as the cabinet temperature rises, the thermostats contacts will close, which will turn on the fan, and cool the cabinet.

[Fozzy The Bear]

If this is a "HEATING" thermostat, it won't work for cooling the cabinet. If you have it set for 20C, and the ambient temperature is higher, the contact will be open. (because there is no call for heat). If the ambient temperature falls below the set point, the contacts will close (calling for heat).

Easily fixed...... You just put a relay on the output.... So when the contact closes on the thermostat it fires the relay and opens a set of normally closed contacts.....you connect your fan via these NC switched connections on the relay. So that the fan runs until the temperature drops to the level set by the thermostat.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear) 

[ex_directory]

Heating systems are typically 230V. The actual voltage may vary slightly.

Everything in the UK is 230v.

When this was given to me it was already connected up to the fan, suggesting it should work as temp rises otherwise what would the electrician who put it together be using it for (unless it was to suck in warm air !!).

The data sheet at the top also suggests it should work as temp rises so am hoping it is just the dial that is confusing. Time to get the  hair dryer out I fear.

[ex_directory]

Found a pic of the thermostat.

[DaOld Man]

Let's say the room temp is 20'c, i have the dial set at 60'c (max). At this point the fan is off, when I then turn the dial down, at about 10'c the fan starts. If I turn it back up again it will shut off. So obviously the dial reading 0'c to 60'c is not referring to the room temp?

Thats ok. For simplicity's sake, lets say the temp settings on the thermostat dial are between 1 and 10.
On a cooling system, lets say you want the temp to be 5, so you set the thermostat on 5.

If you turn the thermostat down to 2, then you are saying you want the temp now to be 2, so the fan comes on.
When the temp gets down to 2, the fan will cut off.

Now lets say the thermostat is placed on 5 again, and the temp is 6, so the fan is running because the temp is above the setting.
If you turn the thermostat up to 7, the thermostat now wants a temp of 7, so it turns the fan off.
The fan will stay off until the temp reaches 7. Above 7 the fan will come on again.

So you are correct about the dial reading. it is not referring to the actual temp, but what you want the temp to be.
You need a thermometer to tell you the actual temp. Also, the fan will turn on and off at around the setting, it will be a little above the set mark and a little below the set mark. This is where the hysteresis comes in, but I wouldnt worry about that.

[ex_directory]

Thats ok. For simplicity's sake, lets say the temp settings on the thermostat dial are between 1 and 10.
On a cooling system, lets say you want the temp to be 5, so you set the thermostat on 5.

If you turn the thermostat down to 2, then you are saying you want the temp now to be 2, so the fan comes on.
When the temp gets down to 2, the fan will cut off.

Now lets say the thermostat is placed on 5 again, and the temp is 6, so the fan is running because the temp is above the setting.
If you turn the thermostat up to 7, the thermostat now wants a temp of 7, so it turns the fan off.
The fan will stay off until the temp reaches 7. Above 7 the fan will come on again.

So you are correct about the dial reading. it is not referring to the actual temp, but what you want the temp to be.
You need a thermometer to tell you the actual temp. Also, the fan will turn on and off at around the setting, it will be a little above the set mark and a little below the set mark. This is where the hysteresis comes in, but I wouldnt worry about that.

Thanks DaOldMan, I got it! Well almost 

Tried the hair dryer (laymans) method tonight, hairdryer blowing on it, it came on, 5 mins later it turned off. There is just one thing stopping me using this now, when it turns off my speakers make a grumbling noise for about 1 sec, like an interference. Unless there is a logical explanation for this then I am not sure I can trust it (as I don't know where it came from!).

[ex_directory]

Any thoughts on the speaker issue? Is this just some static thing or is the thermo shutting off not shutting off instantly, so there is some residual power while it is shutting off if you see what i mean?

[Fozzy The Bear]

Any thoughts on the speaker issue? Is this just some static thing or is the thermo shutting off not shutting off instantly, so there is some residual power while it is shutting off if you see what i mean?

Why do you actually need to use this thing anyway..... If you need a fan on the case then fit a big fan run it at low speed and you'll hardly hear it.  You don't need to temp control it, just run it all the time.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[ex_directory]

Why do you actually need to use this thing anyway..... If you need a fan on the case then fit a big fan run it at low speed and you'll hardly hear it.  You don't need to temp control it, just run it all the time.

Julian, I am thinking of using this not on my cab but in a small home made (closed) cabinet where my xbox, dvd and sky box live. The dvd never gets hot, but the xbox and sky+ box can get radioactive. Running the fan 24/7 would be a waste as it is really only an issue when the xbox is on (once a day) and sky+ is on (it generally is not turned off). Ideally a little 12v molex output from the 360 would be best (like my cab pc) but failing that, was thinking a thermo controlled thing. Asking my son to turn on a fan just won't happen!

[Fozzy The Bear]

Asking my son to turn on a fan just won't happen!

There's an easy way to deal with that one.... get a 240V Fan and wire a small junction box with the 360 power lead (maybe with the sky box power lead as well)...and the fan power lead into the same box. That way when the 240V power is running for the Sky Box and the 360 the fan will always be running too. Just provide a single switch that powers them up.

The other alternative is one of those smart power strips, that powers one socket constantly and when you turn the device on that is connected to that socket, the other three sockets power up. So connect the X-box or Sky Box to the primary socket and the fan to one of the others..... every time you turn on the X-Box the fan will then start up.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

 

[ex_directory]

The other alternative is one of those smart power strips, that powers one socket constantly and when you turn the device on that is connected to that socket, the other three sockets power up. So connect the X-box or Sky Box to the primary socket and the fan to one of the others..... every time you turn on the X-Box the fan will then start up.

Like this idea, know about the power strip but hadn't really considered this an option for some reason - in fact just replied to a thread about this!

What I could use then is a powerstrip and a fan from quietpc.com that would run all the time the xbox is on. I have a couple of 230v AC fan's and they are noisy.

The pc ones are of course all <= 12v.  Anyone know what I would need to buy from maplins to get from 230v (UK voltage) to 12VDc? Is it a case of finding a plug adaptor with the right voltage and splicing the end, adding some female discnnects to the fan?

[DaOld Man]

Any thoughts on the speaker issue? Is this just some static thing or is the thermo shutting off not shutting off instantly, so there is some residual power while it is shutting off if you see what i mean?

To answer your question, the noise is most likely the electrical noise created when the thermostats switch opens. The arc sends out radio waves too, which could be why the speaker amps are picking it up.
You can try to move the thermostat to a different position. You can also try powering the fan from a different power outlet. Or you may have to install a capacitor/resistor across the thermostat to quench the noise.

[DaOld Man]

What I could use then is a powerstrip and a fan from quietpc.com that would run all the time the xbox is on. I have a couple of 230v AC fan's and they are noisy.

The pc ones are of course all <= 12v.  Anyone know what I would need to buy from maplins to get from 230v (UK voltage) to 12VDc? Is it a case of finding a plug adaptor with the right voltage and splicing the end, adding some female discnnects to the fan?

I dont know about the UK, but here in the US its quite simple to get a "wall wart" which is a plug in power adapter to give you 12 volts dc for the fans. It shouldnt have to be very big if you are just powering the one 12 volt fan.
Probably a 500 ma one would do good.
Just cut the plug off the end, wire it to your 12 v fan, plug it in, if it works great, if it doesnt, reverse the leads to the fan.
I agree with Fozzy, this is most likely the best way to go.

[DaOld Man]

Heres one, but you will need to wire a automobile cigarette lighter type plug on your fan..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/POWER-INVERTER-AC-240V-12V/dp/B000S0XNME/ref=pd_sbs_ce_title_1/202-1419878-2770267

[ex_directory]

Found this one...

http://www.m-99.co.uk/Electrical/240v_Mains_to_12Vdc_Regulated/240v_mains_to_12vdc_regulated.html

[DaOld Man]

That would work, as long as the fan you are using doesnt draw over 0.5 amp.


Edited: changed 1 amp to 0.5 amp