why no tron stick solution after all this time?

[TheShanMan]

I've spent a good part of today searching the boards for info on how people have solved the tron stick problem (specialized restrictor and trigger button), and I'm actually feeling very amazed right now. I see discussions on the topic going back for YEARS. There are a number of amazing manufacturers producing high quality, innovative products (GGG, Ultimarc, Ram - if some of those projects would actually get completed).

How is it that after all this time no one has come up with a great solution, even if it doesn't have the original translucent blue look? Seems to me that the ultrastik 360 comes closest with it's ability to do per-game mappings (because who wants a joystick that is dedicated to a single game?), but for whatever reason its design doesn't lend itself to a trigger button apparently?

Am I missing something here? How is it that a joystick manufactured 25 years ago can't be approximately recreated? It seems like everyone on this board would shell out the cash in a heartbeat for one!

If nothing else, why not an ultrastik 360 with a tron style handle (at this stage who cares if it looks the same as long as it works similarly) with a wireless transmitter inside for the button? I saw a little discussion of this idea, but it was in the context of putting a button on a ball top, where room is obviously a concern. A tron style handle would obviously have room inside for a transmitter. Yeah, I know that twisting is somewhat of an issue (although with a wireless transmitter it would be less of a concern), but I have to think that isn't a huge issue to overcome.

So to some degree I'm venting because I feel like I've wasted so much time searching, and feel no closer to being able to play tron reasonably well. But to some degree I'm also hoping to generate renewed interest by some of the more ingenious types here, as well as our beloved home arcade product manufacturers. There has to be a solution - it seems like we're already SO close!

[Fozzy The Bear]

Am I missing something here?

What a long post and pointless rant for a simple question. You could have tried asking instead of ranting!

Yes you are missing something.......   
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50997000.htm

That's a TRON Stick.... all be it with a black coloured handle. If you want it to behave like a tron stick, then you'd need to add a rubber restrictor. Otherwise it's already right for "Discs Of Tron" and "Satans Hollow".

The only thing it doesn't have is the translucent blue or red handle, and I was working on those. It's a temporarily shelved project, due to some time and materials restrictions.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[leapinlew]

Genesim did this mod recently:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=76052.0

Other people switch between a happs top fire and a 4 way.

Some people buy a Tron joystick.

Others don't really worry about it since Tron isn't that high on peoples favorite list. Sure, it's a cool cabinet, but as far as the game goes...

[TheShanMan]

Guys, I may have come across wrong and for that I apologize (I feel embarrassed for apparently coming across like a self-important jerk). I wasn't complaining that someone hasn't done something to make me happy. I was just surprised that no better solution has come about. And after spending a lot of time searching and finding cases of 1 person doing this (like hacking a u360), and 1 person doing that (like making a restrictor out of a wooden flagpole), but no real "holy grail" solution I felt like I had wasted a lot of time for no benefit. It was my seemingly wasted time that I was venting about, while at the same time trying to turn that into perhaps a discussion of how we might be able to reach that goal.

Fozzy, I was aware of the happ joystick, but my understanding is that it doesn't have proper restriction and therefore ISN'T ideal for tron. In the threads that I ran across today, that's what I was seeing. Are you saying it does come with a restrictor that makes it more ideal for tron? Or where are these purchased? Somehow I missed discussion of that, even though I did search on restrictors.

Leapinlew, I did see that thread, but I've also seen some discussion about NOT being able to mod the U360 to have a trigger button. I know I got that response from Andy when I asked him about the idea, and I think I saw it in a thread here too. It would also be nice if it didn't require buying 2 expensive joysticks and ending up with 1 (but if that was widely considered to be a great way to get tron functionality, then so be it). Yeah, I'd love to buy a tron stick. I'm trying to find one but they don't seem easy to come by. I was checking a local arcade repair shop with no luck and there may be another one close enough to me to check as well. I don't get the impression that they appear on ebay very often either.

[leapinlew]

I edited the smartassness out of my post.

I would probably just wait for one to come up on ebay. There were 3 or so last month. Be prepared to shell out some cash. Genesim seems completely content playing Tron as a 4 way only.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Fozzy, I was aware of the happ joystick, but my understanding is that it doesn't have proper restriction and therefore ISN'T ideal for tron. In the threads that I ran across today, that's what I was seeing. Are you saying it does come with a restrictor that makes it more ideal for tron? Or where are these purchased? Somehow I missed discussion of that, even though I did search on restrictors.

First of all.... you're looking for instant solutions and getting yourself frustrated because nobody can sell you exactly what you want immediately.  This hobby simply doesn't work like that. You have to have some patience!

If you want an original TRON stick then do what Lew said and buy one off eBay. They come up two or three times a month. If you have the sort of money they go for even in bad condition, then good luck with that.

If you want the Happ stick then NO! they don't come with the correct restrictor for the original TRON game. The original TRON had an eight way stick, that had a rubber restrictor that made it behave like a 4 way stick, unless you pushed harder into the corners. This made it possible to easily play the light cycles part of TRON and still be able to have eight way movement in the grid and MCP parts of the game.

You can't buy one of those restrictors.... But you can make one. You can make one from a sheet of oilproof rubber about 1/8" thick. you just have to cut it to the shape you need and to fit into the stick assembly. It can be done but it takes some fiddling and trial and error to get it right.

This said, a TRON stick is not much good for playing anything but TRON and a couple of other games that used it. So be sure you actually want one before diving into this.

As for wanting things NOW! slow down! have patience! wait until the right thing comes your way, and don't rush your project. Things don't happen instantly in this game.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[TheShanMan]

Thanks for the info Fozzy. I'm actually not looking for instant solutions. It's just that in my searching I see these discussions happening over the course of years with no apparent holy grail solution.

I got the sense that they're hard to find on ebay because if I search now, even including completed auctions, there is nothing. I will keep watching though, and I haven't given up on finding one locally at a little arcade repair type of shop. I have no idea what to expect to pay though since I can't find an example of a tron stick sale on ebay.

Making one sounds like the best bet, and I'm not against that (I've done my share of hacking - a keyboard hack 9 years ago that I'm about to replace with an encoder as well as a mouse hack for my trackball and spinner). I definitely want a tron stick and since I'm doing a swappable panel, I don't have to worry much about adding clutter like most do - I just add it to my spinner panel. I can't say I'm excited about shelling out $100 for a single game joystick, which is why I think the u360 plus a trigger handle would be more ideal to me. But for all I know I could be waiting forever and never get that kind of a solution.

If this rubber restrictor is a perfect solution (and it certainly sounds like it is), I'm just surprised that no one has decided to make a couple hundred of them and sell them. It seems like if someone finds the right kind of rubber that would be a logical next step and I would think they would sell easily. I'd rather pay $10 or whatever for a restrictor I know will work, then to try to figure out where to get the rubber, what kind of rubber to get, and then go through the trial and error of making it correctly. I'm just not big on reinventing the wheel if I don't have to.

For now, I guess I will patiently watch ebay, and if after a while I decide I'm better off getting the happ one and figuring out how to do the rubber restrictor, I may just hit you up for some details.

[Paul Olson]

Search the BST forum. Someone has already produced the restrictor. Sorry, I don't have the link. I hope people are buying them so he will keep offering them. I don't know how many people actually want a dedicated tron stick on their panel. Probably limited to swappable and modular panels. I found a complete tron panel on ebay last year for about $90, so they are available sometimes. It would probably be cheaper to buy a used similar stick then add the restrictor, but those are starting to go for lots of money too.

Good luck! I have quite a few specialty controls, and I think my tron stick is probably my favorite. It was also a contributing factor to going modular, which cost me way more money than the stick. 

[NoOne=NBA=]

Encryptor is the one selling them, and hasn't been able to sell more than a few.
For whatever reason Tron sticks aren't that big an item.

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, I just found his thread. I am definitely interested. My preference would be to get a tron/dot/xenophobe stick, and only get the happ if I can't find one of the others or if the price is too high in comparison (I have NO idea what to expect on original sticks). Of course, if possible I would really like to know for sure that the restrictor works in the happ before I go down that path.

I appreciate all the helpful info. I am also quite shocked that there isn't more interest in this.

[NoOne=NBA=]

The Xeno sticks usually go pretty cheap on ebay, with black handles.
DOT sticks can go cheap as well, if they've got black handles.
I got one of my Tron CP's for $25 a few months back, so those CAN go cheap, but usually don't.

I wouldn't go the Happ route unless you are really tired of waiting for a stick to come up on ebay.
They don't have the leafswitches, so you can't adjust them as well as an original, and reports are that the upper restrictor may be tack welded into place.

[ahofle]

IMO the best solution for Tron on a MAME cabinet would be a stick like the U360 or a 49 way with a software map just for Tron.  That way the stick would be useful for more than just Tron.  What I am surprised doesn't exist after all this time is a good arcade flight stick solution, even if just an after market shaft for a U360 or 49-way.  Those Happs flight sticks are too expensive for my blood.

[TheShanMan]

NoOne=NBA=, thanks for the input. I understand there's still that question on the happ stick, so I would certainly call happ before committing to that solution.

ahofle, the problem with the u360 is that there isn't a trigger, so for tron, how do you simultaneously work the stick, a spinner, and a button? I agree that would be great (if the u360 had a trigger option), but it's not quite as important for me personally because I have swappable panels, so I'm going to put this on my spinner panel. I originally intended the stick on this panel to be an analog trigger stick, but have since decided that's not an option for tron, so the analog stick will have to go on a different panel unfortunately.

[ahofle]

Sorry, I actually meant a U360 or 49 way with a flight stick shaft attached to it of course.

[Ummon]

Sorry, I actually meant a U360 or 49 way with a flight stick shaft attached to it of course.

Since genesim has done it, maybe you all should bug Andy to produce an official version.

[ahofle]

He hacked a $125 flight stick to use with a $60 U360.  Not exactly the price range I was hoping for.

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, and I have talked to andy about it. He believes (and from what I can tell from that thread) there is nothing to prevent rotation of the shaft, and while maybe someone could live with that as a home built solution, it certainly isn't marketable as an actual product like that.

Other than that, I agree with ahofle. I'm hoping to avoid spending nearly $200 to get something that kind of solves the problem.

[Stub]

I want to add one or two flight-tron-dual joysticks to my cab. I would consider a U360 mod to be perfect, BUT I already have 4 U360. I don't think there is a way to address more than 4 units. Any suggestions? What other "tronish" sticks would you recommend for a second controller?

[TheShanMan]

The happ trigger stick (cheaper thru divemaster in the BST forum), along with a reproduction restrictor from encryptor (BST forum as well).

[Spacejack]

"so for tron, how do you simultaneously work the stick, a spinner, and a button?"

As for me, I use a regular joystick (now a u360, but previously just an 8-way) and use the spinner righthanded and one thumb on that hand for the button.  It's pretty far removed from actual Tron CP but my scores aren't terrible.

[Encryptor]

An original Tron stick as well as the Happ Heavy Duty Trigger stick both have a trigger button and the Tron stick can have a thumb button like Discs of Tron as well.

Encryptor

[Stub]

Anyone recommend a trigger stick the is a bit less of a monster? I was looking for something a bit smaller that wont overwhelm my panel.

[Bender]

you can get a fantastic reproduction tron restrictor from Encryptor!

it will fit perfectly into the happ stick
It may take a little work to get it apart, I think it is welded, but if you could get it a part, and back together again you'd have a true tron stick (except for the leaf switches, and translucent blue handles, but now we're nitpicking)

Stub, here is a pretty smallish top fire stick although I don't know how you'd do the restriction
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50800010.htm

[Bender]

hey I just noticed this
EDIT this is the wrong linkhttp://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50800010.htm
the correct link here: http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/95070100.htm
it's expensive but it may finally be the holy grail
An analog trigger stick, now that you can build custom maps for Mame (like for the u360) you could use it for Tron, DOT and whatever else

[Fozzy The Bear]

hey I just noticed this
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50800010.htm
 it's expensive but it may finally be the holy grail
An analog trigger stick, now that you can build custom maps for Mame (like for the u360) you could use it for Tron, DOT and whatever else

That's not an analog trigger stick.... It's a digital, switched stick. That comes as either a 4-way or 8-way. Top fire sticks like that one are already available for way less money.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Encryptor]

If you're looking for a top fire this one from Happ can be bought on Ebay from a guy in Canada for around $10 plus shipping. It's compact and available in 2, 4 and 8 way.

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50700800.htm

Encryptor

[Bender]

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!

I've been promising to do this for a while. I have been on the same quest as theShanMan for a couple of years but put it on hold after I actually got a Tron cab, but I want to put a happ/tron stick in my mame cab eventually, now I know it definitely works

You can easily put Encryptor's restrictor in a happ trigger stick in less than 10 min and have a Tron stick
The Happ stick IS NOT welded (just lock-tight) there is a little trick to getting it apart
I'll make a post of the whole process but here are a couple photos in the mean time

Also I've tried Tron and DOT and they actually BOTH work great with that restrictor.
In Tron there is no difference in game play.
There are a couple of physical differences, the Happ stick has a forward lean, the original post is straight, and of course the microswich clicking(maybe leaf type microswiches would fix that) and no transparent blue handles

Tron is really more of an 8 way with a positive track to hit the 4 ways on the light cycles, than a 4 way that you have to push hard to get the diagonals as I've heard it described before.

[stan2323]

There has to be a solution -

I have a HAPP heavy duty 8 way.  It takes practice but it works just fine.  You get used to coming back to center before going the next direction.  I know it is not "authentic" but it is ok for now.  I have been playing my control panel getting it and MAME right.  Now that I have most of it good I have moved on to fine tuning.  I ordered the restrictors from Encryptor and when they come in I will put them in.   To me the HAPP heavy Duty 8 way and Encryptor restrictor seems like an almost exact solution.  Add to that what Bender just said and well I do not think you could go wrong.  If you really want authentic pick up an old set of handles that comes up on Ebay from time to time and BOOM.  You got the right color and every thing.  I picked up an old control panel and the handles do fit the HAPP heavy duty 8 way.  There is one small piece of plastic that must be cut off to make the micro switch fit in the Tron handles but that is no bid deal.  You will see what I mean when you try to put them in place.

[arzoo]

Sorry, I actually meant a U360 or 49 way with a flight stick shaft attached to it of course.

As well as a 360 is made, I doubt the base and mechanics could handle the extra stress from the long trigger handle - that's why the base and grommet of a "heavy duty" trigger is a beast! Also, the spring in a 360 most likely would not center the stick well. Same goes for a 49. I built a custom trigger stick from a cheap analog pc stick and a Happ Super base. I never really used it much for fear it would snap the base or shaft. In the end, I purchased a Happ Heavy Duty Trigger (used) off ebay. With some adjustments to the leafs, you can make it work for the Tron cycles, but it's not nearly perfect - you still end up with the dreaded "step" path!

[Bender]

If you're looking for a top fire this one from Happ can be bought on Ebay from a guy in Canada for around $10 plus shipping. It's compact and available in 2, 4 and 8 way.

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50700800.htm

Encryptor

look at this diagram it looks like you might be able to make a tron resrictor to replace the one in there(part 95-1258-03)

[Bender]

hey I just noticed this
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50800010.htm
 it's expensive but it may finally be the holy grail
An analog trigger stick, now that you can build custom maps for Mame (like for the u360) you could use it for Tron, DOT and whatever else

That's not an analog trigger stick.... It's a digital, switched stick. That comes as either a 4-way or 8-way. Top fire sticks like that one are already available for way less money.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Hey Fozzy,

Sorry, I posted the wrong Link
here is the right one (although obscenely expensive)
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/95070100.htm

[stan2323]

My Tron solution.  I wanted a way to have the TRON logo on the top but keep the 2 buttons for DOT and other games.  I also did not want to put two holes in the Tron Logo.  The solution was a small pieces of tape.  Now when I need the other buttons I flip the Tron logo over.  Works for me.  Before you ask I have not had a problem with it.  If I do then I can it off with no loss no gain.  I can always make holes later if I want.  The best of both worlds so far.

[Bender]

Happ Triggerstick into a Tron Stick
here is the thread I made on how to do it
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=78233.msg815651#msg815651