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Author Topic: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD  (Read 8461 times)

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genesim

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*NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« on: January 28, 2008, 09:42:11 pm »
Sorry, but the other post got too off topic, so I am going to try again.

It took a little bit of time, but I am very happy with the results!



First I drilled 4 holes in the bottom after measuring it from the top and dissambling the rubber grommet.

Sorry if there isn't a ton of documentation, but I was winging it as I went.

I matched the bit to the screws in the original housing to keep it consistent.



Despite how the picture looks, I screwed in from the bottom and used the nuts left over from the grommet.   The original screws I just inserted into the copper pipes to keep the original housing together.

I discarded all springs and actuator's cause they are unneeded anymore because of the heavy duty rubber gromment that acts the same way.





I then spaced it with left over plastic from my last project to keep the joystick from tightening up too deep.
Lastly, when I put on the green detector, I had to bend the metal to keep it in the center.





genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 09:47:22 pm »
Just for the record, the magnet fit great around the end.   No extra fitting necessary!


Hoopz

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 09:51:45 pm »
Armax?  Are you still trying to sell stuff and having to resort to 3 separate threads??

Sorry, couldn't resist.

And which of your other two topics got too off topic?  The first or second one on the same project?
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 10:20:28 pm »
nice

Bender

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 11:06:14 pm »
I have a couple of questions

How did you get the brass columns off?
Can you explain what you used on the bottom to go through into the 360 (the shaft that you connected the magnet to) and how you connected it to the happ stick?

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 11:32:54 pm »
The brass columns cannot come off because they are welded.   That said, they don't need to come off anyway.   It is mainly there to hold the whole housing, so it needs to be stable.     As for what went through....I am not following?   The nut is the only thing that is sitting in the half shell.   While this could be improved, it is not a big deal because the pressure is on the top part with the plastic.

The magnet itself just ...uh is a magnet so it sticks to the end just like Ultimarcs.   Hope that helps.   It is a really nice fit.

Ummon

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2008, 02:24:46 pm »
How did you get the wire bundle out the side?
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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2008, 08:50:49 pm »
Ummon
The Happ shaft is hollow to let the trigger wires go thru.
There are three kinds of people in the world those that can count and those that can't.

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 04:40:11 am »
Yes thanks for the anser.   The wires have been a problem on the previous mod I did.  I wish they would have put them further down....

As for the mod itself, I am working on more improvement.   I think the magnet is too close.   While it works fine enough, I feel that the full range of motion isn't detected...kind of not seeing the big picture because of being too close...if that makes sense.

I have been thinking about it, and I would rather use as much of the original stick as possible.

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 04:14:23 pm »
   How long is the assembly below the mounting surface? That has got to be a good 5 inches by the looks of it.

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 11:50:15 pm »
I will have to measure it later.   The problem is the nut .  Either I find a smaller one or I am going to have to get rid of the whole middle part and just let it hover.

Which may not be a bad thing.   I can probably cut a couple of 3/4 inch mdf's instead or maybe one more plastic spacer.    This might give me a better depth. 

I have a second U360 coming in....but it is delayed.   I will get to that story on another thread, I am biting my tongue for now.

When that  one comes in, I one to see how it works a little better unadulterated.

leapinlew

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 12:25:38 am »
Have you tried it with Tron yet?

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 08:22:20 am »
Yes I have, as I said on the other post, I still get a stair step from time to time, but not nearly as bad.

I first want to get this distance problem(if it is one) straightened out, then I will report back on the sensitivity.

I think I can get a much better reaction if I only enable the one arrow in the corner.   This will give me a somewhat Tron feel by being able to go in the diagonals if I go all the way into the corners.   The 8 way rubber grommet is a little tough, so with only the full distance of the throw enabled, in theory, this should give the feel.

But that said, this still may not be good enough, it all comes down to how accurate it feels to the original ultimarc.    When that *%^&$* comes in, I will be sure to try it.   I was so stupid not to order from Andy.   I tried to save a buck and instead I not only paid a little more, but I also am getting gigged for service.   I will be more then happy to report the whole problem as soon as I recieve the second stick.   As it stands, I will bite my tongue for now.

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 04:26:10 pm »
Here is my problem.   Becuase of the non-removable restrictor, my throw is too short!   So I am not getting the full analog movemen, unless I pick circular restriction, which makes the range to confined to mark off the outer arrows in Tron.

Thats why I am not getting distinct closer defined degrees of motion.

There is no way around this unless I destroy the grommet.    Which, I am not doing...so I guess it is back to 4 way mode again.    Oh well, at least I have true analog movement as well as switching from 4-way to 8-way as well!

Any ideas, and I am all open.

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 10:21:39 pm »
You could try using a restrictor in the U360 mapping software. These settings are customized for the restrictors sold by Ultimarc, but you will probably be pretty close if you use on of them. Here is an excerpt from the site:
Quote
Use of maps when a restrictor is fitted:
When using a restrictor plate, provided you have told the software you have this fitted, a scale factor will be used which results in the joystick being able to travel to the edge of the defined map matrix, just as if there were no restrictor. But there will of course be cells in the matrix which are not accessible and you need to be aware of this when creating maps. You can test a map instantly using the test feature in UltraMap.

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2008, 06:10:39 am »
I essentially got the same results by picking a restrictor...without one enabled.    The problem is that the throw is just too confining.     That top *#@%)@ restrictor needs to be removed!    Problem is, I would have to do some serious damage to do so.    Hell I might do it anyway and if I screw it up, I would just rig something else.

As it stands, what alot of trouble.

By the way for those curious, yes the orginal untouched Ultrastik works Tron like a charm when only enabling the outer couple of arrows.    It is possible to get the stair step, but you almost have to try to do it.    This is pretty good.   I guess if one wants no possibility at all, you can go with only one arrow in the corners, but I think this sacrifices game play...if one thinks that the 8 way diagonals are all that important.

Here is a picture of the map.



One is almost inclined to go with the button on top mod posted here, but damn I would rather have the flight stick!!   

I am still working on it though, and all hope may not be lost.   

On a sided not, I put the microswitches from my other J sticks in and they work great.   For those that want to have the clicking feel AND the added benefit of not needing the wiring harness.   For example computer games that need the encoder commands and that don't recognize USB or other emulators that don't support it very well.   I tested this and it goes to every cell fine.   If anyone has a reason as to why this is a bad thing, let me know.   What a kick ass product!!


genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2008, 06:15:51 am »
A couple more angles

Full throw




aszurom

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2008, 01:24:19 pm »
I'm ignorant about the stick mechanicals you're using there, my only experience is with microswitched sticks.  But I'm going to ask some questions based in ignorance  ;D

1.  Are you going with magnetic to avoid the clicky sounds of a microswitch assembly? Or does that thing actually read analog input by virtue of how far the magnet is deflected over the plates below it?

2.  The rubber grommet centering thing is pretty neat.  Should have a decent feel to it.  Is that a big part of why you chose this stick to mod?

3.  Are you saying you're having a problem with the stick not having enough throw distance?  I could see that because the longer the shaft is beyond the fulcrum point of the stick (the grommet) then the less deflection of the top part of the stick is required to move the bottom to its limit.  So I'd think you'd want the underside shaft as short as possible to give you more throw.

4.  If you bail on the magnetic assembly and want to avoid microswitches I have a thought.  I used to have a waaaay old joystick that had a simple mechanical setup that I'm surprised isn't more prevalent today.  Basically, the shaft of the stick was steel with a ball on the bottom end.  This shaft was wired to ground.  Then there were 4 copper plates in a box that the ball would touch as the stick was moved.  These were wired to positive.  Served an identical function to microswitches but with zero moving parts aside from the stick itself.  Pretty much indestructible.  When thrown to a corner, the ball would short two side plates, giving you a diagonal.  Throw would be completely controllable by adjusting the size of the conductor plate box.

5.  Does anybody have pictures of the mechanics of the original TRON stick?


genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2008, 04:15:05 pm »
1.  I am going with magnetics because of the Ultrastik 360 from ultimarc.   It is able to change to a number of different ways, i.e.   4 way, 8 way, true analog, 4 way inverted for qbert..etc. etc..   Read up on Ultimarc.com.

2.  I chose this stick to mod because I ordered it being ignorant of how the original Tron worked EXACTLY.   I heard about problems in 8 way mode, but I thought it could be worked around if it was...and I think I have.   But yes, it being Happs, I like the design.

3. Yes the stick until now didn't have enough throw.   I think I have solved this...see below.    Though lowering the bottom chasis may give me some results, it also induces stabilty problems...etc.     Same for raising the stick.

4. Fanstastic idea, but software and hardware is the problem...I am too lazy for that.   Though who knows, I may tackle it in the future.

5. This can be found on another thread in this board, but basically there isn't a whole lot of difference.   The original tron had leaf switches, and also had a different kind of restrictor that acted like a 4 way, but had 8 way capabilty by it giving a little when pushed.    Which of course is the whole point of this excercise, to try to get some gameplay, while also keeping other functions available.

My goal is this.   A.  Keeping regular keyboard functions available for computer games.   B.  Analog movement for Flight games and Sinistar.   C.  Tron   D.   Some functionality for Top fire games as I see fit.

XXXXXXXXXXXXx

Now here is my new results.    I found a smaller magnet.  1/2 inch.   Though I feel it isn't small enough( a quarter inch just may be perfect), the effect is still much much better.     You have to really push to get the stair steeping in the tron level now.   

Also the magnet seems to stay just fine.  I played for a long time, and it still stayed dead center.   Perhaps I may supeglue or something as backup, but only if I can't find a 1/4 inch magnet.   If anyone knows where, please let me know!!




What I can do now.



Goal with smaller magnet.




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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2008, 06:07:17 pm »
5.  Does anybody have pictures of the mechanics of the original TRON stick?

Check out this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53406.0
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2008, 08:44:52 am »

What I can do now.



Goal with smaller magnet.





What would ideally solve the diagonal problem would be this:

The Ultrastik can be change from 4-way to 8-way etc before a game is launched using software, we need to go one step further and make the change while playing the game, e.g. make the Ultrastik switch from 8-way in the Grid Bugs & MCP Cone levels to 4-way in the Light Cycles & Tank levels.

I'm sure someone in the Software Forum could work this out for you, I haven't been reading up on the latest LED software but I know they can make start buttons flash when credits are available. In this case you need software to work out when you are on the Light Cycles level and switch the Ultrastik to a 4-way map.

Perhaps someone like arzoo could work out how to do this?


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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2008, 09:57:47 pm »
Bump...

> I found a smaller magnet.  1/2 inch

Any idea where to purchase such a device?

Thinking of making this mod to the HAPP heavy duty (adding Ultimarc U360 chassis) to get a heavy-duty analog/digital device and saw there were issues using the HAPP grommet with full-range of motion on analog.

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 09:18:28 am »
If I understand the question, you're looking for a powerful 1/2 inch magnet, you might try

www.rockler.com

They have some high power magnets that work fantastically and a quite small.

They are actually surprisingly powerful.

Bender

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 02:32:58 pm »
I love magnets

this guy has almost every size imaginable

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2009, 02:21:11 pm »
Ok to some folks that have asked I am bumping with my update pictures.

I am using the Disc of Tron restrictor and I am showing the difference between it and the stock heavy duty eightway.  Those millimeter's do make a difference!   How much...well being able to get to the corner arrow!!  Could only do the next to last outer rim before.

Also notice the Whynotpizza modification to my original design.

The end result is fantastic and I can finally call this done....unless I get a new Satan Hollow/Tron design color change.   No need to post that though.






genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2009, 02:24:01 pm »
Oh yeah and for those that don't know I ditched the smaller magnets.  No longer needed now that I have a restrictor that fits the purpose.

Bender

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2009, 05:27:47 pm »
hey genesim,

looks like you finally got that happ stick apart ;)

lookin good! :cheers:

genesim

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Re: *NEW* Happs Heavy Duty 8 way Flight Stick to Ultrastik MOD
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2009, 07:48:36 pm »
Thanks to your expertise!   Thank goodness one of us had the guts to force those brass posts off.