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Author Topic: Rotating monitor - Yet another take  (Read 19224 times)

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psychotech

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    • psychotech
Rotating monitor - Yet another take
« on: February 19, 2008, 11:59:39 pm »
Hello..

So many awesome rotating monitor projects going on at the moment. Great software controlled stuff, etc. U guys rule!

So, I just had to try and build one for myself too ;) It's just that I can't code worth **** (PHP/MySQL/JavaScript/etc. won't help me here..). So, gimme a semiautomatic and away I blow!

One thing though - might be I've missed too many threads - is that quite a few of those older great implementations haven't been too closely documented? Yes, I know, this is not that good a document either but if anyones interested, just ask for more info and I'll add the info to this thread.

(Semiautomatic? With a simple ON-ON switch you make the screen either horizontal or vertical. Simple logic. Even I can do this..)

So..

Here's my take at a (semiautomatic) rotating monitor.

---------------
Thanks to weisshaupt & Cornchip for documenting their builds ..Awesome ideas & great sources of inspiration !
---------------

Alright, it's some kind of a hybrid: semiautomatic LCD rotation with friction drive. (Still waiting for a suitable bicycle chain/wheel combination to come my way:) )

Some leftover MDF, wire and 2 microswitches and it's almost done? Add a DPDT switch (ON-ON) and it is.

! The bearing for this version is taken from a 165mm diameter wheel (2.95 €), 46mm deep, and is inserted/mounted in a hole drilled through three layers of 16mm MDF !

(Almost) everything in these pictures is actually upside down.. Keep that in mind ;)

12 pictures, you decide..

And it goes like this:


01. 19" HP LCD facing down with a 16mm MDF plate on top.. Four wheels to add some friction and small "L"-brackets to trigger the microswitches..


02. Closer.. Zebra wheels to help me ascertain theres absolutely no give/play in the bearing/mounting .. The actual mounting plate goes between the two spacers...


03. Another picture of the same stuff. And yes, it would work even without the wheels. There's no "play".. It's just that LCD's don't weight enough..


04. The LCD plate's axle goes here. So, it's the bearing with the microswitches in place and all wired for action. (Hey, this picture is from up ..so, actually just right......)


05. The wires from the switches seen in the above picture go to a "terminal strip" (whatever, it's a "sokeripalaliitin") .


06. The main mount seen from below. Motor up. Metal reinforced bearings center...


07. A closeup of the motor sandwiched between two pieces of 18mm pine (the motor is just about 18mms.. useable info..). The almost intact L-bracket secures the motor in place..


08. Well, it is upside down in the picture. And the "motorized" side stays in place.


09. Another angle of the same solution. And working like a charm.


10. Well, tried to take a picture of the solution. Hope it at least gives you ideas :)


11. Overall.. With the main Vertical/Horizontal switch in the picture.


12. Not "too much" slack in this implementation...

 
---------------
Yeah, I know, now I only need a cab to use this in...

..............?

Questions, ideas, etc. ?

weisshaupt

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 12:22:51 am »
Hey Psychotech,

Nice Mount.. much nicer than mine. Glad to see my hours of cussing that the thing and almost giving up yeilding some positive benefit for others..

If you want to do automatic, the little program I wrote for use with a Parallel port SHOULD work just fine with this..
you just need  to isolate the Power from the leads coming from the PC using that cute little secret motor driver..

iThe program is posted in my Ghost in the Machine project thread if you want to try it out..

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress!



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danny_galaga

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 02:31:26 am »


very nice engineering (",) i believe my machine fits your deinition of 'semi automatic'

heres my highly technical schematics:







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csa3d

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 08:18:20 am »
Awesome stuff.  This looks pretty simple.  Any chance you can post links to purchase the parts (switch, motor, drive wheel, main bearing, etc) for others to copy?  I'm assuming you picked a motor which doesn't turn at hyper speed and can handle the heavy load, so you didn't have to deal with slowing down the torque?

Thanks for sharing!  Still the missing piece to my project as well!

-csa

DoctorWHO

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 08:40:13 am »
Awesome stuff.  This looks pretty simple.  Any chance you can post links to purchase the parts (switch, motor, drive wheel, main bearing, etc) for others to copy?  I'm assuming you picked a motor which doesn't turn at hyper speed and can handle the heavy load, so you didn't have to deal with slowing down the torque?

Thanks for sharing!  Still the missing piece to my project as well!

-csa

Could you post wiring schematics too?
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Lutus

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 08:43:11 am »
A source for a simple motor is something I too would be interested in.
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psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 09:22:08 am »
!!

Thanks for the comments :)

weisshaupt, your thread & wiki documentation inspired me to try this. GREAT STUFF! ..also the fact that I really couldn't tell from the wiki picture how you actually did the motor mounting .. ;) Pretty happy with the mount ..and it can be used "upside down" too, in case I actually find the bicycle chain etc. or decide to do some kind of pulley later on. Not necessary though, this works great.

I'm pretty sure weisshaupt finds the motor & wheel quite familiar ..I ordered them from the Solarbotics.com webshop after seeing the Ghost in the Machine project thread! And about the motor driver & software: well see ..now that I have a "self-contained" working rotating monitor solution I think I should start "designing" an actual cab to put it in :)

danny_galaga, I totally forgot your solution, even though I remember visiting your site when I was building the Tomatocade. Anyway, that's a Great semi-automatic solution :)

And here's my highly technical schematic .. all done around an ON-ON switch..



csa3d, Thanks. Not only does it look simple, it IS ;) Maybe the hardest part was to fine tune the mounting so that there's no "slack".. (and that wasn't really too difficult, so...)

Anyway, for the parts:
Check out weisshaupts LCD mechanism at http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Rotating_Monitor and www.solarbotics.com for the motor and the drive wheel... (I'm using their Gear Motor 3 (GM3) which works really great)

"..can handle the heavy load.." There's no heavy load, just the opposite with this kind of mount. The main bearing works almost too great .. the small wheels at least add some friction :)

The main bearing is from a 165mm diameter wheel I found at a local home improvement store. Just sawed and filed off everything but the main bearing housing.... The wheel's axle was 10mm so I just bought some 10mm threaded rod and made a replacement axle out of that..

The switch I had bought earlier from somewhere local, but those should be quite easy to locate both on- and off-line..?


Not too many parts to add, just MDF, screws, spacers, etc..

DoctorWHO, see above...

Lutus, solarbotics.com GM2 or/and GM3 should both work nicely.

So, ......

javeryh

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 09:24:22 am »
This is awesome stuff!  I am gaining confidence that when it comes time for me to do this in the cab I'm currently building I'll be able to since so many other will have gone before me.  FYI, I'm planning on using a lazy susan to rotate mine - the ball bearings will provide an almost frictionless rotation and most lazy susans can handle a lot of weight.  I just have to make sure to line up the switches properly as well as figure out how to power the motor and then get it to talk to MaLa.   :cheers:

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2008, 09:31:21 am »
javeryh: Almost frictionless rotation  :o I was aiming for that ..and that's just what I got... So, I had to add the small wheels for at least some friction  :dizzy: The LCD just kept on spinning and spinning and ...

Check out weisshaupts software & the Secret motor driver ..

weisshaupt

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2008, 09:51:25 am »
also the fact that I really couldn't tell from the wiki picture how you actually did the motor mounting .. ;)


I will have to try and get a better schematic put up now that I have gotten good with sketch-up.  In the end, your mount is a prettier version of mine, but using almost exactly the same parts.  Though I think Javeryh's suggestion to use a lazy susan makes it even easier, and when (if) I build my next cab I will definitely go that route. (You can download a 3d sketchup drawing of that mechanism (well the whole cab actually)  in my Ghost in the machine Mark II thread)

The frictionless rotation is tricky. That little motor can't handle a lot of friction, and its brake mode is effective but not immediate.  That is why a computer controlled pulse to the motor works better to control the momentum of the monitor.. Have you tried mounting it at an angle yet? Or is your cab going to be a cocktail? The wheels are a good idea.  They probably add just enough friction without adding too much..




 
Pretty happy with the mount ..and it can be used "upside down" too, in case I actually find the bicycle chain etc. or decide to do some kind of pulley later on.

Actually, that giant wheel you mounted it to is acting just like a pulley...

The only thing I am contemplating in my redesing is to put a bicycle chain around the outside and use the GM motor with a Bicycle sproket attached - if I can figure out a good way to attach it....

« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 09:56:55 am by weisshaupt »
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csa3d

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2008, 10:06:51 am »
Nice, gonna order some parts today to get the ball rolling over my way.  Questions:

1. Did you upgrade to the "Regular Motor 2" from solobarics as suggested by the wiki link you provided or did you stick with the default one that comes with the GM3?
2. Are you running this off of 5v from the cpu power supply?  Did you need any other parts to regulate voltages?
3. Did you upgrade the rubber wheel like suggested in the wiki?
4. Are you planning to have a vertical mounted screen in the end?

Links to products mentioned above, for others (can you confirm parts?):

        Gear Motor 3
        Friction Wheel
        Regular Motor 2 upgrade for GM3

Mucho Gracias!
-csa

weisshaupt

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take...
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2008, 11:32:44 am »
Nice, gonna order some parts today to get the ball rolling over my way.  Questions:

1. Did you upgrade to the "Regular Motor 2" from solobarics as suggested by the wiki link you provided or did you stick with the default one that comes with the GM3?
2. Are you running this off of 5v from the cpu power supply?  Did you need any other parts to regulate voltages?
3. Did you upgrade the rubber wheel like suggested in the wiki?
4. Are you planning to have a vertical mounted screen in the end?

Links to products mentioned above, for others (can you confirm parts?):

        Gear Motor 3
        Friction Wheel
        Regular Motor 2 upgrade for GM3

Mucho Gracias!
-csa

When I was working on this,  I did get it working with the standard GM3 motor. It just seemded to be working too hard for me, so I upgraded.  I also had it working with the standard tire, but then upgrade to the extra grip tire. Its better, but I don't know if its required. (my original mechanism uses a pizza pie plate spraypainted with plasti-grip so the friction may be harder to achieve than when using wood)

My setup runns off of 5 v power from the PC, but its buffered via the Secret Modem Driver- which, among other things, provides diodes to prevent EMF from the motor from being sent back to the power supply and/or logic leads. If you wanted to isolate it, you could just get a 5 V wall wart  from Radio Shack and use that to provide the power.
“A government ... cannot have the right of altering itself. If it had, it would be arbitrary. It might make itself what it pleased; and wherever such a right is set up, it shews there is no constitution” - Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 05:33:59 pm »
Back again.

weisshaupt, yes the parts are almost the same, for obvious reasons ;) Thank you so very much for all the info :cheers: I don't know about the lazy susan as the wheel bearing works great as it is ..maybe with another build. And I haven't even started with this really, oh well  ::)

About the friction and angled use: I might yet have to fine tune the friction (maybe lose the small wheels, reduce - almost eliminate - friction) we'll see, someday.

I left the main axle (unnecessarily) long just to be able to mod the system if needed with a bicycle chain solution.. So far haven't found suitable sprockets and so have yet to figure out the actual attachment too.  Was actually thinking about using two sprockets: a small one on the motor and the biggest I can find attached to the main axle under the monitor mount.. So, if and when you figure out a durable sprocket-wheel to GM2/GM3 mounting solution, please do remember to document it !!

csa3d,
1. I'm using the stock GM3 motor ..but bought one RM2 "just in case". No need for it at the moment
2. Since I haven't even started on the main cab I'm at the moment running it from a regulated variable V wall wart. Can't get 5V out of it, but have tested with 3V, 4.5V and 6V - 4.5V seems just about (almost) right.. A bit of laboring going "up" with all cables hanging from the monitor.. I'm sure 5V will be just what the doctor ordered. The final power source ..?
3. I'm using the basic GM Series Plastic Wheel with no upgrades. The wheel works fine on unpainted MDF surface. I had to add a few drops of super glue to it as it seemed to me that the silicon tires might not stay in place on the rim..
4. Monitor will be angled ..See the attached videos: +/- 15 degrees to that... ave to design a cabinet first.. ;)

So.
First real world test with all the cables hanging from the monitor.
The monitor mount is sideways (shouldn't really affect anything?).
All test were done at 4.5V.

You can see and hear the impact of those cables' weight at 4.5V, with 6V that's not a concern ..with some cable management and 5V I'm sure it'll be just right...
The switch used in these tests is actually an ON-OFF-ON version due to my laziness. I will be using an ON-ON switch, which is way cooler :) The OFF part is really just another unnecessary click between ..there's no use for it.

Three low quality videos:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzzrHOgkJ_4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiWr__xzu4k[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJWhs2R5ruQ[/youtube]

Comments, questions, criticism?

DaOld Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 05:50:14 pm »
Looks very good!
 :applaud: :applaud:

Where did you get those small casters? I cant seem to find any that small.

javeryh

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2008, 06:02:06 pm »
Unbelievable.  I'm starting to think I'll be able to pull this off this summer - I LOVE the videos and all of the pictures.  Keep 'em coming!!!   :cheers:

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 06:09:37 pm »
 :o found my next project! Absolutely lost for words! :notworthy:
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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 06:13:52 pm »
I'm upset by the lack of T-molding in this project. Other than that - nice tutorial.

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2008, 06:48:58 pm »
..!

Disclaimer:
I reserve the right to call this solution a "just another prototype" in case it fails before the actual cab is done  ... ;)

DaOld Man, thanks! Your rotating monitor thread has been interesting and has given me ideas.. Thanks for them too! Those small wheels I found at yet another local discount-store / home improvement center. 1" wheel diameter ..actually seems they're made, or at least distributed, by habo.com here..

javeryh, thanks. I was actually aiming for an even simpler solution mounting wise but that's what I ended up with, heh. Works for me. Do document your build and the rotation solution. "Keep 'em coming!!!" - Not too much more to post on this simple build. I'll take pictures if you want to know more of a specific detail or ...

waveryder, thanks! (I'm starting to think I might be repeating myself..?) Just hoping someone finds this thread useful/inspirational/whatever.. Another take etc. Keep on building!

leapinlew, so sorry, you're absolutely right...
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=75&zenid=6392850bda65cf6ffb43912191be9229

Now that that's virtually taken care of ..thanks :)

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2008, 06:52:49 pm »
I'm speechless.  :applaud:
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csa3d

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2008, 07:22:20 pm »
Looks very good!
 :applaud: :applaud:

Where did you get those small casters? I cant seem to find any that small.

I had a tough time locating those also, and also a good online resource for the 6 pole on-on switch (are those also called DPDT or SPDT?).  I'm a big fan of making a shopping list for others to be lazy and copy ;)

As for those videos, I was really against the whole concept of a friction motor a few months back, but after seeing the videos and how you used ordinary cherry switches with 45 brackets as limiters, I think you're onto something good.  I would assume the upgraded motor might not struggle as much personally.  Might help in the long run, not sure how timeless those mini motors will be.

Totally great updates, do keep us informed!
-csa

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2008, 08:33:13 pm »
..

DoctorWHO, Thanks. Now, start building :)

csa3d, actually it's my mistake on the first post: meant six pin ON-ON switch, most of which usually are DPDT (as in Double Pole Double Throw ..or is it..?) Anyway ..you know the kind. I've heard these switches sometimes called "phase changing switches" also - speaker builders - and yes, that's just what happens here along with ... ;)

Yeah, the stock motor struggles a bit going "up" with 4.5V and the angle I tested it at but then again, I'm not sure about the final angle and with this mounting solution I have the option to either feed it 5V from the PSU or 4.5V or 6V from the wall wart, reduce the number of, or altogether remove, the small wheels or some combination of them.. I tested the rotation with 6V also: it's quite fast, but no struggle "climbing" and no ill effects at either "closing point". The added friction from the wheels and the cherry switches & metal L-brackets really help. No "bouncing" either at 6V.

"I was really against the whole concept of a friction motor.." Me too :) Just had to try.. It works, though. Happy with it now, but as I wrote earlier, I might yet go with a bicycle chain and sprocket-wheels kinda solution. In no hurry, time and space for improvement yet. I have the upgrade motor also, you know "just in case" (Just had to include it in the order at the current €/$ rate) ..just haven't gotten around to testing it yet ..probably won't try it before I come up with a cab design I'd like to build ......... I'm not holding my breath ;)

Anyway, yet another take.. Had to build something ..hopefully someone gets inspiration/ideas/whatever :)

DoctorWHO

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2008, 02:29:15 am »

DoctorWHO, Thanks. Now, start building :)


You can bet on that. I was looking (or should I say lurking? ;D) for an easy and feasible way to rotate a monitor and yours seems the way to go for me. Since space is my major problem, I'm deciding between a wood-looking cocktail or slim upright (something like Knievel's Woody but slimmer), but I wanted to play vertical games the way they were meant to be played.

When you posted the parts you used, I did a little research and found an online italian reseller (yes, I'm in Italy) for Solarbotics:
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/8_9/products_id/76 GM3 Motor
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_39/products_id/66 Wheel
and
http://www.robot-italy.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_39/products_id/110 these could be good replacements for the casters

Also spotted a monitor that could suit my needs. http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/578574/art/samsung/syncmaster-961bf-19-tft-s.html

So I have no excuse now. Just have to figure out the cab style  ;D


There's no point in being a grown up, if you can't be childish sometimes...

DaOld Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2008, 05:02:57 am »
Just in case you guys are interested:
Since this is a manual switch type mechanism, I have written a small program that will check to see which direction the monitor is turned when you turn on your arcade.
It will then orientate mala (or glaunch) to match the monitor position.
Corn Chip is testing it for me (how's that coming along anyway, CC?)
It will require the addition of two more microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.
Simply put, the two additional switches will tell the program, through the printer port, which way the monitor is turned. The program will then turn mala to suit it and then start mala. (The mala screen will always be correct on startup).
Let me know if anyones interested.

psychotech

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2008, 06:55:29 am »
DoctorWHO,  yeah ;)

Quote
So I have no excuse now. Just have to figure out the cab style
My words exactly!

As it seems that Robot Italy is out of stock.. Prior to placing your order, check out how much it'd be ordered from the main solarbotics site (€ is still quite good ..and no taxes or customs on small orders..?) I couldn't find the parts here in Finland myself so the easy answer was Canada ;) True to myself, I chose the cheapest shipping method which, according to the website, takes about 2-3 weeks and is not traceable etc. The package was delivered three work days later on my doorstep........ Just about an hour ago (I mean today!!) I got a confirmation email that my order has been shipped and should be here soon. I received the package a week ago...?

If you'd decide on a cocktail cab, I'm sure this solution - see danny_galaga's rotating cocktail also - will work with no additional tweaking or anything. No need to make the mount "tight" either, just add small wheels and you should be all set  :dizzy:

Anyway, that Ball Caster thing seems quite interesting. If you buy it, please, do tell more !?

DaOld Man, that sounds really interesting!

So, one ON-ON DPDT switch, 4 microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.. Of course I'm interested :) I'm sure most of us are, for that matter..?

(Oh. I see... You're just trying to lure us all into the realm of full software control.. step by step ;)  )

Actually.. Please, do tell more!

csa3d

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2008, 07:06:10 am »
Just in case you guys are interested:
Since this is a manual switch type mechanism, I have written a small program that will check to see which direction the monitor is turned when you turn on your arcade.
It will then orientate mala (or glaunch) to match the monitor position.
Corn Chip is testing it for me (how's that coming along anyway, CC?)
It will require the addition of two more microswitches, two 100 ohm resistors, and a DB25 (printer) plug.
Simply put, the two additional switches will tell the program, through the printer port, which way the monitor is turned. The program will then turn mala to suit it and then start mala. (The mala screen will always be correct on startup).
Let me know if anyones interested.

Ok guys, I'm ready to dive in full tilt on this.  Please supply an online shopping list and a step by step for dummies for this full software control version. :)  So far, the upgrade G3 motor/wheel combo from solobarics is winning the race.  Now if there was a shopping list for the hbridge, and other misc. electronic parts and switches I think it would be a wonderful addition.  I'm interested in the software, but feeling like at this time, I am not informed enough to tackle this myself.  If anyone wants an apprentice, let me know.  I'm ready to start on a solution for mine.

-csa

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2008, 07:19:44 am »
csa3d, you REALLY need to read weisshaupt and DaOld Man's threads & the wiki on rotating monitor.

See these threads:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72750.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75411.0

This here build is a semi-automatic that's easily transformed into a fully software controlled solution. I just like to have the mounting / motor / drive system done before diving any deeper... What use is software without the actual mechanism it's supposed to control........................

Shopping list? above links & www.solarbotics.com ..maybe even google :)

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2008, 07:26:26 am »
Mala can turn the monitor for you.
You will have to interface your motor to teh printer port.
Check out the thread about my rotating monitor project, also the one that koz319 did.
Koz319 was working on a mala plugin that would rotate the monitor and the mame screen based on the game's orientation.
I havent heard back from Koz319 in a long time, I hope all is well with him.
I have been trying to learn some C++ and Delphi to make a mala plugin that will do what I want. Loadman has hinted that he would make me one, I may take him up on it.
But for now, the program I have written is to be started instead of mala on power up.
The program (im calling it rotmala.exe now, but that name will change.) looks at which input is made, then sets mala's orientation according to that.
It then starts mala and rotmala ends.
If you are going to interface your motor to the printer port, you will only need two switches, since you will be taking the switches back to the printer port as inputs, rotmala.exe can look at those inputs.
Im at work right now, when I get home I will post rotmala.exe. (Its not finished, but it should work, just gotta put some help screens on it.)


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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2008, 07:41:21 am »
Ok,

Sorry to offend.  Believe it or not, I have read both threads in full; both are chock-full of good information.  I surely can go through both again, and try to piece together the information needed to make it work.  Obviously others with minor electrical background understand better.  Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc.  Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)

I can probably figure a lot of it out for myself, and I do appreciate what has been previously put out as public info.

Thanks
-csa

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2008, 08:16:18 am »
DaOld Man: Yeah, I've been following your progress on the rotating monitor solution, no surprise. Awesome stuff! Totally forgot the Koz319's thread, but have his software etc. downloaded.. just seems that I never get around to even opening those files. Well, probably have to, sooner or later..

And yes please, do post the file. Now that the mount/motor part is more or less taken care of .. it's about time to take a peek at the software solutions too :) Live and learn?

csa3d: NOT! No offence. W(h)ell, I don't understand half the stuff on those threads either and I know I'll have to read them again (and again) if I'm going to make a fully software contolled solution that I understand the workings of. As it is, a semi-automatic solution suits me right at the moment. Full software control is a thing to aim for.. sooner or  (probably) later  :banghead:

Quote
without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc.
Yeah, I wish that too from time to time  ;D But then again, would this hobby be worth anything if you got all the instructions ready-made for you ..IKEA, anyone?  :dunno

Software or not, first you'll need a working mounting solution and drive mechanism anyway, I'd think?

PS. Semi-automatic. Works. Nicely. Progress. Later.

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2008, 09:10:19 am »
Ok,

Sorry to offend.  Believe it or not, I have read both threads in full; both are chock-full of good information.  I surely can go through both again, and try to piece together the information needed to make it work.  Obviously others with minor electrical background understand better.  Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc.  Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)

I can probably figure a lot of it out for myself, and I do appreciate what has been previously put out as public info.

Thanks
-csa

csa: I'm in the same boat as you.  I don't know anything about electronics, motors, voltage, etc. but I definitely want to give this a try.  My contribution (when I get around to it) will be trying as best as I can to create a guide for dummies with parts list and everything.  First, I think I'm going to follow psychotech's example and just get everything working with a switch - it seems (sort of) easy enough to do.  It doesn't seem like it would be too tough to make the jump from that to something that interfaces with the computer for automatic rotation which is my ultimate goal. 

Maybe I'm way off but wouldn't you just use the same wires that go into the switch and wire them to the printer port and let software do the rest?  I will be using MaLa as my front end - hopefully it will be as easy as installing a plug-in).

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2008, 09:31:27 am »
Ok, here is a couple of screen shots of rotmala.exe
When you first run the program it will open up the setup mode. (First pic).
You need to set the paths to mala.exe and mala.ini.
Then you need to decide what to do if both inputs are made (stuck switch) or if neither input is made (monitor is between switches.)
You can choose whether to start mala horizontal or vertical.
You can also place a check on "display warning." If you do, and rotmala encounters a input error, it will display a box and allow you to hit any key to go ahead and run mala, or wait to enter setup mode again.
Next you need to choose which inputs your switches are connected to.
Next, choose if the inputs go low when the switch is made (to ground) or if they go high when the switch is made.
Printer port inputs normally "float" high. Its a lot simpler to bring them to ground through a 100 ohm resistor.
Ground pins are 18 thru 25. I suggest you tie all these pins together. Your limut switch will attach to one of these grounds pins, then go through a resistor back to one of the input pins.
Pin 11 on the port is inverted, so I dont suggest you use that one for this project.
Now set your printer port address. You can get this from control panel. (Device manager/ports/lpt port)
Its most likely 888 decimal or 0378 (You can switch between decimal and hex display)
You can look at the status of your inputs by pressing the "Refresh" button in the current input status box.
When you are done, save it and exit.
Next time you run rotmala, it should start your mala based on the input status.
Note: you will need to install a small program called port95nt, this is a driver for the printer port.
You can get it here
After you set up rotmala, a file called "rotatemala.set" will be created. This contains the settings you just choose for rotmala.
The second screen shot is it. You can run setup again by opening this file with notepad, change run setup =no to run setup =yes. Or you can delete rotatemala.set
When you start rotmala, setup mode will run.

So, download and install port95nt, then unzip this file to where you can find it easily.
Im sure someone can write us a mala plugin that will do the same as this program.
Let me know what you think.






EDITED To include latest version of Mrotate2. 06/26/09
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 11:23:51 pm by DaOld Man »

DaOld Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2008, 09:41:38 am »
Sorry about the misspellings, Ive been up all night..
Also, on the rotmala setup screen, in the "actions to take if both inputs....")
The choices say start glaunch vertical or horizontal. That should read start mala.
I am also developing this program to use with glaunch, I forgot to change those two labels.
When you try to run rotmala, if it asks for an ocx or dll file you dont have, let me know, I can post them.
VB6 (the language I wrote this in) requires certain dll files. When I package a program to install, I include this files.
But this is just the executable.
So the executable may not run, but no big deal if it wont, just have to place the proper dll's in your windows/system32 folder.
Have fun, and I'd like to say you guys are really doing a lot of professional work here. Your projects are really great.
Hopefully I will get back on my project soon, but I wonder, what's next?

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2008, 09:44:29 am »
One more note, then Im off to bed..
The rotatemala.set file tells you that you need dlportio.dll.
This is not correct. I must have had my head up my $$# when I wrote that.
You need to download and install port95nt.exe.

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2008, 10:10:25 am »
Ultimately, I was hoping for something as strait forward as something you'd find on Makezine.com, without lots of expanation, and clear steps 1,2,3 etc.  Maybe I'm asking for too much. ::)

csa: I'm in the same boat as you.  I don't know anything about electronics, motors, voltage, etc. but I definitely want to give this a try. 
Maybe I'm way off but wouldn't you just use the same wires that go into the switch and wire them to the printer port and let software do the rest?  I will be using MaLa as my front end - hopefully it will be as easy as installing a plug-in).

Hi All,

My original intent was to document my rotating mechanism well enough that anyone could copy it, which obviously I have failed at. Probably because I know what I know and make the stupid assumption everyone else does too. If anyone has questions, I am perfectly happy to answer them in PM or here in the forum, and to use that info to better my descriptions and WIKI. I can also add glossary words into the Wiki... I just need to know what parts weren't understood..
 
My control program is just a separate BAT that can be called form the command line and which 3D arcade/emulaxian calls for me. I also call it at boot up to just tell it to put the screen in the horizontal position.   It looks like DaOldMan is writting a similar program/plugin for MALA. Once those pieces are done, there isn't a lot to this really.

Solarbotics sells the motors/and PCB board to drive the motor. The is some simple soldering required- and I stress that- Simple. Buy a socket for the chip (also carried by solarbotics) and you would have to work really really hard to screw it up.  I can post a list of the other useful stuff (a DB 25 parallel port to RJ45 adapter - though you could just cut open a printer cable and solder those wires as well) The instuctions provided by solarbotics are pretty complete and well written IMO..http://downloads.solarbotics.net/pdf/kit10.pdf

After that you need 5 wires to be run to the PCB  Board from the printer port. 1 to tell it to go right, 1 to tell it to go left, 1 to read switch 1, 1 to read switch 2, and a ground to current will flow.  The only thing that would be really useful if if DaOldman and I both agreed on a pinout for the DB25 so both our programs will work with the same wiring..


As with anything, group feedback is important in the evolution of these things, and I think psycotech's microswitch and casters approch and javeryh's lazy susan ideas are both improvements on my original design.  I will  update the Wiki to reflect these ideas, and provide links to other implementations. But then, its a wiki, so anyone can improve the page... and should!
“A government ... cannot have the right of altering itself. If it had, it would be arbitrary. It might make itself what it pleased; and wherever such a right is set up, it shews there is no constitution” - Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2008, 10:26:36 am »
weisshaupt: I dont think you failed at all.
Your writeup and information is very valuable, and if it wasnt for me already building an H drive (which is better for the heavy motor I will be using), I would use your circuitry.
Dont sell yourself short.. I know we all appreciate the work you have done.
As far as getting with you on the same inputs, my rotmala can be programmed to use any of the input pins.
Just run the setup mode and click the pins you are using..
Rotmala just automatically sets up your mala screen when you first power on, based on your current monitor position. (i thought it would be good for people who manually turn their monitors.)
It ends there.
Koz319 made a plugin that rotates the screen based on the game you have chosen in mala.
The only problem with his plugin was that you couldnt change its parameters.
It always looks for the inputs going high, which is a little more difficult to do, IMHO. Plus he limited his to pins 2 and 3 for outputs to the drive, and pins 12 and 13 for inputs.
He was supposed to be working on a version that allowed you to set it up, much like I did with rotmala, but I havent heard anything else from him.

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2008, 10:31:19 am »
CSA asked for a shopping list, and the thought occured that he might not be the only one who would like one..Of course this it not an endorsement of any particular vendor and I am not affiliated in any way with solarbotics.. they just happen to have the parts I used :>)

From Solarbotics:

GM3 motor (easier to mount than the GM2)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm3/
The Regular Motor 2 upgrade
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/rm2/
The mounting Bracket
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmb39/
A wheel
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmpw/
A Extra Grip Tread (it is a friction drive after all- the more tire that meets the road)
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gmtt/

And then for the Electronics you need:
A Chip socket:
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/dc-16_pin/
The secret Motor Driver Kit
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/k_smd/

And of course a soldering iron and some solder. The Chip holder isn't required, but if you are a novice at soldering its a good idea. Too much heat on that IC and you could bust it. Solder the socket to the PBC and that can't happen. Plus if you wire something wrong and blow out he chip, you can just put another one it, rather than trying to desolder it or buy another kit. 

For wiring I used a CAT 5 (ethernet) cable. I have my own crimping tools, but you can cut one in half and just solder the open ends to the board.

Then you need a DB25 to RJ45 converter..
Similar to this one..
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchDetail.asp?productID=805
“A government ... cannot have the right of altering itself. If it had, it would be arbitrary. It might make itself what it pleased; and wherever such a right is set up, it shews there is no constitution” - Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2008, 10:47:27 am »
weisshaupt: I dont think you failed at all.

As far as getting with you on the same inputs, my rotmala can be programmed to use any of the input pins.

I think the problem is I assumed too much knowledge on behalf of the reader -- some folks don't really want to know how or why it works. They just want to know which wire goes where, and I assumed they could figure it out from what I wrote... which given the comments, they are having a difficult time doing. At least a more difficult time than I intended....  :>)

The configurability is cool, but with great power comes great responsiblity ...

It might make sense to come up with a standard pinout that your program uses by default,
Koz319's pinout sounds fine to me.. and I can modify my little program to mimic it.  That way if we put a wiring diagram in the Wiki, your program, Koz319's program and my program will all work "out of the box"

Also, are you incorporating any controls in your program for motor speed?  The hard limits provided by Psychotech's switches would have been disasterous in my implementation.  My monitor is 20inchs AND bottom heavy.  With a larger motor like yours, speed/braking probably will not be an issue, but with these little hobby motors, its a different story. At full speed, my monitor would have hit the hard limit and BOUNCED! Pulseing the "go left" and "go right" leads from your program with different duty cycles  will allow the motor to alternately move and brake, keeping any rotational momentum under control... maybe a box where you select a duty-cycle period in seconds, and a slider that goes from 0-100%? Obviously not needed for your implementation, but others will probably need it, and you seem to be WAY better at coding than I... 


Also, I haven't played with MALA much.. its a bit off topic, but could someone direct me to information as to why MALA seems to be the front end of choice?

“A government ... cannot have the right of altering itself. If it had, it would be arbitrary. It might make itself what it pleased; and wherever such a right is set up, it shews there is no constitution” - Thomas Paine, Rights of Man

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2008, 11:21:08 am »
weisshaupt:  I definitely don't mean to offend anyone by saying I want an easier-to-follow solution/example.  I read your Ghost In The Machine write-up several times (unbelievably sick job by the way) and it's very very helpful.  I do want to know how and why it works as well - it's just that a "stick this wire here" explanation is what someone like me needs to get started.  I make the analogy that it's probably like trying to teach a 3 year old that 2+2=4.  There's no simpler way to explain it other than 2+2=4 and you want to bang your head against the wall when they just can't grasp the most basic of concepts.  I'm that 3 year old when it comes to this stuff.  The coolness factor can't be denied though so I'm willing to muddle through it (and torture smarter people such as yourself with questions along the way!).

Oh, I use MaLa because it's very easy to set up and it supports the U360 map plug-in that fatfingers wrote.  There is no more guesswork with the controls - I go from Galaga to Street Fighter to Q*bert to Pac-man and it's all seamless to the user.  It is also totally skinnable/customizable and there is excellent user support on these forums from loadman and others).  Adding an automatic rotating monitor would just about make everything ideal. 

When I think about first loading Street Fighter and having the monitor automatically turn horizontal and the controls automatically switch to 8-way and then quitting and loading Pac-man and having the monitor automatically turn vertical and the controls automatically switch to 4-way I can't help but smile.  Being user-friendly and looking factory-made are the keys to a great cab, IMO.

 :cheers:

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2008, 01:56:04 pm »
Also, I haven't played with MALA much.. its a bit off topic, but could someone direct me to information as to why MALA seems to be the front end of choice?

My personal opinion is because of ease of setup, the ability to light controls with animation, and the ability to automatically control u360 stick.  All the hardware advances made over the past year or so the software application seems to handle quite well.  I'm sure other FE's do the same, but I've found no reason to have to look further myself.

-csa

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Re: Rotating monitor - Yet another take... - VIDEO update
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2008, 02:31:12 pm »
weisshaupt:  I definitely don't mean to offend anyone by saying I want an easier-to-follow solution/example. 

No offense taken.. I just really wanted to leave a clear trail behind, and I am disappointed that I failed in the attempt. I will see if I can't get a better step by step put together for the electronics end of it, though I think we need to see a few more attempts before we will know what the "best" mounting method is (hint: not mine) 

And if DaOldMan writes his program with Speed control, I think I may try switching over to Mala-- one of the few reasons I uses 3Darcade was it 1) does that really cool rotating cab thing 2) allowed me to call whatever command lines I wanted  when I started MAME (and allowed me to insert Mameinfo information into the command line)

Of course, that would mean I would need to purchase u360 sticks....
“A government ... cannot have the right of altering itself. If it had, it would be arbitrary. It might make itself what it pleased; and wherever such a right is set up, it shews there is no constitution” - Thomas Paine, Rights of Man