Howdy! Planning 1st cabinet. . .

[Zobeid]

Howdy do!

I've been playing MacMAME on my computer for several years, and even got a HotRod which I hacked so it would work properly with my Mac.  But I think the time has finally come to go for a cabinet.  I figure I can make room if I chuck out enough other pieces of boring old furniture.

I'm deep into research now.  I've got some pretty specific ideas about what I want, and I've also got a couple of things I'm having trouble deciding.  Maybe some of you can help me with those.

I know I want a cabinet that is sized and styled like the old classic arcade machines I remember.  I don't want a monster machine with a 30-inch monitor, control panel the size of a coffee table, eight joysticks, a trackball, couple of spinners, light gun, etc. . .   I'm sure they work fine, but that's not for me.

I'm trying to come up with a reasonably versatile control layout that fits within, say, 24X8" space, or maybe 24X10".  Two joysticks , a spinner, eight or ten game buttons, and the minimum of admin buttons.

I have zero interest in fighting or beat-em-up games, so I don't need the full six or seven button layout per player.  I decided I can live without a trackball, too.  But I am very keen on some kind of 4-way/8-way switchable sticks.  I'm trying to decide now between the OMNI-Stik Prodigy Retro Edition or the UltraStick 360.

The US360 is obviously way more versatile.  I could play Star Wars, I could play Q*Bert. . .  It's tempting.  But those things seem pretty complicated to configure, both physically and in the software.  The Prodigy looks just about foolproof.  I've read that it's a short-throw stick, which sounds OK to me.  And it looks good without one of those silly plastic dust washers.  But. . .  No Star Wars, no Q*Bert, and probably Sinistar wouldn't be too good with it.  So I just don't know.

I've been playing MacMAME all this time. . .  So I have no experience with PC software or MAME front-ends, I don't know how they work.  How many admin buttons do I actually need on my machine?  I'm guessing. . .   pause/select/exit?  (Plus P1, P2 and some kind of coin drop of course.)  I'm sure I will have a wireless keyboard for the more complicated admin functions, so I'm just looking for basic navigation here.

The only other big question I'm turning over in my head is a monitor.  I'm no fan of arcade monitors, I want something high-res that will make vector games look good.  So I'm thinking computer monitor, I'm thinking 22" CRT or else a 19" or 20" LCD.  I've talked to one custom builder who prefers to use LCDs, and I've talked to another one who prefers CRTs for their "better picture".  Huh?  When did you ever see a CRT with a better picture than a LCD?  I know LCDs sometimes have issues with their black level or with motion smearing, but I love their brightness and sharpness.  I've loved playing MAME on my 22" Cinema Display, but it cost arm+leg and may not be a typical LCD, so. . .   Once again, I dunno.

I do have a dark corner I can put the machine in, for whatever that's worth.   

[javeryh]

Welcome to the boards!  Some things to consider:

- you might not like fighting games but your friends might.  Adding 2 more buttons per player opens your cabinet up to many more games.  I'm not huge into fighter (I like them) but when my friends get together it's all anyone wants to play because matches are over quick and everyone can get a turn pretty fast.

- ditto with the trackball.  Golden Tee is another friend favorite and probably gets the most play time on my cab.

- the U360 is so unbelievably easy to set up.  I have ZERO computer skills and it wasn't a problem.  Plus, certain front ends switch the maps on the fly depending on the type of game chosen - this is invaluable, IMO.  My first cabinet has 4/8 way T-Stik Plus joysticks which work fine but no one can seem to grasp the concept of when to switch them (or how) and they ask a million questions.  With the U360 you can switch from Pac-man to Q*bert to Street Fighter to Galaga without configuring a thing.  On my first cabinet, all of theose would just get played with an 8-way because people can't be bothered to switch (nor do they know).   I can never go back.

- I use Exit (to front end), Player 1 Start, Player 2 Start and Pause as my admin buttons.  Coins are handled via a coin door and the coin door return button which I rigged to act like an "Insert Coin" button.  YMMV on admin buttons though - it's definitely a personal preference.

- As for monitors, LCDs are typically considered "too sharp" so older games like Pac-man don't look quite right whereas a CRT arcade monitor will look more authentic.  I like the look of CRTs better but my last two cabs were built with LCD because of the cost, weight and the fact that I could build a "slim" cabinet instead of a bulky one.  Again, YMMV - it's a personal preference.

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Welcome ...

First, let me congratulate you on resisting the temptation to build the "one cabinet to rule them all". I prefer tighter designs over monster frankenpanels.

The control dilemma will haunt you, but I'm sure that folks will help you out vis-a-vis configuring a U360 (I don't have one, so am not much use there).

A nice LCD is a good choice for a MAME cab, so long as you don't run around disrespecting CRTs too much. 

Be sure to check out the wiki, FAQ & Links Of Interest and, of course, Project Arcade.

 

[Zobeid]

- As for monitors, LCDs are typically considered "too sharp" so older games like Pac-man don't look quite right whereas a CRT arcade monitor will look more authentic.

MacMAME has an OpenGL smoothing option so it blurs the display and relieves the severe jaggies.  I had to assume MAME on the PC has some similar option. . . right?  Right??  I would not want to play on my Cinema Display without smoothing, it would be harsh.  (I can't imagine it would look all that great on a hi-res CRT either, as far as that goes.)

Some earlier versions also had a "filter" option that introduced simulated grain and scan lines, it looked pretty realistic.  But I don't see that option anymore, I don't know what happened to it.

[javeryh]

- As for monitors, LCDs are typically considered "too sharp" so older games like Pac-man don't look quite right whereas a CRT arcade monitor will look more authentic.

MacMAME has an OpenGL smoothing option so it blurs the display and relieves the severe jaggies.  I had to assume MAME on the PC has some similar option. . . right?  Right??  I would not want to play on my Cinema Display without smoothing, it would be harsh.  (I can't imagine it would look all that great on a hi-res CRT either, as far as that goes.)

Some earlier versions also had a "filter" option that introduced simulated grain and scan lines, it looked pretty realistic.  But I don't see that option anymore, I don't know what happened to it.

yeah, there are effects like adding scan lines and stuff you can tinker with to get it close to CRT-looking but for some people close isn't good enough.

[Jdurg]

The only advice I will give is to make sure you are happy with your results.  Don't rush it just for the sake of getting it done.  I thought I was done with my Control Panel, but when I stepped back and saw all the flaws in the build, I scrapped the entire thing and started over from scratch.  This time around, it's turning out perfect!

So take your time, make sure that you have no regrets over stuff you did, or didn't do, and have patience.   

[Zobeid]

After thinking it over for a while, I've managed to make a few actual decisions. . .

I'm definite that I want the LCD monitor.  Hopefully I can get one with good black levels and a fast response time. . .   I have enough experience playing games on a LCD that I'm sure it's not going to bother me.

After waffling a lot on over joysticks, I've decided on the U360.  With all the praise heaped on it, who am I to buck the trend?  Should be great for Q*Bert and Sinistar.  I imagine probably not so great for Star Wars, but at least it should be possible to play it.

Control panel layout. . .   After much experimenting, here's my latest iteration:



No trackball.  I weighed the value of a trackball to me and decided I could live without it.  A spinner, on the other hand, is a necessity.

Cabinet styling. . . .   I'm thinking woodgrain here.  There were a few classic arcade games with wood grain cabinets: Zaxxon, Frogger, Phoenix.  I always thought they looked good.  Example:




Something I'm still figuring out. . . .  Quarters, tokens or NovaGem pushbuttons?



My head tells me the NovaGem would save money, save weight, and be less hassle all around.  My heart says a working coin door would be so much cooler.

[wp34]

I used MacMame at first but have since switched to Windows.  The Windows version is more difficult to configure but not terribly so.  It seems you have more flexibility as well.  The big thing I like is that I have much less issues with game compatibility but that may be more to do with the Romset I am using.

I have one U360 I am currently testing.  It has a different feel I am still getting used to.  It is really more of an issue with Fighters.  Everything else is wonderful.  What I really, really like is how it works with Mala and FatFinger's U360 plugin.  With this configuration the proper map is automatically downloaded based on the game you are playing.  It makes playing 4-way games (such as PAC Man and DK) much more enjoyable.  Same with 2-way games such as Defender and Stargate.  It really is easy to configure.

[Zobeid]

I used MacMame at first but have since switched to Windows.  The Windows version is more difficult to configure but not terribly so.  It seems you have more flexibility as well.  The big thing I like is that I have much less issues with game compatibility but that may be more to do with the Romset I am using.

I figure support for configuring the U360s, and the range of front ends available, are enough reason to go with a Windows box.  (Plus MacMAME isn't being developed anymore!)  It's just easier to use what everyone else is using, rather than try to blaze my own trail.

However, it'll be the first time I've had a Windows box in my house since, hmm. . .   1998, I think.

What I really, really like is how it works with Mala and FatFinger's U360 plugin.  With this configuration the proper map is automatically downloaded based on the game you are playing.

That sounds good to me.  I like the idea of configuring it once and then letting the front-end handle it from then on.

[Loafmeister]

Not trying to change your mind on the trackball, but don't forget they have another purpose, they can also act as a mouse within windows, which removes the need to have a mouse tucked in somewhere.  Pretty cool to be able to do light admin stuff using the control panel.

[protokatie]

OK.. RANDY T OF GGG! Is there any way you could get/make these things that had a real slot in them to take any coin that will fit and have a small switch positioned so the coin would activate that switch? I see what this does, you hit the coin return to "simulate" entering a coin, but is there a way to make something very similar that had a slot that was "coin accepting" and a switch that would trip if a coin/flat-head screwdriver/long fingernail was inserted?

I was going to make my "coin acceptor" out of a piece of red translucent plastic, with a slot (coin sized) cut into it, with a small happ or similar switch on the other side that the coin would hit when pushed past the plastic. Is there any way, Randy, that you could make a simple thing like this. I am sure it would sell well, and I would be willing to pay 20 bucks a pop for such a simple "coin acceptor" (IE 40 bucks for two)


...awaits to hear from the great Randy about the plausability of this idea...

[wp34]

You can use the U360 as a mouse.  The driver has a mouse-mode you can download to the joystick.  I've played with it a little and it works quite well. 

If you are going to have any friends over to play on your cab you might want to consider a trackball.  There is a  real WOW factor to be able to play Centipede, Marble Madness or Golden Tee with a trackball!

[Zobeid]

If you are going to have any friends over to play on your cab you might want to consider a trackball.  There is a  real WOW factor to be able to play Centipede, Marble Madness or Golden Tee with a trackball!

I'll admit that not being able to play Missile Command, Marble Madness or Centipede/Millipede is a negative.  But still. . .   Those are three-and-a-half games out of hundreds.  You have to draw the line somewhere, or else build a CP that looks like an aircraft carrier.

And what is this "Golden Tee" thing that people keep talking about?  Some kind of dumb golf game?

[Zobeid]

Against my better judgment. . .  I'm starting to get ambitious ideas.  I'm wondering if a swappable panel makes sense for me.  Something like. . .


Panel 1 = U360 & a trackball
Panel 2 = 8-way firetop sticks & a spinner

Panel 1 would cover all my trackball games, analog stick games, 4-way stick games (including Q*Bert).

Panel 2 would cover dual-stick games, tank games, spinner games, Tron, Frontline. . .

BUT the whole idea of a swappable panel sort of works against the simplicity I was striving for when I started my planning.

[protokatie]

BUT the whole idea of a swappable panel sort of works against the simplicity I was striving for when I started my planning.

Instead of swappable panels, why not have a fold up piece that has the trackball(s) on it. Someone here made one a few years ago, looked like a simple idea, and looked clean.

EDIT:
Here are some pics I found of it:

[Ioargra]

I see you are looking into building an LCD cabinet as well

I'd love to go with U360 joysticks on my design like you are doing, but they are kinda expensive for me. They definately look like one of the best choices for a joystick though! I'm sure you will be happy with them in your design.

I think initially I'll go for cheap, and later on I'll either build another or upgrade. Another thing I like is the differant lighted control options from GGG, but again they are kinda expensive for me right now. So I think I'll keep that in mind for the future as well.

I was thinking of using those coin buttons as well! I think they look awesome! I was thinking blue color for my project what color are you thinking about for your project?

Another possability if you want to insert coins is just to get a full coin door with mechanism. I belive they run around $20 or so from ebay.

From what I've read, the Turbotwist spinner seems to be one of the best choices for a spinner:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=268
I'd also like to get a BYOAC tokentop for my spinner at some point in the future, GGG has those as well.

Anyway, just a few thoughts of mine as I was reading over your plans.

[ark_ader]

I would make a cardboard mock up of the area you have.

Make sure the cabinet is comfortable.  I made my control panel at waist height and found that after a while it really hurt my shoulders.

Cocktail cabinets are coming back in style and help out when you have guests coming over.

Whatever you choose, please don't forget to document and let us know how you are coming along with it.   

[Zobeid]

I thought about lighted buttons and stuff, but it seemed like a distraction or a gimmick.

I have thought about a working coin door. . .  with mixed feelings.  That's obviously the coolest way to go, especially if I had it rigged for .984" (MAME or BYOAC) tokens.  But it adds cost, it adds weight, and I suspect after the novelty wore off it might seem more inconvenient than cool.  So I haven't completely made up my mind yet.

I was thinking the same thing about the TurboTwist spinner, it looks good.  I don't know if you saw this thread yet, I'm sure I'll want one of these. . .   http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=76931.0

I'm still waffling over some big issues.  I've basically laid out plans for two very different cabinets and trying to decide which way to go.

Plan 1 = Near-copy of Lokesen's Project Mame.  I really admire what he's done.  He's taken advantage of the LCD to make a cabinet substantially smaller and lighter weight, but with very little compromise of its functionality, and it looks great too.  I'd want to make a few minor modifications, though.  It could use bigger speakers and a bigger marquee, which means the top part of the cabinet would need a bit of redesign.  I'm also not sure I'd want to use the orange color scheme, but I'm not sure what I'd use in place of it either.  Some of the best looking full-side art that I like wouldn't fit onto the side of this thing, not without a lot of trimming.  (Maybe Asteroids side art could be made to mostly fit?)

Plan 2 = Full-sized Defender-style cabinet.  It would be big and heavy, but I could put the full "Defender Prototype" side art on it, and it would look fantastic.  Big speakers, big marquee, working coin door -- no compromises.  And I do, in fact, have room for it here.  So why not?

[Gamester]

I thought about lighted buttons and stuff, but it seemed like a distraction or a gimmick.

Well, the LED buttons can be MUCH more than a gimmick.  They can be made to automatically light up to match the control configuration of whatever game is selected.  IOW, if one selects a game that only uses 3 buttons, then only those buttons will be illuminated. 

When you're talking about thousands of games with different control configurations, that's a pretty darn handy feature, if you ask me...

[Zobeid]

Well, the LED buttons can be MUCH more than a gimmick.  They can be made to automatically light up to match the control configuration of whatever game is selected.  IOW, if one selects a game that only uses 3 buttons, then only those buttons will be illuminated. 

When you're talking about thousands of games with different control configurations, that's a pretty darn handy feature, if you ask me...

Is it really?

I'm thinking when you set a game up and configure it, most of the time you'd typically duplicate the functions across the control panel.

I mean for example.  . .     Let's say you are setting up Astro Blaster, which uses one stick to move the ship and two buttons: laser and warp.  Your CP has two sticks with four buttons each. . .     So you configure both sticks to move the ship, the player can use either one.  On the left you have two laser buttons and two warp buttons, on the right you have the same.  Everything functions, all the player has to do is start jabbing buttons and see what they do. 

Lighting up all the buttons wouldn't tell him anything useful.

I suppose it might be useful if you could program all the buttons sharing the same function to appear in the same color.  All the laser buttons light up in red, all the warp buttons in blue?

[protokatie]

I'm thinking when you set a game up and configure it, most of the time you'd typically duplicate the functions across the control panel.

I had thought about doing just that, then realised that it wasnt a very graceful way to set the controls up. Plus it wouldnt work for the neogeo games on my 7 button layout (nor would it make much sense)

[Gamester]

Everything functions, all the player has to do is start jabbing buttons and see what they do. 

I bet you broke your Mom & Dad's VCR when you were a kid, didn't you?  

Lighting up all the buttons wouldn't tell him anything useful.

Well, I dunno...  I mean, again, when you have 6-7 buttons available per player, and thousands of games that can use anywhere from a single button to all 7, having only the buttons applicable to a particular game light up seems pretty useful to me.

I suppose it might be useful if you could program all the buttons sharing the same function to appear in the same color.  All the laser buttons light up in red, all the warp buttons in blue?

Well actually since you mention it....  Yes, that's doable too.

In fact, another available feature is for the machine to audibly tell the players which controls are used for the selected game and what their individual functions are, while simultaneously blinking the particular button that is being described.

Here's a good thread on the topic that includes links to some videos and pictures:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=73905.0

[Gamester]

Another good thread showcasing LED buttons:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72753.msg786719#msg786719

It's up to you to decide how important such features are to you, but just wanted you to at least know what the possibilities are before discounting the idea.

[Ioargra]

I was thinking the same thing about the TurboTwist spinner, it looks good.  I don't know if you saw this thread yet, I'm sure I'll want one of these. . .   http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=76931.0

Heheh, yeah I did see that thread. Looks quite slick. I'll have to see the final designs to see if I want them, but it definately looks promising