Defender configuration

[btp2k2]

Hey guys,

I am having a hard time finding a good configuration to play Defender on my cabinet. I have the standard 6 button fighter style button setup.

Like this.....

    U     1 2 3
  L   R
    D     4 5 6


How do you guys map the buttons on Defender?

[Grasshopper]

If it's a two player panel, I would utilise both players' controls as follows:

player one's joystick - up/down
player one's button 4 - reverse
player two's button 3 - fire
player two's button 2 - thrust
player two's button 5 - smart bomb
player two's button 4 - hyperspace

[wp34]

Thanks for the idea Grasshopper.  I've been wondering how to handle Defender myself.

[ArtMAME]

I do something similar:

player one's joystick - up/down
player one's button 4 - reverse
player two's button 6 - fire
player two's button 5 - thrust
player two's button 3 - smart bomb
player two's button 4 - hyperspace

I have also used a 1 player config where I have a joystick in the middle with 3 buttons on each side.  I use the 3 buttons to the right of the joystick for fire, thrust and smart bomb, then the ones on the left for reverse and Hyperspace, and INVISO for Stargate.  I use my left hand for the joystick and keep my palm over the reverse button so I do not have to release the joystick when reversing.  You do have to release for Hyperspace and INVISO.   It works, but I still suck at Defender anyways.

[pmc]

I could never play Defender well without having the reverse button under my left thumb like the original layout. I too use button 4 for that purpose, but it's a bit of a stretch to get to it with my thumb. Eventually, I want to a build a Defender specific CP just for playing that game.

-pmc

[Zeppo]

I could never play Defender well without having the reverse button under my left thumb like the original layout. I too use button 4 for that purpose, but it's a bit of a stretch to get to it with my thumb. Eventually, I want to a build a Defender specific CP just for playing that game.

-pmc

That's my exact problem.
I put in a 7th button just for Defender reverse near the joystick.

[leapinlew]

Heres what I did:


Yeah... I built a cabinet to play Defender/Stargate. 

[pmc]

Yeah... I built a cabinet to play Defender/Stargate. 

and there's nothing wrong with that! 

-pmc

[telengard]

I could never play Defender well without having the reverse button under my left thumb like the original layout. I too use button 4 for that purpose, but it's a bit of a stretch to get to it with my thumb. Eventually, I want to a build a Defender specific CP just for playing that game.

-pmc

Same here.  My first design was a modular panel setup and I used a Happ joystick 2-way which in no way could allow for the proper placement of the Reverse button.
I tried playing with it that way for a while but it was very frustrating (and my hand would cramp pretty easy stretching for it).

I now have a modular setup and an original Defender joystick which is narrow enough to put the Reverse button right where it is.

~telengard

[pmc]

I know I should buy a two-way joystick for a Defender control panel, but is there a simple way to cut a restrictor channel to force a 4-way to only move 2 ways? I have extra joysticks I could re-purpose as long as I can replicate the height and throw properly.

-pmc

[NoOne=NBA=]

is there a simple way to cut a restrictor channel to force a 4-way to only move 2 ways?

I did exactly this for my modular CP.
There are two ways to go about it.

First, you can drill two holes, and then jigsaw the slot between them, and sand it smooth.
Second, you can drill an entrance hole, and then rout the slot using a guide.

I have extra joysticks I could re-purpose as long as I can replicate the height and throw properly.

The joystick you pick will determine how well this works.

I lucked out on this point because I picked up one of the really small Taito 4-ways in a lot buy.
They have a very short stick, very small balltop, and 1/4" shaft on them.
When bottom mounted, and routed slightly into a slotted CP, they very closely mimic the height/feel/throw of the original Defender sticks.

The one modification I made was that I cut one corner of the joystick base off, to allow me to properly position the reverse button in relation to the stick.
This modification will work on any joystick with similar construction to a Happ/Wico joystick with no problems.
The only problem I see with using a Happ stick is the throw.
If you want the stick low to the panel, like the original, it's going to have a very long throw to it.

This throw length is going to be critical because you need to move up/down rapidly, and repeatedly.
You can adjust a leafswitch stick so that it will actuate immediately off center in both directions, allowing very quick up/down movement.
You can't do this with a microswitch stick, so you are going to have some control lag, based solely on design of the stick.

[TOK]

Heres what I did:


Yeah... I built a cabinet to play Defender/Stargate. 

Also guilty! 

[LeedsFan]

Love that last control panel!   Well done!!!   

But I have to question how the original Defender played. I never really played it but even with the button placed to close to a vertical 2-way stick how is it comfortable to play like that? I just tried it with my 2 player panel mock up and trying to use my left thumb while moving up/down just feels so weird. 

[telengard]

I know I should buy a two-way joystick for a Defender control panel, but is there a simple way to cut a restrictor channel to force a 4-way to only move 2 ways? I have extra joysticks I could re-purpose as long as I can replicate the height and throw properly.

-pmc

I think the bigger issue for you will be the footprint of the joystick itself.  I had a 4 way and although it didn't feel perfect, it was OK.  The placement of the reverse button was far more of an issue, for me at least.  It doesn't seem to bug some people as much though.

IIRC there is a restrictor available for the Happs that only does 2-way.  That is what I bought way back when.  If you could find them, Oscar Controls restrictors would work too.

Love that last control panel!   Well done!!!   

But I have to question how the original Defender played. I never really played it but even with the button placed to close to a vertical 2-way stick how is it comfortable to play like that? I just tried it with my 2 player panel mock up and trying to use my left thumb while moving up/down just feels so weird. 

It actually looks a little too far away to my ol' eyes.   
That's a very well done panel, even has the nice translucent buttons!

EDIT: Here's a pic of my very ugly, but close to the original layout:



~telengard

[TOK]

Love that last control panel!   Well done!!!   

But I have to question how the original Defender played. I never really played it but even with the button placed to close to a vertical 2-way stick how is it comfortable to play like that? I just tried it with my 2 player panel mock up and trying to use my left thumb while moving up/down just feels so weird. 

Thank you... Mine is a repro Stargate overlay, so the buttons are all in the correct spots. I made this panel for a Defender/Stargate bartop since I was never happy with a control layout compromise. It was only a last minute decision not to go with a real Williams 2 way because it would have limited the cab to just those two games. I used a Sanwa and actually shimmed down the stick after that picture was taken to get it at the correct Defender height. Having the button close to the stick is key for learning to play since you need to be able to maintain up/down control while using the reverse.

I don't use that button for anything except the Defender reverse function. For playing a few other two button games I used the Thrust and Fire buttons.

PS: Thanks Telengard for the complement on the buttons. I used the translucents so I could light them.

[pmc]

The one modification I made was that I cut one corner of the joystick base off, to allow me to properly position the reverse button in relation to the stick.

I remember seeing pics of that in this forum a couple of years ago.

Good points. I guess I have some thinking to do before I throw something together (maybe that's why I never started!).

-pmc

[TOK]

The one modification I made was that I cut one corner of the joystick base off, to allow me to properly position the reverse button in relation to the stick.

I remember seeing pics of that in this forum a couple of years ago.

Good points. I guess I have some thinking to do before I throw something together (maybe that's why I never started!).

-pmc

Nice to see so many Defender fans... I also trimmed the stick base to get the spacing right. Sanwa makes a red balltop and here is what I needed to trim off the base to get the button in the right spot. Very easy cut and sand with a Dremel.

[leapinlew]

Having the button close to the stick is key for learning to play since you need to be able to maintain up/down control while using the reverse.

Very good advice. I'll be re-doing my CP and I'll be fixing the button on mine. As you can see, mine has plenty of room to get closer:

[pmc]

So I'm hearing that I can use a Sanwa or a small Taito.

Anyone have the original stick's dimensions (height, throw, etc.). I know that the CP layout is readily available, but I'm not sure I've seen details on the stick.

But I have to question how the original Defender played. I never really played it but even with the button placed to close to a vertical 2-way stick how is it comfortable to play like that? I just tried it with my 2 player panel mock up and trying to use my left thumb while moving up/down just feels so weird. 

It was weird at first, but the design turns out to allow for extremely intuitive gameplay because up/down and forward/reverse are controlled by the same hand. After a dozen quarters or so I got the hang of it and after that the movement becomes very fluid. That's why replicating the original layout makes so much sense.

-pmc