Jukebox Audio: Which choice to make???

[Triton]

Hi,

Long time lurker, first time poster


I'm to a point in my design that I need to decide what type of speakers/sound amplification I will use.  This will have a big impact as to how I frame together the cabinet.

Here are the choices as I see it:
1.  2.1 Computer Speakers
2.  Car speakers with car amp
3.  Home stereo speakers


+'s and -'s:
1.  Computer speakers may not project enough sound for a 16x29 room.  Plus they may sound tinny at higher volumes.   However, it is a direct connection to the sound card and are the easiest to outfit in the cabinet

2.  lots of How To threads where people use car speakers.   However, I have never heard car audio speakers sound good in a home environment.  Then again, the only time I've seen someone use car speakers in the house the boxes were made out of cardboard.

3.  Home stereo speakers would be my initial choice as I have a set of Acoustic Research floorstanding speakers.   However, I think that I will need to get a stereo (don't need 5.1 with music) amplifier.  I don't know how I would wire it to where the amp came on when I turned on the cabinet.

The questions that I have:
1.  If I buy a "GOOD" set of 2.1 pc speakers, Klipsch and Logitech come to mind,  will the sound be just fine for indoor use? 

2. What car audio speakers will give a good dynamic range?  I don't think that just a pair of 6x9's will give good bass response.  Do I need to get seperate speakers (tweeters, mid range, subwoofer) and wire them into the cabinet with crossovers?  Or would a set of MTX's work just fine? 

3.  If going with home stereo equipment, what would need to be done to have the amp come on when the unit is powered on? 

4.  I've seen a member hear talk about a commercial power amp.  Where can I get more information on this type of amp and what speakers would be good to use with it.

5.  Would PA speakers be a possible choice?  There are several out there that are powered speakers with their own amp.

6.  Has anyone used the multi room feature of Home Receivers to push sound out to another room?  There would obviously need to be a speaker wire connector plate installed in the back of the jukebox.  But I thought that would be a good idea, even if you just wanted to push another pair of speakers you had in the room.



I would like to hear back from the community as to sound differences and install differences between the 3 choices.  As well, any personal experienced-based opinions on either of the options. 

Also, while I'm posting....   I want to send a big thanks to this community.   I've been an occasional lurker for quite a while now.   I've learned ALOT from reading this forum.   I've decided to build a jukebox before tackling a MAME cabinet.  I've decided to go touchscreen and I've narrowed it down to 3 apps for the front end.  I'm testing out Freebox right now and will finish my evaluations here in a few weeks.   I've been sorting/renaming/downloading cover art for the mp3 collection for a couple of months now.  I already have the pc parts needed for the cabinet (other than the 17" ELO).   Once I decide on audio speakers/amp, I will be able to design the cabinet.

Cheers,

Triton

[drben]

I think your choice of speakers will largely depend on a few things..

a) How much space you have available for speakers
b) How much work you're willing to put in to the speakers.. and
c) How much money you want to spend.

You can definitely make any of those options sound good.

The best option IMO would be home speakers, but they are also probably the most expensive. Car speakers can be made to sound as good for less money but they are more work as you have to power them from an amplifier that will drive 4 ohm speakers.. which means a car amp and then you need a large current power supply to supply 12V for the amp. And then if you have a subwoofer it will most likely have a separate amp and need another power supply..

If you have little space and don't want to do a lot of work, PC speakers are ideal and as you say they are easy and you can get some good 2.1 systems that sound OK..

Personally I used car speakers in my last cabinet and they sounded good, but it was a bit of mucking around. In my current cabinet I used home speaker drivers. I essentially built ported enclosures into my jukebox and used a crossover for each woofer and tweeter to get the best sound out of the speakers. For the subwoofer I used an inexpensive home theatre sub (~$150)  which came in a box with an amp. I just took the front of the cabinet it was in and integrated it into my jukebox cabinet.

As far as powering things, the power system in my current cabinet works like this: I have a power strip with a main switch that turns on all of the sockets. I have everything plugged into that, and I leave the amp switched on (the subwoofer amp has an auto on/off when it gets signal). Next to the switch for the power strip I have a button for PC power. So to turn the jukebox on all I have to do is flick the switch for the power strip and push the button for the PC.

In the car speaker one I used the same system, but had a separate PC power supply for the amplifiers which I bridged the ATX green wire to ground so the power supply just came on when mains power was supplied.

[richms]

There is nothing harder about using car drivers then using normal home audio targeted drivers, infact it can be easier since you can get car ones in a coaxial configuration easier.

Any amp should handle one pair of 4 ohm speakers, 2 or more probably not, but you can always use more then one amplifier

If you are crossing out the bass to send it to a home audio subwoofer then you will only need modist power for the mids/highs, so you can look at one of the cheap kits from 41Hz.com - infact look there for all your amplifier needs since the digital ones are just so much more efficiant it will reduce your cabinet heating by heaps. Possibly you could get by with the sonic impact amp, but thats really a little low in power for my liking.... Nice and cool running tho and you can just take the 12v from the PC directly. There is a PCI bracket version but I cant find it at the moment, and you would still need an external crossover anyway.

To make it power up and down, the same way as the monitor is easiest since that will have to switch mains voltage anyway. A relay connected to the PC is my prefered option, or you can get a smart strip and just plug the amplifier into it.

[z28dan]

I have built 4 or 5 jukes so far.
1 with computer speakers
1 with home-stereo and external/internal juke speakers
3 with panasonic 800 watt surround system.
In my opinion the surround set-up is the best.
main unit is housed inside my jukes, also plays cds,dvds,am/fm,has remote control,powered sub,smaller surround speakers and center channel can be mounted inside cabinet or used on wall. unit can be turned on and off with remote or powered on by smart strip that comes on with computer.
good 800w-1000w system will thump most houses or rec-rooms or 3000sf. barn in my case.
prices from $200-$400 complete
any questions call me  dan norton 330-608-5592

[DaOld Man]

Hey z28dan.. got any pictures or thread links on your projects?
Sounds very interesting...

[z28dan]

will post pics of several jukes tomorrow, birthday party today
thanks.

[digitaldj]

If you want awesome sound spend the time and do your homework and it will pay off.  Speakers built into the cabinet with the bass cab calculated for size and ported for the best lower volume bass is what I did. www.partsexpress.com is one of the best places to purchase speakers and they have a forum where those huys will help you calculate box size and port size for your bass speakers. Use good midrange and tweeters from them also with 3 way crossovers. Use a commercial amp and you want believe the sound quality.

my page [/url]www.freewebs.com/artdecojukebox[/url]

[Freeplay]

I used speakers like these from ebay


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-Precision-Audio-WH8-2-x-8-200W-DJ-PA-Speakers_W0QQitemZ150202946012QQihZ005QQcategoryZ14990QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[digitaldj]

Got a picture of your Juke?

[digitaldj]

2 way speakers are usually to shallow for midrange.

[Arcade Freak]

hi guys,

a couple of questions:

i am setting my self up to build my first juke this summer. the pc will be just a regular pc with video capability then for speakers i have a set of home speakers (about 10 years old) the old type stand about 3 feet tall with the tweeter, mid and the sub at the bottom. i think they were rate for 150 w each so now my question is:

1- will a basic sound like sound blaster 16 card be good enough to make it sound good or what should i use...keep in mind that funds are not there as wife thinks is a waste of time.... .  so the cheaper the better

2- then how do i connect a remote control to the juke to be able to turn on/off the system, control the volume and be able to skip to the next song***typo***.

cheers,

[richms]

A SB16 compatible  should be ok, but the analog side of cards is what varies greatly between ones that are good and those that are crap. A crap card will buzz when you move the mouse and squeak on HDD access etc. But Sb16 compatibility is a rare thing these days and totally unneeded under windows..

A $15 card will be more then adequite for stereo playback if its not crap. Or try a USB sound card - there are some really cheap ones of those and they are away from the interference inside the computer.

Speakers will be ok but the big one in them is not a sub, it is a woofer in a cabinet tuned for it so will not go as deep as a sub will. You will still need an amplifier however. Go to the local goodwill and look for some old thing with wooden sides and a tuner that has a knob on it for $5-10 - dont get much lower cost then that.

There are plenty of DIY remote control methods - google for girder and lirc - there is a windows version of it.

Or get a microsoft media center remote and reciever and use that, also quite low cost.

[Arcade Freak]

Speakers will be ok but the big one in them is not a sub, it is a woofer in a cabinet tuned for it so will not go as deep as a sub will. You will still need an amplifier however. Go to the local goodwill and look for some old thing with wooden sides and a tuner that has a knob on it for $5-10 - dont get much lower cost then that.

the speakers were originally purchase by me with a full system which i still have. so the amp i have would work them...right?

but the output on the SB16 is already amp (internally) so using that as the input to the amp will blow the amp. the inputs to amps have to be in the milliwatts.....so how do you go around that or is there something about SB16 or any sound card that i do not know about or am i off the boat totally

cheers

[digitaldj]

The output from the sound card is typically called line out or the same as preamp out. You will need to hook this into your line or auxilary input on your amp/receiver. That way it bypasses the preamp in the amp/receiver. You will know if you have it hooked in the wrong inputs because if it is not line or auxilary input it will be real distorted(overdriven). This will not be a problem if you are just using a amp that requires a preamp like some commercial amps.

Kevin

[Triton]

First off, thank you for the information.  I appreciate the help and all of the advice. 

In an effort to cut costs I was going to use an existing set of speakers (Polks or ARs) and get an old receiver to power them.  I thought that the floorstanding Acoustic Research speakers sounded better than the Polks but they were also 30lbs a piece.  I am waiting to design the cabinet until I have figured out the speaker config.  Once I find the speakers I can build the cabinet customized to the exact dimensions of the juke internals.

I ran across a great deal through Craigs List and got a set of Klipsch Pro Media Ultra 5.1 speakers for $50.  So I have decided to use these instead of Home Theater speakers. http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/promedia-ultra-5-1.aspx


 

[richms]

but the output on the SB16 is already amp (internally) so using that as the input to the amp will blow the amp. the inputs to amps have to be in the milliwatts.....so how do you go around that or is there something about SB16 or any sound card that i do not know about or am i off the boat totally

cheers

The output of a soundcard is lower impedance so it can drive headphones directly, that doesnt matter since the amps input impedance is so much higher. What matters is the output level, and thats often lower on things designed for headphones so that they dont put out too much volume and make braindead people go deaf too quickly. So you will usually have to have the volume higher then you would on a proper line level source.

There were some soundcards with a power amplifier on them for small speakers, but they usually came with old HP and compaq consumer grade computers so they could connect to the crappy attached to the monitor speakers. If you have one of those, then replace it.

[digitaldj]

My sound blaster live drives my commercial amp just fine and doesn't require alot of volume from the sound card. If sound cards were designed just for headphones then that's new news to me.

The one thing that kills me with computer speakers like the Klipsch that was posted is there is no way these are 500watts of output power. First off look at the size of the amp! Second companies like to play on consumers lack of knowledge with their specifications, that's how they get the $400.00 price tag.  The way they pull off the 500watts is total power consumed from the amp not the output.

[richms]

Of cource you can drive headphones off a soundcard. Thats how skype headsets etc that hookup to the front of the case are able to work. If you hook headphones to a real line out you will get virtually nothing.

You also get a lower volume since the voltage is less with a headphone out, the iPods not a good example of this because its lineout via the dock is also a really low level compared with a cd player or something with proper rca output.