New Product: TurboTwist High-Low™ - Arcade Up/Down Spinner - GroovyGameGear

[RandyT]

 
Look for it on the store.  BTW, product is shown without wiring for display purposes.

GroovyGameGear is proud to present the first and only high-resolution Arcade spinner with Up / Down capability, the TurboTwist High-Low™.  The TT-HL offers no-compromise performance for spinner gaming in the smallest possible footprint for a spinner control with up / down capability.  It's so small, the entire unit can fit in the palm of your hand.  Switch actuation has been tuned for a short throw, with just the correct amount of resistance to ensure positive actuation only when intended.

Features:

• DOT inspired, 1.5" diameter solid Stainless-Steel knob, with familiar concentric circle pattern, is included at no extra charge!
• 1200 transitions per revolution provides full coverage for any spinner or paddle game, including those demanding racing and Arkanoid-style games.
• Fully sealed triple ball bearing design provides for maximum shaft stability and smooth motion.
• All parts are CNC machined for highest precision.
• TT-HL is top surface mounted via the integrated mounting plate and knob height is adjustable.
• Mounting plate is available in Blue, Black, Red, Green, Yellow and Translucent White for illumination.
• Fully enclosed optical module protects high-tech components from dust and mishaps.
• Special Opti-Wiz™ based board (Included in the "Master" configuration) can operate up to 2 additional lower cost "Slave" TurboTwist 2 spinners.
• X, Y or Z axis operation can be selected by simply plugging the data cable onto the desired axis connector.
• Comes pre-wired to activate Left mouse button when pressed and Right mouse button when pulled.
• Also suitable for any application requiring precision dial controls, such as a Scrub Control for digital media editors, CNC Machine Jog Control (MPG), Rotational measurement, etc.
• USB or PS/2 Port. No additional drivers required.
• Proudly crafted in the USA.

Price for the Master unit (includes interface board) will be $129.95


Once again, all of you who show your support for GGG with your purchases are the ones who make products like this one possible.  It's appreciated as always. 

RandyT

[Fozzy The Bear]

 

Gobsmacked!!!! RANDY DOES IT AGAIN!!!  Last year I got the TT2 ...... Now I simply have to have the TT Up Down!! ...... Can't afford the TT Up Down!! But I still have to have one some time soon.

I'm going to be out of work in a couple of months. So how I'm ever going to afford it is another matter  This is just maddening!!  Randy will you please stop torturing me with these fabulous goodies!!! 

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Minwah]

Looks brilliant!

• TT-HL is top surface mounted via the integrated mounting plate and knob height is adjustable.

My one question is, does it have to be top mounted? This would be a problem for me as I like controls to be removable after artwork is applied.  Maybe I have misunderstood this description?

[NinjaEpisode]

Congrats Randy.  Can't wait to hear some reviews! 

[More Cowbell]

Nice! Can't wait to come up with a reason to buy one. Project time!

[bfauska]

Looks brilliant!

• TT-HL is top surface mounted via the integrated mounting plate and knob height is adjustable.

My one question is, does it have to be top mounted? This would be a problem for me as I like controls to be removable after artwork is applied.  Maybe I have misunderstood this description?

Looks like a great product, but I agree with / have the same question as above, could a longer shaft be an option (unless it allows too much leverage on the rest of the assembly) ? And if it's top mount, are the mounting holes countersunk for flat head bolts, the photo doesn't appear so, or am I missing something about ithe installation?

Still looks like a great product, I know there has been a strong calling for a good push pull.

[FrizzleFried]

What games,  other than Discs of Tron,  uses this type of control?

[Angry_Radish]

Very nice!
I'd like to know more about the mounting as well though..

[ahofle]

I knew it!!!  Do I get anything for guessing your next product? 
Looks fabulous. 

[RandyT]

The design as shown is intended for top, or flush mounting.  The knob was designed to allow for about .35" more height than the "default" configuration.  The mounting plate is only 1.75" square, with most of it under a knob, so it's not nearly as obtrusive as something like a trackball mounting plate

With a longer shaft, I would be very concerned about the additional leverage that could be applied to the moving parts of the unit, resulting in a short life and poor performance.  Every engineering bone on my body is telling me that it's not a good idea

The unit will be shipped with a template for laying out the cut and mounting holes.  I will try to make the process as simple as possible.

*edit* missed this one.

...are the mounting holes countersunk for flat head bolts, the photo doesn't appear so...

Good catch.  The plate in the photo is not countersunk, however the shipped parts will be.  #4 x 3/4 flathead screws will be supplied with the unit.


RandyT

[Angry_Radish]

That answers my concerns, thanks!

[LeedsFan]

I take it your other spinner tops (like the token tops for example) will still fit the shaft?

Also I have a general installation question. I will be using Ultimarcs Minipac interface for my CP. How easy is it to hook up your new spinner to a Minipac? Would I still need the "master" pack or would a "slave" one do? Or would I need to install your spinner as a seperate USB device and have my Trackball only going through the Minipac? (If so both spinner and TB be active at the same time I think, which is why I want to use the Minipac) 

[zaphod]

You are making my near-future Control Panel v.2.0 very expensive with all your new products but... keep them coming!  This looks like another great product.

[Xiaou2]

Looks Nice, Especially the knob lines.

 More pics please.  would like to see how it works.   

[FrizzleFried]

Again...I am wondering...what games,  other than Discs of Tron,  will utilize this device?

Anyone?

I am trying to determine if it is in my future or not. 

[saint]

Zwackery I believe.

[Kremmit]

Woot!  Glad to see this one out in the open. 

As for games, D.O.T., Zwackery, and Forgotten Worlds uses the push, but no pull.  Forgotten Worlds has 1 or 2 players, one spinner per player.

..and then, of course, there are still all the regular spinner games.

[Patent Doc]

 

I've been waiting for a project like this for so long that now that it is finally hear I almost feel sad that the white whale was finally caught    .

Awe who the hell am I kidding.....woo hooo . Go RANDY YOU ROCK...Now I finally have something for my Christmas list.

   

Patent Doc

[patrickl]

I've been waiting for a project like this for so long that now that it is finally hear I almost feel sad that the white whale was finally caught    .

Didn't Apache bring out a push/pull spinner a year and a half ago? Oscar controls had one even before that.

[RandyT]

Didn't Apache bring out a push/pull spinner a year and a half ago? Oscar controls had one even before that.

Just so there's no confusion, I will point out the differences for you.  This is not meant to deride any products from other vendors, past or present.

As compared to others, the TT-HL is less than half the size, has no wobble, has up to 6x the resolution so it is accurate for virtually all spinner and driving games (including both Arkanoid titles),  does not have a rotational contact to the switches (turning while pushing or pulling is exactly the same as when turning while in the center position), comes standard with a very nice Stainless DOT knob and is overall less expensive than any other current option.

I believe PatentDoc was expressing that he was waiting for a product in a similar embodiment, not just any spinner with a push/pull function.  But that is for him to say

RandyT

[RetroBorg]

Well done again Randy, I've been waiting for this product for so long. How long till you package this with Tron joysticks? 

[Tiger-Heli]

Wow - Randy - just WOW!!!

For clarification - Oscar made an exact DOT repro spinner for roughly the same price IMS.  He had a black anodized knob that was also almost a repro of the original and the spinner was about the same price (maybe in the $160 range, not sure, also not sure if that included the knob - details here.)

Differences are obvious.

Apache also made one, but I don't know the details on it.

As for games, D.O.T., Zwackery, and Forgotten Worlds uses the push, but no pull.  Forgotten Worlds has 1 or 2 players, one spinner per player.

..and then, of course, there are still all the regular spinner games.

Just for clarification - D.O.T. did use the Pull function, the other mentioned games did not.

Tin Star, Wild Western, and Front Line used a cam actuated by a spinner knob, which looked liked a spinner with push action, but was actually more accurately an 8-way joystick that was always in one position.  However, I believe older versions of mame were using a spinner to map this and if you can do that in newer versions, this would work great for that.

Also, while not accurate, Ikari Warriors and other rotary joystick games used an 8-way joystick that you could rotate the handle to turn the player to fire in a different direction than you were moving, and then fire and grenade buttons, but without the authentic joysticks it is hard to play.  You can do it with a Tron style trigger and thumb stick and a standard spinner, but I think using one of these with a standard joystick and push to fire and pull to throw grenade might feel more natural - at least it would get the buttons on the correct hand.

[Patent Doc]

Randy

You are correct in your assessment.  While there are or have been other push-pull spinners (some of which I own, including the Apache), that feature wasn't the only consideration I had for a spinner.

Thanks again Randy

Great product!!!

[JustMichael]

Does it come in black?   

[RandyT]

Does it come in black?   

The Rustoleum Corporation says it comes in any color you want, but I'm afraid that is between you and them 


RandyT

[Namco]

Awesome artwork on the product too Randy. I love the I/O beam rising from the center of the knob!! 

[Zeppo]

I'm at a loss for words.
That is truly awesome.

[Tiger-Heli]

Randy - could you add the dimensions to the initial post - especially the below panel depth and cutout dimensions???

Thanks again!!!

[tommyinajar]

OMG yea !! The only reason I never got an Apache was the footprint and the mention of "grinding" in some reviews...

[RobotronNut]

this looks great!

i, too, would prefer bottom-mounting. it seems to me that long-shaft leverage would not be a problem if you simply drilled a small hole thru your wood panel for the shaft, just large enough for it to turn freely. then the "throw" would be very short, and not much torque would be applied to the bearings.

in my panel, this unit would have to co-exist with two other USB devices: a 56-input ipac and a happ USB trackball, under windows XP home. i assume they would all play nicely together, and mame would see the trackball and spinner as a single 2-axis device and a single set of mouse buttons. is that correct?

[RandyT]

i, too, would prefer bottom-mounting. it seems to me that long-shaft leverage would not be a problem if you simply drilled a small hole thru your wood panel for the shaft, just large enough for it to turn freely. then the "throw" would be very short, and not much torque would be applied to the bearings.

The throw is not the issue.  The unit is precision manufactured to a very tight tolerance in order to provide smooth up and down motion without binding.  The additional leverage created by a longer shaft makes it much easier to apply force in the "wrong direction" which can cause binding and premature wear of the plunger race.  While you could incorporate a bushing into your panel to help keep the forces where they belong, it will create additional drag and affect performance.  And if the shaft and your bushing are the slightest bit mis-aligned, it will exacerbate the issue rather than help.

That being said, if you really want a custom build with a longer shaft, I can do it as long as you understand that no warranty can be offered because it would be built outside of proper spec.  It would also cost an additional $10, due to the extra labor (I have no assembly tooling for longer shafts) and the more expensive precision shaft.  Once I have them on the store, you can drop me an email if you wish to order one like this.

i assume they would all play nicely together, and mame would see the trackball and spinner as a single 2-axis device and a single set of mouse buttons. is that correct?

IIRC, MAME now can differentiate between MOUSE devices.  I.e. each mouse device is enumerated and will not interfere with one another under MAME.  You should not have any conflict issues with other hardware.

RandyT

[TPB]

Randy,

Will there be a Steering Wheel option with the TT-HL spinner ?

Or shall that remain an exclusive option for the TT2 ?

[ratzz]

looks really nice - a great addition to your catalogue...

[Tiger-Heli]

i assume they would all play nicely together, and mame would see the trackball and spinner as a single 2-axis device and a single set of mouse buttons. is that correct?

IIRC, MAME now can differentiate between MOUSE devices.  I.e. each mouse device is enumerated and will not interfere with one another under MAME.  You should not have any conflict issues with other hardware.

I believe you might see issues with this if they are both plugged into the same USB pair of ports or the same hub - i.e. the trackball might be Mouse 1 and the spinner Mouse 2 and when you re-boot, the spinner might be Mouse 1 and the trackball is Mouse 2.  (This occurs if the trackball and mouse use the same drivers, and I don't know if they would or not - it can happen with different branded mice).

This could be avoided by either:

• Plugging the trackball and spinner into separate mother board ports, i.e one of the rear panel ports and one of the front panel headers or a PCI card with USB ports on it.
• Mapping control to both Mouse 1 and Mouse 2 (of course now accidental movement of the "inactive" control affects gameplay.
• I believe MAME now has an .ini file setting that treats all mice as a single device, which would do the same thing as option 2 above with the same drawbacks.
• The interface board with the TT-HL can also control a trackball, so you could have the spinner on the Z-axis, and the trackball on X and Y, and only have one mouse in the system, so avoid all the problems that way as well.

Hope This Helps!!!

[RandyT]

I believe you might see issues with this if they are both plugged into the same USB pair of ports or the same hub - i.e. the trackball might be Mouse 1 and the spinner Mouse 2 and when you re-boot, the spinner might be Mouse 1 and the trackball is Mouse 2.  (This occurs if the trackball and mouse use the same drivers, and I don't know if they would or not - it can happen with different branded mice).

TH - Are you sure about this happening with different brand (USB ID) devices?  I would have expected that Windows would do the same with the mice that it does with Joypads, and that would be to enumerate them based on whatever criteria it uses, and then they would always be prioritized in that order using the USB ID to differentiate.  Otherwise, what would be the point of different USB IDs?

Not saying that it can't happen, just that it seems a little "out of character" based on the way other devices are handled.  Is it possible that the "different brand" MOUSE devices are all using the same off-the-shelf controller with the same USB ID, and that is where difficulties would arise?

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Not saying that it can't happen, just that it seems a little "out of character" based on the way other devices are handled.  Is it possible that the "different brand" MOUSE devices are all using the same off-the-shelf controller with the same USB ID, and that is where difficulties would arise?

Okay - I haven't used that many USB devices personally, and what I do use I don't leave connected (which also solves the problem - all devices the same with a FIFO works fine as well).

What I have seen posted is that you can't for example use a Microsoft mouse hack and a Kensington mouse hack and assume they will not swap positions.  Now it may well be (in fact is likely) that both mice are using the same microcontroller and circuit board and USB ID, and that is the root cause of this problem, I don't know that, but it would make sense.

(And based on that, it's unlikely that the TT-HT uses the same boards as the Happ USB trackball, although I'm not sure whether there might be issues with it and an Electric-Ice or a TT2) - although it's not like any of these can't be avoided with proper planning.

[u_rebelscum]

i assume they would all play nicely together, and mame would see the trackball and spinner as a single 2-axis device and a single set of mouse buttons. is that correct?

IIRC, MAME now can differentiate between MOUSE devices.  I.e. each mouse device is enumerated and will not interfere with one another under MAME.  You should not have any conflict issues with other hardware.

FWIW:
If you enable -multimouse, mame sees them separately.

The default setting, however, is for -multimouse to be disabled, where all mice are grouped as one device.

(I'm talking current versions of mame, 0.118 and later; was different before that.)

[RobotronNut]

... I'm talking current versions of mame, 0.118 and later; was different before that...

uh-oh. things were looking good up until i read that!
i'm running 0.103 and would rather not upgrade right now.
i'd be happy with the "-multimouse disabled" behavior.
is that what i'm likely to get with:
XP home + mame 0.103 + happ usb trackball + ggg TT-HL ?

[u_rebelscum]

i'm running 0.103 and would rather not upgrade right now.
i'd be happy with the "-multimouse disabled" behavior.
is that what i'm likely to get with:
XP home + mame 0.103 + happ usb trackball + ggg TT-HL ?

Heh, lucky, squeezed in there:

Tested xp home + mame 0.103 + 2 USB mice + 1 ps/2 mouse:  Mame sees all mice as one device.


FWIW:
From 0.105 to 0.117, mame "forced" multimouse (there was no option to turn it disable the behavior).   
For winXP, mame 0.104 and prior do not support separate multiple mice, period.

[TPB]

Randy :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=74483.msg772351#msg772351

Any word ??