Credit vs Start Button

[Kurso]

I'm relatively new to MAME and about two weeks ago I decided to build a cabinet for my kids for Christmas.  From a woodworking point of view it's a very fun project, although building it by myself has been a challange at times (sheets of MDF are heavy .  My cabinet it now fabricated and assembled with just the control panel left to build.  My Happ parts will arrive today but I have run into an issue using MAME on my PC with a keyboard that I'm sure is basic but I did not plan for it with the buttons I ordered.

Essentially The start and add credit buttons are seperate.  I'm building a 4 player unit with 6 buttons per player, player 1-4 buttons, 5 function buttons (enter,tab,~, etc...) and left and right mouse buttons for the track ball.  I'm not going to have a coin machine so adding credits becomes an issue.  How are people handling this?  Is there a way to map the start button and credit add to the same keystroke?

Thanks in advance

[ahofle]

Personally, I'd ditch the player 3 and 4 start buttons (very seldom used) and use them for coin 1 and coin 2.  Depending on what keyboard interface you are using you can also use shift functionality to insert a coin, but that is a real pain when playing with guests.

[shardian]

First off, DO NOT PUT A TAB INPUT ON THE CONTROL PANEL WHERE ANYONE CAN HIT IT!!!!!!!!

Secondly, of course you should have a start and credit button for all four players. With all of those controls, why not? An IPAC4 has dedicated inputs for those buttons. Your missing the forest for the trees, bro.

[DaveMMR]

Here's what I would do:

Players 3 and 4 (the "outer" players), 4 buttons each, 3 if you don't play Dungeons & Dragons (6 for P1 and P2),  Coin and Start buttons for each player.  Ditch the 5 function buttons from the panel (hide them or use a hidden keyboard, don't clutter up the panel with non-game essential buttons).  You also really don't need mouse buttons (those fall under admin buttons in my opinion).

Less is more when it comes to push buttons on the panel.   Too many buttons just confuse people. YMMV

[DaOld Man]

I used a coin door, but added cheat buttons to bypass the coin slots.

Click here for my blog on this.

It might be an option for you.
I agree with others about loosing most of the admin buttons, but that is up to you.

[DaveMMR]

I used a coin door, but added cheat buttons to bypass the coin slots.

Click here for my blog on this.

It might be an option for you.
I agree with others about loosing most of the admin buttons, but that is up to you.

Pretty interesting stuff.   My cheat when I don't feel like using coins is to leave the coin door open and flick the little switch manually. Coins are still more fun though (I provide tokens to guests) - it discourages people from whacking "credit" 100 times and sticking around too long.   

[DaOld Man]

Pretty interesting stuff.   My cheat when I don't feel like using coins is to leave the coin door open and flick the little switch manually. Coins are still more fun though (I provide tokens to guests) - it discourages people from whacking "credit" 100 times and sticking around too long.   

Thanks, and you know I never thought about the hanging around too long... you might have something there..   

[Kevin Mullins]

a cabinet for my kids

I'm not going to have a coin machine so adding credits becomes an issue.

What about just setting it up for free play....... no credits required.

Of course I haven't farted with MAME in forever, so maybe someone else can point out specifics on that idea. (settings, etc)

But I do have to agree with having as few easily accessible admin buttons directly on the control panel.
You'd just be asking for trouble due to things randomly getting pushed and making the system wig out.

[unclet]

I have a 4-player control panel just like you are making and built it for my kids as well.   My kids love to play 4-player games with each other and the neighbors (TMNT, Simpsons, etc...).  These games require each player to have a coin button (to add life for each individual player) as well as a start button (to drop the player into the game at certain times .... like after you die).   

My point is, a lot of people here might not play 4-player games, but a bunch of people do play ..... these are my kids favorite types of games by the way.   All of there friends come over and they play them for a long time   If each player did not have a coin/start button then it would not be easy to play them, especially for kids since you would have to resort to using some type of "shift" encoder functionality or something to probably get it to work.

My recommendation is to simply put a couple extra buttons up there for each player.   I personally have my coin buttons located on the "vertical" front face of the control panel and have the actual player start buttons on the top of the control panel like normal.

Anyway, I just had to provide my opinion ...... good luck

[Tiger-Heli]

Here's what I would do:

Players 3 and 4 (the "outer" players), 4 buttons each, 3 if you don't play Dungeons & Dragons (6 for P1 and P2),  Coin and Start buttons for each player.  Ditch the 5 function buttons from the panel (hide them or use a hidden keyboard, don't clutter up the panel with non-game essential buttons).  You also really don't need mouse buttons (those fall under admin buttons in my opinion).

Less is more when it comes to push buttons on the panel.   Too many buttons just confuse people. YMMV

I agree with the above, however, if you just want less buttons on the panel or just need 4 additional inputs, you can keep the coin inputs and combine Start with Button 1.  I have a page on it here: http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/startkey.htm

[Kurso]

Thanks for all the advice.  4 player is definetly required. I have two kids and my nieces and nephews come over all the time and games like X-Men, TMNT, Simpsons, etc... will be a big hit (plus those are my favorites from my younger years  )

I have seen control panels with a 7th button for each player and always wondered what they were for.  I guess I know.  In any case my control panel is the last thing I'm doing and ordering 4 more buttons from Happ is no issue (my other stuff just arrived today).  As I play with MAME on my PC I'm sure it will give me more insight into my exact requirements.

Thanks again!

[xmenxmen]

I actually build a 4 player one just for kids, so this might help.  Note, it's a repeat of some of the stuff above.

1st and 2nd player 6 button (so adult can play fighter games when kids not around)
3rd and 4th player 4 button
Start and credit for all 4 players - lots of multiplayer games require seperate credit button.
Escape (quit) button behind the cp - tried putting it on the cp and it just gets hit way too many times.
Power button - top of cab - adult has to turn it on for them
No admin or mouse button - keyboard and mouse inside cp so just lift up cp if any config is needed.
Pause button behind the cp - again don't put it on the cp.

One other button - Game List button (list wrap)
----- The other option I have done is have only 1 list (Favorite list) - used when we have tons of kids around.



What I have learn is that the least u give them, the better.

BTW, my panel is only 40in wide (note...remember.. build for kids in mind)

[unclet]

Kids love pinball as well .... are you planning on putting a couple more buttons on the side of the control panel to play Visual Pinball .... they have tons of pinball tables available.

[zelony]

I have two 4-player cabinets, I installed the "credit" buttons for each player on the undrside of the panel.  That way they are invisible but real easy to add credits when needed.  Some games require the individual credits for each player.  This was an easy way to do it without adding extra buttons to the top of the control panel. 

[Avrus]

I have a 4 player cab as well, and I'm breaking all kinds of new ground (3 trackballs) so I figured I'd stay with start and credit for all 4 players.

[Havok]

Don't order direct from Happ - you will pay more than you need to! Check out Divemaster - I've bought loads of stuff from him, great prices and great service...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47066.0

[Tiger-Heli]

I have seen control panels with a 7th button for each player and always wondered what they were for.

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread, specifically, so I'll tell you here ...

As mentioned, you only need 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  The exception to this is console games (SNES, NES, N64, Dreamcast - either emulated or built into the cab.)  The problem here is that consoles use a lot of buttons - for example, even an SNES is D-pad (joystick), 4-action buttons, shoulder buttons and select and start.  So six buttons per player will just do it.  Later consoles use even more inputs.  The workaround is to use a USB hub and USB gamepads which is more accurate anyway.

For P1 and P2, the extra 7th button is mainly there for Neo-Geo games.  This used a four button layout like below:

So the 7th button allowed you to play these games as intended, while also having the standard 6-button Street Fighter layout.  NOTE:  Only a few Neo-Geo games (mostly fighters) used all 4-buttons and even if you support all four buttons, you don't need 7 INPUTS - the 7th button can share one of the inputs from the row of SF buttons that you are not using.

Hope This Helps!!!

[Kurso]

This is all great feedback.  I've only been playing with name for a few weeks and this is my first cabinet build so all this advice is great.  I can envision going beyond MAME (maybe SNES, etc...) so I'm going to stick with the 6 button, start, and add credit per player.  This in addition to 5 function buttons and two trackball buttons should give me flexibility for the future.

Plus my control panel is going to be huge (almost 4 Ft. wide) so I have osme room to play with if I need to add more.  Thanks again!  I'll post a few pics when I'm done.

[Dazz]

Have kids.... 4 player is a must!

Here is my 4 player control panel. 


http://dazz.genmaygamers.com

I'm in the middle of revamping my cabinet and probably going to go with hidden coin buttons on the underside of my control panel.  Right now I have it set to the default Ultimarc I-PAC4 layout.  Hold player start button and press button 1 to enter credits and then start button to start.   This seems to work quite well except when many people need to input coins at the same time.

[TheManuel]

Please don't let any comments get in your way of achieving the functionality you need from your control panel however many buttons it may take.  In the end, it is you who will be playing the games so your cabinet should be tailored to suit your needs and not that of others.

Don't be too concerend with the anti-"frankenpanel" non-sense. 

[DaveMMR]

Please don't let any comments get in your way of achieving the functionality you need from your control panel however many buttons it may take. 
Don't be too concerend with the anti-"frankenpanel" non-sense. 

Again, too many buttons takes away from functionality by making confusing what should be simple.  Frankenpanel is not only about looks, it's about someone (guests, kids, etc.) being able to play a game without having to guess which of the 80 buttons on an overloaded panel you need to use to jump/shoot/etc.  So no, it's not nonsense - it's advice. 

[TheManuel]

Please don't take it personal.  I wasn't not alluding to you.  Kurso should welcome your advice.  However, if I he has to add a few buttons to play his favorite games in the most authentic or comfortable way, he should not be too concerned about having too many buttons or confusing some people unless he plans to open an arcade joint or something.
The key is to lay them out in an intuitive manner.
And about kids, if you have any, you know they are smarter than adults when it comes to video games.  You only have to tell them what each button is for, once. 

Besides, don't take me too seriously about the frankenpanels.  I'm just having fun even if my wording is poor.  This hobby is about having fun first and foremost.

Regards.

 

[DaveMMR]

That's cool, didn't take it personally.  I just wanted to give a little reasoning behind any anti-Frankenpanel movement (actually it's more an anti-"too many buttons" movement) and kind of explain it wasn't all only about "looks" lest anyone think it's the arguement of a crazed purist or perfectionist.   

[TheManuel]

Well, I don't know.
When I read your post I visualized your avatar speaking the words out loud and you did sound a bit pissed 

[Banacek]

For my cabinet I made the coin return buttons act as coin inserts. Works really well.

[Green Giant]

This is all great feedback.  I've only been playing with name for a few weeks and this is my first cabinet build so all this advice is great.  I can envision going beyond MAME (maybe SNES, etc...) so I'm going to stick with the 6 button, start, and add credit per player.  This in addition to 5 function buttons and two trackball buttons should give me flexibility for the future.

Plus my control panel is going to be huge (almost 4 Ft. wide) so I have osme room to play with if I need to add more.  Thanks again!  I'll post a few pics when I'm done.

What five function buttons you looking at?  I would only recommend pause and exit.  If you want a start game button can be done too.  You do not want tab as you will just use it to setup the system initially.  If your kids or someone visiting hit tab they could screw everything up for you.

The trackball buttons are good to have as they make golden tee feel accurate, turn left and turn right.

I also have a recommendation for the exit button.  On mine I wired the exit input on the encoder through two buttons on my panel, one on each side.  This way they both have to be held down to complete the circuit and exit.  It is a must have as you can easily reach them both when soloing and you can't reach both when playing with someone else.  This helps as your friends can't quit when you are beating them without you holding the button down too.  Also impatient guests can't sneak up and quit your game early.

[TheManuel]

Another alternative to avoid hitting tab or exit accidentally applies to those who are using keyboard encoders with a shift function like the IPac.
You can map those functions to a shifted key so that you have press it and the shift button simultaneously.
For MAME and most configurable emulators, of course, you can map exit to any combination of one or more buttons that you are unlikely to hit, such as both start buttons or a function button and and action button.
The possibilities are endless.
Here is one instance where you don't need extra buttons to get the functionality.
Anti-frankenpanelists should be proud of me. 

Oh, and I spell-checked my post this time.