Static Electricity Build up on my Cab making it go CRAZY!

[rdowdy95]

Ok guys here is the deal.  I finished my cab back in April 2007.  Yesterday I was playing some SF2 and all the sudden I don't know what I did, but all the sudden the cab started repeatedly started beeping and the controls on the cab were unresponsive.  So I had to reach around to the Computer pushbutton and hold it down to turn off the system.  Now today I was playing a different game and I wiped the screen while I was playing, and it happened again.  This time though I felt tons of static electricity and when I moved my hand across the screen I got these little snowy type lines when I rubbed my hand on the screen.  I shut the whole thing down and wiped with a tissue.  Then started wiping the screen again and it did it for a third time. 

So what is causing this.  When it happens the keywiz 1.5 doesnt see to respond, and I am using default controls on the keywiz.  I also get the annoying computer beeps as well.  So what does this mean.  How do I get rid of this static electricity.  I think that is what is causing my problem.  I am not going to turn the cab on again till I get this figured out.

I use a Sharp 27inch TV for my monitor.

[grantspain]

sounds like an earth issue,all metal on a cab(control panel,coin door,monitor frame,psu)should have an earth connected
importantly the monitor tube should have an earth strap/braid across it connected via the frame to earth and connected to the earth of the neck card

[rdowdy95]

I am kind of a noob when it comes to all of this.  My TV is okay I think it has an enclosure.  My PC seems like it is good.  Now how would I go about hooking my control panel up to be grounded?  I have the Keywiz thing grounded with the blackwires and it loops back around.  How would I ground the coin door.  The mechs are going into the keywiz, but I have grounding wires for them as well.

[rdowdy95]

Or is there any static wipes that will get rid of some of this static electricity?

[Joystick Jerk]

Or is there any static wipes that will get rid of some of this static electricity?

Yes, but as soon as your turn it back on again the charge will build back up shortly. The only way to fix this permantently is install and earth ground if one is not already present.

[grantspain]

earth and ground are different things
when you clean the screen your zapping the keywiz via the control panel
now i am guessing your cp is metal so all you need to do is get some mains earth cable (about 5amp) and connect one end to the cp and the other end to the earth coming from the walls socket input cable

[rdowdy95]

earth and ground are different things
when you clean the screen your zapping the keywiz via the control panel
now i am guessing your cp is metal so all you need to do is get some mains earth cable (about 5amp) and connect one end to the cp and the other end to the earth coming from the walls socket input cable

Sounds exactly what is happening.  Now my control panel is wood.  3/4" birch.  I know I can get some of this earth cable and a little terminal and one of those green looking screws.  Now you say connect one end to the control panel.  Now meaning add it to the Keywiz's ground or just like another wire going to the normal ground???  I don't really know.  Also that kewiz is getting plugged into the computer ps/2 port.  The main power source is the smartstrip going into the wall with the computer on the control outlet.

[grantspain]

if your cp is wood then clip via metal clips to the cab,its just wood does not suffer from static

[rdowdy95]

so do I plug one end of this earth ground wire into the keywiz ground terminal?  I already have two common ground wires plugged into the ground  terminal, and then the other end of the wire connect it to a clip?

Or do I get a couple of these clips and clip them to both side of the Keywiz interface board with no ground wire involved what soever.  I still don't understand all that well.  Also can you get me a picture of these clips.  Cause I know that is has to be the static is shorting out the keywiz, and I don't want to ruin it in the long term.

[grantspain]

the earth should not go anywhere near the keywiz mate,how many pins are there on the plug that goes to the wall socket-you should have 3(live,neutral and earth).this is the earth that should connect to every piece of metal on your cab via continuity

[rdowdy95]

Well my wall socket has three holes.  The plug on the Smartstrip is a three pronged power cord.

[rdowdy95]

Any other ideas.  I am not an electrician so I may need some example pics.  This static is shorting my Keywiz and locking up my computer.

[rdowdy95]

Let me give you all an update.  Whenever I touch the control panel or the TV the problem happens.  This is crazy.  It sucks big time.  All I am hearing is install a ground.  I need more help that that.  How do I ground a wooden control panel.  What do I ground it to?  The ATX Case inside the cabinet?  Hell I don't even know how to ground.  Now I wonder if this static is building in my trackball?  The green ground trackball wire isn't long enough to reach my ATX case screws that hold panels to the case?  Is that where I can ground the trackball too?  Where/How do I ground the rest of this Arcade Control Panel??!?!?!?!??

[DaOld Man]

Make sure your wall outlet is grounded. If it is 120 VAC, you should have three holes in it. The round hole in the center should be ground. If you have a multi-meter measure AC volts from this round hole. To the long slot you should read zero. To the short slot you should read 120 Volts AC.
If you do not read this, then the outlet is not grounded. you can fix this, if that is the problem, but first, make sure you hook up that green wire from the trackball to the case of your PC.
Also connect your coin door frame to that same wire. Get some more wire if you have to 18 gauge should be fine.
Next, make sure your PC and monitor have the three prong plugs on them.
Do not connect the ground from your PC case to any of the keywiz wires.
It sounds to me like the wall outlet you are using is not grounded.
If you dont have a mutli-meter, or you dont feel right about sticking the test probes in the 120 volt outlet, you can get a small tester that you can plug into the outlet. This will tell you if the outlet is wired right and the ground is good.
Im pretty sure home depot would have it, and it shouldnt be very expensive.

[rdowdy95]

Good info.  I do need to ground my coin door and trackball to my PSU.  Guys one question on grounding the coin door? Could I connect the ground wire in between one of the carriage bolt screws and washers?

Also my next thing I looked at was my Wall outlet is 3 pronged, my Smartstrip is three pronged, and my computer aka PSU is three pronged.  My flourescent bulb is three pronged. 

Here is the kicker.  MY TV is two pronged.  So the static from the TV must be triggering the Trackball, and that is what is screwing up everything else.  Of course I will have to wire the earth ground wire to the trackball and the coin door.

Also I temporarily fixed it tonight by  dusting the front of the TV off.  Also took the BEZEL off.  I have it held on via velcro that is attached to the TV so that could be adding to some of the static.  With the static the TV generates, I definately need to get those items grounded. 

Now my tornado spinner I have doesn't have one of those green ground wires on it, do you guys think the tornado spinner could be doing anything as far as collecting static?  I hardly use it.

[DaOld Man]

Grounding the coin door's carriage bolt will probably be good enough, but its better to ground the bolt and the door, because you could get a loose connection on the door hinge, but for static just the frame should be Ok.
Im not real sure about the TV. If it is out of the case, you might try grounding teh chassis of it to the PSU case, but be careful, TV's and monitors store a pretty heft charge for a long time, so dont touch any wires inside the TV. Perhaps someone else who has had more experience with TV's can give you better advice on grounding it.
Also, what kind of floor do you have, directly in front of arcade where you stand?
If it is carpet, you might try some anti-static spray (scotch guard?). This may help considerable.
But grounding the trackball may take care of it all.
Im not sure about grounding the spinner. But if it has a metal bracket or frame, it wouldnt hurt to ground it too.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Grant and Da OldMan are giving you good information..... HOWEVER!!! As you are very clearly not an electrician and you do not have a clear understanding of electrics or supplies or even which pins on a power outlet do what.... LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! You stand a chance of killing yourself here!!!!

I very very strongly recommend that you find somebody who does understand electrics and earth / grounds .... get them to do this WITH you!! this way you will learn and understand what is being done. I very strongly recommend against attempting any of this by yourself.

The fact that you think it's possible to ground a wooden panel is one of the most worrying things I could possibly hear, and clearly indicates you need somebody on site to show you how things work.

ELECTRICITY KILLS!!! DON'T TAKE THIS LIGHTLY!!!!

If it comes down to it then at worst case find and pay a local qualified electrician who will help you do this. 

That said.... It looks to me like your TV has no proper Degauss Circuit.... Because it's not connected to earth anywhere. Which means that it has no earthing straps on the back of the tube and no degauss coil either.

The sparkly white pattern when you wipe over it is caused by very high tube Gauss (Built Up Static)  This is discharging down the cables that are connecting it to your computer. That is what is causing the problem.

There really is no cure for this. Earthing everything else will not help here. Especially earthing everything else back to the computers power supply!!! this will be more likely to make things worse than better. The only real answer is to dump that TV and get a monitor or TV that has a proper auto Degauss and earth straps built in. Buy one that has THREE PINS ON THE POWER CORD!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[2600]

FYI, I'm not sure I've seen any CRT TV in the US with a 3 pronged power cord.

[Fozzy The Bear]

FYI, I'm not sure I've seen any CRT TV in the US with a 3 pronged power cord.

There are not many in the UK either.... But all monitors do have a propper earth connection.  It looks like a very cheap TV with a very bad static discharge problem.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[2600]

There are not many in the UK either.... But all monitors do have a propper earth connection.  It looks like a very cheap TV with a very bad static discharge problem.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Really, I thought the UK had better regulations and required all devices to have 3 prongs.  Not sure why I thought that.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Really, I thought the UK had better regulations and required all devices to have 3 prongs.  Not sure why I thought that.

Not the case..... We do have three prongs on all of our plugs.... But in some cases the earth is not connected.

The reason for this is that many modern devices have plastic cases or insulation and there are no metal parts externally that could become live in a fault condition. Therefore the earth is unnessesary to protect the user as the device is generally considered to be double insulated. Devices are always protected by a fuse in the plug as well as on board, though.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[2600]

Ah, I see what you are saying and I didn't think of that scenario.  I really wish the US would jump on board with that.

[rdowdy95]

It seems weird that usually if the TV is on by itself it doesn't have all the static problems.  It is just when all the other stuff is turned on.  What if I go ahead and ground the Trackball for now and see if that helps.  I will check on the cab tonight and see if it will do anything.  I did wipe some outside static away to where I couldn't feel anymore so I could play some Shocktroopers. 

I wonder is there a way to get rid of static buildup on these CRT TV? Like ground the TV?Anti-Static wipes wouldn't hurt.

I wonder why this is happening though.  Because there is tons of people with these TVs and they are not having the problem I am having with the static.  I will try to ask some people who have TVs as there monior.  My TV is also encased in it's normal case.  Like I can take the TV out and it looks like a TV.

[knave]

Here's an idea.  I've seen PC monitors that have an anti glare/anti static screen placed in front of the monitor.  It always has a ground clip to release the static electricity.

I'm not certain but fashioning something like this might prevent the static issues you are encountering.  Connecting it to something metal is going to be fine...Like the PC case.

I would avoid connecting anything to the 3rd (ground) prong of the outlet.

You should also make sure all (ALL) of your controls are grounded.  TV's create static.  This should not be a problem.  But if something is not properly grounded and the charge is getting to something it shouldn't you'll keep having problems.

[xmenxmen]

Here's an idea.  I've seen PC monitors that have an anti glare/anti static screen placed in front of the monitor.  It always has a ground clip to release the static electricity.

I use to have one of these that have a plug at the end of the wire.  It's a flat 3 plong plug with the wire connected to the ground plong.  That was plug to the wall outlet and it totally eliminated all the static I was having with my monitor.

Nowadays, with lcd, the problem don't seem to be there.  I still enjoy a little shock here and there each time I clean my kids tv.

[rdowdy95]

Well last night I think it has to be the trackball not being grounded cause when I rubbed my hands along the static screen it gave the windows xp beep like it would if you were plugging in or disconnecting some USB device.  IT even popped up a message saying there was a problem with one of my USB devices.  Had to be the trackball that was causing this usb crazyness.  So yeah if anything I need to get that grounded.  Cause I don't have any protection in front of the TV as far as antiglare screen.  So so much static could be hitting the top of the trackball say if my left hand is on screen and my right hand is accessing trackball and various controls.

Also one more thing what if I got a two to three pronged adapter to plug on to the two pronged TV plug.

[HaRuMaN]

Also one more thing what if I got a two to three pronged adapter to plug on to the two pronged TV plug.

Wouldn't do anything, as it wouldn't be adding a ground to the TV.

[grantspain]

a pic of your cab and the wiring would be good

[rdowdy95]

a pic of your cab and the wiring would be good

Here is some basic wiring.  The pic is small sorry.  I need to get some pics of the control panel wiring, but see the TV two prong wire is plugged into the Always Hot on the SmartStrip.  I will get some more pics soon.

Also what if I totally unplug the trackball from the back of the computer and see if I run into the same problem, if I don't then it means the trackball must be grounded.

Anyways for grounding the trackball the little green earth ground wire is not long enough to reach my computer PSU.  You know the end with the circle loop.  Is there like a way to extend the wire.  Maybe cut them and twist to a new wire and put some electric tape over the top?

[rdowdy95]

Now my cab is finished here is the link to the whole project.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55747.0

[grantspain]

you have done a really good job on the cab btw
i know this is not a fix but what about installing a monitor glass,maybe bronzed-this would probably stop your static problem
this is a bit of a silly question but if you don't touch the monitor do you still have problems

[rdowdy95]

I would love to put some monitor glass in front, but there is no room.  The TV comes out to the edge of the monitor shelf.  I could prolly put some small L brackets on the bottom of the shelf and do it that way.  It would also be a hard cut because the left side is not totally vertical it is barely off kind of sloping inward at the top.  Not noticeable, but hard to trim the glass to make it fit.

When I touched the monitor it did the trick.  Felt like a lot of static.  But the weird part was when I had just the TV on (set on the S-Video input), it didn't really show those little white lines on the screen.  When the whole thing is on it got more static-ey.  Also first time I notice it, I was playing street fighter 2 practicing those dragon punches, and I moved over to the right side to insert credit for P2 then that is when it went haywire.  I definately felt a little static shock from the trackball, and that is when it happened the first time.

Last night when I was waving my hands on the TV glass static was going crazy.  I had my left hand on the glass, and my right hand was on the controls.  Do you think that could of been enough for the static to pass through my body to my right hand where my hands were on the controls?

Tonight I will wipe down the screen before I play, and see if it happens again. 

Last night I wiped the TV off real good.  After all the static-ey times I had then played shocktroopers.  I waved my hand in front of the TV and all was good.  I think what is happening is all the static buildup on the TV and me touching the screen some how the static is effect the USB trackball (not earth grounded yet), and that is causing the computer to get screwed up with USB devices and such.

My Keywiz is Ps/2 though and it messes up as well.  The only resonse I get is holding down the power button to shut the system down, and when I do move the trackball the mouse cursor lags like crazy.  This is during the times when the static strife is making my computer beep like crazy.  First there is the USB device found beeps, then normal computer style beeps.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Do you think that could of been enough for the static to pass through my body to my right hand where my hands were on the controls?

YES!! The static is trying to find its way to earth... It will take the shortest route it can find. If you touch the screen and your controls it will most certainly travel through you to try and ground out on your controls which are connected to your PC, via the keywiz. Then it tavels to the ground on your PC's power supply. Freaking out the Keywiz and your PC in the process. This could cause serious damage to both of them.

Static is several thousand volts... at very low ampage. In the case of a monitor or TV about 25,000 Volts. So yes it will travel through you.


There is one thing you could try.......

Form a loop of bare copper wire.... run that right around the edge of your screen. In contact with the screen surface. Tape it on there if you have to. Connect that loop to the earth tag... This might help to prevent the excessive static build up your are suffering from as it will help to drain the static away from the screen.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rdowdy95]

I was typing a bunch then submitted to find my pic was too big.  DAMN IT! Hit back and all the #($# I wrote was gone.  POS!!!!

[rdowdy95]

Good info Fozzy I will try that if I can't get anything else to work. 

Fozzy when I turn the TV on by itself I have hardly no static buildup, but when I turn everything else on that is when the static builds up.

I also found an extra locknut laying in the Control Panel box.  Would that cause this mess to happen?  I did take it out of there.  Don't know why I threw the extra in there.

Below is a pic of my setup.

Also say if I want to extend the earth wire on my Happ Trackball.  Do any of you know what gauge that is? I am thinking 18 Awg?  I am not sure though.  Also for heatshrink tubing could I use a hot blow hair dryer or do I need to try to find a heat gun?  Should I solder or just twist and use electric tape around the connections of the wires?

Does anyone here use a TV as there Arcade monitor? Anyone else have this problem?

Also is there anything else I can do like clean the glass of the TV screen.  Would that help against the static.  I still don't understand that 7 months the thing has been workin great now I get static when I touch the screen.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Fozzy when I turn the TV on by itself I have hardly no static buildup, but when I turn everything else on that is when the static builds up.

When there is no image on screen then there will be less static buildup. Because the guns are not putting as much energy out.

I also found an extra locknut laying in the Control Panel box.  Would that cause this mess to happen? 

NO! Nothing to do with it.

Also say if I want to extend the earth wire on my Happ Trackball.  Do any of you know what gauge that is? I am thinking 18 Awg?  I am not sure though.  Also for heatshrink tubing could I use a hot blow hair dryer or do I need to try to find a heat gun?  Should I solder or just twist and use electric tape around the connections of the wires?

1) wire gauge doesn't matter much... It's only draining the static ....the heavier the better... the wires out of an ordinary electrical mains lead will do fine.
2)Use the side of your soldering iron on the heat shrink tube
3)Use a Chock Block (terminal block) to connect the wires. Or crimp some plug in connectors onto them.

Also is there anything else I can do like clean the glass of the TV screen.  Would that help against the static.

No! total waste of time.... Won't make any difference.

Below is a pic of my setup.

Looks perfectly OK to me... except that I'm confused as to why the black wire from the keywiz goes out of the cable hole in the box??? where is it going to?? and where does the black wire from your actual controls go to??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rdowdy95]

Hey Fozzy I was wondering when someone was going to ask me about my black ground wires leaving the box.  I have them looped actually.  See the the first black wire goes to one of the joystick switches.  Then it travels daisy chain style to all the switches and the last switch you see it is connected to blue 1p credit button.  Then it leaves out of the box to the Coin mechs then comes back through the box to be connected back into the ground at the Keywiz.  Does that make any sense.

Fozzy what I might do to fix this problem for me is try to find some lexan or some kind of glass protection to put in front of the screen.  You think that would be good?

Do any of you guys know where I can get some of that Graylite glass and what is a good kind.  I don't think no one would scratch this glass, but it wouldn't hurt to have also.  I will prolly need to use 1/8" cause 1/4 inch would be to thick I think.  My TV comes out pretty far that is why I need smaller.

PS I did play a lot last night with no problems cause I wasn't waving my hand at the screen like an idiot anymore>  I don't want to ruin my controls.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Fozzy what I might do to fix this problem for me is try to find some lexan or some kind of glass protection to put in front of the screen.  You think that would be good?

Lexan would be a bad idea in this case... It'll store a lot of static charge... Use glass. Ideally the sort that has an anti static screen and a grounding wire. You can get them for computer monitors.... Not sure about the largest size you can get but that's at least one way to try. Also can't promise that this will cure your problem. The other thing to note is that an anti static screen glass that size will be expensive.

In fact it'd actually be cheaper just to replace the crappy TV set, that's causing the problem.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rdowdy95]

This is the TV I am using.  I have to keep it.  It is too good to get rid of.  I will get some Smoked Lexan and then do the copper wire earth grounded to the PSU around the bezel part.

That or just quit touching the screen while i am playing.

Also should I use solid coper wire???  For this thing around the TV screen?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7631226&type=product&id=1130986501338

[Kevin Mullins]

Form a loop of bare copper wire.... run that right around the edge of your screen. In contact with the screen surface. Tape it on there if you have to. Connect that loop to the earth tag... This might help to prevent the excessive static build up your are suffering from as it will help to drain the static away from the screen.

I was actually thinking of something similar to this as I was reading through the thread, but Fozzy already has the idea going.
Think of it as a sort of miniature lightning rod found on roof tops. (sorta)
The loop will pick up the static electricity as it developes and carry it away to the earth ground. And really I wouldn't think it would need to be a complete loop, just enough wire to poke up and be really close or touching the picture tube.

Also one more thing what if I got a two to three pronged adapter to plug on to the two pronged TV plug.

Those are usually found the other way around by the way.
They are designed to eliminate the ground prong.

Not what you need.

Earth Ground and Neutral are actually shared if you go all the way back to your breaker panel and trace them out.
The neutral is designed to run though whatever the appliance needs to make it function.
But the neutral side in your appliance is NOT a direct ground.
The earth ground is there for a direct route back to the breaker/fuse panel in case of a possible short circuit from the hot side.
More info on this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question110.htm

Anyways...... to me it sounds as if "something" in the tv is not quite right. It should not develope THAT much static electricity on the tube face. Some is normal, but there should be some built in cicuit to remove most of that static buildup. Even a two pronged tv should have all this built into it's cicuitry.

Have you moved your cabinet recently? Bumped it around a bit?
Maybe the dag springs or braids have come loose inside from around the picture tube?
Something along those lines.
Anyone else have a thought on this idea?

[rdowdy95]

I haven't moved it at all.  Through the months of June, and July, and some of August we have had tons of rain for Texas weather.  Now it is getting to be a dryer climate.  I went into the bedroom to check the static on the bedroom tv.  It was pretty bad as well.

The static comes about an inch off the TV.  I can usually feel about that much.  Once my hand gets to be about an inch from the glass that is when I can feel the static. 

I wonder if I don't do the loop, and just maybe like put it along the bottom of the TV screen or maybe at the top.  Like maybe one side of the screen like left or right.  Lightning rod style.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I wonder if I don't do the loop, and just maybe like put it along the bottom of the TV screen or maybe at the top.  Like maybe one side of the screen like left or right.  Lightning rod style.

NO! because of the way it works you need to make it a complete loop to get the best effect from it.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rdowdy95]

Dang just hate the idea of the ugly copper loop.  Maybe I need to start looking at 27inch Arcade monitors with a 15 pin monitor connection.

[DaOld Man]

You can always scotch tape the copper wire loop first, just to make sure it is going to fix the problem.

[travandalex]

Hey Guys.  Hope I'm not too late to jump in on this topic.  I have experienced the same thing, with the result of killing several (expensive!) Happ USB trackball interface boards.  My setup:  homebuilt MDF cabinet, 27" Samsung TV (with picture framing matt for a bezel), Happ 3" trackball, Tornado spinner, 4 way stick (with i-pac), and X-Arcade 2 player panel.  The X-Arcade panel is mounted furthest out from the TV, with the 4-way, trackball and spinner in a line across between it and the TV.  I use the front button on the TV to turn it off an on.  This requires reaching over the trackball and spinner to touch the button.  I would get the same usb/windows 'be-bunk' noises of usb devices disconnecting occasionally (static from tv going down my arm to the spinner and trackball).  In addition, the up/down axis of the trackball has stopped working (and works again only by replacing the board in the trackball).  What tipped me off was when I created a lexan bezel for the TV (a flatscreen - so the bezel was almost touching the screen).  The static buildup was CRAZY.  I've made things better (but not perfect yet) by running a strip of tinfoil (a conductor) around the edge of the screen and grounding it with a wire to the third prong in the power bar.  This runs under a custom bezel cut from the picture framing mat (nice because it is black with a red visible core).  In addition, I've changed the trackball from usb to ps2 (an experiment to see if it helps) and run a ground wire from the trackball to the computer case.  This has stopped the usb random disconnects, and touching the tv screen produces MUCH less static.  Hoping it will also mean no more replacement boards for the usb trackball. 

So in short:

I recommend the ground loop for the tv screen (couldn't find any info on anyone doing this before - so with some trepidation for life and limb, I tried it to success).
Ground the trackball to the pc.

Worked for me so far, and I'm interested in any other suggestions from there.

[johnperkins21]

Dang just hate the idea of the ugly copper loop.  Maybe I need to start looking at 27inch Arcade monitors with a 15 pin monitor connection.

Tape it on there with black electrical tape. Take your time and you'll barely even notice it. Try it with cheap regular tape first because electrical tape will leave a waxy residue that isn't much fun to clean.