And this is why I hate Ebay

[CheffoJeffo]

You got something to add?

Only that I think that Mark is good and wise.

C'mon Jeffo tell me you haven't sniped before.

* CheffoJeffo snipes if he really wants to win the auction and keep the price down.

 

[Malenko]

           

First off you need to shut your pie hole and read what I wrote. Now go back and read it right. I never said sniping, shill bidding, and shield bidding were the same thing, I said I don't like any of them. Then I said auctions end while I'm at work or asleep, yet you call that being lazy.  As for quitting eBay, thats sort of a really asinine comment on your part, I already stated Ive bought and sold a total of about 130 things in 7 years ....thats pretty infrequent use.

I'll quit eBaying as soon as you stop responding to any thread I've posted in.
 

[genesim]

 

No problem.

But it doesn't take a professor to figure out that you have sour apples because you lost an auction, then you come on here for a pity party.

I was only trying to give you advice and you whine like a little girl about it.   Hey its all good.   Keep up your great technique.   All of us will benefit greatly from it.   

As for sleep.   Yeah, alot of auctions are inconvenient.   Get over it.   Not everyone lives in your time zone.

Your disdain for all Sniping, Shilling, Shielding was put in the same sentence.   You stated all were "hurting" ebay.   Now is there any other way to see this?   So you don't think they are all equal....um ok.   But yet you say they are all hurting Ebay.    hmmmmm


Cheffo Jeffo,

Who is Mark?? 

[RayB]

I like sniping... I've won some things thanks to it. The BEST is when I see the OTHER bidder, in real-time, trying to beat my bid, small increments by small increments and then running out of time. I'll admit, sometimes I've lost in similar "shoot-outs" too.

If you're not there for the auction end, then put in your max. If you're there for the end, then play the game.
 

[Havok]

I always snipe if it's something I really want. However, when I do bid (usually in the last 5 seconds) I put my max that I am willing to pay - not just the minimum bid. If someone else does the same, then everybody wins. I just lost a bid on a set of aluminum rims for my TransAm - the other guy had deeper pockets. I bid after him so if I had gone higher, I would have won. Oh well, I found another auction and got the price I was willing to pay.

[genesim]

The BEST is when I see the OTHER bidder, in real-time, trying to beat my bid, small increments by small increments and then running out of time.

Man and I thought I was the only one.   A nervous glee..but a glee all the same. 

[patrickl]

The BEST is when I see the OTHER bidder, in real-time, trying to beat my bid, small increments by small increments and then running out of time.

Man and I thought I was the only one.   A nervous glee..but a glee all the same. 

I don't really enjoy that. It just means you pay more in the end. Anyway, that's exactly the kind of thing which sniping prevents (if you don't snipe too early that is).

[shardian]

What really sucks is when you are just messing around bidding on something you really don't want or need, then actually win it. I've done that several times, most recently on my pin. I just put in a token $1 increment bid knowing it'll just raise the proxy. Sometimes, you actually become high bidder. No problem as of course someone else will bid considering it is selling cheap and there are hours left. Then noone bids and you are screwed (not really, but I think it helps appease the wife).

Another method I have started using is what I call the intimidation technique. Basically, you maintain high bidder status at a minimum level. Someone bids, you keep incrementing until their proxy is beat. You do that a few times and sometimes people will give up on the item because they "know" you'll just keep outbidding them. I kind of think that is what happened on the pinball machine.

[genesim]

What I meant was that all the other "snipers" try to jump in because they are oblivious to just how much I will pay.

Still, I do see your point, and the less of that the better.   

[Malenko]

Your disdain for all Sniping, Shilling, Shielding was put in the same sentence.   You stated all were "hurting" ebay.   Now is there any other way to see this?   So you don't think they are all equal....um ok.   But yet you say they are all hurting Ebay.    hmmmmm

I don't like people with  herpes or you, since I used them in the same sentence they must be equal.

I'm done with this topic, troll away!

[genesim]

Umm try going with a valid comparison "I don't like herpes(shilling) or you(sniping) because they are both hurting mankind(ebay)".

So the deduction is that they are both equal in nature to doing harm enough to mankind that would warrant a comparison.

For your information Equate :  to treat, represent, or regard as equal , equivalent, or COMPARABLE.

Translation.  Equal does not mean equate.    It means that a comparison is drawn that SUGGESTS they are equal(but it doesn't have to be true, which is in your case).   

Your statement was idiotic and proved nothing.   So nice try but wrong again.

Call me a troll all you want, but my reasoning was sound.   

[CheffoJeffo]

I have no problem admitting I was wrong (as you can see in my previous post) but people using the sniping software and shill bidding and sheild bidding....

The fact that you STILL equate sniping and shill bidding show that you haven't learned a thing.

Your disdain for all Sniping, Shilling, Shielding was put in the same sentence. 

Far be it from me to be the voice of reason, but, based on your posts, Malenko's analogy wasn't far off the mark ... and it at least contained a semblance of wit.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Who let the kids out of school early today?

 

[genesim]

Jeffo, gee isn't that surprising.

[u_rebelscum]

I have no problem admitting I was wrong (as you can see in my previous post) but people using the sniping software and shill bidding and sheild bidding....

The fact that you STILL equate sniping and shill bidding show that you haven't learned a thing....

If you equate sniping with shill bidding and you think that is what is hurting ebay....what is right?

IMO, shilling and sniping are very closely related: if no one shill bid, snipping wouldn't be needed as much.  Of course there are other reasons sniping works, including other snipers who are late, less time for another bidder to decide to throw good money after bad, traditional style bidders and newbies who bid minimum raise over current, and the false illusion that losing at a snipe "wastes" less time than losing at an bid placed earlier.

I've bid early, I've sniped, I've won and lost both ways.  And I've stopped.  I don't ebay anymore because of sniping, and most snipers sound like know-it-all-jerks and I don't want to be associated with that type of people (whether or not they're "right"). 

Possible changes that might bring me back include:
a) If a bid is made in last two minutes, extend auction two minutes past last bid (much like a traditional auction "going once, going twice, ah bid by person there, do I hear another, no,  going once, going twice," etc).  eBay said it doesn't want to do this before, and I doubt it will change in the future.
b) Go silent bid style; keep the hard cut off time, but don't post the bid amounts.  Most people don't like this type, even if it's basically the same as if everyone sniped at the last second.
c) ebay greatly increases enforcement against shillers and shielders.  Something on the order of ebay killing all those types after second offense.  And I do mean never to be seen in any way or form in ebay ever again.  Since both are hard to do and are bad for ebay's fees today, I don't see this happening.
d) Add/change other rules that help curb shilling/shielding.  Like if you withdraw a bid you can't bid again on that item, or increasing the minimum bid raise differently for different people depending on how many previous bids on same item (more = higher) and/or how many other people bid between your last bid and this bid (the more the lower).  These two alone are not enough for me though, so


IMO, ebay was cool when it started, but now it's not the deal it was before, with bidders bidding more than the retail of common products, shilling happening left and right, snipers yelling they rule the world, and ebay letting it all happen without a hoot.

Sorry, I'll get off my
Ignore me, and have fun kids.

[DaveMMR]

If I learned anything from this thread it's that people take eBay way too seriously.  And implementations of something similar to u_rebelscum's suggestions are the only way I would treat it on that same level.  Right now, I sell only cheap stuff I'm getting rid of anyway and when I bid, it's usually with a great deal of apathy.  (As I pointed out, I'll usually just bid an absolute maximum I'm willing to pay if I really want something and then go out drinking while waiting for the auction to end).

I don't understand screaming over eBay strategies.  What is that supposed to solve?  Aren't there more important things to fret over? Serious... at the end of the day who really cares? 

[genesim]

a) If a bid is made in last two minutes, extend auction two minutes past last bid (much like a traditional auction "going once, going twice, ah bid by person there, do I hear another, no,  going once, going twice," etc).  eBay said it doesn't want to do this before, and I doubt it will change in the future.

Are you kidding me?   An auction would never frickin' end.

You have a set time...down to the very last second.   Sniping and shilling are not even close to each other.

Enforce penalties to the criminals.   Not the people that play by the rules...using software, their own hand...whatever.

b) Go silent bid style; keep the hard cut off time, but don't post the bid amounts.  Most people don't like this type, even if it's basically the same as if everyone sniped at the last second.

That completely makes no sense.   Who the hell would use the service if they don't even know what to pay!

I agree with the last two though.    But this idea that sniping is bad for ebay is just plain crazy.    Each to their own though.

[DaveMMR]

Are you kidding me?   An auction would never frickin' end.

Of course it would.  It ends when no one wants to spend more money than the highest bidder.  Continually bidding without regard for how much you're actually spending is just plain silly.

b) Go silent bid style; keep the hard cut off time, but don't post the bid amounts.  Most people don't like this type, even if it's basically the same as if everyone sniped at the last second.

That completely makes no sense.   Who the hell would use the service if they don't even know what to pay!

Well the idea is to bid your best offer.  It's almost the same thing with Reserved Price Auctions (you don't know the *real* minimum bid).  It's beginning to seem that hardcore snipers aren't actually aware of the proxy bidding mechanics implemented on eBay since day one.

But this idea that sniping is bad for ebay is just plain crazy.    Each to their own though.

It's bad because it discourages people from selling.  They make no money off the bidders.  And the phrase you're looking for is "to each their own". 

[genesim]

Of course it would.  It ends when no one wants to spend more money than the highest bidder.

Meanwhile...people have lives and you are saying that if I want to sell an item I have to sit around till the dust clears?   A set date of ending is a good thing, not bad.   There are so many problems with this idea.

It's beginning to seem that hardcore snipers aren't actually aware of the proxy bidding mechanics implemented on eBay since day one.

Where is your evidence on that?

A real auction doesn't have silent bidders, and it thankfully isn't the case with Ebay.   A reserved price auction is too limited.

It's bad because it discourages people from selling.

I don't know about your experience, but with my 300+ sales the most money typically is made off the last minute hands down.    The bidders that go back and forth don't generate the revenue, they are mostly penny pinchers which is why they waste the time.

By the way thank you for the attempted correction, but I actually wrote the exact phrase that I meant.  In American English the saying is more common.

I believe the original phrase was "to each his own".   

[DaveMMR]

Of course it would.  It ends when no one wants to spend more money than the highest bidder.

Meanwhile...people have lives and you are saying that if I want to sell an item I have to sit around till the dust clears?   A set date of ending is a good thing, not bad.   There are so many problems with this idea.

It's beginning to seem that hardcore snipers aren't actually aware of the proxy bidding mechanics implemented on eBay since day one.

Where is your evidence on that?

A real auction doesn't have silent bidders, and it thankfully isn't the case with Ebay.   A reserved price auction is too limited.

It's bad because it discourages people from selling.

I don't know about your experience, but with my 300+ sales the most money typically is made off the last minute hands down.    The bidders that go back and forth don't generate the revenue, they are mostly penny pinchers which is why they waste the time.

By the way thank you for the attempted correction, but I actually wrote the exact phrase that I meant.  In American English the saying is more common.

I believe the original phrase was "to each his own".   

Well I guess you're the "King of eBay" then!  Doesn't matter that you're WRONG on getting more money from snipers, especially since you argued that as a buyer, you snipe to SAVE money.  How is that good for you, as a seller who's getting LESS money for something, not to mention not getting any bids on the item until the very end?   I don't know what you mean by "bidders going back and forth", because, umm, don't snipers do that too (just in a shorter amount of time)? 

Seriously, it's silly of me to even reply.  I resist responding knowing it's a waste of time and enegy but the devil keeps finding my idle hands... 

[u_rebelscum]

a) If a bid is made in last two minutes, extend auction two minutes past last bid (much like a traditional auction "going once, going twice, ah bid by person there, do I hear another, no,  going once, going twice," etc).  eBay said it doesn't want to do this before, and I doubt it will change in the future.

Are you kidding me?   An auction would never frickin' end.

You have a set time...down to the very last second.   Sniping and shilling are not even close to each other.

Enforce penalties to the criminals.   Not the people that play by the rules...using software, their own hand...whatever.

Even been to a live auction?  They end, and there's no set time.  Why wouldn't ebay be different?  ("Going once, sorry your bid's too low, going twice, sorry your bid's still too low, gone." and only resetting the time when the bid changes to another person.)

I agree with the last paragraph.  However, I don't see extending the time as "penalizing buyers".  Plus sniping would not work as well as it does (aka not always save as much money every time) if there was no shilling and shielding.  If sellers couldn't go "hey, this got a sucker bite, I'll up it some," you would not always save as much money with sniping.  If shilling happens only 5% of the time, that 5% won't have saved as much.  I'm NOT saying sniping causes shilling.  I'm saying the opposite:

Shilling and shielding promote sniping, because sniping is a way around them.

b) Go silent bid style; keep the hard cut off time, but don't post the bid amounts.  Most people don't like this type, even if it's basically the same as if everyone sniped at the last second.

That completely makes no sense.   Who the hell would use the service if they don't even know what to pay!

Silent auctions (a fairly common method of auctioning): people bid (usually a folded paper or envelope) and no one knows how much others bid until the bids are opened at a set time.  This is how the government projects bids that go to the lowest bidder are run.

If everyone sniped at the last second, no one would know what the other bids were going to be until it was too last to rebid.  (Isn't that the whole reason for sniping?)  All bids would be revealed at the same time (aka T minus one second), and the bid would go the highest bidder.  What's the difference?

The only difference between silent auctions and everyone-snipe-ebay-at-the-last-second, only difference, is that in ebay the winner pays second place + minimum raise (or max bid whichever is lower) and silent auction winner pays the max he bid (usually).

Whether you like silent auctions, as a sniper you are a "silent bidder".  The only difference between a normal silent auction is in ebay the minimum bid is raising to whatever the "early bidders" bid it up to.  Then you and other snipers go and throw in your "silent" bids.

I agree with the last two though.    But this idea that sniping is bad for ebay is just plain crazy.    Each to their own though.

I'm not saying sniping is bad for ebay.  I am saying I don't ebay anymore, and sniping is one of the many reasons.  Others include shilling, shielding, ripoff sellers, rip-off buyers, and no accountability by ebay.

[hypernova]

As a seller, I give out feedback after I receive it!

That should rile some people!

[genesim]

So again, Rebelscum what about if you as a seller actually need money right away?

Also, the blind bidding while not exactly unfair, would still cause less people to want to bid.    Again, it is about convenience of the public and generating interest.

As for sniping go around shilling...this is a good thing, not bad.

Bidding in the last second is perfectly legal, and should be encouraged, not discouraged.    Then your "blind bidding" would be unnecessary.

I think there is far more good then bad with Ebay, and one of the thousand reasons the internet is a cool thing for the world.