So is the Happs 3" trackball with USB worth it?

[javeryh]

The regular 3" trackball is around $100 but the one with the USB cable is $170 - is it really worth the extra money?  Couldn't you just use an optiPac or something to interface the standard one??

[ARTIFACT]

Order from Divemaster127!

I am paying about $100 for my Translucent Blue USB 3" Happs trackball thru him!

[javeryh]

Cool.  How much does he charge for a standard one?  What's the difference between the two?

[ARTIFACT]

I dont know I only asked about USB... I don't remember exactly (I orderd a BUNCH of stuff from him) but it was a little under $100.

PM "Divemaster127" - he'll give you a quote quickly... Tell him I sent you

[golfboyusa]

Hi guys. I've finished my tenth cabinet and have tried many different configurations. I have had marginal success with USB trackballs. Even with a brand new computer, I have experienced lag when playing golden tee or world class bowling. I now purchase only the non usb version and use an optipac. That combination works flawlessly every time. Good luck!

[TOK]

I got the Happ USB/PS-2 combo trackball in translucent red from Tornado Terry's. It was under 90 bucks shipped at the time. Haven't experienced the lag issues with USB. Its 2 years old now, and has held up great. Definitely worth the money.
 

[u_rebelscum]

If you can get the arcade version + an encoder (optipac/optiwiz) for the same price as the USB version, I'd vote go for the seperate encoders.  (Unless you have zero room under the CP, maybe.)

If you can get the USB version for less than arcade + encoder, ehhh [shrug].  The optipac & optiwiz encoders are higher quality than happs USB board, AFAIK, so you have to ask if you want ease of install & cheaper (USB), or higher quality & better support (encoders). 

I am very satisfied with my USB optipac, and haven't had problems with my TB arcade sensor boards.

[ARTIFACT]

well if it doesnt work as expected with my computer, ill ship it back to divemaster127

I also ordered a Turbo Twist 2 spinner, and I could plug a regular Happ trackball to it (and use the TT2 as an interface) IF the usb one doesn't perform as expected

[ARTIFACT]

I got the Happ USB/PS-2 combo trackball in translucent red from Tornado Terry's. It was under 90 bucks shipped at the time. Haven't experienced the lag issues with USB. Its 2 years old now, and has held up great. Definitely worth the money.
 

good to know it's not slow/bad for everyone!

[javeryh]

Thanks guys - I guess I'll go with whatever is cheaper - I'm leaning towards the TB + optipac solution though.

[ahofle]

Search the boards here.  I seem to recall quite a few issues with the Happs USB trackballs compared to the ones that use a separate encoder.

[scotthh]

If you're going to have a spinner and a trackball, you can use one encoder for both and there is no reason not to buy the cheaper regular (non-USB) trackball.

Artifact's TurboTwist 2 comes with an Opti-Wiz Interface which can support the TT2 and a trackball (that's what I have). If you don't have the parts or desire to make an interconnect for the trackball, buy one when you buy your TT2.

The Optipac supports up to "two trackballs and 4 spinners/rotary joysticks."

[Green Giant]

Thanks guys - I guess I'll go with whatever is cheaper - I'm leaning towards the TB + optipac solution though.

That is the smarter action to take.  Everything I have read in the past about the usb trackball is bad.   It isn't that they don't work, it is just the sampling time isn't fast enough to keep up with really big hitters in golden tee.  Go for the opti-wiz/pac and nonusb trackball.

[javeryh]

OK, I'll definitely go that route - I'm going to be installing a spinner on the CP as well so I'll go with an encoder.  I'm curious about checking out the TT2 but I LOVE my Tornado and was planning on ordering another one... unless someone talks me out of it because it's so expensive...

[TOK]

Thanks guys - I guess I'll go with whatever is cheaper - I'm leaning towards the TB + optipac solution though.

That is the smarter action to take.  Everything I have read in the past about the usb trackball is bad.   It isn't that they don't work, it is just the sampling time isn't fast enough to keep up with really big hitters in golden tee.  Go for the opti-wiz/pac and nonusb trackball.

Somehow, I missed the comments about the USB version being bad, but now I'm interested in the topic. Since the USB version also includes a PS-2 plug, is it also bad when connected to that?
I'm amazed to learn I'm one of the few that's had a good experience with the Happ USB since mine has been rock solid for all games, Golden Tee included.

[xmenxmen]

And if you want to save a few more bucks and don't mind used, ebay has tons going from 15 to 40 bucks.  I had a few good result the last few times I have purchased them.  Just a bit of cleaning will do wonders to them.

[u_rebelscum]

Somehow, I missed the comments about the USB version being bad, but now I'm interested in the topic. Since the USB version also includes a PS-2 plug, is it also bad when connected to that?
I'm amazed to learn I'm one of the few that's had a good experience with the Happ USB since mine has been rock solid for all games, Golden Tee included.

Some people have bad luck with the USB/PS2 versions, and have posted here asking for help.  Many of those worked fine for a time and then started having problems, others had the problems from the beginning.  The arcade version, OTOH, doesn't have a perfect record either, and many people haven't had problems with the USB versions.  Even so, is seems the USB/PS2 boards are, in general, not as good as the optipac/optiwiz encoders, going just by the number posts asking for help here. 

The cause of the problems shouldn't be due to if it's in USB mode or PS/2 mode as it's all on the same chip AKAIK, and that many people with problems had it working fine at first.  But I've seem weirder reasons.

Running theories include happs USB boards more sensitive to static, to shock, to shorts due to dust, poor solderings, and/or good and bad batches.

[DaOld Man]

Here's my 2 cents worth:
I have built 3 cabinets thus far.
My first did not have a trackball. (A mistake I plan to correct as soon as I get the spare time.)
For my second cabinet I bought a used happ track ball off ebay.
It had no interface, so I took a very cheap USB mouse and hacked it.
The trackball worked fine, but it wouldnt work until a few minutes after the computer booted up.
The screen also flashed a mouse error for a few seconds while booting, and that just irked me to no end. I tried to get rid of the error by tweaking the bios, but I couldnt seem to get rid of it.
So I took another cheap mouse, but this time a PS2 and hacked it.
The trackball worked great. It starts to work even before the front end appears.
On my third cabinet I went ahead and hacked a PS2 mouse to it. It works good.
I dont know why no one likes to hack a mouse, the mice cost me about 3 bucks each off the net, which is a lot cheaper than a specially made interface such as optipac.
My fourth cabinet is in the works now, and it will have a happ trackball using a hacked PS2 mouse.
None of my cabinets thus far have a spinner, so maybe there is where the mouse hack would be un-desirable?

[golfboyusa]

The USB trackball would give me problems even if I used the PS2 mouse plug. I had been on the phone with a Happ tech a few times. He said the USB trackball has a board built for it that they have no control over. It it not capable of registring high rpm spins.

Green Giant is right on the money. The optipac is the way to go.

 

[AndyWarne]

An often overlooked issue about the Happ trackballs is conventional vs High-Ball. I must confess to some bias here since we sell the high-ball type only, as I believe the small additional cost is well worth it in terms of playability. Its something worth thinking about though.
Andy

[ARTIFACT]

OK so apparently the USB trackballs that don't perform well are the PREVIOUS GENERATION of the USB encoder board... There is a "v2" encoder built-in the newer Happ USB trackballs... which is what I ordered.

[u_rebelscum]

An often overlooked issue about the Happ trackballs is conventional vs High-Ball. I must confess to some bias here since we sell the high-ball type only, as I believe the small additional cost is well worth it in terms of playability. Its something worth thinking about though.

Yes, good point.  It's a matter of opinion.  Especially since I don't like the high-ball model.

I would use the high-ball model if it was going to buried under plexi/CPO/mounting plate/wood to about the same height as a high-lip/normal TB, but that's why I don't bury TBs in the first place.  But don't confuse the high-ball with the high-lip (aka golden tee TB).

I know many here love the high-ball, but why?   It bruises my fingers and pops off the rollers way more that the high-lip & normal TBs do, due to the way I use the TB, I guess.

[mrudie]

Okay, this thread has been extremely helpful to me, but I have a question.

I have a 3" Happs Translucent Blue Trackball in my SlikStik Control Panel. The cord that comes out of the control panel has a USB/PS2 end.

I'm experiencing problems with Golden Tee on hard spins.

Here are my questions:

If I bought an Opti-Wiz, would this fix my problem? Or won't it work because I have a USB/PS2 end?

Would cleaning the trackball help at all? If so, HOW do I clean it?

Thanks...

[ahofle]

I know many here love the high-ball, but why?   It bruises my fingers and pops off the rollers way more that the high-lip & normal TBs do, due to the way I use the TB, I guess.

I think I'm probably the only one around here that favors the highball.  Perhaps it's the way I operate the trackball, but I find I have way more control because more of the ball's surface area is available to manipulate, especially with precision games like Centipede.  I've never once had it come off the rollers (even with Golden Tee type games), so I'm not sure what you mean there.

[superart]

edit

[Kremmit]

I know many here love the high-ball, but why?   It bruises my fingers and pops off the rollers way more that the high-lip & normal TBs do, due to the way I use the TB, I guess.

I think I'm probably the only one around here that favors the highball.  Perhaps it's the way I operate the trackball, but I find I have way more control because more of the ball's surface area is available to manipulate, especially with precision games like Centipede.  I've never once had it come off the rollers (even with Golden Tee type games), so I'm not sure what you mean there.

I have the same complaints as U_rebel with the highball.  I just do better with a standard height ball. 

Just another of those things that all comes down to personal preference; it's not like they're different in any aspect other than the height of the ball. 

And back on topic, I'd go for a separate encoder.  Too many complaints about the Happ USB board, and all of the aftermarket encoders have more capabilities to boot. 

[ARTIFACT]

I love my USB trackball!

(answering the original question, after about 1 month of playing the one I got)

If you buy a NEW usb trackball (happ) now, you get a SECOND GENERATION ENCODER in it... so no lag or other problems. works VERY well.

[mrudie]

I love my USB trackball!

(answering the original question, after about 1 month of playing the one I got)

If you buy a NEW usb trackball (happ) now, you get a SECOND GENERATION ENCODER in it... so no lag or other problems. works VERY well.

What HAPPS should do is upgrade people with old trackballs that don't work for a hill of beans.  I'm completely and totally sick of dealing with my Happs 3" Translucent trackball.  The backspin in this trackball makes a lot of games completely unplayable.

I'm hoping to move to the Electric Ice-T, but I'm unsure if it will mount perfectly in place of my HAPPS.  Any thoughts or opinions on that?  Also, does anyone own an Electric Ice-T that can give me their opinion? How does Golden Tee play? Is there any backspin with this trackball?

Thanks....

[Kremmit]

The Ice-T is built in a Betson trackball housing, or one just like it.  The bolt patterns are the same as Happ trackballs, but the casing is shaped differently.  So the answer depends on your particular control panel- is there anything there that might interfere with a different housing?

[mrudie]

The Ice-T is built in a Betson trackball housing, or one just like it.  The bolt patterns are the same as Happ trackballs, but the casing is shaped differently.  So the answer depends on your particular control panel- is there anything there that might interfere with a different housing?

Thanks for the reply.  My control panel is a pre-fab, and as such, I beleive the trackball cutout was made to fit a lot of different options. There's plenty of room inside the control panel for adjustments or fine tuning of placement.

Here's a picture of the cutout on the control panel:



Here's a picture of the Happs trackball mounted:



Do you think I'd be able to use the same mounting plate on top?

Do you have any experience with the Betson or Electric Ice-T? I just want to be sure there's no backspin with those trackballs, and that they feel as solid as the Happs. The Happs does have a nice solid, quality feel to it, and you can spin it good.

I'm hoping the Electric Ice-T has the same feel, spins good, and has no backspin! I've never been able to play Golden Tee in my cab because of the Happs.

[robot8319]

this is coming from nowhere but for $60 shipped you can get an already built x-arcade trackball with 6 buttons on ebay..

[Kremmit]

That cutout looks like a Betson should fit fine.  Of course, it's always hard to tell from a photo on the web.  If it doesn't fit, you'd probably just have to remove a little bit of wood in a few places to fix it.  The mounting plate might work, but I think Happ makes slightly different plates for the standard trackball vs. the high-ball.  If the one you've got doesn't fit, you ought to be able to get a similar plate that will relatively cheaply.

As for the feel:  I don't have an Ice-T, and every Betson I've ever had was used, so I can't make a direct comparison.  Others have stated that Betson's don't spin quite as long as Happ, but that a bearing cleaning and re-lube will fix that.  Or you could swap in the bearings from your Happ.  Or it might not matter to you.  At any rate, they're definitely a solid unit.  And the Ice-T has Randy's trackball booster kit installed- those are upgraded, higher resolution encoder wheels.  I do have a set of those, and I highly recommend them, even if you decide to stick with your Happ.  They rock.

...But, now that I think about it:

You don't need to buy the whole Ice-T if you don't want to.  The Electric Ice-T currently sells for $109.95, but you can upgrade your Happ for less.

This will get you the purty ball and fancy lighting, just swap the ball into your Happ housing and mount the lighting underneath:
Ice-T ball and lighting kit for $29.95

This comes with the Ice-T complete unit, and will upgrade the performance of your Happ unit.  I recommend them for anybody with a trackball, whether they want fancy lights or not.  They're great.
Trackball Booster kit for $9.95

This is the controller used with the Ice-T complete unit, and will replace the Happ USB controller, if you're not happy with it's performance.  If it's working OK for you as is, you can just keep the Happ unit.
Opti-Wiz for $14.95

This just makes it easier to hook up the Opti-Wiz above, if you buy one.  You can go without if you're handy with wiring and solder.
Trackball wiring harness for $12.95

You'd only need this if you're hooking up mouse buttons (I don't see holes for any on the CP photo you posted, but just in case) to the Opti-Wiz, if purchased.  Again, you can go without if you're handy with wiring and solder.
Mouse Button wiring harness for $9.95

If my math is right, even if you bought all of the above it would only cost you $77.75 to upgrade your Happ.  And you can probably skip some of those parts and get it done even cheaper, depending on what you want and your skill level/willingness to learn.

Food for thought:  If you take the upgrade path, you won't have a complete Happ trackball leftover that you could potentially sell or re-use in another project, so there's that to consider as well.

[mrudie]

Kremmit, WOW, thanks so much for such a detailed and thourough response!

The main reason that I'm even going through all of this is the terrible backspin I'm experiencing with the Happs. Even in Windows if I spin the ball hard, it goes about halfway up the screen, backspins for a good few seconds, and then rolls to the top of the screen.

It has made it impossible to play games like Golden Tee.

I'm willing to spend the $109.95 on the Electric Ice-T if I knew I wouldn't see that kind of ridiculous backspin!! (And also that it would fit into my panel relatively easily.

My other concern is the wiring that needs to be done.  I'm hoping it will simply be a matter of using what's there to wire the Happs, and it's simply a matter of swapping them out.

Have you had any experience or knowledge that the Betson (Electric Ice-T) does not have this kind of backspin and that it plays games like Golden Tee nicely?

Even thought I don't care for the Happs, I'm sure I could get some $$$ for it or save it for another project.

[Kremmit]

Backspin occurs when the teeth on the encoder wheel pass through the optics faster than your optics -or- interface -or- PC can read them.  Backspin problems are usually cured in software -or- by replacing your interface -or- by replacing your optic boards.  Happ red optic boards are the "nicest" ones on the market, and if those are what you've got, they probably are not your problem.  I'd try your PC first, since that's free.  You should turn off all the mouse pointer acceleration and drop the sensitivity in Windows.  MAME sensitivity shouldn't be jacked way up- 100 or less is best.  I'm really not an expert on the software side, but maybe somebody else will come along with more tips on that.

If you can't get the backspin fixed in software, upgrading from the Happ USB interface to the Opti-Wiz or an Opti-Pac from Ultimarc would be my next step.  If you buy the Ice-T, it comes with an Opti-Wiz interface, but buying the interface alone is sure cheaper.

[mrudie]

Backspin occurs when the teeth on the encoder wheel pass through the optics faster than your optics -or- interface -or- PC can read them.  Backspin problems are usually cured in software -or- by replacing your interface -or- by replacing your optic boards.  Happ red optic boards are the "nicest" ones on the market, and if those are what you've got, they probably are not your problem.  I'd try your PC first, since that's free.  You should turn off all the mouse pointer acceleration and drop the sensitivity in Windows.  MAME sensitivity shouldn't be jacked way up- 100 or less is best.  I'm really not an expert on the software side, but maybe somebody else will come along with more tips on that.

I have tried everything I possibly can on the software side.  My Happs is over 2 years old, and I don't think it has the "red" optic board.  I'm guessing I'm going to have to open my control panel up, and call Happs support, but I really don't think it's the red optic board.

If you can't get the backspin fixed in software, upgrading from the Happ USB interface to the Opti-Wiz or an Opti-Pac from Ultimarc would be my next step.  If you buy the Ice-T, it comes with an Opti-Wiz interface, but buying the interface alone is sure cheaper.

This is what I originally wanted to do, but Randy told me replacing the optic board with an Opti-Wiz is NOT the easiest thing to do. I almost got the impression it was not advisable?  I was hoping that was the easiest way out, but I guess not?? 

Right now I'm leaning towards just purchasing a brand new Electric Ice-T, and replacing my Happs, but I'm still waiting for a reply from Randy on some questions I had.  If I knew for sure that the Electric Ice-T would not have any backspin issues, and that I could easily drop it into the place of my Happs (mounting and wiring) I would order it today probably.

[Kremmit]

Oh, interesting. 

... but Randy told me replacing the optic board with an Opti-Wiz is NOT the easiest thing to do. I almost got the impression it was not advisable?  I was hoping that was the easiest way out, but I guess not??

 

This prompted me to go have a look at the Happ USB interface; I'd never actually seen one before.  Looks like it consists of one regular optic board and one board that includes the optics and the interface.  The regular optic board would probably hook to an Opti-Wiz just fine, but the second one with the interface would be a booger. 

You could still go get a pair of regular optic boards from this guy and an Opti-Wiz from Randy.  You'd also have some wiring to do, because it looks like the Happ USB interface replaces the standard trackball wiring harness.  That's not so hard, and it's sure a lot cheaper.  But it's up to you- those Ice-T units sure are purty, and there's something to be said for just buying the thing and not having any hassle.

Whatever you do, good luck!

[mrudie]

Kremmit, thanks for all your input on this! It has helped me tremendously.

I'll let you know what I decide to do.  I hope to hear back from Randy soon, as I'm leaning towards just placing an order with him for the Electric Ice-T.

[u_rebelscum]

...My control panel is a pre-fab, and as such, I beleive the trackball cutout was made to fit a lot of different options. There's plenty of room inside the control panel for adjustments or fine tuning of placement.

Here's a picture of the cutout on the control panel:...

Do you think I'd be able to use the same mounting plate on top?

Do you have any experience with the Betson ...?

The Betson case is bigger than the happs case.  I think you're going to have to at least chop the lower right corner to might the upper left (betson cases are symmetrical in both diagonals).  Doing a quick look at your pictures, if the mounting plate you have has a 3" hole, you might need to increase the edges a little too (but  the betson TB case will fit the plate perfectly).  Do you have the extra dimensions of the hole in the CP and the mounting plate?