wico joystick question

[gatordad]

I just recieved a few NOS wico joys from ebay, however they don't have grommets inside they have springs instead.
Q 1.
Is there any difference in design between the two (are the grommets and springs interchangeable?)
This is my fist wico so I am unsure.
Q 2.
Where is your favorite place to get replacement leaf switchs when that time comes
Thanks GD

[leapinlew]

You sure thats a wico? Post a pic, or a link to the auction. Sounds like a lead-filled chinese knock off to me.

[Kremmit]

The top half of the Wico base is different in that:  Spring versions have a cylinder of plastic protruding down from the top that the spring wraps around, keeping it centered.  Grommet versions do not have this. 

The bottom part is different in that:  Spring versions have a raised circle in the center that the spring rests against; Grommet versions do not have this.

Then there are the different small parts:  Spring versions have metal handle spacers, pivot cones, a square spacer that screws in the middle where the grommet would be, main springs (duh!), spring-bottom washers and lower plastic handle spacers.  Grommet versions have none of these parts, but they do have the grommet (again, duh!), the metal interior washer and interior plastic washer.

Other differences:  4-way sticks have diamond shaped holes for the handle to pass through, 8-way versions have a round hole.  Microswitch versions have screw holes for the microswitches; Leafswitch versions have pop-in holders for the leafswitches.  Microswitch versions have a square actuator; Leafswitch versions have a round actuator.  8-way leafswitch versions have a large round actuator (distinguished by the little "step" at one end), 4-way versions have a smaller round actuator with no "step" (e.g., it's the same diameter all the way from end to end).

You could convert from spring to grommet easily enough; just file the cylindrical protrusion on the top portion of the base until the grommet fits.  Flip the lower spring washer upside down and it ought to replace the interior metal washer just fine.  You can skip the interior plastic washer altogether.  The small spring, actuator, and e-clip can all be re-used.

Converting the other way (grommet to spring) would be pretty tough; you'd have to change so many parts that all you'd really be doing is swapping the handle and a few small parts from the grommet-based stick to a spring-based one.

As for replacement leafswitches; if yours are truly NOS, then they shouldn't need replacing anytime in this decade or the next unless you do something dumb.  But LizardLick Amusements recently posted suggesting they might have them.  The trick is to find the little white plastic protector part that keeps the joystick actuator from rubbing directly on the switches- I dunno if LizardLick has those or not.

*edit- added missing square spacer from spring version small parts

[Kremmit]

Lew-

I've never seen a knockoff with a spring; they always have grommets (that fit too loose, I might add).  Wico did make spring sticks in their later years, though.

[leapinlew]

Lew-

I've never seen a knockoff with a spring; they always have grommets (that fit too loose, I might add).  Wico did make spring sticks in their later years, though.

Good to know, thanks Kremmit.

[XtraSmiley]

Post pics.  I believe Bob Roberts had leafs last time I bought from him, but that was a year or two ago so not sure about current inventory.

[gatordad]

The top half of the Wico base is different in that:  Spring versions have a cylinder of plastic protruding down from the top that the spring wraps around, keeping it centered.  Grommet versions do not have this. 

The bottom part is different in that:  Spring versions have a raised circle in the center that the spring rests against; Grommet versions do not have this.

Then there are the different small parts:  Spring versions have metal handle spacers, pivot cones, springs (duh!), spring-bottom washers and lower plastic spacers.  Grommet versions have none of these parts, but they do have the grommet (again, duh!), the metal interior washer and interior plastic washer.

Other differences:  4-way sticks have diamond shaped holes for the handle to pass through, 8-way versions have a round hole.  Microswitch versions have screw holes for the microswitches; Leafswitch versions have pop-in holders for the leafswitches.  Microswitch versions have a square actuator; Leafswitch versions have a round actuator.  8-way leafswitch versions have a large round actuator (distinguished by the little "step" at one end), 4-way versions have a smaller round actuator with no "step" (e.g., it's the same diameter all the way from end to end).

You could convert from spring to grommet easily enough; just file the cylindrical protrusion on the top portion of the base until the grommet fits.  Flip the lower spring washer upside down and it ought to replace the interior metal washer just fine.  You can skip the interior plastic washer altogether.  The small spring, actuator, and e-clip can all be re-used.

Converting the other way (grommet to spring) would be pretty tough; you'd have to change so many parts that all you'd really be doing is swapping the handle and a few small parts from the grommet-based stick to a spring-based one.

As for replacement leafswitches; if yours are truly NOS, then they shouldn't need replacing anytime in this decade or the next unless you do something dumb.  But LizardLick Amusements recently posted suggesting they might have them.  The trick is to find the little white plastic protector part that keeps the joystick actuator from rubbing directly on the switches- I dunno if LizardLick has those or not.

Excellent, very detailed, Thank you!

[gatordad]

Does any one have a instructions sheet for the grommet version that they could post or link to?

[Kremmit]

I've got these; they don't show the internals so they're probably not much good to you, but I might as well upload 'em anyway.  I see instruction sheets for your microswitch models, any chance you could scan and upload them? 

Also, your picture reminded me of one other part that differs; I've added it to my post above- it's the square plastic spacer that screws in between the top and bottom halves of the joystick base, right where the grommet would otherwise go.

And last, do I see two different actuators in the picture you posted?  One appears to be the regular square shaped one I expected, but the other looks like a little cone shaped thing instead.  Is that a 4-way actuator for a microswitch-based stick?  I've never seen one like that before.  Also, I see two different pivot cones; one grey and one black.  Do your instruction sheets say what's up with those?

[SavannahLion]

The trick is to find the little white plastic protector part that keeps the joystick actuator from rubbing directly on the switches- I dunno if LizardLick has those or not.

Couldn't you fashion your own? Thin sheets of stiff plastic (such as styrene) can be easily had at any decently stocked model store.

[gatordad]

I've got these; they don't show the internals so they're probably not much good to you, but I might as well upload 'em anyway.  I see instruction sheets for your microswitch models, any chance you could scan and upload them? 

Also, your picture reminded me of one other part that differs; I've added it to my post above- it's the square plastic spacer that screws in between the top and bottom halves of the joystick base, right where the grommet would otherwise go.

And last, do I see two different actuators in the picture you posted?  One appears to be the regular square shaped one I expected, but the other looks like a little cone shaped thing instead.  Is that a 4-way actuator for a microswitch-based stick?  I've never seen one like that before.  Also, I see two different pivot cones; one grey and one black.  Do your instruction sheets say what's up with those?

The pivoting bushing is used in spring return style sticks only see attached scan of the requested microswitch assembly instructions
I also took a  picture of all of the actuators that I have
I don't know what cone shaped actuator is for, does anyone here know whats up with this?

[Kremmit]

Interesting stuff.  (well, interesting for a very small number of joystick geeks, anyway)  The instruction sheet shows 3 different actuators:  Leaf-type, Micro-type, and their new "floating" type.  I've got some sticks with the "floating" one on there, but I never knew if they belonged there or if some operator had ganked them from some other kind of stick.  I especially like this quote from the sheet:

Since the Joystick applicaton in some of the new video games require switch activation only when initiated by the player, WICO has designed a new "floating" actuator which will not activate any of the micro switches when handle assembly is rotated during play.

 

Apparently older games were okay with switch activation which was not initiated by the player. 

That cone-shaped actuator is still a mystery, but I've got a hypothesis (assumes the diameter and taper of the cone is the same as that on the square):

First, there were leafswitch sticks, with a cylindrical actuator, and everything worked fine.  Then, there were microswitch sticks, with the square actuator.  People could accidentally actuate a switch with these by twisting the handle, so Wico invented the two-piece "floating" actuator.  My guess is that the cone-shaped actuator came next, as a one-piece replacement for the two-piece floating unit.  It would be cheaper to produce, and ought to avoid the accidental activation problem of the original square units.  And being the most recent design, that might explain why we don't see them more often; Wico may not have produced very many of those before they went out of business.