Possible To Remove Diagonals From 4-Way Roms via Software?

[lettuce]

For games like PAC-MAN etc is it possible through mame (or other software) to remove the diagonal inputs for 4 way games, so in essence you have a 4-way stick as none of the diagonals register??

[*ShAgGy*]

im no expert on this but,
ok so assume you want to take the diagonals out with mame
you can simply assign non usuable keys to diagonals,
the joysticks will create a diagonal when pressed that way reguardless dont they?
hope this helps, coz im not 100% of what you mean

[Dexter]

To the best of my knowledge you can't do this because a diagonal is read as two input lines by mame i.e. diagonal top left is up and left switches pressed at the same time. Feel free to correct me on this guys.

Best solution is to grab a small 4-way stick if you're making or modifying a panel. I installed one on my cab and it made a hell of a difference. Doesn't take up much panel real estate either.

[fjl]

Basically, the joystick registers when you press up and also when you press right. It also registers when you press both up and right. That's known as a diagonal movement.

So he wants to know if its possible to set up through mame, that when you press up-right on the joystick, it doesn't trigger as a diagonal direction press but instead registers only in one direction instead of both.

I'd like to see this myself. It should be done this way;

While pressing left, you slide the joystick up. For an instant it will register as left-up. What the mame software should do is to make it so that it never registers as left-up but instead just registers as up. This actually seems simple. I'm surprised the MAME guys haven't came up with something like this for 4-way games. Of course I don't really know about programming so I can't say they haven't already thought of this and tried and where not successful.

[Joystick Jerk]

What would the point be? It's not like suddenly hitting a diagonal would send Pac-Man off on a diagonal slant. In a sense the diagonals are already disabled, as the game is ignoring them.

The only way to get TRUE 4-way action is to use a 4-way stick.

I'd like to see this myself. It should be done this way;

While pressing left, you slide the joystick up. For an instant it will register as left-up. What the mame software should do is to make it so that it never registers as left-up but instead just registers as up. This actually seems simple. I'm surprised the MAME guys haven't came up with something like this for 4-way games. Of course I don't really know about programming so I can't say they haven't already thought of this and tried and where not successful.

Impossible. Well, not technically, but practically. A diagonal is the half-way point between two cardinal directions, there are no degrees of how diagonal the stick is pointing(with standard 8 ways). Say you're pressing right, and then go to press up, and hit a diagonal in the process. Mame is now reading a diagonal up/right direction, but how would mame know whether you meant to truly press up or to the right? It can't predict which way you're going to go eventually, so it couldn't translate a diagonal into your intended direction.

Of course they could hard code something that tells mame to register a directional press based on the diagonals, taking the direction you weren't just pressing previously, but then that causes all sorts of problems when you accidentally hit a diagonal and now your character is moving in a direction you never intended.

[unclet]

I mounted an 8-way joystick into a diamond-shaped hole (rather than in a standard 1-1/8" circle hole) so it could be used as a 4-way stick only.   Basically the diagonals do not register.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe all 4-way stick games simply ignore the diagonal input.  I think some games "freak out" when simultaneous inputs are detected at once.

[*ShAgGy*]

actually thinking about it, say if you were using an actual arcade joystick,
i remember the old plastic sticks had the options to change to a unique 4 way directions with no diagonals
i know this is a lil left field but it just sprung to my mind actually lol
i cant seem to find a pic of it atm, but thats if of course looking for another alternative.

[Lilwolf]

MAME already does this... Has for about 4 years.

before that you would press left, up, up, down, down (left, not up, not down) for left (and same for all others).

But it doesn't help that much... It just removes the weird stuff that happens since the original code didn't handle it (frogger for instance did weird things on diagonals).  You still have the huge dead zones.

There are some great 4way joysticks cheap enought these days.  Consider getting one if you have room.  Or possibly a swap control panel solution...  Or just be happy with what you have

[ringram]

Mario will stop moving in Donkey Kong if you hit a diagonal.

I've looked at the whole 4-way issue, and IMO, a dedicated TRUE 4-way is the way to go. A pacman reunion stick is less than $20, an Ultimarc J-Stick is about $16. If you don't want a dedicated 4-way, than put in a mag stick plus, it's 4/8-way switchable from the top of the panel, so are a few others.

[SavannahLion]

MAME already does this... Has for about 4 years.

before that you would press left, up, up, down, down (left, not up, not down) for left (and same for all others).

HUH?

Try as I might, I have no clue what you're saying there.

[shorthair]

Seems lilwolf and myself are some of the very few who either know about this, remember it, or just don't care about it. How bout this way (I've just recently explained this, here) :

Say, you start with UP. Press <enter>. Press <up>. Very shortly after, press <left> twice, then <right> twice. (It's the commas in lilwolf's post that confuse.) In the menu, it'll say UP not LEFT not RIGHT.

Or, you can do each one, individually. <up> <left><left>; <up> <right><right> . In the menu it'll say UP not LEFT or UP not RIGHT. Either way it works the same.

Yes, you'll notice physical deadspots, as there is no physical restriction being used. I have P360s, so it's not much different than 8-way, though still noticable. Depends on your preference combined with overall effort an all.

[Kaytrim]

Say, you start with UP. Press <enter>. Press <up>. Very shortly after, press <left> twice, then <right> twice. (It's the commas in lilwolf's post that confuse.) In the menu, it'll say UP not LEFT not RIGHT.

Or, you can do each one, individually. <up> <left><left>; <up> <right><right> . In the menu it'll say UP not LEFT or UP not RIGHT. Either way it works the same.

shorthair, this is the missing link that I have been looking for since I started using MAME.  With this setup using the menus I should be able to use a Happ Competition for both 4-way and 8-way easily.   That is if I understand what you are saying correctly.  I am going to try this out later and if it works it opens the doors on a few ideas I have floating around.

(bookmarks post for future reference)
TTFN
Kaytrim

[ahofle]

It does work, but not nearly as well as you might think (ie as well as a physically restricted stick).  With this trick, you will basically have fairly large deadzones (if you hit a diagonal, nothing at all happens).  A good physical restricted stick (IMO) has very little deadzone.  I remember trying this trick out on Assault hoping it would allow me to play it with two 8 way sticks.  It didn't work very well though and my tank was constantly getting 'stuck' when I'd accidentally hit a diagonal.

[Kaytrim]

ahofle, you are saying that this is not an ideal solution then.  If that is the case then the only sticks that are ideal for multiple formats are the 49-way with the GPWiz49 or the U360.

Kaytrim

[ahofle]

Well don't take my word for it...you should definitely give it a try.  I wasn't too happy with it though.
IMO the ideal stick would be a physically restricted U360/GPWiz49 that allowed you to change the restrictor plate above the CP from 4 to 8 way.  Oh and with a rotary function and swappable flight stick handles.  I'm not asking for too much am I? 

[Kaytrim]

The need for a physical restrictor is a personal preference based on feel.  There is a rotary attachment available for the Midway 49 sticks and I am seriously considering getting them.  Randy has also stated that it will be an option on his new sticks and interface card.

Kaytrim

[shorthair]

ahofle, you are saying that this is not an ideal solution then.  If that is the case then the only sticks that are ideal for multiple formats are the 49-way with the GPWiz49 or the U360.

Kaytrim

I thought I inferred that. As for others, I'm waiting for a couple things on the U360's, first. Randy's 49-way we don't know, yet. I'm wondering if it leaps the old, attached-underneath method. I've thought of all kinds of designs for various types of controls. I don't have the know-how and resources Andy and Randy do to know if some of them would work, let alone how to engineer them. You can be sure, if I somehow fall into some substantial fundage, I'm going to be giving them a ring.