Author Topic: Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards (Read 990760 times)

bent98 · « **Reply #1920 on:** July 19, 2010, 06:53:43 am »

your awsome.

Would it be too much trouble to PM me 138 32bit command line version to test on my rig?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1921 on:** July 19, 2010, 07:21:56 am »

Should be possible as soon as I get home

bent98 · « **Reply #1922 on:** July 19, 2010, 09:19:18 am »

Sweet thanks!

Zebidee · « **Reply #1923 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:41:32 am »

Try the Low Res Modeline Generator (LRMC):

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lrmc/

megaman7 · « **Reply #1924 on:** July 20, 2010, 09:25:13 am »

Hi,
I'm trying to get Mameui to look decent on an LCD. I saw a while back (page 18 I think) that SailorSat posted a few image effects for the artwork folder in mame. I believe they were called Triad3 and Triad6. The links appear to be dead. Is there anywhere I can grab these files?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1925 on:** July 20, 2010, 10:50:14 am »

@megaman: try http://images.arianchen.de/?x=filter

@bent: try http://files.arianchen.de/cabmame.zip

bent98 · « **Reply #1926 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:34:23 pm »

Thanks! Question for you. This version does work if I add the resolution via the specific roms .ini file. IS there anyway to complie mame to havethese games set to 640x480 via the auto setting in mame? If I dont make an .ini file and set resolution and leave it on auto, my monitor cant sync to those games.

Only reason I am asking is to avoid having to create a custom .ini file for each mame rom.

SailorSat · « **Reply #1927 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:37:36 pm »

What resolution does MAME choose? Oo
Usually I add height and weight of all screen and then (depending on vertical or horizontal layout) divide one value by the number of screens.

dual 320x240 should either come out in 640x240 (horizontal) or 320x480 (vertical), then mame searches for some resolution.

bent98 · « **Reply #1928 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:51:40 pm »

on auto it doesnt sync so I dont know what resoultion its trying.

bent98 · « **Reply #1929 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:53:09 pm »

my Monitor is horizontal layout. Billabs 27 inch multisync

wilch · « **Reply #1930 on:** July 21, 2010, 05:22:30 am »

Quote

The R9200 won't do 320*X Modes in Windows. They get added as 321*X

Other than that, the 320x200 and 320x240 modelines won't work on a TV as they are...
a) doublescanned
b) have a pixelclock way too high
c) at least one has positive vsync polarity

Also please note, the "real" VGA mode (320x200) is actually 70Hz refresh, and most TV (and even my beloved Commodore 1084) won't do these

oh dear this is very bad! isn't this the most commonly used resolution for old school gaming like PSX, genesis, dosbox? is there no way to display 321x* on a 50/60hz TV with the vga-scart cable?

also back to my colour problem, here is a list of resolutions that show colours perfectly and ones that are dominantly green:

good colours:
288 x 240
296 x 240
304 x 240
352 x 288
368 x 240
384 x 288
448 x 240
512 x 240
512 x 288
512 x 448
512 x 512

green tint:
240 x 240
256 x 240
256 x 256
256 x 264
336 x 240
352 x 256
392 x 240
632 x 264
640 x 240
640 x 288
640 x 480
720 x 240
720 x 288
720 x 480
800 x 600

SailorSat · « **Reply #1931 on:** July 21, 2010, 07:18:23 am »

Stop - I was talking about the modelines you posted for 320x240. They won't work on a TV.

The stock modelines of Soft-15kHz work fine.
Don't worry about 321x240. Pretty much every emulator will ignore the extra one pixel.

Also note that CRTs (doesn't matter if TV/arcade or VGA) don't care about how often the color changes per scanline, or in plain text, the horizontal pixel count.
CRTs only care about the amount of lines and the vertical refresh.

As for the green tint. Well IF you have added two resistors to the sync lines I am pretty clueless. If not, put one 1k Ohm resistor to VGA Pin 14, and another one to VGA Pin 13, then connect the other ends together to SCART Pin 20.

Other than that I can PM you some replacement modelines to try. That should be more "compatible" in terms of timings.

bent98 · « **Reply #1932 on:** July 21, 2010, 07:47:45 am »

Sailor,

An ideas on my question?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1933 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:11:28 am »

not yet. I'm starting to wonder what resolution your MAME is trying to switch to (try running -verbose)

PunchOut is dual 256x224 "vertical" (the screens, not the image!)

size get added...
width: 2 x 256 = 512
height: 2 x 224 = 448

as we have a "vertical" layout the width gets halved to 256 again.
So the "final" screen size is 256x448...

next matching resolutions would be... 512x448 (if available), 512x512 or 640x480.

bent98 · « **Reply #1934 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:35:45 am »

This is what it does when its set to Auto(No .ini file)

Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 448@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected = 512x 512@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x512
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
s8888888s
4s88888s6
44s888s66
444555666
444555666
444555666
44s222s66
4s22222s6
s2222222s
Average speed: 96.95% (18 seconds)
Sound: buffer overflows=2 underflows=0

bent98 · « **Reply #1935 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:36:52 am »

By using an .ini to force it to Rez

triplebuffer 1

# PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
resolution 512x448
resolution0 auto

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS

Parsing mame.ini
Parsing punchout.ini
Parsing punchout.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
512x 448@ 60Hz -> 3000.000000
512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected = 512x 448@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x448
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
s8888888s
4s88888s6
44s888s66
444555666
444555666
444555666
44s222s66
4s22222s6
s2222222s
Sound: buffer overflows=2 underflows=0

#

bent98 · « **Reply #1936 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:37:40 am »

So big question, why is Auto force it to 512x512 instead of 512x448?

bent98 · « **Reply #1937 on:** July 21, 2010, 10:02:14 am »

One more thing.

When I use punchout ini file and force it to 512x448 the monitor its says its displaying at 640x480.

SailorSat · « **Reply #1938 on:** July 21, 2010, 10:09:23 am »

Like said some posts earlier, CRTs can't tell what resolution it really is as the can only count the lines.

Most of them have real 262 lines (doesn't matter if 224 or 240 line "active"), and 525 in interlace (448 or 480 lines "active").

I'll take a look later as soon as I get home from work.

wilch · « **Reply #1939 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:09:50 pm »

Quote

Stop - I was talking about the modelines you posted for 320x240. They won't work on a TV.

The stock modelines of Soft-15kHz work fine.
Don't worry about 321x240. Pretty much every emulator will ignore the extra one pixel.

Also note that CRTs (doesn't matter if TV/arcade or VGA) don't care about how often the color changes per scanline, or in plain text, the horizontal pixel count.
CRTs only care about the amount of lines and the vertical refresh.

As for the green tint. Well IF you have added two resistors to the sync lines I am pretty clueless. If not, put one 1k Ohm resistor to VGA Pin 14, and another one to VGA Pin 13, then connect the other ends together to SCART Pin 20.

Other than that I can PM you some replacement modelines to try. That should be more "compatible" in terms of timings

i see. 321x doesn't show up in the quickres list on the TV, but does on the LCD (but doesn't work). so yeah if you can PM me some modelines for 321x that will show up on the CRT i'd appreciate it a lot.
i haven't soldered any resistors to the cable yet, just thought i'd post the affected resolutions in case it offered any more insight, i'll get the resistors this weekend

deano7 · « **Reply #1940 on:** July 22, 2010, 08:40:04 pm »

Hi,

I just got a j-pac and am using a nvdia 9400gt with soft 15khz. I hooked it up and get no picture on my jamma cab. It says when I open it up that I probably will need a dongle. Where can I get one of these and how much do they cost?

When you do this, do you need to put soft 15khz in the startup folder? What is the best way to use soft 15khz? When you click install 15khz, I get that the capability is probably there, but how do you change the monitor over to 15khz when you can't see what is on the screen once hooking it up to the cab? Probably a super noob question, I apologize in advance.

Thanks!
Dean

deano7 · « **Reply #1941 on:** July 23, 2010, 12:36:35 am »

Another question. How do you turn this off? Now that I installed it to try and work on my monitor, but figured out I need the dongle, how do I get it so I can use a monitor again? Thanks!

SailorSat · « **Reply #1942 on:** July 23, 2010, 01:43:06 am »

Hit F8 on start and select "VGA Mode"

deano7 · « **Reply #1943 on:** July 23, 2010, 01:55:47 am »

Thanks! Sailorsat, do you sell the dongles?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1944 on:** July 23, 2010, 03:02:36 am »

Yes I do.
Though first check it again

If your arcade screen turns black on boot, use the OTHER output of your card (you may need a simple DVI-to-VGA adapter).

wilch · « **Reply #1945 on:** July 23, 2010, 09:07:25 am »

anyone else completely missing 321x240 in their list of available resolutions while using soft-15khz?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1946 on:** July 23, 2010, 09:10:38 am »

Two possible reasons

a) custom drivers (omega for example)
b) too new drivers

(cat 6.6 and newer on radeon 9600)

deano7 · « **Reply #1947 on:** July 23, 2010, 08:32:58 pm »

Sorry to be such a pain, but F8 doesn't seem to do anything for me. If I start in safe mode, it works fine on my monitor, but in a normal boot up, I see the win xp logo and then I lose connection to the monitor. Where do I enter VGA mode? Is it somewhere in the BIOS? Sorry I am so confused! Thanks in advance.

bent98 · « **Reply #1948 on:** July 23, 2010, 09:13:47 pm »

Sailor

Have you gotten a chance to look at my resolution question?

thanks

deano7 · « **Reply #1949 on:** July 23, 2010, 09:43:14 pm »

Sailorsat,

I found the DVI to VGA adaptor and it works. I am getting a signal to the Ikari Warriors cab. SWEET.

Now I have a few final questions:
1. when booting up with my JPAC, I see the windows logo, but there are 2 of them about 6 inches apart (Like I've had too many dunkelweissen)
2. the orientation is obviously wrong and it needs to be turned 90 degrees.
3. Everything is garbled and distorted.

I played with the monitor knobs in the back and I got it to stop moving with the sync, but it is so distorted that I can't tell what is on the screen. I saw the different khz and I am wondering if maybe 15khz is not the right one? How do I know and what can I do to troubleshoot? Thanks in advance. How cool is it that I may be playing me some Ikari warriors and Frontine in the same cab!

Dean

SailorSat · « **Reply #1950 on:** July 24, 2010, 05:40:08 am »

@ deano: The Menu where you can select "safe mode" also should show a menu "vga mode".

The doubled XP Logo is correct. 31kHz gets converted to 15khz by "removing" every 2nd hsync impulse. You see everything twice.

If I remember correctly Ikari Warriors has a verticaly mounted monitor.

As for disortions... Photos ^^
Most likely the card is outputing 31khz without the dongle.

deano7 · « **Reply #1951 on:** July 24, 2010, 05:56:27 pm »

Thanks Sailorsat. I was able to do the VGA mode - I can't believe I didn't see it before.

I have attached a couple of pics so you can see what is going on with my monitor.

Yes, Ikari warriors is a vertical monitor. So what resolution should I set it to and how would I do that? If I go to windows display or quickres, the lowest res available is 640X480. I would guess that I need to somehow change the resolution when using my regular computer monitor and then switch it over to the cabinet monitor where I will be able to see it? Is it going to be like 290X 500 or something like that? Is there some sort of document that gives a step by step process to setup? I looked on your site and at the FAQ and I am sorry to bother you.

By the way, I can probably get a GEforce 7200GS, will that work without the dongle? I am guessing since quickres doesn't show any additional resolutions that I need the dongle for my 9400, right?

Thanks again for the help! My boys are chomping to play some Heavy Barrel and I want to play some Frontline - haven't played that since I was a kid! What part of Germany you in Sailorsat? I have a really good friend in Wertach in the southeast section of the country. It is beautiful there - can't wait to get back to visit!

Dean

SailorSat · « **Reply #1952 on:** July 25, 2010, 06:01:01 am »

@bent98:
Hm strange.
Based on my tests...

<cut>
Looks like a vertical layout... 0.663350
xscale = 1
yscale = 1
visible_width = 256
visible_height = 448
<cut>

Don't know exactly why it choses 512x512 instead of 512x448.
Anyway, if 512x512 doesn't work on your monitor remove it from soft15khz and you should be fine.

bent98 · « **Reply #1953 on:** July 25, 2010, 11:06:57 am »

Salior

How do I remove 512x512 resolution? I assume I need to add something to my soft15kkz.txt? Also I am running this version driver:
Would the driver have anything to do with it?

Driver Packaging Version   8.53-080820a-068898C-ATI
Catalyst® Version   08.9
Primary Adapter
Graphics Card Manufacturer   Powered by ATI
Graphics Chipset   Radeon X1950 Series
Device ID   7244

bent98 · « **Reply #1954 on:** July 25, 2010, 05:50:44 pm »

Ok figure out how to remove. I removed 512x512 from custom31khz.txt

Now monitor runs it at 320x250 15.9khZ, 58.3hz

Why does mame show it running at 512x512 if that resolution isnt available on my card?

This resolution flickers and has alot of scan lines. Can you recommend to try anything else? IS there a way to tell soft15 to run 640x480 instead of 512x512 through the custom configs files. Kind of like a resolution substitution.

Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Direct3D: Using Direct3D 9
Direct3D: Configuring adapter #0 = Radeon X1950 Series
Direct3D: Selecting video mode...
   240x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   352x 288@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   400x 384@ 61Hz -> 500.000000
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   448x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   496x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 384@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 1003.134796
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 1000.000000
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.409639
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 1002.020202
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 1001.438849
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 1000.919963
  1280x 720@ 60Hz -> 1000.772201
  1920x1080@ 60Hz -> 1000.435730
Direct3D: Mode selected = 512x 512@ 60Hz
Direct3D: Using dynamic textures
Direct3D: YUV format = UYVY
Direct3D: Device created at 512x512
Direct3D: Max texture size = 4096x4096
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Gun #1: Microsoft USB IntelliMouse Optical
Input: Adding Mouse #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #2: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Mouse #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Gun #3: HID-compliant mouse
Input: Adding Kbd #1: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #2: HID Keyboard Device
Input: Adding Kbd #3: HID Keyboard Device
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7
Input: Changing default joystick map = s8.4s8.44s8.4445
  s8888888s
  4s88888s6
  44s888s66
  444555666
  444555666
  444555666
  44s222s66
  4s22222s6
  s2222222s
Sound: buffer overflows=1 underflows=0

SailorSat · « **Reply #1955 on:** July 26, 2010, 01:37:55 am »

I don't think you have removed it if it still shows up in MAME.
However it is output in 15kHz now instead of 31kHz.

Don't trust what your monitor says about the pixel resolution. The frequencies are fine.

Sadly there is no generic way to tell MAME what resolution to use for multiscreen games as there is no generic ini file for that. You could try it on the "system" level.

vsnes.ini should cover all nintendo VS. games.
ninjaw.ini should cover ninja warriors and darius2.
darius.ini should cover darius.
playch10.ini should cover als nintendo playchoice games.
megatech.ini should cover all sega megatech games.

I don't have a list of all multiscreen games at hand, but IIRC there are not many.
there doesn't seem to be any bios set for multi32 games. (outrunners etc.)

bent98 · « **Reply #1956 on:** July 26, 2010, 08:39:52 am »

Awsome. That did the trick!

Will you be adding this hack in all the new cabmames? Will it require something to be turned on in the mame.ini file or will it just be there like the frogger and galaxian hack?

SailorSat · « **Reply #1957 on:** July 26, 2010, 08:48:49 am »

It will be there by default. As its only a fix to my "old" hacks

bent98 · « **Reply #1958 on:** July 26, 2010, 09:42:04 am »

thanks again!

wilch · « **Reply #1959 on:** July 26, 2010, 09:55:38 am »

Quote

Two possible reasons
a) custom drivers (omega for example)
b) too new drivers (cat 6.6 and newer on radeon 9600)

im using the standard x86 windows XP radeon 6.5 drivers.
i'll wipe, then reinstall the drivers when i get home & see what happens


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