Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[SailorSat]

Well I got my XHD3000 a few weeks ago and my current GF9600GT is pretty much at its lmits...
But don't have the money for a big card atm.
Guess prices get better once the new GeForce cards hit the markets...

As for some on-topic news

The newer NVidia drivers for XP have the safe mode extended to all cards... So to use the new drivers you need a valid EDID source (like the S15K dongle...)

As for now, I'm trying to register as NVidia Developer, but they seem to only accept big bussiness partners ~-~

[M3d10n]

SailorSat, did you try using Windows 7 (retail, not the RC) with a Nvidia card? I'm on an ATI, but Windows 7 lists the arcade monitor as an "unknown display device" and offers options to brute force the connection. I don't know if this is particular to ATI drivers or if it's a native Windows 7 feature.

[SailorSat]

Actually I don't have a retail version of Seven yet

I'm yet tryting to get the data format right on the nvidia drivers

---

Onto something different...
I've completed my modeline calculator and redid the default resolutions.
However I need some feedback as I only have a small number of monitors to test them on.
They work fine on a Commodore 1438s (15-25-31), my Hantarex Polo (15), a Hantarex Polo/2 (25) and on my SCART TV (15).

If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).


custom15khz.txt

Code: [Select]

# -= 15KHz Progressive =-
modeline '240x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,16592 240 264 288 328 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 5,417916 256 280 304 344 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '288x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,173904 288 320 352 392 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '296x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,299902 296 328 360 400 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '304x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,551898 304 336 368 416 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 6,803894 320 352 384 432 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '336x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,181888 336 368 400 456 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '368x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 7,811878 368 408 440 496 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '392x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 8,315871 392 432 472 528 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '448x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 9,575851 448 496 544 608 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 10,961829 512 568 616 696 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x240-15,750KHz-59,885Hz' 13,607788 640 704 768 864 240 243 246 263 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 5,417829 256 280 304 344 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '320x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 6,803786 320 352 384 432 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x256-15,750KHz-55,456Hz' 7,559762 352 392 424 480 256 260 264 284 -hsync -vsync
modeline '400x256-15,750KHz-54,686Hz' 8,567765 400 440 480 544 256 261 266 288 -hsync -vsync
modeline '256x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 5,417874 256 280 304 344 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 7,559824 352 392 424 480 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '632x264-15,750KHz-54,497Hz' 13,481686 632 696 760 856 264 268 272 289 -hsync -vsync
modeline '352x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 7,56023 352 392 424 480 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '384x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 8,19025 384 424 464 520 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 10,962334 512 568 616 696 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x288-15,750KHz-50,808Hz' 13,608415 640 704 768 864 288 291 294 310 -hsync -vsync

# -= 15KHz Interlace =-
modeline '512x448-15,750KHz-60iHz' 10,962 512 568 616 696 448 459 470 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '640x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 13,608 640 704 768 864 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '720x480-15,750KHz-60iHz' 15,372 720 792 864 976 480 486 492 525 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '512x512-15,750KHz-54,497iHz' 10,961745 512 568 616 696 512 521 530 578 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '800x600-15,750KHz-50iHz' 17,136 800 880 960 1088 600 604 608 630 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '1024x600-15,750KHz-50iHz' 21,924 1024 1128 1232 1392 600 604 608 630 -hsync -vsync interlace

# -= remove fake 1024x768 =-
remove 1024x768

custom25khz.txt

Code: [Select]

# -= 25KHz Progressive =-
modeline '496x384-24,960KHz-60Hz' 15,57504 496 512 576 624 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x384-24,960KHz-60Hz' 15,9744 512 528 592 640 384 386 391 416 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x400-24,960KHz-57,248Hz' 15,974482 512 528 592 640 400 403 409 436 -hsync -vsync

# -= 25KHz Interlace =-
modeline '1024x768-24,960KHz-60iHz' 31,9488 1024 1048 1176 1280 768 773 783 832 -hsync -vsync interlace
modeline '1280x720-24,960KHz-60iHz' 39,936 1280 1312 1472 1600 720 729 746 832 -hsync -vsync interlace

custom31khz.txt

Code: [Select]

# -= 31KHz Progressive =-
modeline '512x448-31,500KHz-60Hz' 19,908 512 520 600 632 448 485 492 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '640x480-31,500KHz-60Hz' 24,948 640 648 744 792 480 501 505 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '720x480-31,500KHz-60Hz' 27,972 720 728 840 888 480 501 505 525 -hsync -vsync
modeline '512x512-31,499KHz-54,497Hz' 19,907536 512 520 600 632 512 543 549 578 -hsync -vsync
modeline '800x600-31,500KHz-50Hz' 31,248 800 816 944 992 600 614 617 630 -hsync -vsync
modeline '1024x600-31,500KHz-50Hz' 39,816 1024 1040 1200 1264 600 614 617 630 -hsync -vsync

[Sosetsuken]

If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).

SailorSat, i'll fire up my cab now and test them.  Whats the best way?  Can I just click Uninstall and then add the Custom15khz.txt then click reinstall then reboot? or do i need to reboot between Uninstall and Reinstall?

[M3d10n]

They do look all the same size for me. Haven't tried all resolutions, though. However, on my TV they have quite some vertical overscan and a slight horizontal underscan, but I can get around it by tweaking the monitor geometry in the Catalyst control panel (which is only possible when using dual monitors - using the CCC in sub 800x600 resolutions is by all means impossible).

[SailorSat]

Actually this is starting to piss me off...

Seven and NVidia is just a no-go...

So I installed the newest drivers... Fine.
I removed every mode besides 1600x1200 60Hz (testing with an 21" VGA)... Fine.

Boot WITHOUT DDC/EDID... Windows comes up in 1600x1200 (with not other resolution available)... Exactly what should be happening!
Boot WITH the EDID Dongle... Windows comes up in 800x600 50Hz (progressive...) with 640x480 60Hz as alternative... Well... They should be F*CKING interlaced...





I'm willing to go as far as to say NVidias Vista/Seven drivers simple can't go below 31kHz by design.
That really sucks...

[M3d10n]

Did you check the "List all modes" window? It won't list sub-480 resolutions, but it should list the interlaced resolutions (they show up as 30Hz).

[SailorSat]

Sure I did...

--

Now onto something COMPLETELY different

http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg

[I/O]

Now onto something COMPLETELY different

http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-board.jpg
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-desktop.png
http://images.arianchen.de/multihead-nocomment.jpg

What kind of power supply did you need for that?

[SailorSat]

Nothing special, a 420W one

[dapsaille]

Hi.


 I've got a problem not directly related to soft15khz but this problem won"t let me use it ...

 I explain ..

 I use an Aopen minipc with a 915gml video card ... it seems that there is a LVD connector who is not used ..

 in the facts, if i don"t plug a valid edid source, i've got no video output.. and ,hopefully, my hantarex don'"t provide edid signal ^^


 I've installed IEGD from intel but i don't know where to start ... do i need to create a standard driver minus the audodetection of the monitor or do i need to create a specific 15khz driver ?


 Sorry if this question seems out topic but i must admit that theese kind of questions cannot be asked on a "Gamerz Video Cardz PrOblemz" topic ^^

[SailorSat]

Woa... Are you sure its a LVD connector? More likely to be a DVI one.

As for the problem... Well you could use an EDID dongle so it gets detected.
As for IEGD... I don't know if it is possible to deactivate or force any of the detections.

[MaximRecoil]

Question for SailorSat:

I have a Radeon 9600 with a component adapter (DVI-I to YPrPb Adapter [Purple, ATI part number 151-V01093]) hooked to a standard resolution TV that only supports 15 KHz resolutions (so 480i is supported over component, but not 480p). I am running 640x432i currently.

I don't use this for emulators; I use it to watch standard resolution video files (~700 MB AVI files with a maximum resolution of 640x480). It looks fine while playing videos, but Windows of course flickers severely.

I was wondering how things would look at say 640x240p (60 Hz). Would Soft-15KHz make it possible for me to use that resolution over component?

[M3d10n]

Question for SailorSat:

I have a Radeon 9600 with a component (YPbPr) adapter hooked to a standard resolution TV that only supports 15 KHz resolutions (so 480i is supported over component, but not 480p). I am running 640x432i currently.

I don't use this for emulators; I use it to watch standard resolution video files (~700 MB AVI files with a maximum resolution of 640x480). It looks fine while playing videos, but Windows of course flickers severely.

I was wondering how things would look at say 640x240p (60 Hz). Would Soft-15KHz make it possible for me to use that resolution over component?

Nope. The video card's own TV-out port is controlled completely by the GPU driver. It will always take whatever resolution you feed into it and resize it to display in 480i or 480p (depending on your settings).

I don't know if it works for the 9600, but in my HD 4850 I found a trick to enable the "interlaced anti-flicker" over component:

1) Go into the catalyst control panel;
2) Disable the component-out and enable composite-out;
3) Go into the composite display options and turn the flicker removal to maximum;
4) Now disable composite and re-enable component. The flicker removal will continue turned on.

This will give you as much of a flicker free image as you can get (similar to hooking up a DVD player).

[SailorSat]

Don't know for sure.
AS far as I know, the 9000 series DVI-Component Dongle does support Soft-15kHz.
But I have never tested that, as I don't own such a dongle

[MaximRecoil]

I don't know if it works for the 9600, but in my HD 4850 I found a trick to enable the "interlaced anti-flicker" over component:

1) Go into the catalyst control panel;
2) Disable the component-out and enable composite-out;
3) Go into the composite display options and turn the flicker removal to maximum;
4) Now disable composite and re-enable component. The flicker removal will continue turned on.

This will give you as much of a flicker free image as you can get (similar to hooking up a DVD player).

Thanks, I'll have to try that.

I have another idea too; one that — if it would work — would turn any CRT TV with component inputs into a pseudo arcade monitor capable of running true native arcade resolutions, but it would require spending $120:

Using an ArcadeVGA video card, or Soft-15KHz with a normal video card, and get an Audio Authority Model 9A60 VGA to Component Video Transcoder. This device passes the video signal timings through unaltered; the only thing it does is a conversion from RGB to YPbPr.

I've never tested that idea out of course (maybe someone else has), but if it would work, I would think that it would be as good as you can get for running emulators on a component-input TV; because of being able to use native resolutions such as 256 x 240 @ 60Hz.

[SailorSat]

Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html

[M3d10n]

Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html

I am using a RGB->S-video one myself (it was $20). I'd love component, but not for that price.

[MaximRecoil]

Hm.. The JROK converter is only 81$

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html

That one encodes to NTSC video though, which is no different than what a video card with component TV-out does by default. The idea behind the Audio Authority device is that it changes nothing aside from the color space; so if you feed it e.g., 256 x 240 @ 60 Hz RGB, that's exactly what you'll get out, except it will be YPbPr.

The 9A60 is not a format converter nor is it a scaler. It passes the horizontal and vertical synchronization timings and pixel content to the outputs without modification. For example, a 1080i RGBHV source with a 9A60 will require your HDTV monitor to accept a 1080i YPbPr component video input. Generally, 1080i, 720p and 480p sources, such as set top boxes, may be displayed on monitors designed for the desired format, using the 9A60. However, some combinations of sources and televisions may produce undesired display artifacts or fail to work at all.

[M3d10n]

That one encodes to NTSC video though, which is no different than what a video card with component TV-out does by default. The idea behind the Audio Authority device is that it changes nothing aside from the color space; so if you feed it e.g., 256 x 240 @ 60 Hz RGB, that's exactly what you'll get out, except it will be YPbPr.

Just by looking at it I don't think so. It doesn't look like it has enough circuitry to convert resolution. In fact, It looks *very* similar to the RGB->S-Video one I have (except the YPbPr out), and mine is unable of changing resolutions (it merely converts the color signal).

[MaximRecoil]

Just by looking at it I don't think so. It doesn't look like it has enough circuitry to convert resolution. In fact, It looks *very* similar to the RGB->S-Video one I have (except the YPbPr out), and mine is unable of changing resolutions (it merely converts the color signal).

I'm just going by what it claims to do, which is:

"This device is designed to take the Red, Green, Blue and synchronization signals from an video arcade game board and convert them into a NTSC video signal."

Maybe they are playing fast and loose with the term "NTSC".

If all it does is a color space conversion, then it should work fine for what I'm talking about. However, overall it would not be as versatile as the Audio Authority device, because that one can work with any type of RGBHV signal (not limited to 15 KHz signals); so you could also use it to send an HD signal to an HDTV.

[dapsaille]

Woa... Are you sure its a LVD connector? More likely to be a DVI one.

As for the problem... Well you could use an EDID dongle so it gets detected.
As for IEGD... I don't know if it is possible to deactivate or force any of the detections.

 Thanks for your reply ...

 this hardware is a bit specific .. if no display is attached the output is not activated , like a laptop ..

 Anyway, i've successfully build a intel driver without audodetection ... need to deploy it and test it with soft15k

 Do you think that the core i3 intel graphic chip may be compatible with  your soft ? or is there is any chance that it will be in a near future ?

 I ask that because miniitx core i3 is really cute and inexpensive (in term of size of course) and it could be a perfect 15k base ..

 And many many thanks for this good piece of software and your support  

EDIT = no way .. my j-pac doesn't sync at 15k .... i've got the 5 resolutions  settings in quickres (240x240 256x240 256x256 256x264 288x240) but no sync ..

 do you have any idea ? may i use a tool to send a debug report or do i need to throw this minipc in my garden  ?

 it is so cute ... snirfff
 

[SailorSat]

We'll see
Do you have a link to the specific drivers? Then I look into it.

[dapsaille]

We'll see
Do you have a link to the specific drivers? Then I look into it.

 Which driver would you like to have ? the modified without autodetection or the i3 graphic driver ?

(i've edited my previous post)


 As you can see on the picture there is only a dvi output and a s-video output ...

 but the problem is that on the motherboard there is a lvd connector .. so the official driver switch to "notebook" drivers .. so no go for official, need to use a specific driver without autodetection or my jpac does'nt get any signal

EDIT = here is the modified Intel driver without autodetection : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1F1O99WF

With this driver my jpac got a signal under windows but no 15khz :/

[cobrakai22]

I just got in a Jpac for my new astro city 15khz-24khz cabinet. Im trying to hook it up to my Mac via bootcamp windows XP (Nvidia 9400M).

I installed 15khz when the arcade monitor was plugged into the JPAC, restarted and tried to change resoloutions to a lower resoloution, no luck.

I downloaded quickres and powerstrip, with quickres i can only change resoloutions on my computer screen not the arcade monitor.

On powerstrip i tinkered with custom resolutions and i got the 31khz split screen mode, but when i open mame it dosen't sync to 15khz.

Is this just because my card isn't able to do 15khz or is there suppose to be lower resolutions than 640x480 somewhere in the display preferences?

My main question is how in the perfect situation do you know that it switches 15khz,  or where do you go to change it to 15khz?

Also if you do hook up a regular pc how do you configure things normally, do you have to keep switching between monitors so you can see what you are doing?

Thanks

[SailorSat]

Usually I use VNC to check whats happening...

So to get it right... you've installed XP on your mac, and now you have two monitors connected?
I don't know if that even can work.

To use quickres on the seconds screen, try http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/quickres2.zip

[cobrakai22]

Its a macbook pro so I have the minidisplay port to VGA adapter, then the VGA goes to the Jpac.

I have had 31khz running on the windows mode so I can see the desktop but its split in half on the arcade monitor.

The green sync light comes on the Jpac, but if I take the 31khz clip on the jpac I dont get a green sync light for 15khz

Soft15khz installed so it should be available right?


On a separate note:

How do you do things if you have a computer tower plugged to the arcade monitor and you only get the 2 split screens, or how do you even go and change the resolution if the monitor is blank because your not in the right resolution?

Im just tryna figure if I have to get a pc for this how do you access launching mame etc if you cant see whats going on a separate monitor?

[Haggar]

Onto something different...
I've completed my modeline calculator and redid the default resolutions.
However I need some feedback as I only have a small number of monitors to test them on.
They work fine on a Commodore 1438s (15-25-31), my Hantarex Polo (15), a Hantarex Polo/2 (25) and on my SCART TV (15).

If anyone is willing to test them... I'm especially insterested if they have the same "size" on every resolution (multisyncs!).

Hi Sailor, why did you do these new modelines?

[SailorSat]

Well I did them because I can
No seriously. Some useres mentioned that the image on multisyncs needs to be adjusted after every resolution change. I've tried to compensate with exakt the same timings.

[Haggar]

If I have a standard 15KHz monitor can I get any benefit from these modelines?

[commander]

Hey cobrakai22, i have a Qosmio x305 with a 9700M GTS (HDMI and VGA port) dual boot Windows 7 and Windows XP.
Under Windows 7 Soft15khz didnt work but under Windows XP it worked fine with the exception of interlaced resolutions i ran it in clone mode(well thats the only way i could get it to run) displaying to the notebook LCD and to the scart tv through the vga port. I hope that helps.

By the way SailorSat in 640 x 480 i get a split unsynced image is it possible to add a modeline to get it to work or is it a limitation in the video card.

[SailorSat]

Maybe you have a safe mode problem. However if all other resolutions work... Don't really know.
Never tried a current notebook

[ahofle]

Sailor, here's a useful 31khz modeline for people with multisyncs/31khz monitors:

modeline "680x512@60p" 27.27 680 696 768 856 512 513 516 531 -hsync +vsync

This allows pixel-perfect display of Tron/APB/Toobin/Satan's Hallow.  I've tested this on a WG9400.

Also, what is the use of the 'square' resolutions (256x256, 512x512)? I've never seen a single game that they look correct on?

[tony.silveira]

hi all,

i'm new to soft 15, please be gentle.  i installed from some advice on here for the following issue i was having.

i have this betson imperial multi synch monitor:

http://www.betson.com/products/IMP-44-4070-RT

i also have my image mirrored to my projector.  the arcade monitor will only do 800x600 where as i prefer running on my projector, 1024x768.  this was making me switch res depending on what screen i was using.  so, soft 15 to the rescue.

i installed it and now 1024x768 shows on my arcade machine.  the issue is that i have to use the mouse to scroll up/down to see the edges of the screen.  this wouldn't be a big deal except it's also doing it in emu's.

i's like to be able to set up all my emu's to run 1024x768 but is there a way to "shrink" the vertical so that the whole screen is visible without scrolling up/down?

many thanks

[SailorSat]

Wow that site doesn't say anything on the details

What is the maximum frequency your monitor will do? like 35kHz?
800x600 doesn't say much (though I can assume it will do 35khz)


As for your question. Well not by default.

You could try with the following mode...
(open usermodes.txt, then past the modeline in, save, start soft-15khz, hit install USER, reboot)
modeline '1024x768-35,0kHz-84,034Hz' 44,24 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 784 800 833 -hsync -vsync interlace

Then you should have 1024x768 interlaced at 85Hz

[tony.silveira]

EDIT: never mind, i figured it out, thank you for your help!

now i just need to figure out why some emu's are still behaving the way i mentioned, vertical is to big.



hey sailor,

i'll try the mode line you suggested, but, where is the "usermodes.txt" file located?  fyi, i currently have the soft 15 app in it's own folder on my desktop and there is no txt file in there.

fyi2, from my monitors user manual:

Bandwidth Maximum 50MHz
Scanning Frequency
(Auto Scanning)
Horizontal
Vertical
15-40KHz
50-120Hz


thank you for the help!

Wow that site doesn't say anything on the details

What is the maximum frequency your monitor will do? like 35kHz?
800x600 doesn't say much (though I can assume it will do 35khz)


As for your question. Well not by default.

You could try with the following mode...
(open usermodes.txt, then past the modeline in, save, start soft-15khz, hit install USER, reboot)
modeline '1024x768-35,0kHz-84,034Hz' 44,24 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 784 800 833 -hsync -vsync interlace

Then you should have 1024x768 interlaced at 85Hz

[SailorSat]

Okay. Now we can do our homework

First of all, scrap the usermodes.txt
Now add a "custom31khz.txt"

Add...

Code: [Select]

remove 1024,768
modeline '1024x768-40,0kHz-50,0Hz' 50,56 1024 1048 1208 1264 768 776 784 800 -hsync -vsync

Then start soft15kHz, hit uninstall, hit install 15, install 25 and install 31khz.

After that you should have a progressive 1024x768 at 50Hz (seen in windows as 60hz).
And your Emus should run fine in fullscreen, though vsync will limit you to 50hz.

If you need true 60Hz you will have to go the interlace way and 25kHz, though I don't know if you projector can handle that.

[Chunce DeLeone]

Got an ATI Radeon X550 catalyst 6.5 trying to run mamed Starwars on a WG K7000 Arcade Monitor with Soft 15k installed the picture is blurry.  Take a different PC running a Radeon 9200 card to the K7000 running starwars and its perfect.  Do you think the X550 is the problem and I should replace the vid card, or is this where mode lines help?  If so what is the most compatible card on the market in a reasonable price range?     Also i checked the desktop rez on the PC with the Radeon 9200 card and it was 640x480x16 and running perfect clear on the wg k7000, i then hooked up the pc running  the x550 and quickres'd 640x480x16 and it was that same blurry.  This is what makes me think the card can't do that rez.  Is that the reason or is there something i can do with the software to fix that.  And the reason i don't just use the other pc is because both pc's are being used on two separate cabs and this one i want to have the higher horsepower, which has the x550 and could use better vid card anyway.  What's a good card to throw in there and will that fix all the problems?  
would this work? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125251
or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102877

[SailorSat]

I never had any issues like that.
If a card can't do the mode, you wouldn't see any picture at all.

As for a new card, I've used HD4350 in the past and they work great.
The HD5450 should work too, but I've not tested them yet.

[Chunce DeLeone]

Thanks SailorSat,


If i go with the 4350 what catalyst drivers work the best?  

Also I have been reading up on modelines.  I think what determines what modelines you put in is the monitor, am i right and if so what are good modelines for the WG K7000?  Is there a place where I can download prewritten modelines for specific monitors?