Pre-Purchase Validation - CP design and misc questions

[Racer_X]

All:

After a few months of lurking, research, and budgetary meetings, I have finally gotten approval and funding (most important) for my arcade cabinet.  Prior to pulling the trigger, however, I wanted to verify a few things and get the opinions of those who have gone before me.

The cabinet is going to be about 29 inches wide or so, and the CP is about 33.5" inches wide.  I don't think that the overhang is going to be that noticeable at 2.5" per side.  I'm going to use 4 of the ultrastick 360s for their flexibility.  SmashTV and Karate Champ are old friends, so I need the 2 player ability there.  To support my Cabal habit, I need the trackball.  Since I'm of the Mortal Kombat generation, I'll have to support the 6 buttons.

Here's where things get interesting - Frontline and Ikari warriors I plan to address by mounting two spinners and using a flightstick-style grip with trigger buttons for the center joystick.  Dual spinners will also allow 2-player racing games, and the extra fire buttons are for Tempest.  If Ultimarc made a ultimate 360 joystick with a Tron-style grip, that'd be perfect!

In addition to the CP jpg, I have some fairly specific concerns with the design that I'd appreciate some validation on:
1.  I used the visio stencils from the download page here - are they fairly accurate?
2.  Distance between the top joystick and the trackball mounting plate is about 3" - is that going to be enough for energetic Golden Tee players to keep their digits?
3.  There is 2.5" between the outer edge of the controls and the edge of the panel - can that be shaved a bit and still be able to support a good looking border - Galaga style for example?
4.  The templates are for Happs' joysticks - does that hold true for the Ultimarcs?  Do visio templates exist for the Ultimarcs?
5.  Is the footprint for the TT2 spinner the same as the Happs spinner?
6.  As I'm going to be using the Novagems buttons, this is probably for RandyT - I would imagine that I HAVE to buy the microswitches to get the buttons to, well, WORK - aye?

I'm certain there are quite a few questions I haven't asked that I should - any and all help appreciated!

[BobA]

You are going to break fingers on the 4 way when you use the trackball in golden tee.

The viso stencils are acturate for the components specified

The ultimarc joys are a different mount then the happs

The TT2 spinner is the smallest footrpint spinner and would be much smaller then the Happs

[urbecrisch]

I purposely kept the space above my trackball clear of any other devices/buttons so  I wouldn't smash any fingers since Golden Tee will be played often on my CAB.  I haven't finished my CP yet but it's your call regarding the trackball.  Also, I went with an Ultmarc Mag-Stick plus so I could easily switch between 8 way and 4 way for the classic arcade games.  Again my CP isn't quite done yet but here's a pic (grainy) of the sample MDF CP.  Notice the nice space above the trackball!  I still have to add my TT2 spinner and my Topfire joystick which will be above the player 2 buttons.

[JustMichael]

Racer_X, did you measure your doorways to make sure the cab can fit through?  One thing people often overlook is that the machine will need to be moved someday.

[Racer_X]

Fortunately, I should be moving it out of the room in about 10 years.  At that point, I figure I can take it apart.  It helps to remain in one place 

With the spinners having a smaller footprint, I might move that top joystick over from directly above the track ball.  If I have to eliminate it, so be it, but I'd like to be able to play some of the games like Ikari.  As I'm a lefty, the setup I would install would be a bit different from the right-handed world, hence the center position of the joystick and spinners.

[SGT]

Since you are using the U360s, do you really need the 4 way?  Couldn't you just send a 4 way map to the U360 for all of your 4 way games?

-SGT

[Kaytrim]

I think that you will have a problem with the Quit and Pause buttons being so close to the Credit and Start buttons.  Since you are getting the U360 joysticks why a dedicated 4-way?  You could loose the 4-way and move your admin buttons there.  This will serve two purposes, save fingers from jamming on the 4-way stick and move your admin buttons away from the credit and start buttons.  I would also widen the entire panel to give you a little more room around the trackball.  You don't want to take the chance of jamming fingers on the joysticks next to the trackball.

The TT2 spinner and Nova Gems take the same space as the Happ buttons you have templates for.  I don't know about the U360 footprint though maybe Andy from Ultimarc can help you out there.  One final thing, you can make the CP removable so you can move the cab through the doors when you need.

Just my $.02 
Kaytrim

[Racer_X]

It's not actually a 4 way, but a tron-style trigger joystick - the goal is to use the trigger stick with the spinners for games like Ikari warriors and, well, tron.  It may not make sense to keep it above the track ball due to finger smashes.  If that is the case and I eliminate it I can move some of the admin buttons over. 

Since the TT2s have the same footprint as buttons, I think I can move the spinner/joystick/spinner combo over so that it isn't centered over the trackball.  Golden Tee players will hit the spinner, but it's a much smaller target.  That also preserves lefty-rightie flexibility, but it'll be a little awkward for head to head driving games....

[QuixoteQuest]

I validate your angst in trying to get a CP design that will play all your favorites. Good luck!

Here's my thoughts:

1. Others are right: if you like trackball "party games" Golden Tee, ShuffleShot, etc., you (and especially your guests) WILL jam their fingers with that setup.

2. A thought that comes to mind: Would you want to place a flight stick in place of your 1-p second stick? I know it wouldn't technically fit the spirit perfectly of two identical sticks for double-joy games, but technically you could play Karate Champ doing this, yes? You then pick up the ability to make Tron and DoTron work well. And you have a flight stick in a more comfortable location for all the games that benefit from having this control.

3. The spinner locations I think are fine if comfortable enough reach. But from my perspective: spinners don't make great driving games. First, there are several 270-degree driving games for which they don't work (Spy Hunter). And for those 360-degree driving games they do work for, you can technically get an UltraStik to work okay as an analog pedal. And you can technically get the buttons to function as your shifter. IOW, you can play several 360-driving games with this setup--even OutRun, which was a 270-degree game--enough to have a nice trip down memory lane but you can't play really well. Nothing satisfies like a dedicated driving set-up, IMO. If it were me I wouldn't pay to put in two spinners for such. But having one spinner for spinner games is definitely a must.

4. I think others have a point that your escape button could be accidentally depressed. (Plus, I'd lose an escape button on the right; it's okay not to be perfectly symmetrical. Put on only what you need.) If you make your escape button a shifted-function then you won't accidentally quit when you mean to pause. (It will happen if your experience is like mine. My escape button is right next to my left pause button.)

5. I think you'll like the UltraStiks. It's what I have. Though mine haven't been bug-free I think you'll still have a good experience with them. Let us know what you think.

6. I presume you're wiring your trackball mouse button leads up to 2 or 3 of the 1-p buttons?

 
[edit] Another thing: Just make your CP detachable with bolts. It's what I did. Then it's no big deal to move thru doorways when the time comes.

[Racer_X]

Quix:

1.  Aw poop!  Personally, I'm not a fan of Golden Tee at all - the only reason I want that track ball is for Cabal and maybe Centipede.  BUT, I have to be nice to other folks that may be stopping by, darnit!

2.  The left hand joystick being a tron-style stick is a thought, but then I lose 4-8 way compatibility there.  KC is 4 way, but smash, I'm thinking, is 8, so I'm SOL.  Someone tell Andy to make an Ultrastick trigger stick!

3/4.  I might play with that config a bit and screw over the right handers.  Since I'm a lefty and the tt2 has a button footprint, I can do credit/1p/esc on the left, trigger stick, fire button, spinner, pause button in the center.  The spinner is a temporary fix until version 2 - usb connections in the CP in front for a steering wheel (cheap pc style) and the sides for the LCD topguns. Version 1.5 might be the mini steering wheel for the tt2.  Not perfect but close enough.  It's only 2 bucks for the button on the other side, so it's easy to go with symmetry.  It'd bug me otherwise.  I'll muck with the design tomorrow and repost )


5. Since you are a user - do you like the ball tops or the bats?  Andy's out of the bats, but he still has the ball tops left.

6. I'm actually not planning on using mouse buttons.  I'm going to put in a keyboard drawer with a real mouse.  This is a standalone arcade system, complete mala front end, mame back end - no XP shell no network no nothing.  Once this is running it's going to be imaged and frozen in time - except for my high scores, of course. 

Another horrid thought:
USB 1 - Ultrastick1 P1
USB 2 - Ultrastick2 P1
USB 3- Ultrastick1 P2
USB 4 - Ultrastick2 P2
USB 5 - Trackball
USB 6 - LED wiz
USB 7 - TT2 Board
---------Rev 2.0
USB 8 - LED TopGun1
USB 9 - LED TopGun2
USB 10 - Front connection for Yoke/Spy Hunter wheel

Sheesh!  If I don't overload mame with all the mices, I'm going to need a couple of powered usb 4 port hubs in there!

[Lakersfan]

Hi Racer_x,
I really like this mock-up... I was wondering if you completed it and how you like it so far. Did you move things around as some in this thread suggested? Anything you would have done different?