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Author Topic: **REVIEW**No longer relevant  (Read 27244 times)

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Donkey_Kong

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**REVIEW**No longer relevant
« on: January 24, 2007, 12:11:06 am »
...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 10:06:04 am by Donkey_Kong »
Carved Signs, Custom Gameroom Signs, and Arcade Game Decor and now CNC MACHINES by Melissa Jones

fjl

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 12:55:54 am »
Well you talked more about yourself and your wife than the TT2.  :P

Lots of technical stuff I'd like to know. I have yet to read the other threads on this spinner so I know nothing. Looks like it fits in the same hole size as a regular cab button. Is the interchangeable wheel and dial easy to change? If so, would I have to worry that someone can swipe the wheel? Can it be screwed in so its not easily removed? How does it feel ingame? Do you somehow feel a difference with certain games? Does it spin smoothly? Will it be able to take a good beating and still come out holding strong? How's the response? And how does it differ from some of the other spinners out there? Was it shipped quickly? Did you have any problems setting it up? Connecting it?

Come on dude, give us ANSWERS and a more THOROUGH review!  :blah:

Donkey_Kong

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2007, 01:16:08 am »
See Above...Thanks!!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 01:28:14 am by Donkey_Kong »
Carved Signs, Custom Gameroom Signs, and Arcade Game Decor and now CNC MACHINES by Melissa Jones

leapinlew

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2007, 01:18:18 am »
would I have to worry that someone can swipe the wheel?

These kinds of people aren't allowed in my house in the first place.

leapinlew

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2007, 01:22:00 am »
I'm hoping to help start an arcadian female revolution here with this. Hopefully you will understand that.

Good luck with that! If anything can do it - it's the spinner or trackball. The only games the girls wanted to play at my house is Puzz Loop. 1 button and a spinner.

I thought it was a good review. The kind of review I like to read, without all the technical chat. All the technical chat was done in Andys product announcement.

fjl

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2007, 01:30:05 am »
Q:  Is the interchangeable wheel and dial easy to change?
A:Takes seconds. The wheel for example is secured by it's own weight and is removed by simply lifting up. The Token knob can just be laid in place like the wheel or you have the option to tighten it down to adjust resistance. It is also very quick and easy.

No actually I was wondering if the knob itself can be tightened a with a screw to prevent it from being removed. And not that I invite people who will want to steal it but when kids play with it, you just know they'll end up taking it off and rolling it somewhere, allowing it to get lost or something.

leapinlew

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2007, 01:33:31 am »
Q:  Is the interchangeable wheel and dial easy to change?
A:Takes seconds. The wheel for example is secured by it's own weight and is removed by simply lifting up. The Token knob can just be laid in place like the wheel or you have the option to tighten it down to adjust resistance. It is also very quick and easy.

No actually I was wondering if the knob itself can be tightened a with a screw to prevent it from being removed. And not that I invite people who will want to steal it but when kids play with it, you just know they'll end up taking it off and rolling it somewhere, allowing it to get lost or something.

The original product announcement has a ton of information. RAndy clearly states that the steering wheel is more of a add-on and nothing like a arcade quality steering wheel - from a durability standpoint.

R added by moderator.   ;D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 12:09:23 pm by JustMichael »

RandyT

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2007, 03:12:31 am »
Very nice DK.  Glad you and Melissa are enjoying it and the kind words are much appreciated.

I thought it was a good review. The kind of review I like to read, without all the technical chat. All the technical chat was done in Andys product announcement.

Err...That "Andy" needs an "R" in front of it ;)

RandyT

Naru

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2007, 04:53:01 am »
If you could please answer this question.
What are the dimensions of the mini racer wheel?

Donkey_Kong

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2007, 10:06:12 am »
If you could please answer this question.
What are the dimensions of the mini racer wheel?

Naru- The Mini Racer Wheel I believe has a 5" Diameter. It is very heavy and durable. It is sexy. Also, why do I get the feeling that the girl in your avatar wouldn't mind playing with our spinners also?  :dunno

EVERYONE ELSE:  7 pages of technical Q  &  A  on the spinner here in the original product announcement...


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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2007, 09:00:22 pm »
Thanks Donkey_Kong!
It may just fit on my Control panel
if I'm smart enough to set up everything right.
Sexy is most definitely a plus.

Melissa Jones

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2007, 09:39:25 pm »
sorry guys, i'm sure you all thought i was really into games since i carve a lot arcade characters out of wood. i guess i'm more into wood than games. ;) but i did try a racing game the other day and as you can see from the pictures i had a smile on my face. i was actually laughing at myself and my inability to drive around a track without crashing and going the wrong way. i dont know who gave me a drivers license but if you see me on the road you should be scared!! anyways i did have fun and i'm sure i will play more once jason gets timbercade done. i do like driving games (must be a girly thing) so i am glad jason got a steering wheel for his arcade game.
Check out my new website... www.nicecarvings.com

fjl

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2007, 12:01:56 am »
lol, u said "wood."  :laugh:

I got one more question, how does this thing connect? PS2? USB? Opti-pac?

KenToad

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2007, 12:38:35 am »
Thanks for the review.

I guess I'm really just finding it smaller than I expected.  The knob looks just a tad bigger than a button.  Also, it was good to have some perspective in the photos, hands vs. the spinner, so thanks to you and Melissa. 

I even think the racer wheel is small enough to work in my bartop spinner.

I want two.

Cheers,
KenToad

P.S. The spinner was also the only arcade control that I could get my wife to touch.  Puzz Loop is definitely a hit with the ladies in this house.

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Re: Turbo Twist 2 REVIEW..It is a BIG HIT!!
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2007, 10:29:27 am »
Beautiful family store :applaud:

I see that I must always buy parts for test :D

fjl

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Someone answer my question...  :hissy: :'(

Naru

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Someone answer my question...  :hissy: :'(

You can choose USB or PS/2

rockin_rick

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Which should you choose?  Is PS/2 less hassle (it seems as if everything USB has some connectivity problem sometime(for me at least))?  Does PS/2 provide less resolution?  Any other pros/cons of each interface?

Thanks,
Rick
If I do not respond to your post in a timely manner, feel free to PM me.

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You can only have one PS/2 mouse connected at a time and it must be connected prior to the PC being powered up.  USB is hot swappable, meaning that you don't need to power down the PC to swap the mouse device.  USB also allows multiple mice and other devices to be connected at the same time.

One thing to check on your USB problems is if the USB device works better on a direct connection to the PC motherboard than connected to a USB hub.  If you don't have enough USB connections on your motherboard you can get USB cards that plug into the expansion slots.

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I mentioned this in my project post since it'll be a part of my cab. I received my TT2 about a week ago. Haven't had a chance to connect it up yet, but the look, the feel and the weight are perfect. I purchased a Tornado spinner the last time around and I would give this spinner the advantage due to it's quality, compactness and look without thinking twice about it. Slikstik, it's time to up the Ante. Great job Randy and GGG.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 04:02:00 pm by (+_+) »
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FrizzleFried

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I have read though this post and someone has asked over and over and over and I don't think i saw a response...

If you wanted to...for whatever reason (kids, scum bag friends,  dog who likes to chew on steering wheels, etc),  LOCK DOWN the steering wheel?!?  Is there an OPTION to screw the wheel to the post?   If not,  does it look simple to modify to ADD such a device?

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RandyT

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I have read though this post and someone has asked over and over and over and I don't think i saw a response...

If you wanted to...for whatever reason (kids, scum bag friends,  dog who likes to chew on steering wheels, etc),  LOCK DOWN the steering wheel?!?  Is there an OPTION to screw the wheel to the post?   If not,  does it look simple to modify to ADD such a device?

I wouldn't do this unless you wanted to keep the wheel on permanently.  Otherwise you would need to take steps to make sure that a set-screw arrangement did not de-form the surface of the shaft and make it impossible to remove or re-attach the wheel or knob.

However, it one really wanted to, they could drill and tap one or more set-screw holes into the steel wheel base to affix it to the shaft of the TT2.

RandyT

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Been looking for a good spinner....thanx

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Randy,

Turbotwist2 Spinner
====================

This looks like an AWESOME spinner, and I am planning to order one (along with the Big Blue knob and Mini-Racer Steering Wheel).

Regarding the knob style, I know you've released your TokenTop knob, but I prefer the look of your Big Blue knob, so would rather go for that.  Do you have the customised Big Blue knob with the "Space Invaders" alien decal ... I saw this on another thread, but it's not available on your web store.  Is that decal etched on permanently, or is a sticker that will deteriorate or peel off over time ??

As long as I don't intend on playing too much Tempest, are there any other games that would suffer from NOT having the Energy Storage Cylinder ??  As far as I'm aware, I don't need the ESC, but I'd appreciate your advice.

The main games I'm initially looking to play with the spinner are Arkanoid (with the Big Blue knob) and Super Sprint (with the Mini-Racer Steering Wheel).

D_K : Thanks for posting your GREAT review on the TT2 spinner ... and thanks to your wife Melissa for all the playtesting in your pics, and it just so happens she's playing the games I'm most interested in playing with the spinner.  Geez, you're lucky mate, I wish my wife was into games.  Do you have the ESC, out of interest ??

Your new joystick with VirtualAnalog
=====================================

Do you have any news about your new joystick with the VirtualAnalog feature ??

When do you expect this to come to market ??

Will this be replacing your 49-way sticks with the GP-Wiz 49 interface ??

Will it rival the U360 from Ultimarc, or are they totally different beasts ??  I'm not trying to start a "war of words" between yourself and Andy from Ultimarc, as the U360 certainly seems like a revolutionary product.  I just need some info. as to  whether I should order the U360, or "hang out" and wait for your new stick.

My Control Panel usage
=======================

I'm a newbie.

I've dabbled with MAME to a small extent over time, but have only ever played the games with the keyboard (which just ain't the same).

I've just "taken the plunge" and invested in an X-Arcade Tankstick controller ... OK, so I haven't yet been game enough to build my own controller, but it sure leaves the keyboard for dead.

But the Tankstick lacks the spinner, and doesn't have any seamless way to play "non 8 way" games (eg, 4 way/Q*Bert/49 way/Analog), so I'm planning to customise it by replacing the joysticks, and adding a spinner to it.

Failing this, I may decide to build a second customised CP with these controls.

RandyT

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Regarding the knob style, I know you've released your TokenTop knob, but I prefer the look of your Big Blue knob, so would rather go for that.  Do you have the customised Big Blue knob with the "Space Invaders" alien decal ... I saw this on another thread, but it's not available on your web store.  Is that decal etched on permanently, or is a sticker that will deteriorate or peel off over time ??

It is a sticker.  I hope to be doing something on that front in a bit, but I'm on the joystick project at the moment.  I'm also looking at different possibilities for designs and haven't decided on anything in particular yet.  But I do have something better planned than plain cut vinyl.

Quote
As long as I don't intend on playing too much Tempest, are there any other games that would suffer from NOT having the Energy Storage Cylinder ??  As far as I'm aware, I don't need the ESC, but I'd appreciate your advice.  The main games I'm initially looking to play with the spinner are Arkanoid (with the Big Blue knob) and Super Sprint (with the Mini-Racer Steering Wheel).

If you really don't care about games that might need the control to continue to rotate a bit when you let go of it, then no, you do need the ESC.  The Wheel has plenty of weight and will spin a long time.

Quote
Your new joystick with VirtualAnalog
=====================================

Do you have any news about your new joystick with the VirtualAnalog feature ??

I'll have a release notice coming on this subject shortly.  The only thing I can tell you is that it's a user-tweakable setting that will intelligently generate data for much more than the actual 49 joystick positions.  It is designed to enhance the playability of a number of analog games.

Quote
When do you expect this to come to market ??

When I'm sure it's the best it can be ;)

Quote
Will this be replacing your 49-way sticks with the GP-Wiz 49 interface ??

The original interface will continue to be offered in some form.  It may get some new features and modes however.

Quote
I just need some info. as to  whether I should order the U360, or "hang out" and wait for your new stick.

I can't answer this question.  The only thing I can say is that individuals should evaluate their own needs and keep in mind the fact that what makes a good joystick is not decided by a laundry list of "features", rather how well it feels and performs for a specific individual using it.  I can only tell you that I personally would not trade the new 49-ways, with the modifications I designed, for any other sticks bar none.  For me, the rubber grommet centering as used on original arcade sticks, provides a positive feel that can't be produced by any other means.  The DRS modes and flexibility of the new interface completes the experience.  The new interface also adds excellent playability to several games that had very poor options before, as well as a never before seen feature I developed that might be a little tricky to get the hang of, but will be quite powerful when you do.

Quote
But the Tankstick lacks the spinner, and doesn't have any seamless way to play "non 8 way" games (eg, 4 way/Q*Bert/49 way/Analog), so I'm planning to customise it by replacing the joysticks, and adding a spinner to it.

Failing this, I may decide to build a second customised CP with these controls.

49-ways have a deeper footprint so you will need to take measurements of your panel before you make your decision..  The spinner is so small, to say that it is a non-issue in this regard would be a gross understatement :)

RandyT
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 12:03:15 pm by RandyT »

TPB

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Randy,

Apart from your innovative and quality products, I can see you have a reputation for helpfulness and customer service, unlike some in the industry, and that's very important to prospective customers.

I'm sold on the TurboTwist 2 spinner and accessories (maybe even 2 of them for head-to-head contests in Super Sprint).

Although I'll be holding off my order until your new sticks come to market ... it'll minimise shipping costs by bundling everything into the one order, and I have a gut feeling I'll like the look of your sticks, and may decide to order a couple of them.

I saw it mentioned that your new sticks will include a rotary (Ikari warriors) option ... it just gets better.

A couple more questions about the TT2 spinner (no rush to answer) ...

The accessories I have in mind for the TT2 are the Big Blue knob and "Mini Racer Steering Wheel".

* Given Tempest requires a control with added weight, would it be playable with the steering wheel ... I realise this control is far from "arcade authentic" for this game, but would the game be playable with this control nonetheless ??

* If I ordered the Flywheel (ESC cylinder) to use with the Big Blue knob, would this make Arkanoid or DOH unplayable unless the flywheel was removed ??

* With the flywheel in place, would it be "too much weight" when used in conjunction with the steering wheel for driving games (eg, Super Sprint), or is the steering wheel unaffected by the presence (or absence) of the flywheel ??

* Another option, I guess, would be for me to order the TokenTop knob in addition to the Big Blue knob and Steering Wheel ... although this option comes at additional expense.  I could then use the TokenTop knob for Tempest (or any other spinner game that requires weight), the steering wheel for driving games, and the Big Blue knob for Arkanoid and DOH (or any other spinner game that doesn't require weight) :

I realise the whole purpose of the TokenTop knob is that it's a "one size fits all" solution with no other knobs required ... but I prefer the look of the Big Blue knob, so I guess there's nothing to stop me (apart from the cost consideration) from ordering BOTH knobs ... this would allow me the option of using the TokenTop knob where weight is required (easier than opening up the Control Panel to add or remove a flywheel).

FrizzleFried

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You would be much better off playing Tempest with just Big Blue than with the wheel,   added weight or not.  The weight simply sits at the bottom of the spinner (under the panel of course).  It adds a bit of weight to the "feel" of the spinner and allows it to freely spin a few extra rotations.   Remove the weight and the spinner is still a spinner,  just "feels" lighter.   Tempest will play FINE without the weight,  just not quite arcade authentic,  and you won't be able to do the multiple spin that most of us like to do after a level is complete.

I,  for one,  use the weight...I like the feel of it...even in Arkanoid and DoH...but I really don't play a whole lot of either,  I am more a Tempest fan.

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Although I'll be holding off my order until your new sticks come to market ... it'll minimise shipping costs by bundling everything into the one order, and I have a gut feeling I'll like the look of your sticks, and may decide to order a couple of them.

I saw it mentioned that your new sticks will include a rotary (Ikari warriors) option ... it just gets better.

It's an option and isn't included at the base price of the stick.  But it's nice to have options :)

Quote
* Given Tempest requires a control with added weight, would it be playable with the steering wheel ... I realise this control is far from "arcade authentic" for this game, but would the game be playable with this control nonetheless ??

Heh, I agree mostly with what FF stated on this one, but I had to go try it :).  Surprisingly, it did quite well.  Most Tempest players will bounce their fingertips around the perimeter of the knob (Ie, not a lot of "twisting") so it played very similarly.  However, because the diameter is so large, an increase of 1 point in sensitivity helps a bit.

Quote
* If I ordered the Flywheel (ESC cylinder) to use with the Big Blue knob, would this make Arkanoid or DOH unplayable unless the flywheel was removed ??

No, not at all.  The ESC was designed not to make it's presence overtly sensed by the user and to get the spinner to spin.  It's always going to be a compromise between those two elements, but I think it works well and those two titles play fine with or without the extra weight.

Quote
* With the flywheel in place, would it be "too much weight" when used in conjunction with the steering wheel for driving games (eg, Super Sprint), or is the steering wheel unaffected by the presence (or absence) of the flywheel ??

The wheel has so much of it's own weight that the ESC is undetectable.

Quote
I realise the whole purpose of the TokenTop knob is that it's a "one size fits all" solution with no other knobs required ... but I prefer the look of the Big Blue knob, so I guess there's nothing to stop me (apart from the cost consideration) from ordering BOTH knobs ... this would allow me the option of using the TokenTop knob where weight is required (easier than opening up the Control Panel to add or remove a flywheel).

Personally, I far prefer the TokenTop to BigBlue.  While the TokenTop is smaller than the original Arkanoid knob, BigBlue is actually larger by about the same amount.  So I guess it's one of those "pick your poison" scenarios.  The closest to actual size is the "Black Dimple" style knob.

The TokenTop also has the ability to adjust the resistance of the spin to simulate the effect of the gearing on the original Arkanoid control.  I think this is a big plus for fans of those style games.

RandyT

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Hi there ,would the TT2 work with the minipac easy enough , and would it be easy to set up (beginner here ) ,I've been looking for a spinner and this is the one for me , do I need to buy the Energy Storage Cylinder ( I've never used a spinner with mame).
I'm thinking TT2 , big blue , token ,maybe the Energy Storage Cylinder, and of course the steering wheel , any help  please  :cheers:
Help I'm useless !!!!

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Hi there ,would the TT2 work with the minipac easy enough , and would it be easy to set up

The TT2 ships with it's own interface and it is included in the price.

I've been looking for a spinner and this is the one for me , do I need to buy the Energy Storage Cylinder

With the token knob, the energy storage cylinder is not necessary as the adjust ability and weight of the token knob essentially perform the tasks of the cylinder & more...A definite perk for choosing the Token Spinner Knob option.

I'm thinking TT2 , big blue , token ,maybe the Energy Storage Cylinder,

I have seen it mentioned that it could be desired to have other knobs even with the token inlaid knobs...I myself am happy with that knob only. My only alternative is the Mini Racer Wheel for playing those steering games in a pinch. I believe the racer wheel is in three sizes now. i have the 5". It is great for space saving but I bet the 7" or 9" would be SWEET as well!!

 :cheers:  and Good Luck!
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Thanks , so it plug's straight into my PC without having to use the minipac .
I think I'll just get the token top and the steering wheel , keep it simple (like me :laugh2:).
cheers  :cheers:
Help I'm useless !!!!

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Wheel in three sizes?  I haven't been keeping up.

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New Review of the Token Knob by Kevin Steele from Retroblast.


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I'm not sure why Kevin felt qualified to do a review of the AccuTwist™ feature when he doesn't own a TT2.  The first line of the catalog description for the knob is:

"GroovyGameGear would like to introduce the TokenTop™ Premium Spinner Knob, specially designed to add even more ground-breaking features to the already impressive list of the TurboTwist 2™ spinner."

It doesn't state anything about adding features to any other spinner model than the TT2 which, oddly, wasn't even mentioned.  :dunno

The feel of the "felt" (which is not just simple department store material, mind you) rubbing against a control panel is entirely different than the interaction between it and the precision turned aluminum top of the TT2.  The feature requires a TT2 to work well.

He also poo-poo's the "system" as "just a piece of felt", but I'm guessing he didn't stop to think about other things that allow this to work, like the close tolerances of the bore and the fact that the  thing he tightens inside doesn't ruin the shaft from repeated adjustments. Or, that perhaps the TT2's turned aluminum surface might also be considered a functional component.

Oh well, those who use it every day know the deal, but I thought it was important to respond.  At least he gives it credit for looking good and"not grinding your fingertips off  :cheers:

RandyT

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I'm not sure why Kevin felt qualified to do a review of the AccuTwist™ feature when he doesn't own a TT2. 
RandyT


This is a reason there are consultants. But Retroblast isn't a commercial enterprise, so this practice may not be in effect.

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This is a reason there are consultants. But Retroblast isn't a commercial enterprise, so this practice may not be in effect.

Actually, they are, but the rest went right over my head.  Could you elaborate on your statement a little?  (sorry, a bit slow today :) )

Thanks,
RandyT
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 05:12:45 pm by RandyT »

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Randy,

My points are valid, even if you don't care to agree. My point was that this "system" is nothing more than a felt pad. That plus a flat-tipped set pin still doesn't constitute an "on the fly arcade spinner resistance adjustment technology." That's marketing speak if I ever heard it, and not entirely accurate in my opinion ("on the fly?" By using a torx wrench to adjust it?)

Let's see, I give the knob a positive review, yet you start sniping at the one minor negative (not even listed in the "Cons"), even when the review says it's an effective method of adjusting resistance.

You've got a pretty big chip on your shoulder, dude...
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

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My points are valid, even if you don't care to agree. My point was that this "system" is nothing more than a felt pad. That plus a flat-tipped set pin still doesn't constitute an "on the fly arcade spinner resistance adjustment technology." That's marketing speak if I ever heard it, and not entirely accurate in my opinion ("on the fly?" By using a torx wrench to adjust it?)

Edited to state that we agree to disagree, as per the norm.  :)


RandyT
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 04:31:29 pm by RandyT »

shorthair

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This is a reason there are consultants. But Retroblast isn't a commercial enterprise, so this practice may not be in effect.

Actually, they are, but the rest went right over my head.  Could you elaborate on your statement a little?  (sorry, a bit slow today :) )

Thanks,
RandyT

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Quote
Let's see, I give the knob a positive review, yet you start sniping at the one minor negative (not even listed in the "Cons"), even when the review says it's an effective method of adjusting resistance.

I take it that you mean positive by virtue of it not being overtly negative.  But there was a caveat every time you mentioned something even remotely positive.  You call it "simple" and "overblown", yet there was nothing simple about selecting, or designing the parts that allow it to work.  It's also never been done before.  Simple things are easily implemented and dead obvious.  This was neither as the problem has existed for a long time without any type of solution.  Until now.

Quote
You've got a pretty big chip on your shoulder, dude...

My response to this is that I choose not to respond to these types of comments.  What I wrote was in defense of statements in your review, not about you.  Please feel free to defend your statements using logic and your knowledge of engineering principle, as I have attempted to do above.  Personal insults don't help to effectively convey your points.

RandyT

Hey Randy, you didn't reinvent the wheel, you made a speed control for a spinner with felt and a screw.  Was it amazing?  Sure.  Is it worth fighting to the death for over terms?  I don't know.  From an average persons stance, I see nothing wrong with what Kevin is saying.  I would explain it the exact same way he did.  You have a great product and you add a lot of fluff to your advertising, so what?  Let him say his part and leave him alone.  Geez man.

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...you add a lot of fluff to your advertising, so what?  Let him say his part and leave him alone.  Geez man.

Right, so why why make a big deal out of it?  It's everywhere you look.  But apparently I've overstepped a boundary that exists only for me.

Just trying to figure out why that is, and to back up the claims with some solid facts.  Sorry if I'm coming on too strong about it.  That passion, BTW, is what keeps me up at night working on these types of things.  :cheers:

RandyT

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It's not you individually.  I haven't seen the owner of Nintendo in the Console forum sticking up for every little thing.  You have the best product available.  Everyone acknowledges that.  It doesn't look good on you to split hairs with Kevin about it over a trivial dialogue issue.  You advertise your product to the best of its ability, that's what people in business do.  The rest of us wade through it and decipher it.  It is an innovative idea, that's what is important.  The rest of this argument is pointless and it looks bad upon you to fight with someone over a statement that hurts you publicly more to fight against it than just letting it go.  A good argument was when people were saying that the resolution of spinners didn't matter.  That's worth splitting hairs over.  This is just about someone's interpretation of your ad.  It's obvious that you are passionate about what you do, but why can't you be the bigger man about things that are trivial at best and let them go?  There's nothing wrong with being OCD, but it's hard to work with a straight jacket on.

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Randy,

Your huge reply just proves my point - you do have a chip on your shoulder. As I've done before, I stand by my review. You're free to disagree with it, of course, and I'm certain that you will.

Tell you what, though - I'll make you a promise that should make both you and I very, very happy: I will never again review any GGG product. Should reduce the stress levels for us both.  ;D

Kevin
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 :police: All right you guys let's calm down a bit here.  Kevin has a right to review products as he sees fit even if his technical words may be wrong on occasion.  I do the same thing Kevin so don't go flaming me.  Randy puts his heart and sole into his work so he takes it personal when someone says anything remotely negative or incorrect.  I know this from personal dialog with him. 

Randy's attitude about his products is what makes them some of the best if not the best.  His attention to detail and customer service makes his competition bring up the quality of their products.  I believe that this only makes the hobby/business for us better in the long run. 

Kevin and his staff review the products available to us to the best of their ability and give us a good starting point in our search for the right product for the job we are looking for.  All we need to keep in mind is that their word is not the first nor last word on the subjects that they cover.  Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them.  We as readers need to sift through all the information available and make the best choice to fit our needs.

I think that this hijack has gone on far enough.  The review that was the seed of this thread should be left to stand on it's own.  :police:

Kaytrim
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 11:44:47 am by Kaytrim »

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It's not you individually.  I haven't seen the owner of Nintendo in the Console forum sticking up for every little thing.  You have the best product available.  Everyone acknowledges that.  It doesn't look good on you to split hairs with Kevin about it over a trivial dialogue issue.  You advertise your product to the best of its ability, that's what people in business do.  The rest of us wade through it and decipher it.  It is an innovative idea, that's what is important.  The rest of this argument is pointless and it looks bad upon you to fight with someone over a statement that hurts you publicly more to fight against it than just letting it go.  A good argument was when people were saying that the resolution of spinners didn't matter.  That's worth splitting hairs over.  This is just about someone's interpretation of your ad.  It's obvious that you are passionate about what you do, but why can't you be the bigger man about things that are trivial at best and let them go?

I agree with most of what you are saying here, but keep in mind that the owners (is it not a publicly traded company?) of Nintendo didn't personally contribute much, if anything,  to the actual design or construction of the consoles they produce.  The disconnection is far greater and they would rather resort to legal pressures.  But you do quite often see individual designers and engineers in forums defending misunderstood aspects of the products they helped to create.

I'm more interested in keeping the story straight than keeping feathers unruffled, or maintaining a particular public image. That is precisely the same motivation that made me so adamant about the issue of resolution when it arose.  Many of the "converted" thought resolution in a spinner was a trivial discussion until that discussion took place, so it's difficult for me not to see the value in, or to be fearful of "talking about something."

Quote
There's nothing wrong with being OCD, but it's hard to work with a straight jacket on.

But the dexterity in my feet has improved greatly!  ;D

RandyT


*edit*

Thanks for the tempered viewpoint, Kaytrim.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 04:39:58 pm by RandyT »

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Thanks for the tempered viewpoint, Kaytrim.

NP Randy, let's just agree to disagree is all I am saying.  ;D

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Randy: obviously I messed up my post, but it was something to the effect of 'what I said didn't matter, but your point of Steele neglecting to notice the product description on your site is true. And even after informing him here of it, he still neglected it.  Equally, I understand your vehemence about conceptual consistency...but, you can only do so much. (Although mccoy was right in that you didn't need to go to the lenght you did. It would've been best to state your initial point and leave it at that.)

And on that note: Steele, that last was totally childish. Also, your personal feelings about his practice aren't really relevant to the performance of the item. Lastly, your ignoring his basic point is what started this in the first place.  It helps to follow the product description.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 09:35:09 pm by shorthair »

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I don't understand what the problem is, someone stated their opinion on a product and someone else takes that as a direct insult.  I'm sure everyone, including Kev will agree that Randy makes great products and puts alot of time and effort into it for the community, but .... and Randy I don't know how to come off saying this without sounding like a ass and I'm not referring directly to the knob....

Whenever someone doesn't give you a 100 percent positive review, you go into this defense mode that just rubs alot of people the wrong way.  I don't think it will affect people who have already bought from you and know your products, but people who don't know you may be put off by it, thus hurting sales.

As much as you know about arcade products, you are not " GOD " when developing them.  You can't make the perfect device, nobody can.  Someone will always find a problem with it, this is something your going to have to learn to accept.  Granted, your product is better than 95 % of the competition, but it will not fulfill everyone's needs.

Don't take this personal, but just as constructive criticism.  Don't let ego get in the way.

Now you and Kev get a corner together and makeup

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Now you and Kev get a corner together and makeup

Just please...please don't make-out...

MY EYES!!


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Whenever someone doesn't give you a 100 percent positive review, you go into this defense mode that just rubs alot of people the wrong way.  I don't think it will affect people who have already bought from you and know your products, but people who don't know you may be put off by it, thus hurting sales.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but there are no "GOD" complexes here.  I never expect a 100% positive review for my products.

A review from a commercial website is a product, and when that product is substandard, it is not "taboo" to criticize it.  At least as long as the criticism is constructive (I.e. gives a roadmap for improvement.)

The problem with poor reviewing practices is just as real as the problem with poor products.  It costs members of the community money by not giving us proper information to decide what is most suitable for our needs.  I'd like to see the level of professionalism in that field stepped up for the good of all of us here, vendors and users alike.

That's all I'm saying.

RandyT

*edited for brevity*
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:03:45 pm by RandyT »

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And on that note: Steele, that last was totally childish. Also, your personal feelings about his practice aren't really relevant to the performance of the item. Lastly, your ignoring his basic point is what started this in the first place.  It helps to follow the product description.

Who the heck is shorthair ? And what the heck is he trying to say ?
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I'm waiting for an answer, too.

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Um, I really enjoy my TT2.

<tiptoe-ing>
And, Kevin, you said "dude." So, I say Randy wins.  ;)
</tiptoe-ing>

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I thought Kev's review of the TokenTop, was informative to the extent that it revealed :

(1) how the resistance is achieved - via that magic piece of felt - the "secret ingredient" we were unaware of.

(2) how the resistance is adjusted - using an Allen key.

(3) how the resistance is applied - using varying degrees of downward pressure on the surface below.

With point (3) above, the "surface below" is a contentious issue ... Randy states this should be the surface of the TT2, but for Kev's review, it was the surface of the Control Panel, with the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner.

While I think Kev's review revealed some helpful information, Randy's reply was also helpful in revealing shortcomings in the review.

Randy :

Regardless of what Kev had to say in his review, I'd say you'd have been a bit miffed regardless, as Kevin effectively deflated the "veil of mystique" you sought to have around this product, with the trademarked Accu-Twist catchphrase.  By revealing the secret ingredient - a piece of felt - it deflates the aura somewhat.

I can see how this would upset you.  It would be akin to someone posting a review of KFC chicken that did a chemical analysis to identify the "11 secret herbs and spices", or similarly, a review that revealed the makeup of the secret formula used for Coca-Cola.

All companies, including KFC and Coca-Cola, like to maintain a certain aura about their products.  We would not expect any difference from yourself.

You have pride in your products, the workmanship put into them, and your attention to detail.  And rightly so.

HOWEVER, from a CONSUMER'S viewpoint, the more information we have, the better.

So I appreciate Kev's review, but I also appreciate your response.

Kev :

While I'm glad you wrote your review, and have found it to be helpful, I believe these remarks you made were uncalled for :

(1) Lambasting Randy for having a supposed "chip on his shoulder"

(2) When you couldn't hack the discussion any more, threatening Randy that you wouldn't review any of his products in future.

Randy - one last thing :

Given you didn't appreciate Kev doing a review of the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner, it begs the question ... why do you sell it separately ??

If the TokenTop should ONLY be used in CONJUNCTION with the TT2 spinner, perhaps you should ONLY offer it for sale as an OPTIONAL ACCESSORY for the TT2 spinner, just as you currently do for the Mini Racer Steering Wheel, and all the other knob types (Big Blue, etc.)

BTW, it's really cool how you now offer 3 different sizes for the Steering Wheel ... your innovation knows no limits, which is great to see.

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Regardless of what Kev had to say in his review, I'd say you'd have been a bit miffed regardless, as Kevin effectively deflated the "veil of mystique" you sought to have around this product, with the trademarked Accu-Twist catchphrase.  By revealing the secret ingredient - a piece of felt - it deflates the aura somewhat.

Saying that the Accu-Twist system is "just a piece of felt" is like saying that your computer case is "just some bent sheet metal with holes in it."  The words one uses to describe something can "color" it a certain way to the reader.  Both of the above are, IMHO, unfair descriptions of the items and show a certain amount of negative bias.

As for the mystique of the operation, that's not a big deal.  All of the working components were specially selected and are by no means commonplace items.  It cost me more to ship 1 sheet of the material used for the resistance than the cost of 5 sheets of department store felt :).

Quote
Given you didn't appreciate Kev doing a review of the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner, it begs the question ... why do you sell it separately ??

Because at the end of the day, the TokenTop is still a knob that fits a .250" spinner shaft and has a unique look and feel that no other knob on the market has.  Even if the Accu-Twist feature doesn't work especially well for an individual with their non-TT2 spinner (which I remind folks that it is not advertised, nor in any way claimed to do), they might just want the features that they can take advantage of.  So, as a service to those individuals, it is offered separately. 

If enough people request it, I'll also offer the steering wheels as separate items.  But again, most optics based steering controls used gearing to get high resolution and a low-res spinner just won't work well with a "knob" that large.  As you might imagine, a review criticizing the usability of the steering wheels based on that unintended combo, without even mentioning the hardware it was designed for, would bother me as well. :)

RandyT

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Fair comments Randy.

It must be tough, putting in all that time and effort to develop a new product, and then being at the whim of reviewers.

But, hopefully those who go to the trouble of reading reviews, will not rely on the review alone, but will also seek factual information about the product from other sources, to obtain "the full story".

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Just browsing the forums and found this thread. I could not stay silent. I have begun purchasing ALL of my Arcade cab stuff from Groovygamegear. Not only does it ship super fast, the products are great and the customer service is unparalleled. I feel like I'm doing a commercial here but I've ordered all my CP parts from GGG and have had an absolute blast using them. Especially the TurboTwist. I ordered the base model with the ESC but after reading this post I'll be putting in an order for a mini-wheel ASAP.  I highly recommend both the TurboTwist spinner and GGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Derek Melton


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So dmel75.... you have dug up a thread from before I joined here and that has brought this product to my attention. I will definitely be adding this to my CP.

The question is should I thank you for improving my cab or curse you for the time I now have to spend to juggle things around on my CP?  :P
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Considering the Mini Wheels myself.  I would appreciated anyone who has these posting some pictures of their control panel as well as some insight has to how they are working.

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hello, I say the measure in exact height of the twist turbo 2?
thanks