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Author Topic: **REVIEW**No longer relevant  (Read 27220 times)

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RandyT

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...you add a lot of fluff to your advertising, so what?  Let him say his part and leave him alone.  Geez man.

Right, so why why make a big deal out of it?  It's everywhere you look.  But apparently I've overstepped a boundary that exists only for me.

Just trying to figure out why that is, and to back up the claims with some solid facts.  Sorry if I'm coming on too strong about it.  That passion, BTW, is what keeps me up at night working on these types of things.  :cheers:

RandyT

mccoy178

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It's not you individually.  I haven't seen the owner of Nintendo in the Console forum sticking up for every little thing.  You have the best product available.  Everyone acknowledges that.  It doesn't look good on you to split hairs with Kevin about it over a trivial dialogue issue.  You advertise your product to the best of its ability, that's what people in business do.  The rest of us wade through it and decipher it.  It is an innovative idea, that's what is important.  The rest of this argument is pointless and it looks bad upon you to fight with someone over a statement that hurts you publicly more to fight against it than just letting it go.  A good argument was when people were saying that the resolution of spinners didn't matter.  That's worth splitting hairs over.  This is just about someone's interpretation of your ad.  It's obvious that you are passionate about what you do, but why can't you be the bigger man about things that are trivial at best and let them go?  There's nothing wrong with being OCD, but it's hard to work with a straight jacket on.

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Randy,

Your huge reply just proves my point - you do have a chip on your shoulder. As I've done before, I stand by my review. You're free to disagree with it, of course, and I'm certain that you will.

Tell you what, though - I'll make you a promise that should make both you and I very, very happy: I will never again review any GGG product. Should reduce the stress levels for us both.  ;D

Kevin
Kevin Steele, Former Editor and Publisher of RetroBlast! and GameRoom Magazine

Kaytrim

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 :police: All right you guys let's calm down a bit here.  Kevin has a right to review products as he sees fit even if his technical words may be wrong on occasion.  I do the same thing Kevin so don't go flaming me.  Randy puts his heart and sole into his work so he takes it personal when someone says anything remotely negative or incorrect.  I know this from personal dialog with him. 

Randy's attitude about his products is what makes them some of the best if not the best.  His attention to detail and customer service makes his competition bring up the quality of their products.  I believe that this only makes the hobby/business for us better in the long run. 

Kevin and his staff review the products available to us to the best of their ability and give us a good starting point in our search for the right product for the job we are looking for.  All we need to keep in mind is that their word is not the first nor last word on the subjects that they cover.  Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them.  We as readers need to sift through all the information available and make the best choice to fit our needs.

I think that this hijack has gone on far enough.  The review that was the seed of this thread should be left to stand on it's own.  :police:

Kaytrim
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 11:44:47 am by Kaytrim »

RandyT

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It's not you individually.  I haven't seen the owner of Nintendo in the Console forum sticking up for every little thing.  You have the best product available.  Everyone acknowledges that.  It doesn't look good on you to split hairs with Kevin about it over a trivial dialogue issue.  You advertise your product to the best of its ability, that's what people in business do.  The rest of us wade through it and decipher it.  It is an innovative idea, that's what is important.  The rest of this argument is pointless and it looks bad upon you to fight with someone over a statement that hurts you publicly more to fight against it than just letting it go.  A good argument was when people were saying that the resolution of spinners didn't matter.  That's worth splitting hairs over.  This is just about someone's interpretation of your ad.  It's obvious that you are passionate about what you do, but why can't you be the bigger man about things that are trivial at best and let them go?

I agree with most of what you are saying here, but keep in mind that the owners (is it not a publicly traded company?) of Nintendo didn't personally contribute much, if anything,  to the actual design or construction of the consoles they produce.  The disconnection is far greater and they would rather resort to legal pressures.  But you do quite often see individual designers and engineers in forums defending misunderstood aspects of the products they helped to create.

I'm more interested in keeping the story straight than keeping feathers unruffled, or maintaining a particular public image. That is precisely the same motivation that made me so adamant about the issue of resolution when it arose.  Many of the "converted" thought resolution in a spinner was a trivial discussion until that discussion took place, so it's difficult for me not to see the value in, or to be fearful of "talking about something."

Quote
There's nothing wrong with being OCD, but it's hard to work with a straight jacket on.

But the dexterity in my feet has improved greatly!  ;D

RandyT


*edit*

Thanks for the tempered viewpoint, Kaytrim.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 04:39:58 pm by RandyT »

Kaytrim

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Thanks for the tempered viewpoint, Kaytrim.

NP Randy, let's just agree to disagree is all I am saying.  ;D

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Randy: obviously I messed up my post, but it was something to the effect of 'what I said didn't matter, but your point of Steele neglecting to notice the product description on your site is true. And even after informing him here of it, he still neglected it.  Equally, I understand your vehemence about conceptual consistency...but, you can only do so much. (Although mccoy was right in that you didn't need to go to the lenght you did. It would've been best to state your initial point and leave it at that.)

And on that note: Steele, that last was totally childish. Also, your personal feelings about his practice aren't really relevant to the performance of the item. Lastly, your ignoring his basic point is what started this in the first place.  It helps to follow the product description.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 09:35:09 pm by shorthair »

vader

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I don't understand what the problem is, someone stated their opinion on a product and someone else takes that as a direct insult.  I'm sure everyone, including Kev will agree that Randy makes great products and puts alot of time and effort into it for the community, but .... and Randy I don't know how to come off saying this without sounding like a ass and I'm not referring directly to the knob....

Whenever someone doesn't give you a 100 percent positive review, you go into this defense mode that just rubs alot of people the wrong way.  I don't think it will affect people who have already bought from you and know your products, but people who don't know you may be put off by it, thus hurting sales.

As much as you know about arcade products, you are not " GOD " when developing them.  You can't make the perfect device, nobody can.  Someone will always find a problem with it, this is something your going to have to learn to accept.  Granted, your product is better than 95 % of the competition, but it will not fulfill everyone's needs.

Don't take this personal, but just as constructive criticism.  Don't let ego get in the way.

Now you and Kev get a corner together and makeup

Donkey_Kong

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Now you and Kev get a corner together and makeup

Just please...please don't make-out...

MY EYES!!


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RandyT

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Whenever someone doesn't give you a 100 percent positive review, you go into this defense mode that just rubs alot of people the wrong way.  I don't think it will affect people who have already bought from you and know your products, but people who don't know you may be put off by it, thus hurting sales.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but there are no "GOD" complexes here.  I never expect a 100% positive review for my products.

A review from a commercial website is a product, and when that product is substandard, it is not "taboo" to criticize it.  At least as long as the criticism is constructive (I.e. gives a roadmap for improvement.)

The problem with poor reviewing practices is just as real as the problem with poor products.  It costs members of the community money by not giving us proper information to decide what is most suitable for our needs.  I'd like to see the level of professionalism in that field stepped up for the good of all of us here, vendors and users alike.

That's all I'm saying.

RandyT

*edited for brevity*
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:03:45 pm by RandyT »

CheffoJeffo

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And on that note: Steele, that last was totally childish. Also, your personal feelings about his practice aren't really relevant to the performance of the item. Lastly, your ignoring his basic point is what started this in the first place.  It helps to follow the product description.

Who the heck is shorthair ? And what the heck is he trying to say ?
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shorthair

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I'm waiting for an answer, too.

byKnight

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Um, I really enjoy my TT2.

<tiptoe-ing>
And, Kevin, you said "dude." So, I say Randy wins.  ;)
</tiptoe-ing>

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I thought Kev's review of the TokenTop, was informative to the extent that it revealed :

(1) how the resistance is achieved - via that magic piece of felt - the "secret ingredient" we were unaware of.

(2) how the resistance is adjusted - using an Allen key.

(3) how the resistance is applied - using varying degrees of downward pressure on the surface below.

With point (3) above, the "surface below" is a contentious issue ... Randy states this should be the surface of the TT2, but for Kev's review, it was the surface of the Control Panel, with the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner.

While I think Kev's review revealed some helpful information, Randy's reply was also helpful in revealing shortcomings in the review.

Randy :

Regardless of what Kev had to say in his review, I'd say you'd have been a bit miffed regardless, as Kevin effectively deflated the "veil of mystique" you sought to have around this product, with the trademarked Accu-Twist catchphrase.  By revealing the secret ingredient - a piece of felt - it deflates the aura somewhat.

I can see how this would upset you.  It would be akin to someone posting a review of KFC chicken that did a chemical analysis to identify the "11 secret herbs and spices", or similarly, a review that revealed the makeup of the secret formula used for Coca-Cola.

All companies, including KFC and Coca-Cola, like to maintain a certain aura about their products.  We would not expect any difference from yourself.

You have pride in your products, the workmanship put into them, and your attention to detail.  And rightly so.

HOWEVER, from a CONSUMER'S viewpoint, the more information we have, the better.

So I appreciate Kev's review, but I also appreciate your response.

Kev :

While I'm glad you wrote your review, and have found it to be helpful, I believe these remarks you made were uncalled for :

(1) Lambasting Randy for having a supposed "chip on his shoulder"

(2) When you couldn't hack the discussion any more, threatening Randy that you wouldn't review any of his products in future.

Randy - one last thing :

Given you didn't appreciate Kev doing a review of the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner, it begs the question ... why do you sell it separately ??

If the TokenTop should ONLY be used in CONJUNCTION with the TT2 spinner, perhaps you should ONLY offer it for sale as an OPTIONAL ACCESSORY for the TT2 spinner, just as you currently do for the Mini Racer Steering Wheel, and all the other knob types (Big Blue, etc.)

BTW, it's really cool how you now offer 3 different sizes for the Steering Wheel ... your innovation knows no limits, which is great to see.

RandyT

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Regardless of what Kev had to say in his review, I'd say you'd have been a bit miffed regardless, as Kevin effectively deflated the "veil of mystique" you sought to have around this product, with the trademarked Accu-Twist catchphrase.  By revealing the secret ingredient - a piece of felt - it deflates the aura somewhat.

Saying that the Accu-Twist system is "just a piece of felt" is like saying that your computer case is "just some bent sheet metal with holes in it."  The words one uses to describe something can "color" it a certain way to the reader.  Both of the above are, IMHO, unfair descriptions of the items and show a certain amount of negative bias.

As for the mystique of the operation, that's not a big deal.  All of the working components were specially selected and are by no means commonplace items.  It cost me more to ship 1 sheet of the material used for the resistance than the cost of 5 sheets of department store felt :).

Quote
Given you didn't appreciate Kev doing a review of the TokenTop attached to a Non-TT2 spinner, it begs the question ... why do you sell it separately ??

Because at the end of the day, the TokenTop is still a knob that fits a .250" spinner shaft and has a unique look and feel that no other knob on the market has.  Even if the Accu-Twist feature doesn't work especially well for an individual with their non-TT2 spinner (which I remind folks that it is not advertised, nor in any way claimed to do), they might just want the features that they can take advantage of.  So, as a service to those individuals, it is offered separately. 

If enough people request it, I'll also offer the steering wheels as separate items.  But again, most optics based steering controls used gearing to get high resolution and a low-res spinner just won't work well with a "knob" that large.  As you might imagine, a review criticizing the usability of the steering wheels based on that unintended combo, without even mentioning the hardware it was designed for, would bother me as well. :)

RandyT

TPB

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Fair comments Randy.

It must be tough, putting in all that time and effort to develop a new product, and then being at the whim of reviewers.

But, hopefully those who go to the trouble of reading reviews, will not rely on the review alone, but will also seek factual information about the product from other sources, to obtain "the full story".

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Just browsing the forums and found this thread. I could not stay silent. I have begun purchasing ALL of my Arcade cab stuff from Groovygamegear. Not only does it ship super fast, the products are great and the customer service is unparalleled. I feel like I'm doing a commercial here but I've ordered all my CP parts from GGG and have had an absolute blast using them. Especially the TurboTwist. I ordered the base model with the ESC but after reading this post I'll be putting in an order for a mini-wheel ASAP.  I highly recommend both the TurboTwist spinner and GGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Derek Melton


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So dmel75.... you have dug up a thread from before I joined here and that has brought this product to my attention. I will definitely be adding this to my CP.

The question is should I thank you for improving my cab or curse you for the time I now have to spend to juggle things around on my CP?  :P
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cmoses

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Considering the Mini Wheels myself.  I would appreciated anyone who has these posting some pictures of their control panel as well as some insight has to how they are working.

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hello, I say the measure in exact height of the twist turbo 2?
thanks