Should I make my arcade stick in the style of Mortal Kombat?

[Arcade82]

I could make an arcade stick for my 360 (and PC as well since it's USB) in the style of Mortal Kombat, with the exact same parts they used in those arcade machines...

or I could just make a generic one like with the 6 button Street Fighter layout (and an extra button to the bottom left)..

what do you think I should do?

If I made it Mortal Kombat style... would it be too awkward for all other games?

[Fozzy The Bear]

what do you think I should do?

Make it work for whatever you want to use it for..... It's no good asking us what to do with this one. You have to make your choice based on what is comfortable for you to use.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[leapinlew]

what do you think I should do?

Make it work for whatever you want to use it for..... It's no good asking us what to do with this one. You have to make your choice based on what is comfortable for you to use.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Thats solid advice! If you want to play 4 way vertical games that only use 1 button - build a machine to play vertical 4 way games. You'll be much happier!

[Arcade82]

cmon please no washout advice here..

I'm asking if it'll be awkward to place other games with it.

Is it a bad decision?

[fixedpigs]

yes...

you'd be using a non-standard layout to play a plethora of games with...

[NiteWalker]

The standard street fighter 6 button layout (with an added 7th button for neo geo games) is a good layout for a lot of different games. The MK layout is less so. I'd go with the SF layout.

[crashwg]

The standard street fighter 6 button layout (with an added 7th button for neo geo games) is a good layout for a lot of different games. The MK layout is less so. I'd go with the SF layout.

I second that.

[Glaine]

I'm not crazy for the MK layout either.

For anyone reading who doesn't know the difference, SF is 6 buttons, 3 on 2 rows like this:

() () ()
() () ()

While MK is like this (correct me if I'm wrong it's been a while):

()    ()
   ()
()    ()

Block is the middle button, the rest are punch and kick buttons.
It is actually a sort of neat idea, but I feel it doesn't work for very many games, where as 6 buttons on 2 rows works on most games, especially fighters.

If you also want to play neo-geo games, consider putting in another button on the SF layout, this has been talked to death and most people end up doing it. Like this:

   () () ()
   () () ()
() <- Extra button here so you have the 4 button neo-geo layout.

This setup is IMO the most flexible, the only downside is there are enough buttons that some guests will always ask what buttons they need to use for each game and the extra buttons get in the way of button masher games like track and field.

[Crax]

While MK is like this (correct me if I'm wrong it's been a while):

()    ()
   ()
()    ()

Yeah, that is the original MK layout without the run button.

[fixedpigs]

some guests will always ask what buttons they need to use for each game

that's what a led-wiz is for...-=)

as for buttons getting in the way...
it'd be neat if there was a way to make buttons that would be totally flat(kind of like the burners on the top of a flat stove...) with the control panel that would be touch sensitive...no extra buttons would get in the way then...

it'd be kind of like when you make up that first cp out of paper and cardboard and you try 'playing' different games by tapping the paper buttons...-=)

[somunny]

How about this layout?  Just shift the center row up halfway.


      ( )
( )         ( )
      ( )
( )         ( )

[kowal]

              ( -- )
      (HP)         (HK)
              (blk)
      (LP)          (LK)

   (run)

[NiteWalker]

That layout's decent, but not as ergonomic as those found on candy cabs (most of em anyway). The layout above looks like it assumes you're hands are at a straight angle when playing, which isn't the natural position. It's more of an arc. See the pic for what I mean.

[crashwg]

The layout above looks like it assumes you're hands are at a straight angle when playing, which isn't the natural position

Another good point.

My arms are usually at a 70-90° angle in relation to each other playing arcade games...

[fjl]

An early mock up of angled buttons. What do you think? 

[ahofle]

The left set of buttons is angled the wrong way (try holding your hand in that position for a while).  They should look the same as the player 2 set of buttons or you will be very uncomfortble.

[fixedpigs]

ow...!

loser plays left side...-=)

[fjl]

Well, I made it that way cause it should get the players to stand apart from each other like so...(not to scale)



Although this is my current layout...

Should I change it to have the angled buttons?

[fixedpigs]

i see...
but your sticks would need to be angled too then...

[leapinlew]

Well, I made it that way cause it should get the players to stand apart from each other like so...(not to scale)



Although this is my current layout...

Should I change it to have the angled buttons?

It's cool that your thinking about the angles of the players, but up needs to be up. Towards the monitor and not an odd angle.

[fjl]

So leave it the way it is or change it like this...



Thing is that I don't have much CP space but I am persistent to not have a CP that sticks out from the sides. It must all fit within the walls of the side panels like on my picture. I have to since some of the doors around my house won't allow anything bigger than 28" to go through.

So i MUST restrict myself to 28" minus the side panels means my CP will be 26.5" wide.

[NiteWalker]

I wouldn't sacrifice playability for aesthetics. If you need the control panel to be no wider than 28" because of being able to get through doors, why not build a separate control panel? There's no way playing on a control panel only 28" wide is going to be comfortable unless you and the other player weigh less than 80 pounds sopping wet. Angling the 1st player buttons downward like that places them in an unnatural position while playing.

[fjl]

Well I'm obviously going to do the cardboard controls setup and see how it feels. But I'll probably just stick to all buttons and controls being perpendicular to the screen. 

[NiteWalker]

That would probably be your best bet. You can get a little extra space out of the cp by moving the 1st player joystick and the second player buttons towards the outside a bit more also.

[fjl]

Well I'm trying to keep them away from the T'molding cause if you rest your hand on the t-molding it might end up being uncomfortable. Although, from my test tries, it seems that your arm never really rests on the panel, just the side of your palms. Of course I tried it on a table that wasn't really to scale, height wise. Do you find yourself resting any part of your arms on the CP or just your palms?

[NiteWalker]

Just my palms really. Maybe a bit on the left hand on the side as you mentioned, but only on the joystick side. I don't think it'll be a big issue.

[Arcade82]

I'm not crazy for the MK layout either.

For anyone reading who doesn't know the difference, SF is 6 buttons, 3 on 2 rows like this:

() () ()
() () ()

While MK is like this (correct me if I'm wrong it's been a while):

()    ()
   ()
()    ()

Block is the middle button, the rest are punch and kick buttons.
It is actually a sort of neat idea, but I feel it doesn't work for very many games, where as 6 buttons on 2 rows works on most games, especially fighters.

If you also want to play neo-geo games, consider putting in another button on the SF layout, this has been talked to death and most people end up doing it. Like this:

   () () ()
   () () ()
() <- Extra button here so you have the 4 button neo-geo layout.

This setup is IMO the most flexible, the only downside is there are enough buttons that some guests will always ask what buttons they need to use for each game and the extra buttons get in the way of button masher games like track and field.

You're right it is probably the best arcade setup. Definately what I'm going to do on my personal arcade machine.
This one I mean
   () () ()
   () () ()
() <- Extra button here so you have the 4 button neo-geo layout.


Probably not going to do any slant or stagger though.. does anyone have a slant or stagger?

[Arcade82]

Well, I made it that way cause it should get the players to stand apart from each other like so...(not to scale)



Although this is my current layout...

Should I change it to have the angled buttons?

Weird that you post this! This is probably what I'm going to go with as far as a CP on my arcade machine. Not sure about the trackball. How much can you get a decent trackball for nowdays?

[Arcade82]

Anyway, as far as an actual upright cabinet, I don't think there is any question that the standard 6 button street fighter layout with the NeoGeo button is the best layout

as far as my home/360 arcade stick, I'm surprised I didn't think of it before but I'll just make two top panels, one in each formation.

I just hope that removing it won't screw the solder joints up too much. Or maybe I should use quick disconnects huh?

[RayB]

I always thought the MK layout sucked even for MK! Only giants with big hands could use it effectively.

[NiteWalker]

The MK layout does suck....badly.

@Arcade82: There's a lot of ways around that problem. The simplest would be molex connectors. Wire them from your PCB to a male connector and run wires from the control panels to female molex connectors. When you want to change control panels, just disconnect the molexes and reattach the other panel.
Simple as pie, but not as tasty.  ....er.... ....

[Unholyknight]

The MK layout is definitely unique to the Mortal Kombat genre.  I would stick with the 6 or 8 button 2-row style layout for the broadest compatibility.

[Spaz Monkey]

Here's my $0.02.  Don't do MK setup unless you really, really, REALLY like it.  *I* would not have the players & buttons at an an angle and not include angleling the sticks.

[fjl]

Okay I drew them on a card board and tried both. Doesn't really feel good to play at an angle. But it also doesn't feel good to play the buttons perpendicular.

For now I've kind of settled on this button layout seeing as how the buttons will be so close to the joystick, the right hand will have to be at an angle towards the joystick. That makes less strain on the right arm and wrist. Comments? 

[fixedpigs]

now you're getting it...!
 

[NiteWalker]

Much better. That really looks good now. I'm sure whoever plays on it will have no complaints.

[fjl]

I was just going through the "show your control panel" thread and noticed that a lot of people have the button layout straight and close to their joystick. Perhaps even closer than my setup. And only a few that had it close to the joystick would angle the pattern. I wonder those who didn't angle it, get to play it without any problem. I'll perhaps also add a small curve to the button layout.

[NiteWalker]

FWIW My personal use stick has the straight 6 layout and I've had no issues with the angle at all. That particular layout was on street fighter machines for years and everyone adapted to it just fine. When I make my sticks the joystick is 4" from the left buttons on center. It's a great overall layout.

[fixedpigs]

FWIW My personal use stick has the straight 6 layout and I've had no issues with the angle at all. That particular layout was on street fighter machines for years and everyone adapted to it just fine. When I make my sticks the joystick is 4" from the left buttons on center. It's a great overall layout.

obviously not...!
look at how much your hands bleed by using it...

[NiteWalker]

obviously not...!
look at how much your hands bleed by using it...

 

I had only red buttons at the time in the convex style so I just pretty much picked the art blindfolded. It worked out ok. Next time I'll spend more time on the art than 10 min...

[fjl]

Well being on your lap you probably angle it for a better fit and don't even realize it. I think I just might try making a stand alone control panel before I even start my cabinet. Try out completely different stuff and see what feels best. It should also be  a good woodworking test try before i start the actual cabinet..

[rdowdy95]

Thanks for all the input guys.  Now on the two mouse buttons.  What if I don't play a lot of Golden Tee.  On my spins I always lift my hand on the end of the spin, but if friends come over they might bang into the buttons...I personally like them above the trackball like that.  Kind of like Atomic's Galaga CP.  There is some things with the shift button.  Some capcom games where you hold P1 start and a direction on the p1 stick lets you choose hidden characters.  One of the Marvel vs capcom games.

Also I am not much of a neogeo, if I was I would just use the capcom 6 button layout, and adapt to it. 

MK 3 would go like this:
HP, BK, HK
LP, RN, LK

[Crowquill]

Due to the nature of moving the trackball, you're bound to hit whatever is directly above it. Usually hitting the start buttons doesn't really do anything during gameplay, unless you have it set up that pressing them together will exit from the game. That can easily be remapped though. Why not make the mouse buttons work as standard action buttons? Through creative mapping in MAME, you can easily create a control panel that doesn't have lots of extra buttons.

As far as setting up the the button layout for MK, you could do the 7-button layout like this:

   HP BK HK
   LP BK LK
RN

It'd actually be closer to MK3's arcade layout that way.

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced you HAVE to angle the button layout. MK, the standard Capcom 6-button layout, and Neo-Geo cabs used a straight horizontal layout. For really long play-sessions, a slight angle might help a little bit, but by no means is it necessary.

[fjl]

Well my buttons are angled simply because they are too close to the joystick. Otherwise I would have made it exactly straight like the original Street Fighter layout.

[johnperkins21]

I'm not sure why everyone is convinced you HAVE to angle the button layout. MK, the standard Capcom 6-button layout, and Neo-Geo cabs used a straight horizontal layout. For really long play-sessions, a slight angle might help a little bit, but by no means is it necessary.

Neo-Geo had a slight arc to the 3 finger buttons, and the thumb button made it look a lot more angled than it actually was. But I agree with you, straight rows seem to be fine. I plan to build a test panel both ways and pick one that I feel most comfortable with, which is what I would recommend to anyone before getting too locked into one design.