Ram Controls?

[Daviea]

Heads up.

The optical devices (used on the 720 dual optical coupler board) arrived this morning via FedEx Priority Sat. Delivery.  I grabbed up enough to supply the 720 project for many years.  I've done some initial testing and determined that the parts conform with regard to form and fit.  I'm going to spot check the parts on Monday in my test rig to ensure that they function as expected.  I've already sent the PCB's off to fab, so they'll be in my hands in a week or two.  I figure that if all goes as planned, I'll be able to make the optical boards individually available before the remainder of the controller.  So, if you've been looking for a replacement dual optical coupler board for 720, the wait is almost over.

FYI, I know it's not exactly controller related, but I'm also working on the Tempest to Major Havoc conversion boards and the Space Duel, Gravitar, Blackwidow to Major Havoc conversion boards.  I've got 99% of the parts in and the boards are off to fab as well.  The only piece I'm having trouble with sourcing is the VDR/Varistor used on nearly all of the Atari color XY boards.  This might hold things up a bit, but I'll find a solution eventually. If anyone has any insight into this part, I'm listening.

That's about it for right now.

David

[Xiaou2]

I think the biggest problem with Vector machines is the Vector monitors themselves.

 Either the monitor damaged, burned in, or missing..  or the monitor boards
themselves are toasted.  (afaik)

 Would be great to have real vector monitors available for use in mame..  however,
I imagine the cost may be quite high to reproduce such a thing.  Also,
there is no support in the official build for vector monitors.

 Another idea, is a Laser projector.. as thats about the closest to a
true vector image... however, that may cost even more.  There is
a new 3 color laser projector comming in 2008..  but because its
made to  display typical  images... it may lack the overall power
and look of a typical laser beam used in lightshows.

 

[Havok]

David,

Is there any updated timeframe as to completion of the Star Wars yoke?

[pointdablame]

You've got me extremely excited about the prospect of having a new supply of Wico leafswitches.  I have a few leafswitches in good condition if you need to see one, but I wouldn't say they were NOS.

I'd love the chance to replace all my leafswitches though, as most are quite bent and messy from when I got them.

[ahofle]

Don't current pinball machines still have leafswitches for the flipper buttons?  Just wondering because that would imply they are still being made by someone.

[pointdablame]

Wico leafs are specific to Wico joys.  You can find generic leafswitch replacements but they won't fit correctly on the underside of the joystick base.

[ahofle]

Ahhh bummer.

[Daviea]

Hey everyone,

Here's the latest update to keep you in the loop.

Star Wars yoke. I took receipt of the sample handle castings.  They look GOOD.  Slightly off, but good.  I made some slight changes and I'm having a second set of first articles produced, so I'm just waiting on them.  I received the gears and they're spot-on and look perfect.  The wire is in production now, I should have it by the end of next week, possibly the middle of the following week.  Everything is progressing nicely.  I hope to have the yoke completed and released by the end of Feb. but I cannot commit to an exact release date yet as I'm waiting on the outside vendors to produce the handles and wire.

720 controller.  I have parts reproduced for most of the controller with the exception of the handle shaft, pivot ball, lower mechanical half and the dual opto board.  I received a NOS pivot ball to work from (Thanks Kremmit) and I'm expecting a complete controller and some spare parts sometime soon (Thanks usedelectronics).  I've already drawn up the pivot ball and expect to put it into production next week.  I should have samples, possibly the entire production run, ready by end of next week.  I've upped my production count to 1000pcs on the pivot ball since I'm going to need it for several other controllers I'm reproducing.  The handle shaft is an interesting topic.  I was very focused on having the knob cast right onto the shaft, using a polished up phenolic-like material.  I realized I could make the knob from aluminum and hard anodize it (in black) and screw it right onto the shaft.  I think it would look MUCH better, though obviously not "exact" when compared to the original.

Lunar Lander thruster.  I've got most of this controller done.  The only part I'm waiting on is the plastic thrust controller cover.  This is a vacuum formed part and since my vacuum form machine is down, I'm relying on an outside vendor for help.  Naturally, they're backlogged on jobs, soooo.... I'm waiting.

Hall Effect Joystick.  This project is coming along nicely.  I'm considering options on the handle knob (just like the 720 controller) and the hall effect sensor.  It's proving to be a challenge.  The mechanical components of the controller itself isn't an issue.

Analog joystick.  This project is pretty much in the same boat with the hall effect joystick, however I could use a few NOS parts which would help push along this project.

Tempest Spinner.  I recently added this project to the lineup.  I'm tired of the BrrrRRrrrRRRRrrrr sound that my OEM part makes everytime I spin it (yeah, I even have the new bearing/bushings installed!).  So, I'm making a spinner unit that fits the same footprint, but also incorporates real bearings which will provide a nice smooth spin once and for all.

Assault joystick.  My Assault game has been on the fritz for the last couple of years and it's due to failing controllers.  I went out looking for some replacements and realized that they are near impossible to locate.  Time to repro!  This will be an easy repro given the other projects I've got going on as some parts will swap between the different controllers.

Hard Drivin' shifter.  I've looked over an original shifter and I'm confident I can reproduce this.  As an added bonus, I believe I can also offer a 6+R shift plate and 6+R knob for the MAME users.  This project is on the backburner while I work on the above projects, but I have to admit that I'm somewhat anxious to work on this one.  There are some aspects of this project that interest me quite a bit.

Ok, I think that's about it for now.  If anyone has comments or suggestions, I'm listening.

Thanks

David

[usedelectronics]

Update:
I found a couple NOS wico's and packed them in with the 720 controller. I also included  a bunch of extra 720 controller parts.

Question, since you have the required "skill" have you considered reproducing the tron joystick bases? (Handles are being done by others already.)

[jerryjanis]

I am really excited to hear that you are working on a 720 joystick!  In case it's of any use, I have some pictures on my website that may (or may not) be useful for you.  The last two pictures are pages from the game's manual that someone sent me:

http://www.jstookey.com/arcade/720/720-pictures.php
http://www.jstookey.com/arcade/720/720man_controller_a.jpg
http://www.jstookey.com/arcade/720/720man_controller_b.jpg

An interesting thing about the pictures from the manual is that some of the parts on the original joystick that I own are slightly different from the ones in the manual.  For example, the shaft on my joystick is solid - mine doesn't have the lathed section in the middle.  My best guess is that maybe some of the joysticks broke, and they redesigned that part on newer revisions.

[Daviea]

I've considered the Tron joystick, but I thought someone else was working on it, though I could be mistaken.  The last time I looked into this, I was having one heck of a time locating a decent handle to work from.  I can make the molds for the handles if I had a NOS version to work with.  But then I heard that someone else had made the handles and I could have sworn I heard that someone (possibly the same person) was going to make whole repro controllers.  Who's doing the handles?  Is it specialty plastics? 

If the handles are really being made AND I can work out a decent price on a rather large order (200-300pcs) AND nobody is already making the base of the joystick, I think I can get involved in this one.  I'd rather incorporate already made parts into any design I work on, provided that said parts are of excellent quality/workmanship and I can get them for a price near (or UNDER) what it would cost me to do them myself.  I'll gladly reopen this project if nobody else is already working on it and I have options for the handles.

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that Fozzy was working on the handles... did he ever make the base for the joystick?

David

[Kremmit]

Who's doing the handles?  Is it specialty plastics? 
....

Now that I think about it, I seem to recall that Fozzy was working on the handles... did he ever make the base for the joystick?

Tom from Specialty Plastics has dissapeared again.  Last anybody heard from him, his handle mold was shot and he couldn't find a good enough handle to cast from.  Fozzy was working on casting handles only, but it's a spare-time project for him, and he's short on spare time.

[Daviea]

Was there anyone else working on the Tron handles?  If they're not easily available right now, that puts this project idea in a bit of a pickle. 

On the one hand, I can easily do the handles myself if I had a NOS part (or very close to NOS part) to work with.  But I might be stepping on the toes of people(?) who already have time/money invested into a spare-time project.  I'd hate to do that to anyone.  I know how it feels because I drop bank into my projects, so I worry about others bringing a similar product to market before I'm finished. 

On the other hand, if I knew for a fact that whomever is working on the handles has already dropped the project, I could begin without worry of walking over anyone.  So, Tom's out.  Fozzy....is in, but no announced time table.

I guess I could look into making the base without the handle in the meantime, but I specifically recall 1UP (I think that's who it was) stating that the base units were being worked on?  Again, if this is the case, I don't want to step on any toes. 

I have a habit of going way over the top when I work on projects.  The cone wars was a good case in point.  I produced a whopping 5000pcs each of the short black, short silver and tall black cones and began selling them off to my vendors (of which "Arts Arcade Games" was one) and little did I know that an alternate manufacturer (AtariSwitch) was quietly working on the same thing (however, only the tall cones).  I believe he only made a couple hundred parts.  Anyhow, seeing as I made so fricken many cones and it was done using my own equipment, I was able to offer a price which allowed Art to conduct some stiff competition.  Why'd I make so many cones?  Because I could and gosh darnit, I *hate* running out of parts.  Yeah, over the top.    Same will go for just about anything I make.  There'll never be a shortage of anything once I get involved.  I just don't want to trample over anyone while I'm doing it.

So, I need to know where the Tron handles and Tron bases really are before I commit to this one.  I'd LOVE to work on it because it seems like an excellent challenge, but I need some peace of mind beforehand.

David

[Fozzy The Bear]

On the other hand, if I knew for a fact that whomever is working on the handles has already dropped the project, I could begin without worry of walking over anyone.  So, Tom's out.  Fozzy....is in, but no announced time table.

Hi David....... Yes I'm still working on handles..... You're also correct that there's no announced timetable. As for supplying 300 of them, sorry! Not my thing at all. I'm not mass producing them If I do 100 in total that's probably all it will be.

You wouldn't be treading on my toes at all by producing complete units. As long as you understand that as soon as I can, I will be selling handles only, to members who want them. I have to recoup my development costs, regardless of any other production that might be going. So you'd have to be prepared for the fact that I might end up treading on your toes in that respect.

Other than that, I've no problem with it at all mate!  You feel free to go ahead. I wouldn't be looking at production runs of the size that you do them in any case.

The only thing that confuses me with what you do David is the sheer number of projects you already have in development. From a commercial point of view, you seem to have a lot of projects that are incomplete right now. Excepting Atari Cones that is......   Doesn't make a lot of commercial financial sense to me.  I would have thought you would want to get product to market and concentrate on doing that with one thing at a time, so that you actually have a stable grounding.

The only reason I mention the above is that my concern would be that you turn into another vendor that vanishes overnight, because your cashflow on these products could well end up very much in the red.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Daviea]

Hey Fozzy.  Thanks for the quick follow-up.  I understand where you're at in this.  Once your production run starts, can you give me a heads up?  We should talk at that point in time just for good measure.

OK, I'm going to put some serious consideration into the Tron controller project.  Now, does anyone know if anyone else (1UP??) is working on the controller base?  If not, that should pretty much be a GO as far as I'm concerned.

I'll need a NOS Tron handle before I can start.  Anyone?  I'll need it for about.. oh, let's call it 6 weeks.  That should give me ample time to get some dimensional drawings done.  With that, I can make some molds, compare to the originals and then send the job off to fab.  I'll have to do some in-depth research to get the color and material properties matched up, but it shouldn't be too time consuming.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken, the original material used for the Tron handles was somewhat brittle or prone to breaking.  I'll have to see about correcting that flaw.

Sounds like fun to me.  I love this stuff.

David

[Fozzy The Bear]

Hey Fozzy.  Thanks for the quick follow-up.  I understand where you're at in this.  Once your production run starts, can you give me a heads up?  We should talk at that point in time just for good measure.

No Problem.... I'll drop you a line when I get to that stage.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Kremmit]

Heh.  I got some of your cones (via Art) as well as some of the Atariswitch ones "back during the war".     Both parts are very, very nice, btw.

I don't believe 1UP was making acutal repro Tron bases- I think he was working on a new base that would mimic the Tron restriction but fit in a standard Happ mounting template.  I could be off on this, though.  In any event, he hasn't been seen around these parts much in the last year or so.

[Havok]

I hope to have the yoke completed and released by the end of Feb. but I cannot commit to an exact release date yet as I'm waiting on the outside vendors to produce the handles and wire.

Great news! Looks like this is going to make a perfect birthday present for me, hopefully you can deliver on your projected availability. One question: I assume this is going to be an exact reproduction, so us Mame folks will have to supply our own pc interface (sidewinder hack/aki, etc)? Or, are there also plans to include an optional pc interface?

[Xiaou2]

 David,

  As far as I recall, 1up was trying to make modified bases that were less
bulky..  of course,  this would have caused them to be less durrable.
It coudl have also been some sort of restrictor for place over typical
8ways.  Again, not a very durrable solution.

  One special thing about the Tron sticks were the specialized
restrictors.   Making a 4 way restrictor but out of some sort of
rubber.  This then allowed 8way movment if you pressed hard
enough.   Quite ingenious   ... and the only way to play the
lightcycle section of the tron game.

 Someone was considering making the restrictors only, so that
they could be transplanted onto the other non-tron 8way
joysticks.   However, it never got completed.  Also, the materials
were not correct.  And finally, I dont think anyone makes the
leafs for them either. 

 Another great Repro would be the 4  way Pacman joys.  As most
are completely devestated by now.  Many people are
replacing them with joys that really are not very good
feeling nor controlling.   They actually have a very simular base
to the tron sticks.

[u_rebelscum]

An interesting thing about the pictures from the manual is that some of the parts on the original joystick that I own are slightly different from the ones in the manual.  For example, the shaft on my joystick is solid - mine doesn't have the lathed section in the middle.  My best guess is that maybe some of the joysticks broke, and they redesigned that part on newer revisions.

Thanks for the reminder!  Atari has done that to other controls, too.  Not counting minor sensor board changes that you could switch without regard to what version, I know of two others.  The sprint steering wheels had a pretty major revision (from plastic to alum & loose the 4" bolt for two, one on each end that the aluminum allowed).  The hall effect boards had at least three revisions that effected how it was calibrated: from hardware POT adjustments, to all software calibration in game, to automatic calibration at power up (& possibly more that didn't change the calibration).

All three of these controller changes (720, sprint, hall effect) were for the better.  So make sure you're repro-ing the best revision.

[tommyinajar]

If no one is going to make a base or some kind of restrictor for it, How about an UltraStik  with an easy 4-way / difficult diagaonal mapping and a repo tron handle ??

 I KNOW if someone cast a sturdy Tron handle they would sell, probably too good unless mass produced

[Daviea]

Hey Everyone,

Here's an overdue update on everything.

The Star Wars yoke is almost ready.  I'm waiting on the handles and the wire.  I'm running my third set of prototype handle castings right now.  Just can't seem to get the outside radius on the shaft connection correct and I think it's a function of the actual casting process as my CAD drawings are *perfect*.  Wire should be done this coming week.  Initially, I'm going to provide the yoke WITHOUT artwork applied.  The artwork is taking far too long to get done, so I probably won't be able to offer the option immediately.  Oh well, I figure since the artwork is available from other sources, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

720 controller.  All this one is waiting on is the upper/lower housing components and the handle shaft.  I decided to cast these from Delrin as opposed to machine from Delrin.  Silly question, but can anyone tell me with 100% certainty what color the ball top is supposed to be on the 720 controller?  Although the majority of the units I have seen are black in color, I have also seen a good number of red and yellow ball tops. Weird.

Lunar Lander thruster.  Still waiting on the controller cover.  My backup vendor is still backlogged.....yawn.

Hall Effect joystick.  Waiting on upper/lower housing components and handle shaft.  I've already manufactured the remainder of the components, including the X-Y sliders and the Hall Effect circuit boards.  The magnets were a chore to source, but I was able to find an exact replacement from a local vendor.

Assault - upper and lower housing, shaft and handle grips.

Tempest spinner.  I've got my proof of concept prototype spinner done and it works great.  Now I need to make changes to the design to trim manf. cost down a little bit and streamline the construction.  I'm considering options for a new opto board, too.  I'm tired of paying Happ their inflated prices for their version of the opto board (currently, the RED opto's).  Besides, their opto doesn't even fit on the spinner due to all of the surface mount parts getting in the way.

Ok, that's it for the updates... now onto addressing some of the recent messages in the thread.

Kremmit - thanks for the comments on the cones.  I think they look pretty nice, too.  I almost went with a powder coat to simulate the texture of the original plastic cones, but the anodized cones just looked too nice to pass up.  I'm glad to know that nobody is working on the tron joystick base.  That leaves it wide open for me to consider.  Right now, I've got so many projects going on, I've decided to keep my focus on them until I complete a few, then I'll toss new projects in the mix.  That shouldn't be too much longer, though.

Havok - I wasn't planning on offering a PC interface with any of my controllers.  While I have an extensive background in EE and CS, my one desire is to recreate the controls/parts as accurately as possible.  However, if anyone would like to partner up with me to make this a viable possibility, let's talk.  I would be pleased to go above and beyond my initial goal, but I'll need some help.

Xiaou2 - I'd like to see one of these Tron restrictor plates up close.  From your description, I don't see any reason why I couldn't make this part.  As for the Pac Man joysticks, isn't someone else working on those? 

u_rebetscum - I'm aware of the various revisions of different controllers that Atari made.  I usually go with the latest revision when planning out my designs.  The hall effect joystick was an easy choice as the last revision was obviously the best, hands down.  BTW, I already have the hall effect circuit boards completed.  They turned out quite nice.

tommyinajar - I've already started the process of making the Tron handle (but I have no details on official release notes yet).  What I really need is a NOS controller handle to measure up and determine the material characteristics (color, fluoresce, thickness, etc).  I have an all-black handle which is *very* used, but it's proving to be somewhat useful at least for initial cost analysis (volume of material use, etc).  It looks like I'll be able to run these off in a full injection mold production run and offer a pretty decent target price.  I intend to upgrade the material thickness if possible to help strengthen the handle and keep it from breaking so easily.

Here's what I'm currently looking for: 720 machine, NOS (or near perfect) TRON handle and joystick base.

David

[PoDunkMoFo]

If you are going to run these you might consider offering them in Satans Hollow red as well.

[Kaytrim]

Havok - I wasn't planning on offering a PC interface with any of my controllers.  While I have an extensive background in EE and CS, my one desire is to recreate the controls/parts as accurately as possible.  However, if anyone would like to partner up with me to make this a viable possibility, let's talk.  I would be pleased to go above and beyond my initial goal, but I'll need some help.

David,

You might want to check with Randy from Groovy Game Gear and Andy form Ultimark.  They have the knowledge and experience creating PC interfaces.  Randy has created interfaces for Keyboard, Mouse and Gamepad style input devices and interfacing the 49-way joysticks to PC.  Andy has created Keyboard and mouse style interfaces and what I believe is a Hall joystick (U360) with interface to the PC.

I may not use any of the things that you are working on unless I get into the restoration side of the hobby.  However I am very interested in what you are doing because I am learning from you about the various devices used to create the games I loved to play as a kid.

Keep up the good work, 
Kaytrim

[freckleface]

Restoration project or not an afforadable Star Wars yoke would be worth hacking.  Though for those not PC would be nice.

[ArcadeMaze]

X

[Daviea]

Hey Everyone,

Since the project is getting so close to completion that I can taste it, I've put the Star Wars controller up for pre-sale as of today.  I've also made available a selection of parts for the SW yoke as well.  I'm not finished fleshing out the order page just yet, but you can get an idea of what's going to be available by looking at the page as-is.  I've decided to do the pre-sale because the project is almost done.  Also, after going through three versions of the handles, I realize my original estimate is going to be surpassed by a good chunk of change and I want to keep my promise to everyone here when I stated the price would be $200.  So, I'm offering to anyone who wants to jump in early, a cost that's equal to my original estimate (ie: about $25-$35 cheaper than I'll offer it once the production unit is actually ready).  Right now is your chance to get the controller for a great price.  Granted, I'm about 30-60 days from completion, but it's a done deal, more or less.  Just waiting on the the powder coating of the frame assemblies and the last version of the handle prototypes to get finished up.  Check out the order page:

http://www.ram-controls.com/order-sw.html

On a side note, anyone see what that NOS yoke controller went for on ebay?  $355.25!  Wow! 

Cover, handle assembly frame and steering assembly frame are all out getting powder coated, so they'll be available shortly.  Ok, more to come shortly.  Also, expect to see some 720 controller parts show up on the site in the near future.

For those curious to get some more insight into the SW project, here's a link:

http://www.ram-controls.com/blog-sw.html

If you notice any discrepancies, please bring it to my attention.

Thanks

David

[ahofle]

Man that is absolutely impressive.  Nice work!   

[Havok]

Woohoo!!!

Payday is coming up, and you're getting my pre-order!!!

 

[Breaker]

Hi David,

Are these units available for shipment to Canada?

Thanks,
Breaker.

[Daviea]

Shipment to Canada (as well as the rest of the world) is available on this pre-order item.  Further, the standard $15 shipping fee applies no matter where you're located (ie: I'll eat the difference in cost).  Domestic shipments will be via UPS Blue (2-day) and foreign shipments will be via USPS (post office) Express EMS service (it has limited tracking capabilities).

Thanks

David

[horseboy]

Didn't GameCab do preorders? 

[Havok]

Didn't GameCab do preorders? 

We'll see - I'll be pre-ordering one tomorrow. I can be the guinea pig. I figure it'll be a credit card order, so there is always the dispute path if it turns out to be a scam. I don't think so though, others have his cones and Major Havoc controls, so I think it's legit...

 

[Havok]

Took the plunge - I pre-ordered today. I'll keep everyone posted.

Hey David, what kind of documentation can I expect to get with this? I would love to see an exploded view diagram, and also pinouts of the connector...

Also, as a bonus for the early order, can you throw in a female plug (or male? whichever applies) to the output plug for me? I will be hacking a dual strike to interface this with my pc, and would like to make it a nice neat hack so that I can just plug in the DS to the yoke connector...

[MameMaster!]

WOW BIG NEWS!

I just posted this on Retroblast.com

Hey...I recommend teaming up with Mamemarquees for repro yoke stickers for sale as well!

(FYI- I ordered one too...and agree with Havok if you can toss that in!).

 

[2600]

Great assortment of parts for repairs, but do you plan on putting the gears up for sale as well?


Also, if parts are purchased will they ship out now or wait till after the yoke is completed?

[Daviea]

Havok,  I'll toss in a freebie male connector (with pins) for anyone here who asks.  Anything to help create a solid interface (and curb hacking up my controllers.)  I'm attempting to create an exploded view.  Since I have Atari's original, it won't be too difficult.  I'll include pinouts.

MameMaster, you got it.  Thanks for the post on Retroblast.

2600, the gears will be up soon.  I have received my first batch of gears.  They're coming to me in a scheduled manner (ie: a few here, a few there).  I have JUST enough from the first run to cover the repro units.  As soon as the second run comes in, they'll be available on the website.  Any individual components listed and available for order on the website right now will be shipped out right away if you place an order.

As an update for the yoke, it looks like the last prototype of the handles turned out as expected, so I'm going to give it a thumbs up for a production run today.

David

[Havok]

Cool!

So, do you have a better idea of expected shipment time yet?

[Daviea]

The dates have not firmed up any further than before.  However, If I had to guess, I would put it all the way to the beginning of April.  I based this on the fact that a full production run at the casting company could take awhile.  I'm hoping for sooner rather than later, though.

On a side note, does anyone have a 720 controller within reach?  I need the values of R1 through R6 and C1.  I'm slapping together the first production units of the 720 Dual Opto boards today, but I forgot to bring the BOM (bill of materials) with me. Whoops.  OC1, OC2, IC1 and C2 are easy, but the resistor values as well as the value of C1 elude me.

Thanks

David

[freckleface]

Male pin connector....what kind is that? And I remember you having a listing on the parts page for 100k resistors for those who had MAME cabs; what happened to that?