Xbox mod

[lloydcom]

Isn't this all kinda illegal?

I'm surprised that Saint allows this type of discussion on this subject.  I mean its not arcade cabinet related is  it? 

Granted its a console message board but to discuss modifying a Xbox could land you some jail time if caught with the goods.  Since this topic is served on other sites, should this really be here?

This is not a good direction to teach the children of today, is it?

Come on guys keep it clean!

[Silver]

I believe (but maybe someone can correct) that all this is completely legal.

I am aware that modchips are used by people to play games illegally, but the actual chips themselves are legal to buy/sell/install. You simply void your warranty by opening the box.

I have no interest in playing xbox games - I'm doing this to build a (very) cheap media centre that does not look like PC that can play my music, stream my videos etc etc... I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking any laws by doing this.

If this is illegal, then I agree we probably not discuss it on these boards.

[lloydcom]

I think you will find fitting such a device is illegal.   

[SNAAKE]

I hate forum policias

[ChadTower]

The chips themselves are entirely legal because they do not contain a hacked bios.  Not until you put it on there yourself post install.  You are entitled to hack up a device you own until the cows come home, it's not legally circumvention of technology until you have loaded the altered software.  That's why it is legal to sell modchips... no bios on them.  You have to get one somewhere else and put it on yourself.  On boot, until I flash a new BIOS  onto the modchip, it behaves as a simple passthru and boots to the default Xbox BIOS that existed before I installed the mod.  That is how my Xbox is right now.

Shmokes, thanks, that may actually be the case.  I'll take a look in the next day or two.  I remember all of the solder points I did but don't recall a throughhole point right there.  This is one of those times I REALLY wish I had a tiny point tip... the smallest one I have is a little too big to be elegant with these tiny points.  I'm used to larger ones from component legs.

[lloydcom]

Fine, prove your point by emailing Microsoft with your intentions to modify a Xbox. 

Here is the address: piracy@microsoft.com

I'm sure they will be happy to assist you in your endeavours.  Make sure you put your residential address and telephone number where you can be reached (arrested). 

You might want to courtesy copy in the DMCA while you are at it.  Something your lawyer will have a laugh with you when he meets you at lockup.

Please post in the forum their responses from Microsoft and the DMCA.

If it is legal and they have no objections modifying an xbox I will apologise to all duly and sincerely.

[Silver]

A bit of research indicates it actually depends on which country you are in.

Indeed it appears that in recent times in the UK, modchips have been 'classed' as illegal devices - but perfectly legal in austrailia, for example. No idea about the US.

However, it also appears its not that simple - all legal cases that have been brought have always included either:

1) Distribution of pirated games
2) Distribution of chips which contain a modified Xbox bios. (ie modified MS code).

No legal cases have been brought (in the UK anyway) against modchip sellers and resellers who include non-infiringing bios, such as linux code - as for example the chip I bought does. There is not much illegal about selling a eeprom chip on a PCB which contains freely available linux bootcode to boot a PC. (We do that all the time at work, in large quantities).

The big case in the states against a company called Pandoras box where the guy went down was because he was selling xboxs with harddrives full of copied games. Woops.

[lloydcom]

A bit of research indicates it actually depends on which country you are in.

Indeed it appears that in recent times in the UK, modchips have been 'classed' as illegal devices - but perfectly legal in austrailia, for example. No idea about the US.

However, it also appears its not that simple - all legal cases that have been brought have always included either:

1) Distribution of pirated games
2) Distribution of chips which contain a modified Xbox bios. (ie modified MS code).

No legal cases have been brought (in the UK anyway) against modchip sellers and resellers who include non-infiringing bios, such as linux code - as for example the chip I bought does. There is not much illegal about selling a eeprom chip on a PCB which contains freely available linux bootcode to boot a PC. (We do that all the time at work, in large quantities).

The big case in the states against a company called Pandoras box where the guy went down was because he was selling xboxs with harddrives full of copied games. Woops.

Funny you should bring that up as there was a guy selling xboxes in Cambridge, UK getting nicked for just that.

If you are going to do something dodgy then its up to you as you are responsible for what you do in life.  You get caught you pay the piper.

Just please don't promote it here.  Its not right and against the rules:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=10849.msg82702#msg82702   

[ChadTower]

So you are anti-homebrew for consoles?

[Silver]

"No linking to mod-chips, binaries of illegal emus (ie X-Box emus made with the hacked MS SDK), or talk about backups/pirating games. This rule is for our (BYOAC's) protection."

As far as I can see, no one has linked to modchips, nor any binaries. And the discussion has been about media centers...

Anyway, if this is causing contention maybe a mod can make a call about the thread.

[Silver]

Funny you should bring that up as there was a guy selling xboxes in Cambridge, UK getting nicked for just that.

"The Cambridge student, whose name hasn't been released to the press, operated a business where he chipped the systems, installed roomy 200 GB, and then loaded them with 80 games. That seems to be what made him such a target, merely chipping a system is one thing,  selling pirated games preinstalled is something most law enforcement agencies don't have a sense of humor about. "

Yep, the problem comes from sticking 80 illegally copied games on the system and selling it for a profit. You fall foul of all sorts of laws doing that.

[pointdablame]

Isn't this all kinda illegal?

I'm surprised that Saint allows this type of discussion on this subject.  I mean its not arcade cabinet related is  it? 

Granted its a console message board but to discuss modifying a Xbox could land you some jail time if caught with the goods.  Since this topic is served on other sites, should this really be here?

This is not a good direction to teach the children of today, is it?

Come on guys keep it clean!

what's up with all the holier-than-thou attitude lately?  No devhook for PSP, can't mod an Xbox.   You realize you are on a site where we build arcade controls to play games... and we may or may not legally be able to do so.

MAME is a door to illegal activity just like a modchip or devhook CAN be... but there are legit reasons to use them.

And I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but it is NOT illegal to mod your Xbox.  Using MS's bios is, and playing stolen games obviously is.  But you can modify your system in any way you see fit.  The modchip itself does not circumvent protection until a bios is installed, and the DMCA is not relevant in this case.

SELLING modded system is also a totally different story.  Chad is modding his box to serve mostly as a media center.  There is nothing illegal about that except the bios.  And MS isn't really going to care if he does it unless he starts pirating 100 games that he would have bought otherwise.

Stop the preachy attitude.  If you don't like what's being discussed, stay out of it, or talk to the mods.  They'll decide if its ok or not.   

[ChadTower]

I believe I did link to a modchip, actually, so that was my bad.

I'm sure the mods are aware of this thread.  Given how openly pro-IP rights I have always been, which isn't an easy stance to take on a MAME heavy message board, I may have some credibility here when it comes to console mod discussions.

Homebrew legalities vary by their own nature.  I am not sure if XBMC is compiled using MS' signature.  If it is, then technically it is illegal, but since you have to install a modchip to run XBMC, and the modchip is to allow unsigned code, I assume XBMC is neither using MS' signature nor is illegal.

I believe that technically, the altered BIOS that will need to be loaded is signed and thus not a proper topic for here.  No one has really talked about the BIOS in this thread.


FWIW, this is Wikipedia's entry on the subject:

USA legality under DMCA

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) cites that circumvention devices, including, but not limited to mod-chips, are illegal, because the device circumvents the copy-protection features of their host systems.

[pointdablame]

I believe I did link to a modchip, actually, so that was my bad.

I'm sure the mods are aware of this thread. 

even so, the legality of modchips is at questionable, so there's no definite reason to get all high and  mighty like that.  I'm betting your modchip came with no bios or cromwell, which is NOT illegal.  So you bought a PCB with a legal bios.. end of story.

[ChadTower]

It came with FlashBIOS, which I believe is the BIOS that allows you to boot with HTTP/FTP/DVD enabled so that you can then put whatever other BIOS you want on there.  I haven't gotten it to load up FlashBIOS yet, though, as I suspect I missed that solder point shmokes suggested.

[pointdablame]

It came with FlashBIOS, which I believe is the BIOS that allows you to boot with HTTP/FTP/DVD enabled so that you can then put whatever other BIOS you want on there.  I haven't gotten it to load up FlashBIOS yet, though, as I suspect I missed that solder point shmokes suggested.

FlashBios is not illegal either AFAIK.

I haven't used a rebuild board myself since I've never modded a 1.6, but Shmokes idea seems solid.  I'd certainly check it.  Be careful checking the D0 point as well. Many people give the usual tug test and rip the trace right up.  You seem to have gotten the D0 down fine, but just a note.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I know better than the usual tug test.  Made that mistake on a pinball driver board last year.  Never again. 

If I had to do this rebuild over again I'd have done it without the 1.6 rebuild PCB.  It didn't fit quite right and I had to tape it down bent a little bit to get it to hit all of the proper points.  It made for less thought, certainly, since there is less chance of soldering to the wrong point, but you can't see if you made a mistake either.

[JackTucky]

If I had to do this rebuild over again I'd have done it without the 1.6 rebuild PCB. 

I got some advice to do mine without the board.  That's the way I went.

Jacktucky

[JoyMonkey]

Homebrew legalities vary by their own nature.  I am not sure if XBMC is compiled using MS' signature.  If it is, then technically it is illegal, but since you have to install a modchip to run XBMC, and the modchip is to allow unsigned code, I assume XBMC is neither using MS' signature nor is illegal.

XBMC has to be compiled using Microsofts XDK, which is illegal to do without Microsofts license. But there it gets a little grey; it's illegal to compile it, it's illegal to distribute it, but as far as I can tell there is nothing unlawful about running the compiled code.

Microsoft must kick themselves for not creating something as awesome as XBMC themselves, but if they wanted the project to be shut down I'm sure they could find a way to do it in a heart beat. At one point they did request that the Xbox 360 logo be removed from the MC360 skin, but to my knowledge have never tried to stop the project or threaten any of its programmers with legal action.

[ChadTower]

I believe they were waiting on the 360 to release that sort of functionality... probably figured they couldn't do it in the Xbox's default resources. 

[pointdablame]

I believe they were waiting on the 360 to release that sort of functionality... probably figured they couldn't do it in the Xbox's default resources. 

which seems funny now when you load up XBMC and see just how fleshed out it is.  It's an amazing program.. so much so that I haven't even thought of trying the media functions of my 360 yet.

[ChadTower]

Independent coders are more aggressive about filling requirements within limited resources than coroporate coders are.  Corporate coders (such as myself) will fill the requirements but unless resource limits are within those requirements, and they rarely are, the goal is to satisfy functionality and appearance with only some regard to performance.  Microsoft is one of the worst on the planet for that, too, with how they are constantly using 50x more CPU/RAM/space to do things that open source coders are doing better on older boxes.

Sadly, with MS' model and the way this industry works, it actually makes sense that MS couldn't do what the open source community did.

[pointdablame]

Sadly, with MS' model and the way this industry works, it actually makes sense that MS couldn't do what the open source community did.

Very true.  Regardless of how it happened though, I'm glad it did.  XBMC is a really wonderful piece of software.

[shmokes]

The XBMC team approached MS with their product a while back and MS turned it down.  Wouldn't give them a license.  Seems pretty crazy because it's such a solid product and the PS2 and Gamecube couldn't touch it.  And since it's small enough to fit on the hard drive MS could have given people the option of having it replace the stock dashboard so you wouldn't even need a disc in (of course it would lose the ability to play pirated games).

I suppose they didn't want such a fantastic product competing with their lame Media Center Extender that isn't nearly as functional and will only work with a Media Center version of Windows.

Anyway, you could email MS with your intentions all you want.  Modding Xboxes is 100% legal.  You can even run Linux on it if you really wanted to have a media center with no legal questions (as mentioned, compiling XBMC requires the unlicensed use of Microsoft's XDK).  In fact, Microsoft has the name/address/credit card information of hundreds of people whose accounts they have banned on Live for trying to play with a pirated game, or using a mod to allow them to cheat. 

[slycrel]

Isn't this all kinda illegal?

I'm surprised that Saint allows this type of discussion on this subject.  I mean its not arcade cabinet related is  it? 

Granted its a console message board but to discuss modifying a Xbox could land you some jail time if caught with the goods.  Since this topic is served on other sites, should this really be here?

This is not a good direction to teach the children of today, is it?

Come on guys keep it clean!

I think I can understand where you're coming from.  I think.

FWIW, my modded xbox is in my arcade cabinet.  Others have them there as well -- that's definitely an alternative if you want to go that route.

This whole teach the children thing..  it scares me.

I am a programmer.  Intellectual property rights are what feed my family.  However, modding a piece of equipment may be a breach of contract (terms of use crap) but it is not illegal in that there's a law preventing you from modding equipment.  As has been pointed out, if you're using a modified MS Bios tehn you're -using- a piece of software that has been illegally obtained and created, but I'm not sure it's illegal to USE.  Think of the FBI warnings on movies.  They talk about copying and distributing, not viewing.

Yes, this is splitting hairs.  Yes, it's a grey area of the law.  No, I don't think MS is excited about modders.

I also don't think that modding a personal xbox for legal software use hurts anyone.  Now if you're pirating a ton of games, yeah, I'll never condone that.  There's lots of bad stuff that CAN happen in a modded xbox situation, but simply owning a modded xbox doesn't make you a criminal.  Unless there are laws out there that I've not encountered yet.

[lloydcom]

Then lets get a solid answer from Saint.  He makes the rules, and it is his site.

I'm really impressed that the above posters have made factual enquiries about modding copyrighted equpment.  I know someone very close to me who is employed by the said company. 

Shall I ask him for the definitive answer too?  I already know the answer.

AFAIK is a load of  .

AFAIK means nothing. 

You open a perfectly working piece of equipment to bypass the bios to load other programs not designed by the company who created the system, is circumventing and is against the law as set by the DMCA.  Unless you are a library and want to catalogue outdated softwares for the use in education or a historian, you are breaking the law.

This is something I do not want children to learn, or to read about thinking "its cool to steal".  Try explaining this to children after learning the concept and then make the connection that stealing your car is a good idea too.  I'm not getting Twilight Zoney here. 

Because its that simple guys.  Softmodding, Mod chips, pirating games, etc. is wrong.  Not because I'm being a troll or being lame or spoiling your fun as you want to play donkey kong yet again on a system you can easily get working on an old PC.

I'm all for hacking controllers or adding features like vga boxes or converstions to arcade monitors, because it doesn't hurt anyone.  And its is in the spirit that this site was created.

If Bill Gates and Microsoft wanted you, the consumer to run such code, he/they would make a provision for it.  I'm just totally surprised that full grown adults are finding this concept difficult to grasp. 

I know we have MAME and the rom issue is old hat.  Big deal.  I'm sure you guys own every rom/eprom/pcb that is in your collection.  I'm not pointing fingers at that.

I love homebrew, got some on my PSP via the Tiff exploit, and I think its cool, but I am not hacking the PSP to lay ripped ISOs like some others that can run dev hook 3.xxx and gleefully think its cool.  I buy my games, and I don't need to hack to play dig dug.  I bought Namco Battle Museum and it rocks.
 
But not something like the Xbox that is very still alive in the marketplace, that still has an attraction to the youngsters who do not have resources to buy games or maybe parents who are not able to afford them, to lead them down this path.

What about the developers who write the games?  NAMCO, Nintendo, Sega, Atari?  Its because of them we have this hobby, is it fair to them?  If you want a media centre get a Xbox 360.

Here I go because nobody wants to listen.....

* I've deleted my Tiff exploit as mentioned by ChadTower, but I still like homebrew.  Maybe Sony will make a licensed way to play it someday.

[ChadTower]

Erm, you do know, that an "exploit" is simply circumvention via an existing defect in the product, yes? 

[JackTucky]

Whether gates wanted us to do it or not does not make it illegal.

Your posts, however, make me want to go to jail.

-J

[lloydcom]

Erm, you do know, that an "exploit" is simply circumvention via an existing defect in the product, yes? 

Yes and shame on me.  I'll just delete it now.  Done.  Can you do that with your soldered modded xbox Chad?

[ChadTower]

No, nor do I particularly care for a half reasoned diatribe on the ethics of IP management.  I've been in this field for a long time now and have a full comprehension of it and what the actual issues are, thanks.  You're preaching to the wrong guy.

[pointdablame]

But not something like the Xbox that is very still alive in the marketplace, that still has an attraction to the youngsters who do not have resources to buy games or maybe parents who are not able to afford them, to lead them down this path.

What about the developers who write the games?  NAMCO, Nintendo, Sega, Atari?  Its because of them we have this hobby, is it fair to them?  If you want a media centre get a Xbox 360.

Here I go because nobody wants to listen.....

you're making a huge ASSumption that a modded Xbox automatically equals stolen games and piracy.  That's just wrong, and plain stupid.

I have 2 modded Xboxes.  I own a good number of games for it.  Know when the last time I PLAYED a game on my xbox was?  I can't even remember.  I use my Xbox as a media center.  It plays all my music and videos throughout my home network onto my tv.  Guess what... I timeshift my TV shows too, perhaps you can give me a piracy email account for Fox and NBC?  I also rip all of my music CDs so I can play them throughout my house.  Better let your friends at Sony and BMG know about me too.

Modification of hardware is NOT wrong in and of itself, and I don't even care what the DMCA or similar laws state.  Remember, this is the law that initally told us we could make copies of our DVDs, but couldn't circumvent protections.  Oh yeah... but you can't make copies WITHOUT breaking the protection... awesome legislation guys.  I can see what you stick so concretely to such a well written act.

Mod chips are not illegal.  What you do with them may or may not be.  I find it hard that you can't grasp that.  And as for MS caring, it again comes down to how you use your modded box.  I bought my Xbox... I bought games for it... I bought controllers and accessories.  I also modded it and use it as a media center, an option that MS does not give me.  I have in no way affected the revenue stream that Microsoft would get from my purchase.  Why is that so hard a concept to understand?

And the TIFF exploit is a hack/mod/alteration just as much as DevHook is.  And again, you can use DevHook to run homebrew just like you can use it to run ISOs.  You're making broad assumptions on usage that make you look silly.  A butter knife could probably kill someone, should we outlaw those?  Just because something can be used for devious means, that item is not automatically wrong and illegal.

[pointdablame]

Erm, you do know, that an "exploit" is simply circumvention via an existing defect in the product, yes? 

Yes and shame on me.  I'll just delete it now.  Done.  Can you do that with your soldered modded xbox Chad?

um yeah.. he can.  Since when is solder a non-reversible process?  You can un-mod an Xbox as easily as you can mod it.

[lloydcom]

But not something like the Xbox that is very still alive in the marketplace, that still has an attraction to the youngsters who do not have resources to buy games or maybe parents who are not able to afford them, to lead them down this path.

What about the developers who write the games?  NAMCO, Nintendo, Sega, Atari?  Its because of them we have this hobby, is it fair to them?  If you want a media centre get a Xbox 360.

Here I go because nobody wants to listen.....

you're making a huge ASSumption that a modded Xbox automatically equals stolen games and piracy.  That's just wrong, and plain stupid.

I have 2 modded Xboxes.  I own a good number of games for it.  Know when the last time I PLAYED a game on my xbox was?  I can't even remember.  I use my Xbox as a media center.  It plays all my music and videos throughout my home network onto my tv.  Guess what... I timeshift my TV shows too, perhaps you can give me a piracy email account for Fox and NBC?  I also rip all of my music CDs so I can play them throughout my house.  Better let your friends at Sony and BMG know about me too.

Modification of hardware is NOT wrong in and of itself, and I don't even care what the DMCA or similar laws state.  Remember, this is the law that initally told us we could make copies of our DVDs, but couldn't circumvent protections.  Oh yeah... but you can't make copies WITHOUT breaking the protection... awesome legislation guys.  I can see what you stick so concretely to such a well written act.

Mod chips are not illegal.  What you do with them may or may not be.  I find it hard that you can't grasp that.  And as for MS caring, it again comes down to how you use your modded box.  I bought my Xbox... I bought games for it... I bought controllers and accessories.  I also modded it and use it as a media center, an option that MS does not give me.  I have in no way affected the revenue stream that Microsoft would get from my purchase.  Why is that so hard a concept to understand?

And the TIFF exploit is a hack/mod/alteration just as much as DevHook is.  And again, you can use DevHook to run homebrew just like you can use it to run ISOs.  You're making broad assumptions on usage that make you look silly.  A butter knife could probably kill someone, should we outlaw those?  Just because something can be used for devious means, that item is not automatically wrong and illegal.

I can go out and buy a modchip.  That is legal.  Nothing wrong with it.  Could be any mod chip.  I can hang it on my wall like some modern day art. 

I can get a sledgehammer and mush it into a gazillion pieces, glue it on a wooden board and call it modern day expressionist art that I'm sure many would like to purchase. 

Nothing wrong in that.  So far we are doing nothing illegal.  We ok with that?

Still with us ChadTower, pointdablame?  We green?

Ok what we cannot do is open a xbox, PS2, PS1, DC whatever else heck even a bricked PSP and insert it in.  Its not going to magically have a slot or a connector for you to insert.  The mod chip is not endorsed by Microsoft, Sony, Sega, Etc.

I'm not going to carry this on any further.  If you have problems reading this, get your wife, mom or dad to read my posts to you.   I'm sure they will reason with you and make you understand.

[ChadTower]

Someone may want to explain to this guy the difference between the hardware and software.  Fundamentally, the concept of hardware ownership vs a license to operate the embedded software within that hardware.

Alter the hardware for any reason:   
Alter the embedded software:   

I own this Xbox.  I can physically mod it as I see fit so long as I do not alter the software it contains.  I can add fans, I can replace components, I can paint it military grey.  I have not fundamentally changed its operation because I have not changed the software that runs it.

Once I change that software, especially if I do so via a hardware modification, then I have wandered into the area you don't like.

You really don't have to try and argue this concept with me.  I spent quite a while as an embedded firmware engineer. 

[pointdablame]

Ok what we cannot do is open a xbox, PS2, PS1, DC whatever else heck even a bricked PSP and insert it in.  Its not going to magically have a slot or a connector for you to insert.  The mod chip is not endorsed by Microsoft, Sony, Sega, Etc.

I'm not going to carry this on any further.  If you have problems reading this, get your wife, mom or dad to read my posts to you.   I'm sure they will reason with you and make you understand.

so because it isn't authorized by the company and it doesn't have a "slot" to insert it in, its ILLEGAL?  wow.

So is it illegal to fit a supercharger to my car? It's not authorized by the company... it doesn't have a "supercharger slot" that just plugs right in in 2 seconds.  So its illegal? No.  Your explanation above is extremely narrow, and just untrue.  Endorsement and fit have nothing to do with the legality of modchips (or any hardware modification).

Now the DMCA says that the use of modchips to circumvent protections used on software (in this case games) is illegal.  I'm not disputing what it says, I'm disputing that the automatic use of a modchip = illegality.  That is very narrow minded.

Why, in your mind, is it illegal for me to use my Xbox as a media center?  My use of an alternate BIOS is at best a legal grey area, and at worst I violation of MS's TOS, but where am I circumventing copy protection in order to illegally use copyrighted works?  How is that hurting the game developers you mention previously?


And excellent use of the "i'm not gonna respond anymore" card.  Well done.. very well done.  You sure showed us.  Oh and the mom and dad crack.... I can really tell you've done this before.

[Grasshopper]

Ok what we cannot do is open a xbox, PS2, PS1, DC whatever else heck even a bricked PSP and insert it in.  Its not going to magically have a slot or a connector for you to insert.  The mod chip is not endorsed by Microsoft, Sony, Sega, Etc.

Chad's correct. Using a modchip is 100% legal. It's no different to adding third party alloy wheels to a Ford car. Ford may not endorse the wheels but there's nothing they can do to prevent you from fitting them.

[pointdablame]

Ok what we cannot do is open a xbox, PS2, PS1, DC whatever else heck even a bricked PSP and insert it in.  Its not going to magically have a slot or a connector for you to insert.  The mod chip is not endorsed by Microsoft, Sony, Sega, Etc.

Chad's correct. Using a modchip is 100% legal. It's no different to adding third party alloy wheels to a Ford car. Ford may not endorse the wheels but there's nothing they can do to prevent you from fitting them.

 

[Silver]

I wrote a long reply on various points, such as your statement on "copyrighted equpment" and how I agree that pirating games is wrong, but I disagree on Softmodding and Mod chips. (and the confusion that you then openly admit to softmodding your PSP).

There was also a big point on how you seem to place what MS wants and what is legal into the same bag. There is no correlation at all between what is legal and what a company makes provision for.

But then I deleted as I realised I don't want to carry on this conversation either. If anyone does, Why don't we create new post in EE and continue there....

[pointdablame]

But then I deleted as I realised I don't want to carry on this conversation either. If anyone does, Why don't we create new post in EE and continue there....

an excellent idea.  There's a lot of good info in this thread and we've poisoned that a bit.

Maybe Peale can split this off into an EE thread from where the fun starts?

[Silver]

Back on topic...

I've got a spare HD lying around I plan to use, which is a 7200rpm job, which I suspect may get pretty hot with the lack of cooling in the Xbox HD area. I've read that 5400rpm are recommended for heat purposes (and the fact you don't get any speed benefit).

Anyone had any issues with overheating? HD or otherwise?

I'm planning to stick in a spare 80mm fan (with some creative dremmel action) in place of the stock one to cut down on all that noise. I've been surprised how loud the Xbox is - noisiest console I've ever used.