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Author Topic: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?  (Read 10876 times)

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elvis

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2006, 02:17:48 am »
They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.
Linux is near-infinitely configurable.  You can make it jump hoops if you like.  I think of windows like a big black box with a few buttons on it.  Sure, you can push the buttons and maybe even paint the box a different colour, but at the end of the day you aren't in control.

Linux is like they gave you the keys and detailed schematics.  You are free to do as you like.  Open the box up, peer inside, and modify it in any way you like.  Linux is 100% "free".  And by free, they don't mean just free of cost.  They mean free as in liberated.

All of my cabs at home run Linux.  They boot quicker than Windows, take less resources than Windows (memory, disk space, etc, etc), and are configured exactly the way I want them configured.  I don't need to go and disable a thousand and one services to make my system perform well because there were never any services installed that I didn't want.

Hardware support is brilliant.  One of the biggest problems with DOS is getting PCI sound to work properly.  I have yet to find a soundcard that doesn't work in Linux "out of the box".  With a recent kernel and the inbuilt alsa drivers, the system boots and finds the soundcard for you.  The only configuration you need to do is set the volume!

Outside of MAME cabs, most GNU/Linux applications are licensed under public licenses like the GPL.  This means no license fees.  Great for schools and governments.  Want to run 1000 desktops with 1000 copies of Open Office, 1000 graphic/photo editing suites, 1000 3D CAD packages, 1000 software development studios, 1000 movie editing suites etc, etc?  Sure.  It'll cost you $0.  AND you can give copies of the same software to anyone you like freely (again, great for schools who want to send software home with students).

I use free software, I write free software, I even donate money to other free software authors.  It's a liberating world once you discover what it can bring you.

MajorLag

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2006, 05:57:00 am »
I have no idea if it would work or not, but you could also try ReactOS. Its an open source clone of Windows with the goal of being binary compatable, so you could (theoretically) install any Windows app or driver and it will work. Its still considered alpha, but its moving along pretty well and might suit your needs. Theres no compatability database entry for Mame, so theres no way to tell if it will work or not without trying it.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2006, 08:02:36 am »
I was just about to suggest ReactOS also. I'm not sure what compatability and performace is like, but you should download it now before MS shuts them down.

MAME is not noted as working in the package tree:
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/PackageManager_Tree

BlinKY1337

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2006, 12:48:04 pm »
Ever think of getting XP the same way we get roms  >:D

rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2006, 03:20:19 pm »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
 
Next I want to see a game console that plays both Sony and xbox games. Nothing worse than watching the holiday commercials about some game you ll never be able to play unless you buy another console. I have herd that the video game industry is  worth 75 billion. What part of that is monopolized by Sony?

Then I want to be elected emperor so I can pave the roads with marshmallows so no has to go hungry when on long car trips unless they don't like mashmellow. Which means they are probably car carrying communists sent here by the licorice brigade to consume the caramel in the center of your brain.

I think that I better use windows because there are more people to help me with it.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2006, 04:43:29 pm »
I think that I better use windows because there are more people to help me with it.

Actually you will find a lot more people to help you with Linux than with Windows and those people will tend to know a lot more about computers than there windows counterparts.

For some great examples, check out: http://www.linuxquestions.org/

With that said, I use Linux for my file server and windows for all of my mame stuff.  I did get xmame and advancemame to work fine on Linux.  The reasons I went with windows, was better hardware support, better frontends, and I needed windows to run visual pinball.

If I could not afford windows, I would use Linux with advancemame.  By using advancemame, you avoid a bunch of headaches with Xwindows, Gnome, KDE, etc.  I am currently in Fedora 4 camp.  I ran Xmame and advancemame on a 600 mhz Pentimum with 192m of ram.  It ran as well as my Athalon does.


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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2006, 08:11:10 pm »
and another plus to linux besides it being free and all is you can get a sweet lil penguin dude and put it on your desk and everyone will know how  :censored: in cool you are

elvis

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2006, 08:24:27 pm »
I was just about to suggest ReactOS also. I'm not sure what compatability and performace is like, but you should download it now before MS shuts them down.
Microsoft can't shut it down.  ReactOS is protected by the same copyright laws that protect Microsoft software.  The APIs used within ReactOS come from existing projects such as WINE, and were built legally and fairly under both international and US copyright law.

It is also free software (free as in freedom), which means that no sole entity owns the code.  Microsoft can't even buy it out, as the existing GPL code could be forked as a new project the moment they tried to "buy" it.

ReactOS is not going anywhere.  It's free, and it's legal.  Microsoft, nor anyone else on the entire planet can stop it.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2006, 02:26:06 am »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2006, 12:44:47 pm »
The problem with win2000 is it doesn't support multiple mice (to seperate players).  If you don't care about that ... Marble Madness, Cabal, Tehkan World ... [shrug]

Linux, winXP and win98 all support multiple mice (in advanceMame/official mame). 

Don't know about ReactOS.
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rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2006, 07:11:43 pm »
I do have two trackball one on the vertical side and one on the horizontal but I was going to hook them together and then hook them to a GGG spinner. I wonder what marble madness would be like playing it from the side? I can always change stuff next year when I get out of school and have some cash.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2006, 09:58:22 am »
I do have two trackball one on the vertical side and one on the horizontal but I was going to hook them together and then hook them to a GGG spinner. I wonder what marble madness would be like playing it from the side? I can always change stuff next year when I get out of school and have some cash.
If you hook them together to a GGG spinner, you can't use them separately (two-player games) for each player - but it is a convenient idea.  (Also you can't just do this, you need a DPDT switch to select the active one - see http://www.oscarcontrols.com/DPDTswitch.shtml  (Actually, you would need to switch both axis, so you would either need a 4-pole dual throw switch (probably rotary), or two DPDT's ganged together).  (Or just get a separate Opti-Wiz for the second trackball).

I think it would be real difficult playing Marble Madness from the side.

What I would do (assuming you have a SF setup on one horizontal side), is move the trackball to the opposite horizontal side and then add a second (third?) trackball for CABAL, Marble Madness, etc. connected through another Opti-Wiz.

Choice of moving the trackball from the vertical side or adding a third on the horizontal depends if you like Centipede, Millipede, etc. - I think most other trackball games were horizontal.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2006, 11:49:21 pm »
I have always been eager to jump on an alternative OS bandwagon, but I have had lackluster experiences with Linux. I tried it 10 years ago and it was so amazingly slow, I tried it two years ago and it was very slow vs Windows. As an application developer, I just chose to stick with Windows.

I was even anticipating the release of BeOS but it went belly up and it wasn't pretty either.

I've legally owned every copy of Windows, though I don't necessarily have the disks anymore. So last night I downloaded Win 98 SE with bittorrent.  I have XP but I want to give that a try first.  Just something to consider if you've had Windows in the past. Not sure its 100% legal but I figure I paid for it once, not gonna pay for it again.

rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2006, 06:57:53 pm »
Wow I had no idea that so many people would have an opinion regarding this. I think I will have access to windows soon so I have given up on the Linux idea.

The only windows I have right now is windows 95 on my old thinkpad (still use this sucker every day, built like a tank) We do have newer computers but they are all Macs and belong to my wife.

The people at this forum are so helpfull. I hope you guys all chime in when I plug all these parts together on my kitchen table and try to install windows and Mame and front ends and skins and ...etc :blah:
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MajorLag

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2006, 08:01:08 pm »
Quote
I was even anticipating the release of BeOS but it went belly up and it wasn't pretty either.
Keep an eye on Haiku

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2006, 11:35:48 pm »
That's one of my favorite parts of squidbillys. First is when he makes out with a pumpkin. :laugh2:
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elvis

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2006, 02:57:42 am »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.

You all have the wrong idea.

Linux is free.  Free as in freedom.  Freedom as in you can do whatever the hell you like with it and nobody can stop you.

"Free" has multiple definitions in english.  Spanish/French uses the term "libre" instead, which literally translated means "liberated".

Linux can be sold for money.  Any amount of money you like.  You can stand on the street corner and sell Linux distributions for $1,000,000 a copy if you like.  That's your freedom.  Your customers are free to buy it too, if they wish.  They are also free to download it for no cost.  That is their freedom.

There is plenty of software out there that costs nothing, but it is not "free".  Some people refer to this as "freeware".  But this only refers to its cost, and not your ability to do anything you like with it.  This software is still non-free, as you have limited freedoms.

True free software grants you the freedom to do with the software as you like, use it as you like, manipulate it as you like, copy it for whomever you like, and give it away or sell it in any way you like.  You are given these freedoms with true free software.

"Free software" has nothing to do with cost.

NightGod

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2006, 03:20:08 am »
But freedom always comes at a price.

Just because something comes with restrictions doesn't mean that certain people don't feel more free when they choose to use it. While one person may prefer the freedom of being able to do whatever they want while giving up the structure that comes with rules, others may prefer the freedom of not having to worry about where to find support and lack of accountability.

One simply has to choose which form of freedom they want to yoke themselves with.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2006, 04:03:06 am »
"Free" has multiple definitions in english.
...
True free software grants you the freedom to do with the software as you like, use it as you like, manipulate it as you like, copy it for whomever you like, and give it away or sell it in any way you like.
...
"Free software" has nothing to do with cost.

as the linux folks are fond of saying: free as in "free speech," not free as in "free beer."
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2006, 07:49:49 am »
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.
Well, I've used Windows and I've played around with Knoppix.

My take (and I might be wrong) on what NightGod is saying would be as follows:

Windows (XP Home SP2 Retail) currently costs about $150.00, depending where you buy it.  Linux currently costs $0 unless you don't look in the right places.

However, I can install Windows and run all the same applications I have used for years.

I can install Linux and while driver support is much better than it used to be, I still may end up having to search the web and support groups (rather than the hardware vendor) for correct drivers.  In extrememe cases I may have to swap components to find hardware that runs under Linux.  I may have to search the web for compatible Linux equivalents of the Windows programs I currently use.  If I can't find equivalent apps, I may have to run WinE (Windows Emulator) to run these programs.  If they don't run under WinE, I might have to run Windows XP as a virtual process (negating the cost savings).

In any case, depending on how much value I place on my time, at some point the value of the time I spend configuring Linux may outweigh my initial cost with Windows.

NOTE:  Before I get flamed by the Linux user crowd - Yes, I realize that I would initially spend as much time configuring Windows as I do Linux, that I could have searched for Linux compatible components to build my system initially, that there usually are equivalent Linux programs to what I use in Windows, and that if I weren't already a long-time Windows user I wouldn't have particular Windows programs that I knew I wanted to use.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2006, 03:02:57 pm »
Oh wait you forgot "(Freedoms just another word for nothing to lose)" Janis Joplin(1969)

On one hand, if I was a computer guy, I bet the flexability of Linux would be awesome.

But if your not real good with computers, the familiars of windows and its compatability is a plus for a  rookie like me :dizzy:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2006, 03:58:00 pm »
Honestly, I'm a "computer guy" and Linux still isn't worth my time. SO many other things I can be doing besides learning a new OS that has such a small market penetration and is generally used by enthusiasts, so the market for support isn't there, since those are exactly the kind of people who do all their own support.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2006, 04:29:21 pm »
replacing windows for general desktop use is different from an "embedded" application, like a file server or a dedicated mame cabinet.

i can attest that a basic installation that runs one application is dead simple to do with linux. my home file server is an existence proof. i'd assume setting up linux to run mame is comparable, but i can't speak from experience.

i haven't yet tried linux as a general-purpose desktop replacement, but i intend to after i buy my next laptop, freeing up my current laptop for experimentation.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2006, 09:10:05 pm »
ya know i dont condone this but :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:bittorrent :blah: :blah: :blah:

lol yea if it is just for mame and wont be on the net...maybe do a search for windows xp lite also...just one mans corrupt opinion.... :applaud: :applaud:

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2006, 03:19:51 am »
I have come across a copy of window thanks to a little help form a very nice person. I love the people at this forum. I think Linux would have frustrated a non computer guy like myself.

I read at (avsforum.com) that Sony and several other big TV makers want to run a form of Linux on their TVs to create a simple internet hook up for the masses.   :o
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2006, 04:21:32 am »
others may prefer the freedom of not having to worry about where to find support and lack of accountability.
No software has accountability.  This is the silliest argument EVER for choosing software.

Read the Microsoft licensing terms.  Microsoft have no accountability for anything their software does EVER.  Same goes for any software on the planet, free or non-free.

By all means, excercise your right to choice.  I am 100% for anyone choosing a software package because THEY want it, and not because they were told to use it (by myself or anyone else).  But in the same breath, please use reasonable criteria.  "Accountability" is a term that does not apply to software in any circumstance ever.  And if you don't believe me, I challenge you to show me a license clause that says otherwise.  I've read quite a few, and still haven't found one.


Honestly, I'm a "computer guy" and Linux still isn't worth my time. SO many other things I can be doing besides learning a new OS that has such a small market penetration and is generally used by enthusiasts, so the market for support isn't there, since those are exactly the kind of people who do all their own support.
You are grossly misinformed.  Linux and GNU software has a massive market share in the server, embedded and internet device markets (larger than all Microsoft products combined).  Don't assume that just because you deal primarily with desktops and low-end corporate setups that there is no other type of setup in the ludicrously large industry that is IT.

Again, by all means excercise your choice to use or not use a product.  But please, do your research before regurgitating the above common misconceptions.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2006, 04:24:36 am by elvis »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2006, 07:32:56 pm »
From the sounds of it Linux seems real flexable and tweakable. I know thare are lots of computer guys as members of this forum.

Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs. They could even sell it (for cheap) to pay for their time. :soapbox:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2006, 07:46:33 pm »
Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs. They could even sell it (for cheap) to pay for their time.
Someone already has: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56385.0

Linux is pretty cool, but its definately not for a novice.  I tried linux a few years ago, but it doesn't support software I prefer or need to use (including most games) and the ones it does support I'd have to buy the linux versions in order to use them and I'm not going to spend that much money just to use linux.  Windows is the way to go for me.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2006, 04:38:52 am »
"Accountability" is a term that does not apply to software in any circumstance ever.  And if you don't believe me, I challenge you to show me a license clause that says otherwise.  I've read quite a few, and still haven't found one.

You are grossly misinformed.  Linux and GNU software has a massive market share in the server, embedded and internet device markets (larger than all Microsoft products combined).  Don't assume that just because you deal primarily with desktops and low-end corporate setups that there is no other type of setup in the ludicrously large industry that is IT.
I mean accountability for the products you use on the system-while there are some hardware manufacturers who release drivers for Linux, the vast majority still do not. The same goes for software. Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux. When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support? There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.

Yes, because I was obviously talking about the entirety of the IT industry rather than the desktop world that the rest of this thread dealt with-I must have missed the multi-page offshoot where we went into statistics on imbeded controllers and their use in the MAME world. Next you'll be saying that we should investigate running our MAME cabs on AS/400 boxes and using Cisco switches to somehow facilitate swappable control panels. Maybe we could look up statistics to compare MAME usage to other forms of gaming software and manage to maginalize the entire board out of existance.

Or maybe we can stick to the scope that was being discussed in the thread.

But honestly, past experience has taught me that arguing with Linux devotees is as positive an experience as arguing with Mac devotees-all different OSes have their place, much of the time one or two of them will truly shine in one area or the other-the time still has not come where anyone will convince me that Linux's place is on the average user's desktop, however.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2006, 10:12:55 am »
Quote
Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux. When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support? There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.

I'd like to give some praise to Gateway here.  I bought a new Gateway computer from Office Depot, and installed Linux on it.  Ran into a bit of trouble, and used their online support chat function to talk to them.  I explained what I was doing, and they spent the next 30 minutes helping me out.  They mentioned right up front that Linux wasn't "officially" supported, but then they proceeded to help me anyway.  Now, it dual boots into WindowsXP and Linux just fine.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:14:55 am by jwb »
--
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2006, 01:52:50 pm »
Free is when you don't have to pay for nothing or do nothing

-Frank Zappa


From the sounds of it Linux seems real flexable and tweakable.

And that's one benefit that can become one of the problems with it.

Quote
Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs.

I'm not sure if Lincade is going this way, but a LiveCD would be great. Put your ROMS on a drive, and boot off the CD. Some of the good LiveCD Linux distributions are near-zero configuration.

-pmc

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2006, 04:16:33 pm »
My cocktail runs linux. Only thing with linux is that if you are not familiar with it and you have a problem with something then you are going to have to jump though some hoops to get it working. If you like fiddling with that sort of thing and have some time to kill then you might find it interesting, if you don't then you'll hate it. Linux might be a bit overwelming as well if you aren't all that familiar computers.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2006, 10:40:38 pm »
For everyone who has never tried Linux (or tried it years ago with no success), it's time to get rid of your preconceived ideas.  Linux has arrived.  Go download www.ubuntu.com or en.opensuse.org/Download and see for yourself.

That said...since the gentleman indicates he is limited in his computer experience and just wants something for his cab, I would recommend the $40 Win2000 install.  There is just too many advantages to using Windows in a cab (front ends, Ultimarc hardware, etc.).  $40 is the right price for the convenience.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:43:12 pm by Trenchbroom »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2006, 07:41:50 pm »
... I would recommend the $40 Win2000 install.

Only problem (to some, not everyone) with win2000 is it cannot do multiple mice/lightguns/spinners*.  Win98, winXP, linux, heck even winME: yes; win2000 no.  If you don't care about marble madness, area51, war lords and the like, go for it.


*Note: win2000 can do two spinners if one is X axis, the other Y; three spinners with the correct driver to fix windows Z axis or mame hack.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2006, 02:58:33 am »
I mean accountability for the products you use on the system-while there are some hardware manufacturers who release drivers for Linux, the vast majority still do not.
You obviously don't understand the philosophy of free software.

Free software means you don't have to download drivers.  It means that the source code for drivers are free (free as in freedom to modify and improve) and are handled by the community.  (Note that "community" does not mean "non-commercial".  Many commercial vendors are a part of the Linux community - some notable members are Dell, HP, IBM, Adaptec, Promise, Realtek, etc, etc)

Manufacturers don't release Linux drivers because they don't have to.  They release a free specification of their hardware (free as in no stupid corporate NDA's).  They can either release preliminary drivers or let the community take hold of the development.

In most circumstances, hardware that is reliable and conforms to IEEE and ISO standards will have good free drivers to match.  Most of these drivers are built into the Linux kernel itself, and as such there is no need to download third-party drivers.  In some rare instances companies refuse to open-source their drivers, and make it difficult for GNU/Linux developers to include these drivers freely.  One such example is the Nidia GLX hardware-3D drivers for Xorg.  The Linux community constantly waits on Nvidia to catch up with the rapid evolution of free software.  And despite continual recommendation from the free software community (remembering again that this includes other corporates), Nvidia still do not open source their drivers.

Nvidia are one of a minority, however.  Manufacturers such as Adaptec, HP, Dell, etc freely open their drivers with great success (both in reliability of the software, and sales success as users buy their products).  I can load up my Linux desktop and plug in any HP printer, any Adaptec RAID card, any Realtek ethernet card, or load it up on any SATA motherboard and have full 100% automatic "out of the box" support for my hardware.  Something that Windows won't allow.  In fact, I often need to rely on archaic hardware such as floppy drives to install third-party non-certified drivers for my hardware when installing Windows.  Very annoying.

So again: accountability is not a concern here.  Device manufacturers have the choice of opening the specifications for their hardware (note that this DOES NOT mean they have to give away their hardware secrets - people who argue his don't know what they are talking about).  Doing so lets millions of programmers world wide develop drivers quickly with international auditing, instead of small clunky teams developing driver with minimal audits.

People who are only used to doing things the "windows way" quite often don't understand the concept of open hardware specifications, and likewise struggle to understand the concept of an operating system that doesn't require third-party drivers. 


The same goes for software. Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux.
I do frequently.  I use plenty of commercial Linux software with full support.  No complaints here.

Obviously you wouldn't buy Mac software and then try to load it under Windows and complain when the software manufacturer denied your support call.  I've not ever understood people who buy Windows software, load it under Linux via emulation software like WINE, and then complain that they can't get support.  That seems quite obvious to me.  And again, I buy Linux-native software (of which there is plenty), and enjoy the benefits.

When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support?
The provider.  Companies like RedHat, Ubuntu/Canonical, SuSE/Novell all provide commecial support plans for their distros.  Some even include it for free for the first 30 days (SuSE does this for installation help).

Conversely, for a home user of Microsoft Windows, they are charged exhorbitant fees when they ring Microsoft for telephone helpdesk support.

It sounds to me very much like you've not actually used a commercial Linux distribution.  Is that an incorrect statement to make?  And if so, should you really be offering advise on software you've never used?

There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.
Again, plenty of distros provide full commercial support.  And more notably, Microsoft themselves do not offer support by default with their desktop operating systems.  In fact, ringing their helpdesk and asking for support immediately has the support person asking for your credit card details here in Australia.  Scary stuff.

But honestly, past experience has taught me that arguing with Linux devotees is as positive an experience as arguing with Mac devotees-all different OSes have their place, much of the time one or two of them will truly shine in one area or the other-the time still has not come where anyone will convince me that Linux's place is on the average user's desktop, however.
Well, so far I haven't discounted Microsoft Windows.  All I've said is that the fallacies you spew above are not correct, and that Linux has no more or less "accountability" (what a silly term to use in software) than Windows.  Likewise neither one can really be accredited as being "better".  They both do a task, and do it well.  For me, the freedom that comes with Linux is of greater benefit and commercial usefulness to my day-to-day work than Windows.  I can get more accomplished under Linux with less effort and less cost than under Windows.  There's no emotion attached to this statement.  After many years of using many software products, Linux has proven to be the most useful for the least outlay.  This is a purely objective statement based on my personal experience only (and with it, the experience of the thousands of companies I have contracted to over the decades).

As for the average user - I started a project here in Australia that puts Linux on the average user's desktop.  Thus far the project has been met with enormous success (tens of thousands of units shipped in just months - not bad considering our population here, and our single office presence).  We are providing completely functional, internet-ready desktop computers that cost less than a single Windows license.  These include full office suites (100% compatible with Microsoft's office filetypes), graphics editing suites (comparable to Photoshop costing thousands), and countless other desktop applications (far more than I've seen packaged with any other operating system past or present).  All of this software is Linux-native, free for distribution and free of cost.

And who are the purchasors of these desktops?  Well, so far the overwhelming groups have been average folk.  Mum's and Dads, Pensioners, blue collars, white collars, businesses, students, kids and grandparents.  All of them very happy with their very average Linux desktop that does very average tasks on very average hardware.  A great many of them ask before purchasing if they can replace Linux with Windows.  We say "Yes, of course you can - but how about you try Linux out for a few days?".  So far our success rate is well over 95% of people who try it and stick with it.  And of the 5% who do switch to Windows, most do so without trying the software first, and use unlicensed software to do it with.  (I find this rediculous - if you are going to use non-free software, don't steal it for goodness sake!  There are free alternatives available so that you do not have to break the law!!!).

The irony is that if Linux was the default in every business, everyone would use it.  People are scared of change - petrified in fact.  They will do everything at their disposal to avoid it.  Tell your business leaders that they can save millions of dollars per year switching to an alternative OS (any alternative you can think of - there are dozens of other operating systems outside of Windows and Linux), and they'll make up every excuse under the sun not to.  People fear change so much that they'll discount any valid alternative at any cost.  "Better the devil you know" as the saying goes.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2006, 04:19:11 am »
You win, Linux is the best OS ever, how could I have ever been so blind.

Can we go back to helping the OP pick the OS he needs for optimal MAME performance balanced against minimal setup overhead now?

Actually, scratch that, he's already got a copy of Windows XP now.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2006, 05:24:29 am »
You win, Linux is the best OS ever, how could I have ever been so blind.
Oh stop it.  I'm not trying to tell you it's better.  I'm merely suggesting it's not nearly as bad as you think, and that perhaps the information you have at hand might need some updating.  (Shock! horror!  Software changes over time!!!).

Why does there have to be a "win/lose" situation here?  Horses for courses.  Use whatever the hell you like.  Just make sure you make your choices with all the information at hand, and not outdated facts like the above.

My issue is not your choice in software, but your feeding misinformation about certain things to the general public.

And for the record: I don't believe LInux is the "best OS ever".  It has enormous and glaring faults that need mountains of improvement.  Same with every other OS too.  They all stink just as much as each other.  Luckily for all of us, every major OS on the market is a continually evolving work in progress.

Imagine what the world would be like if we were all stuck with PC DOS 1.0, Bell Labs Unix 1.0, and MacOS 1.0?  Ewww....
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 05:28:34 am by elvis »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2006, 01:52:01 pm »
They all stink just as much as each other.

Amen.

I will say that the more recent versions of PCLinuxOS and dyne:bolic detect and run all of my hardware perfectly. Everything works properly right from first boot and is otherwise very easy to configure. For application-specific purposes, it can be a great fit and doesn't necessarily require you to get into the arcane aspects of Linux. You can just use it for what it's good for, and pass by when it isn't a fit.

For a new MAME box, I'd consider giving it a shot (and might just do that with my next project).

-pmc