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Author Topic: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?  (Read 10861 times)

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rackoon

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Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« on: July 28, 2006, 04:40:02 pm »
Well I have all the parts (waiting for VGA card to come) to put together a new computer that will be totaly dedicated to my cab. My cab is half done but I want get the computer all set up before I stick the parts in the cab. Yet I have no OS. I suppose that I was ignorant as to how much windows cost.  No wonder Bill Gates is so freaken rich.
    Anyway, I had bought all the expensive cabinet and computer parts a long time ago when I started this hobby because I knew that I would be broke when I whent back to get my masters. At this point Im kind of poor and all the computers in my house are hand me down macs. So Im looking at linux because I cant afford windows xp.

Anyone out there use linux? Is it easy to use? Will it work well with MAME? I dont know a lot about computers so Im a little scared to try linux. Or should I just save up for windows xp?
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NightGod

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 04:50:23 pm »
If you are a student, you can get a massive discount on software through your school's book store (assuming you are in the US, I don't know about other countries). This usually ends up making the price as much as 75% off retail, so you likely would want to look into that option.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

thorus

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 05:10:31 pm »
At WSU every student got a free version of XP pro for personal use.  It wasn't watered down or anything.  Talk with the IT guys and find out if you school is in bed with Microsoft.
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rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 05:13:08 pm »
I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.
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rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 05:29:48 pm »
They want $199.98 for home edition. Bill Gates is scum :troll:
I can get it for $90.00 on ebay.
They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

SithMaster

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 05:33:01 pm »
if you own a pc then use the restore disc if its xp.
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JoshuaMiller

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 05:44:12 pm »
How old are your Macs?  MacMAME works great for me (I don't have it in a cab yet, though)

If all you have are macs, you won't be able to install XP on them anyway, because of differences in system architecture.

If you are building a PC from scratch, you don't have the system restore disk.

I don't use Linux, but buddies of mine who are programmers swear by it (one even works at Microsoft)

Another option might be to use a friend's install disk, windows will allow you to authenticate 3 installations per license.

There is no reason that any sane person should spend $200 on an operating system.

--Joshua--
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 05:49:09 pm by JoshuaMiller »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 05:58:56 pm »
I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.

I weep for the standard of higher education in this country...  :'(
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 06:11:05 pm »
I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.

I weep for the standard of higher education in this country...  :'(

Amen to that... Won't be the first rackoon in space that's for sure ;)

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 06:28:01 pm »
   
Can't afford xp, should I try linux?

I'll go against the grain here (surprise surprise).

Yes, try Linux.

It's free (of cost, and of licensing restrictions).  Even if you don't like it, you've wasted nothing but your time.  Plus modern distros like Ubuntu are ludicrously simple to install.  Anyone who tells you otherwise obviously hasn't used such a distro in a while. 

I was contacted by an 80 year old grandmother not 2 months ago who told me that she successfully installed and configured Ubuntu Linux on her home PC with near zero effort, and was happily chatting to her grandkids over IM and email in under 30 minutes.  If grandma can do it, anyone can do it.

Download Ubuntu here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

Or alternatively have them ship you 5 CDs for free (they cover the shipping at their own expense!):
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

I've recently helped a company here in Australia develop a low-cost PC sales outlet that supplies systems pre-installed with Ubuntu.  The customers range from students to the unemployed and even to businesses wanting to save money on stupidly overexpensive corporate software licensing.

The in-built GUI config wizards for the system, networking, graphics/monitor, etc, etc are all point-and-click simplicity.  Plus the graphically-driven package manager means you can search quickly and easily for over 10,000 software packages (including 2 different MAME builds and 10 different frontends) and never need to go trawling on the internet for software again.  And in 2 mouse clicks, you can synchronise every single piece of software on your system (including MAME, or anything else you've installed) with the latest stable updates.

Give it a go.  It'll only cost you your time to try it out.  And if it all fails miserably, then you can always fall back to a lesser operating system.


ahofle

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 06:31:37 pm »
I agree with elvis.  The installs of Linux out there have come a long way and are very easy to setup now.  As a plus you will never have to see another blue screen of death.  :laugh2:

rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 06:34:36 pm »
The macs in my house are being used for normal stuff like writing papers and surfing the net.

The computer I built is a PC.

When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

I dont want to get in trouble with saint again regarding looking for copys of software. But I had this nightmare that in an alterante univers my evil twin had has several friends that had PCs yet they were all dells and the reinstallation disk cant be installed on a  motherboard that doesnt have a matching code (not the product code on envalope) already installed in it. Really strange dream. Must be from watching too much Futurama before I go to bed.

I have seen several places that give $50.00 discounts for student with students IDs yet only for upgrades not OS.

They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 06:49:13 pm »
ubuntu sounds good.  I wonder what emulator will work with it. My computer will never be hocked up to the internet but I could download stuff at my collage library. I suppose I should do some research.  How will microsoft compete against this stuff?

Will ubuntu install on a new hard drive like windows. I have a book on haw to install windows and I am wondering if they are kind of the same process.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 07:32:46 pm »
When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

He knows what you meant. It is the gross misspelling of the word "satellite" that causes him, and many others, to weep.

satalight ≠ satellite
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rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2006, 08:03:32 pm »
Hey, I have a minor in English from Cal State Hayward!  :hissy:


Ya, your right I cant spell worth sh@#%. :tool:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2006, 08:09:02 pm »

I dont want to get in trouble with saint again regarding looking for copys of software. But I had this nightmare that in an alterante univers my evil twin had has several friends that had PCs yet they were all dells and the reinstallation disk cant be installed on a  motherboard that doesnt have a matching code (not the product code on envalope) already installed in it. Really strange dream. Must be from watching too much Futurama before I go to bed.


Dell OEM installation/reinstallation cd checks the bios to verify that the computer is a Dell and then, if it is, you can make a clean install without a registration code (Dell OEM code is used by the cd installation).  With this option, all Windows updates from MS site work without the need for legal (unique) registration number.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 08:18:04 pm »
When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

He knows what you meant. It is the gross misspelling of the word "satellite" that causes him, and many others, to weep.

satalight ≠ satellite

Oh, but the fun was that he... oh, nevermind!  :banghead:

Rackoon, if you do a Froogle search for Windows XP, you'll come up with copies that are legit, and extremely reasonable. Most of the vendors will buy Volume Licenses and split off the individual CAL's for resale. Actually, I don't know how legit it is, but you, the consumer aren't necessarily held liable.

http://www.google.com/froogle

If the only thing this PC is gonna do is run your cabinet, what the heck do you need pro for anyway? Unless you are going to have an Active Directory Domain of Mame cabs.  ???

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 11:32:07 pm »
Linux is not that difficult tho I have never operated this platform for MAME.

Another option which noone has mentioned is Windows 2k.

And depending on the hardware you need to support, Win98SE would also be an option which is what I am running in my upright cab.


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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2006, 10:59:22 am »
If your not in a hurry, then might as well try linux since it's free.  If you absolutely hate it or can't figure it out, then try to track down a copy of windows.  You won't hurt anything by trying to install linux, worst case scenario you have to format the drive and start over.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2006, 01:02:52 pm »
I'm totally not a Linux fan, but I'll second the suggestion to give it a try first if you have the time to spare-won't cost you anything but time so you might as well see how it works for you.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2006, 01:31:51 pm »
if linux doesnt work for you id say go for an older version of windows
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2006, 02:26:43 pm »
since you've already bought your components, this will not be an option for you, but for others reading this thread...

if you watch forums like techbargains, slickdeals, anandtech, and fatwallet, you can occasionally find very inexpensive new PCs. for example, i bought a new emachines desktop PC from CompUsa a few months back for $199, including XP home. with the addition of a cheap graphics card with DVI out for my plasma, it makes a great MAME machine, and was less expensive and less work than assembling from components.
to see my "Frankenpanel" and design notes, click here.

rackoon

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2006, 05:26:33 pm »
I have a copy of Saints book and he totally passes over windows 2k. He goes from 98 to xp without even mentioning 2k. Whats the deal. Is 98 and 2k the same or is 2k not compatable with MAME?
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2006, 07:22:17 pm »
98 and 2K are not the same, but I can't explain all the differences.

98 was a gamer's/home users OS.
NT was a "business" OS and did not support USB (IMS).
2K is based off the NT kernel, but adds USB support and generally works fine for MAME, but maybe not so good for other PC games.
XP is based off the NT kernel, but added most of the gaming support back in.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2006, 10:17:19 pm »
If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).

Freedos works great

http://www.freedos.org/


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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2006, 10:42:41 pm »
They want $199.98 for home edition. Bill Gates is scum :troll:
I can get it for $90.00 on ebay.

bill dont work there no more...


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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2006, 11:27:34 pm »
If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).
Freedos works great
http://www.freedos.org/

What are you smokin'?!?!?! DOS was a great OS up until that whole mouse thing came along. And yeah, Mame can run on DOS, but why bother. You have to load USB support if you can find the driver for the mobo you are using, and good luck finding audio drivers for any sound card made in, oh, say, the last 10 years. And then recommend some kind of DOS that isn't nearly as ubiquitous and understood as MSDOS (which is free BTW)? Hell you might also recommend that he upgrade to the latest 12-inch EGA computer monitor for his cabinet.

Listen Rackoon, Get DOS if you want. Use Linux if you have way too much free-time on your hands and you were looking to burn it up with *something*. But if you want it to JUST WORK, with concepts that you already know and use well, pick up a copy of Windows somewhere. You can find a copy cheap and this thread has more than enough suggestions for you to make an informed decision on what to do.

There's nothing, absolutely NOTHING, wrong with Windows 2000. Windows XP has slightly better USB device recognition, but that's only because it's newer and there are more devices now. Windows 2000 will leave you with a smaller memory footprint than XP too. PLUS, if you can't find a copy of Windows 2000 *wicked cheap*, I'd be surprised. There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

I don't hate DOS or Linux and I don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about brand loyalty. I use whatever operating system will allow me to get my job done the fastest and the most efficient with the least amount of screwing around.

Lokki, I didn't mean to piss in your punch, but it *drives me crazy* when obviously technical people recommend overly technical solutions for people who are obviously not highly technical. It's a waste of time and it only leads to ample amounts of frustration of the non-technical person.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 11:37:18 pm by In2ishun »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2006, 01:07:43 am »
There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

you have to be careful about service packs. microsoft introduced automatic software updates (and some level of license checking, i think) in one of the Win2K service packs. IIRC you're ok up thru at least SP2.

OTOH, if you don't keep up with service packs and updates, you may have some security vulnerabilities, unless you keep your mame machine off the net or behind a firewall.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2006, 01:28:24 am »
you have to be careful about service packs. microsoft introduced automatic software updates (and some level of license checking, i think) in one of the Win2K service packs. IIRC you're ok up thru at least SP2.

OTOH, if you don't keep up with service packs and updates, you may have some security vulnerabilities, unless you keep your mame machine off the net or behind a firewall.

Yup, yup. All good recommendations. I second these motions. ;D

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2006, 07:50:32 am »
Windows NT is 4.0 version
Windows 2000 is 5.0 version
Windows XP is 5.1 version
Windows 2003 Server is 5.2 version
Windows Vista is 6.0 version

If you have a slower computer, definitely install Windows 2000.

Windows 98SE (Second Edition - USB support, not the initial Win98) - not bad, but prone to memory leaks, so you have to restart more often or it will freeze.  Also, important point - Win98 works with max 256 MB of memory, more efficiently with 128 MB.  Adding more ram can actually slow down the computer.

Windows ME - some people didn't like it and still preffered 98, but I had a decent experience with it.  Felt like it was a bit faster than Win98 and had system restore and lots of updated drivers.

Windows 2000 - remember using a beta version of it first.  Very stable for its time.  Still preffered by many today.  Runs well on older laptops and computers.  Better memory management, so you can install up to 4 GB of ram and NTFS system supports files bigger than 4 GB.  Highly recommended for older computers.  RAID, iSCSI and accessibility support.  Less fluff than WinXP.  Can be run stable for long periods of time.

Windows XP - Stable platform (I run it sometimes nonstop month or two without a reboot).  More fluff on desktop, but it can be turned off in preferences to speed it up, so it will basically look like Windows 2000.  Multithreading, improved device support, kernel tweaks, better power management with hibernate, compatibility mode, fast user switching and ClearType for TFT/LCD monitors.  Windows Genuine Advantage checks for valid license, but this can be easily circumvented.

If you need any help with Windows, PM me.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2006, 12:27:23 pm »
   
Can't afford xp, should I try linux?

I was contacted by an 80 year old grandmother not 2 months ago who told me that she successfully installed and configured Ubuntu Linux on her home PC with near zero effort, and was happily chatting to her grandkids over IM and email in under 30 minutes.  If grandma can do it, anyone can do it.

Download Ubuntu here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2006, 01:07:31 pm »
If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).
Freedos works great
http://www.freedos.org/

What are you smokin'?!?!?! DOS was a great OS up until that whole mouse thing came along. And yeah, Mame can run on DOS, but why bother. You have to load USB support if you can find the driver for the mobo you are using, and good luck finding audio drivers for any sound card made in, oh, say, the last 10 years. And then recommend some kind of DOS that isn't nearly as ubiquitous and understood as MSDOS (which is free BTW)? Hell you might also recommend that he upgrade to the latest 12-inch EGA computer monitor for his cabinet.
He never mentioned he needed USB.  Or the computer that he was planning on using. Mouse support is not really that hard (Non USB).  I agree that sound is an issue but there are plenty of mobo that work under DOS.
He mentioned he did not have money to buy XP. I would say he should use XP. But given his original request.

Quote
There's nothing, absolutely NOTHING, wrong with Windows 2000. Windows XP has slightly better USB device recognition, but that's only because it's newer and there are more devices now. Windows 2000 will leave you with a smaller memory footprint than XP too. PLUS, if you can't find a copy of Windows 2000 *wicked cheap*, I'd be surprised. There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

I don't hate DOS or Linux and I don't give a ---Cleveland steamer--- about brand loyalty. I use whatever operating system will allow me to get my job done the fastest and the most efficient with the least amount of screwing around.

Lokki, I didn't mean to piss in your punch, but it *drives me crazy* when obviously technical people recommend overly technical solutions for people who are obviously not highly technical. It's a waste of time and it only leads to ample amounts of frustration of the non-technical person.

Are you implying that Installing and using Linux is easier than installing and using DOS?
Once you have the OS installed you still have to configure MAME (and or other emulators) and configure a front end.




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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2006, 01:14:33 pm »
They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.

I messed aroud with Linux (Mandrake) a bit before deciding on using XP with all unnecessary Services shut down.
If you don't learn how to tweak it, it starts and shuts down slower than XP/2000. Using the Black Viper guide, I got my MAME cab booting into MAME in about 22 seconds.

It has mediocre driver support. Nearly all video/sound card companies call it beta and don't offer any tech support beyond basic instructions. Most places you can go for help tell you to read the Docs/FAQs if you have any basic questions, so make sure you read 800 pages of English Docs typed by a non-English speaking person before you ask how to get a USB mouse working.

It doesn't run MAME games any faster than Windows. This was a huge disappointment to learn, and the main reason I considered it, then abandoned it.

If you do want to try an install and experiment with it, the best advice I can offer is to make sure you have ALL of the hardware you plan on using connected to it while you're doing the install. Adding stuff and trying to update drivers after the fact was my greatest stumbling block.

The main front ends are Windows only.

If you're already familiar with Windows, I don't consider it viable to learn just for MAME unless your time has little value. I spent long hours trying to get my machine working with Linux before bagging it. I never got the NVidia video card drivers working properly. If you've grown up with Windows and DOS, you're suddenly going to feel like the annoying relative that knows nothing about computers and asks you all kinds of nonsensical questions.
I got the basic install working rather easily just like Elvis said, but I'm so used to configuring/installing devices in minutes with Windows that the whole experience was a little humbling for me.

My parents are in there 80's and can't comprehend a DVD player let alone a computer, so I'm thinking Elvis' grandma was a bit ahead of the curve.  ;D
 

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2006, 01:45:52 pm »
Are you implying that Installing and using Linux is easier than installing and using DOS?Once you have the OS installed you still have to configure MAME (and or other emulators) and configure a front end.

I don't know how you got that impression from my statement. I was implying that I don't hate operating systems that I don't prefer to use. It was a pre-meditated defense for some people reading and posting to the thread who are *militant* supporters of the operating systems they use. Many (not all) Mac and Linux aficionados, for all their passion, get *nasty* when they hear anything negative about their chosen OS. I wanted to clarify before having to don a fire protection suit.

Lokki, I came off a bit strong and I apologize for my boldness -- it was a bit uncalled for. Rackoon was asking questions like whether or not Mame was supported on Windows 2000 (!?) after he bought Saint's book (!?) as well as a book on how to install Windows (!?). You and I and many others can wade through the complexity of configuring Mame to run on DOS with nearly any hardware. But, people with questions and statements like these will only become frustrated with the process and may give up too early. My goal was to protect Rackoon from what could turn out to be hours and hours of troubleshooting, resulting in him loosing interest and forsaking his project. I can take the "hours and hours", and I know you could too. I think we just have to be mindful of the advice we offer to people who are obviously new. (No insults intended Rackoon).

Rackoon, the process boils down to what you want to spend. You can spend nothing or very little on an OS, but end up spending lots of time learning. Or, you can find the extra cash up front, and spend a lot LESS time configuring. It's a balancing act only you can decide upon.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2006, 04:17:27 pm »
i don't want to start an OS war, but my limited experience of linux has been very positive. i built an Athlon 64 file server and installed SUSE linux pro 9.2. the installation was quick and simple. the built-in drivers worked great; the only one i had to download was an nvidia gfx driver, which installed easily.

that was my first and only experience with linux, and i have not tried to run mame on it, nor have i changed hardware since the initial install. i was very intimate with unix in a past life, but haven't touched it in 10 yrs, and nothing in the linux install required any unix knowledge.

i paid money for my copy of SUSE linux, but subsequent versions have been released as freeware.
to see my "Frankenpanel" and design notes, click here.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2006, 08:25:17 pm »
They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.
Presuming you have administrative priviledge, your control over linux is limited only by your skill and inclination.  Most linux distributions are more secure in default configuration.  On the down side, some of the major linux distributions are worse than XP about starting up umpteen programs you don't need on startup, and linux does take a bit of learning to make full use of.

http://www.knoppix.net/ is promising for trying linux without making a comitment.
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ is a usable complete system with a total absence of bloat, 50MB image.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2006, 08:29:24 pm »
I did not mean to incite an OS war either. Not really trying to argue to pros or cons of one OS vs another. Just which OS is better suited for an Arcade Cabinet.

Basically what i think you have the following alternatives.

XP/NT 2000 +  
Pros
Support for newer HW
Support for multiple frontends
Tons of emulators
Easy to configure
Con
Expensive

Linux

Pros
Free
HW support is getting better

Cons
Harder to configure
Not many front ends
Not many emulators

DOS

Pros
Really suitable for older HW (all those PIII and sub gig pIV that you can get for $20)
no shutdown (not really true but for most purposes it works)

A few front ends
Tons of old software that plays great on Cabinet

Cons
Hard (or impossble) to get support for newer HW.




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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2006, 09:32:06 pm »
My computer:   All used parts from EBay. Only hard drive and VGA card is new.
 My system will never see the internet. Strictly mame. Every thing will be installed through the CD drive.
 
  P4-2.66
 ECS mother board with on board audio
 ATA 100  60g  hardrive
 kingston ram 512MB 400MHz speed
 ultimarc VGAcard
 memorex cdw drive
 dotronix 27" RGB monitor
  Ipac4
 
  I build furniture out of logs in my spare time and I have built several homes before I went back to school to get my masters. My cocktail cab is half built. Its looking bad ass, diamond plate, 100 black light leds, flickering flame bulb behind logo, oak plywood, track ball on top of table for maximum swing, retro coin door, lots of midway parts, lots of custom art work.
 
  My problem is two fold
  #1 I bought all this stuff before my last kid and I went back to graduate school because I knew I would be dirt poor for the next two years ($1500 per credit ouch!). I'm still trying to save $20.00 more so I can get a GGG spinner when more come out. I never thought that OS would cost that much. All the computers I had in the past had an OS on them already.

#2 I don't know very much about computers. I surf the net and write papers for school on them and that's it. I know windows a bit because "Computers in the class room" was a prerequisite course to get into my masters program. Yet I still haven't burned a CD or downloaded music from the net.  Linux kind of scares me.

I did find windows 2000 for 40 bucks. Not bad. Could be an option yet I will have to wait several months. Crap I cant wait to finish school. Only one year and two weeks left. OOH YEA!
They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2006, 06:12:34 am »
go with windows 2000...

That's what I've used and have had no problems with it. the one thing you will want to do immediately is get the service pack 4 update if you plan on hooking it up to the internet....

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2006, 02:17:48 am »
They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.
Linux is near-infinitely configurable.  You can make it jump hoops if you like.  I think of windows like a big black box with a few buttons on it.  Sure, you can push the buttons and maybe even paint the box a different colour, but at the end of the day you aren't in control.

Linux is like they gave you the keys and detailed schematics.  You are free to do as you like.  Open the box up, peer inside, and modify it in any way you like.  Linux is 100% "free".  And by free, they don't mean just free of cost.  They mean free as in liberated.

All of my cabs at home run Linux.  They boot quicker than Windows, take less resources than Windows (memory, disk space, etc, etc), and are configured exactly the way I want them configured.  I don't need to go and disable a thousand and one services to make my system perform well because there were never any services installed that I didn't want.

Hardware support is brilliant.  One of the biggest problems with DOS is getting PCI sound to work properly.  I have yet to find a soundcard that doesn't work in Linux "out of the box".  With a recent kernel and the inbuilt alsa drivers, the system boots and finds the soundcard for you.  The only configuration you need to do is set the volume!

Outside of MAME cabs, most GNU/Linux applications are licensed under public licenses like the GPL.  This means no license fees.  Great for schools and governments.  Want to run 1000 desktops with 1000 copies of Open Office, 1000 graphic/photo editing suites, 1000 3D CAD packages, 1000 software development studios, 1000 movie editing suites etc, etc?  Sure.  It'll cost you $0.  AND you can give copies of the same software to anyone you like freely (again, great for schools who want to send software home with students).

I use free software, I write free software, I even donate money to other free software authors.  It's a liberating world once you discover what it can bring you.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2006, 05:57:00 am »
I have no idea if it would work or not, but you could also try ReactOS. Its an open source clone of Windows with the goal of being binary compatable, so you could (theoretically) install any Windows app or driver and it will work. Its still considered alpha, but its moving along pretty well and might suit your needs. Theres no compatability database entry for Mame, so theres no way to tell if it will work or not without trying it.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2006, 08:02:36 am »
I was just about to suggest ReactOS also. I'm not sure what compatability and performace is like, but you should download it now before MS shuts them down.

MAME is not noted as working in the package tree:
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/PackageManager_Tree

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2006, 12:48:04 pm »
Ever think of getting XP the same way we get roms  >:D

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2006, 03:20:19 pm »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
 
Next I want to see a game console that plays both Sony and xbox games. Nothing worse than watching the holiday commercials about some game you ll never be able to play unless you buy another console. I have herd that the video game industry is  worth 75 billion. What part of that is monopolized by Sony?

Then I want to be elected emperor so I can pave the roads with marshmallows so no has to go hungry when on long car trips unless they don't like mashmellow. Which means they are probably car carrying communists sent here by the licorice brigade to consume the caramel in the center of your brain.

I think that I better use windows because there are more people to help me with it.
They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2006, 04:43:29 pm »
I think that I better use windows because there are more people to help me with it.

Actually you will find a lot more people to help you with Linux than with Windows and those people will tend to know a lot more about computers than there windows counterparts.

For some great examples, check out: http://www.linuxquestions.org/

With that said, I use Linux for my file server and windows for all of my mame stuff.  I did get xmame and advancemame to work fine on Linux.  The reasons I went with windows, was better hardware support, better frontends, and I needed windows to run visual pinball.

If I could not afford windows, I would use Linux with advancemame.  By using advancemame, you avoid a bunch of headaches with Xwindows, Gnome, KDE, etc.  I am currently in Fedora 4 camp.  I ran Xmame and advancemame on a 600 mhz Pentimum with 192m of ram.  It ran as well as my Athalon does.


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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2006, 08:11:10 pm »
and another plus to linux besides it being free and all is you can get a sweet lil penguin dude and put it on your desk and everyone will know how  :censored: in cool you are

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2006, 08:24:27 pm »
I was just about to suggest ReactOS also. I'm not sure what compatability and performace is like, but you should download it now before MS shuts them down.
Microsoft can't shut it down.  ReactOS is protected by the same copyright laws that protect Microsoft software.  The APIs used within ReactOS come from existing projects such as WINE, and were built legally and fairly under both international and US copyright law.

It is also free software (free as in freedom), which means that no sole entity owns the code.  Microsoft can't even buy it out, as the existing GPL code could be forked as a new project the moment they tried to "buy" it.

ReactOS is not going anywhere.  It's free, and it's legal.  Microsoft, nor anyone else on the entire planet can stop it.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2006, 02:26:06 am »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2006, 12:44:47 pm »
The problem with win2000 is it doesn't support multiple mice (to seperate players).  If you don't care about that ... Marble Madness, Cabal, Tehkan World ... [shrug]

Linux, winXP and win98 all support multiple mice (in advanceMame/official mame). 

Don't know about ReactOS.
Robin
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2006, 07:11:43 pm »
I do have two trackball one on the vertical side and one on the horizontal but I was going to hook them together and then hook them to a GGG spinner. I wonder what marble madness would be like playing it from the side? I can always change stuff next year when I get out of school and have some cash.
They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2006, 09:58:22 am »
I do have two trackball one on the vertical side and one on the horizontal but I was going to hook them together and then hook them to a GGG spinner. I wonder what marble madness would be like playing it from the side? I can always change stuff next year when I get out of school and have some cash.
If you hook them together to a GGG spinner, you can't use them separately (two-player games) for each player - but it is a convenient idea.  (Also you can't just do this, you need a DPDT switch to select the active one - see http://www.oscarcontrols.com/DPDTswitch.shtml  (Actually, you would need to switch both axis, so you would either need a 4-pole dual throw switch (probably rotary), or two DPDT's ganged together).  (Or just get a separate Opti-Wiz for the second trackball).

I think it would be real difficult playing Marble Madness from the side.

What I would do (assuming you have a SF setup on one horizontal side), is move the trackball to the opposite horizontal side and then add a second (third?) trackball for CABAL, Marble Madness, etc. connected through another Opti-Wiz.

Choice of moving the trackball from the vertical side or adding a third on the horizontal depends if you like Centipede, Millipede, etc. - I think most other trackball games were horizontal.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2006, 11:49:21 pm »
I have always been eager to jump on an alternative OS bandwagon, but I have had lackluster experiences with Linux. I tried it 10 years ago and it was so amazingly slow, I tried it two years ago and it was very slow vs Windows. As an application developer, I just chose to stick with Windows.

I was even anticipating the release of BeOS but it went belly up and it wasn't pretty either.

I've legally owned every copy of Windows, though I don't necessarily have the disks anymore. So last night I downloaded Win 98 SE with bittorrent.  I have XP but I want to give that a try first.  Just something to consider if you've had Windows in the past. Not sure its 100% legal but I figure I paid for it once, not gonna pay for it again.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2006, 06:57:53 pm »
Wow I had no idea that so many people would have an opinion regarding this. I think I will have access to windows soon so I have given up on the Linux idea.

The only windows I have right now is windows 95 on my old thinkpad (still use this sucker every day, built like a tank) We do have newer computers but they are all Macs and belong to my wife.

The people at this forum are so helpfull. I hope you guys all chime in when I plug all these parts together on my kitchen table and try to install windows and Mame and front ends and skins and ...etc :blah:
They treated me like an animal and that's what I became.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2006, 08:01:08 pm »
Quote
I was even anticipating the release of BeOS but it went belly up and it wasn't pretty either.
Keep an eye on Haiku

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2006, 11:35:48 pm »
That's one of my favorite parts of squidbillys. First is when he makes out with a pumpkin. :laugh2:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2006, 02:57:42 am »
To be honest I didn't know really know what Linux was until a few weeks ago. I'm glad to see some quality competition for MS. I'm getting a masters in educational theory (basically a fancy teaching credential) and I would love to see a form of Linux in the schools. It would be a thumb in in the eye of a huge cooperate monster and the state could always afford free.
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.

You all have the wrong idea.

Linux is free.  Free as in freedom.  Freedom as in you can do whatever the hell you like with it and nobody can stop you.

"Free" has multiple definitions in english.  Spanish/French uses the term "libre" instead, which literally translated means "liberated".

Linux can be sold for money.  Any amount of money you like.  You can stand on the street corner and sell Linux distributions for $1,000,000 a copy if you like.  That's your freedom.  Your customers are free to buy it too, if they wish.  They are also free to download it for no cost.  That is their freedom.

There is plenty of software out there that costs nothing, but it is not "free".  Some people refer to this as "freeware".  But this only refers to its cost, and not your ability to do anything you like with it.  This software is still non-free, as you have limited freedoms.

True free software grants you the freedom to do with the software as you like, use it as you like, manipulate it as you like, copy it for whomever you like, and give it away or sell it in any way you like.  You are given these freedoms with true free software.

"Free software" has nothing to do with cost.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2006, 03:20:08 am »
But freedom always comes at a price.

Just because something comes with restrictions doesn't mean that certain people don't feel more free when they choose to use it. While one person may prefer the freedom of being able to do whatever they want while giving up the structure that comes with rules, others may prefer the freedom of not having to worry about where to find support and lack of accountability.

One simply has to choose which form of freedom they want to yoke themselves with.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2006, 04:03:06 am »
"Free" has multiple definitions in english.
...
True free software grants you the freedom to do with the software as you like, use it as you like, manipulate it as you like, copy it for whomever you like, and give it away or sell it in any way you like.
...
"Free software" has nothing to do with cost.

as the linux folks are fond of saying: free as in "free speech," not free as in "free beer."
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2006, 07:49:49 am »
Not everything that costs no money upfront is free, just something to remember.
Well, I've used Windows and I've played around with Knoppix.

My take (and I might be wrong) on what NightGod is saying would be as follows:

Windows (XP Home SP2 Retail) currently costs about $150.00, depending where you buy it.  Linux currently costs $0 unless you don't look in the right places.

However, I can install Windows and run all the same applications I have used for years.

I can install Linux and while driver support is much better than it used to be, I still may end up having to search the web and support groups (rather than the hardware vendor) for correct drivers.  In extrememe cases I may have to swap components to find hardware that runs under Linux.  I may have to search the web for compatible Linux equivalents of the Windows programs I currently use.  If I can't find equivalent apps, I may have to run WinE (Windows Emulator) to run these programs.  If they don't run under WinE, I might have to run Windows XP as a virtual process (negating the cost savings).

In any case, depending on how much value I place on my time, at some point the value of the time I spend configuring Linux may outweigh my initial cost with Windows.

NOTE:  Before I get flamed by the Linux user crowd - Yes, I realize that I would initially spend as much time configuring Windows as I do Linux, that I could have searched for Linux compatible components to build my system initially, that there usually are equivalent Linux programs to what I use in Windows, and that if I weren't already a long-time Windows user I wouldn't have particular Windows programs that I knew I wanted to use.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2006, 03:02:57 pm »
Oh wait you forgot "(Freedoms just another word for nothing to lose)" Janis Joplin(1969)

On one hand, if I was a computer guy, I bet the flexability of Linux would be awesome.

But if your not real good with computers, the familiars of windows and its compatability is a plus for a  rookie like me :dizzy:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2006, 03:58:00 pm »
Honestly, I'm a "computer guy" and Linux still isn't worth my time. SO many other things I can be doing besides learning a new OS that has such a small market penetration and is generally used by enthusiasts, so the market for support isn't there, since those are exactly the kind of people who do all their own support.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2006, 04:29:21 pm »
replacing windows for general desktop use is different from an "embedded" application, like a file server or a dedicated mame cabinet.

i can attest that a basic installation that runs one application is dead simple to do with linux. my home file server is an existence proof. i'd assume setting up linux to run mame is comparable, but i can't speak from experience.

i haven't yet tried linux as a general-purpose desktop replacement, but i intend to after i buy my next laptop, freeing up my current laptop for experimentation.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2006, 09:10:05 pm »
ya know i dont condone this but :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:bittorrent :blah: :blah: :blah:

lol yea if it is just for mame and wont be on the net...maybe do a search for windows xp lite also...just one mans corrupt opinion.... :applaud: :applaud:

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2006, 03:19:51 am »
I have come across a copy of window thanks to a little help form a very nice person. I love the people at this forum. I think Linux would have frustrated a non computer guy like myself.

I read at (avsforum.com) that Sony and several other big TV makers want to run a form of Linux on their TVs to create a simple internet hook up for the masses.   :o
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2006, 04:21:32 am »
others may prefer the freedom of not having to worry about where to find support and lack of accountability.
No software has accountability.  This is the silliest argument EVER for choosing software.

Read the Microsoft licensing terms.  Microsoft have no accountability for anything their software does EVER.  Same goes for any software on the planet, free or non-free.

By all means, excercise your right to choice.  I am 100% for anyone choosing a software package because THEY want it, and not because they were told to use it (by myself or anyone else).  But in the same breath, please use reasonable criteria.  "Accountability" is a term that does not apply to software in any circumstance ever.  And if you don't believe me, I challenge you to show me a license clause that says otherwise.  I've read quite a few, and still haven't found one.


Honestly, I'm a "computer guy" and Linux still isn't worth my time. SO many other things I can be doing besides learning a new OS that has such a small market penetration and is generally used by enthusiasts, so the market for support isn't there, since those are exactly the kind of people who do all their own support.
You are grossly misinformed.  Linux and GNU software has a massive market share in the server, embedded and internet device markets (larger than all Microsoft products combined).  Don't assume that just because you deal primarily with desktops and low-end corporate setups that there is no other type of setup in the ludicrously large industry that is IT.

Again, by all means excercise your choice to use or not use a product.  But please, do your research before regurgitating the above common misconceptions.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2006, 04:24:36 am by elvis »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2006, 07:32:56 pm »
From the sounds of it Linux seems real flexable and tweakable. I know thare are lots of computer guys as members of this forum.

Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs. They could even sell it (for cheap) to pay for their time. :soapbox:
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2006, 07:46:33 pm »
Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs. They could even sell it (for cheap) to pay for their time.
Someone already has: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56385.0

Linux is pretty cool, but its definately not for a novice.  I tried linux a few years ago, but it doesn't support software I prefer or need to use (including most games) and the ones it does support I'd have to buy the linux versions in order to use them and I'm not going to spend that much money just to use linux.  Windows is the way to go for me.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2006, 04:38:52 am »
"Accountability" is a term that does not apply to software in any circumstance ever.  And if you don't believe me, I challenge you to show me a license clause that says otherwise.  I've read quite a few, and still haven't found one.

You are grossly misinformed.  Linux and GNU software has a massive market share in the server, embedded and internet device markets (larger than all Microsoft products combined).  Don't assume that just because you deal primarily with desktops and low-end corporate setups that there is no other type of setup in the ludicrously large industry that is IT.
I mean accountability for the products you use on the system-while there are some hardware manufacturers who release drivers for Linux, the vast majority still do not. The same goes for software. Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux. When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support? There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.

Yes, because I was obviously talking about the entirety of the IT industry rather than the desktop world that the rest of this thread dealt with-I must have missed the multi-page offshoot where we went into statistics on imbeded controllers and their use in the MAME world. Next you'll be saying that we should investigate running our MAME cabs on AS/400 boxes and using Cisco switches to somehow facilitate swappable control panels. Maybe we could look up statistics to compare MAME usage to other forms of gaming software and manage to maginalize the entire board out of existance.

Or maybe we can stick to the scope that was being discussed in the thread.

But honestly, past experience has taught me that arguing with Linux devotees is as positive an experience as arguing with Mac devotees-all different OSes have their place, much of the time one or two of them will truly shine in one area or the other-the time still has not come where anyone will convince me that Linux's place is on the average user's desktop, however.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2006, 10:12:55 am »
Quote
Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux. When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support? There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.

I'd like to give some praise to Gateway here.  I bought a new Gateway computer from Office Depot, and installed Linux on it.  Ran into a bit of trouble, and used their online support chat function to talk to them.  I explained what I was doing, and they spent the next 30 minutes helping me out.  They mentioned right up front that Linux wasn't "officially" supported, but then they proceeded to help me anyway.  Now, it dual boots into WindowsXP and Linux just fine.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:14:55 am by jwb »
--
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2006, 01:52:50 pm »
Free is when you don't have to pay for nothing or do nothing

-Frank Zappa


From the sounds of it Linux seems real flexable and tweakable.

And that's one benefit that can become one of the problems with it.

Quote
Why hasnt someone come up with a tweaked version of Linux just for MAME cabs.

I'm not sure if Lincade is going this way, but a LiveCD would be great. Put your ROMS on a drive, and boot off the CD. Some of the good LiveCD Linux distributions are near-zero configuration.

-pmc

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2006, 04:16:33 pm »
My cocktail runs linux. Only thing with linux is that if you are not familiar with it and you have a problem with something then you are going to have to jump though some hoops to get it working. If you like fiddling with that sort of thing and have some time to kill then you might find it interesting, if you don't then you'll hate it. Linux might be a bit overwelming as well if you aren't all that familiar computers.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2006, 10:40:38 pm »
For everyone who has never tried Linux (or tried it years ago with no success), it's time to get rid of your preconceived ideas.  Linux has arrived.  Go download www.ubuntu.com or en.opensuse.org/Download and see for yourself.

That said...since the gentleman indicates he is limited in his computer experience and just wants something for his cab, I would recommend the $40 Win2000 install.  There is just too many advantages to using Windows in a cab (front ends, Ultimarc hardware, etc.).  $40 is the right price for the convenience.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 10:43:12 pm by Trenchbroom »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2006, 07:41:50 pm »
... I would recommend the $40 Win2000 install.

Only problem (to some, not everyone) with win2000 is it cannot do multiple mice/lightguns/spinners*.  Win98, winXP, linux, heck even winME: yes; win2000 no.  If you don't care about marble madness, area51, war lords and the like, go for it.


*Note: win2000 can do two spinners if one is X axis, the other Y; three spinners with the correct driver to fix windows Z axis or mame hack.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2006, 02:58:33 am »
I mean accountability for the products you use on the system-while there are some hardware manufacturers who release drivers for Linux, the vast majority still do not.
You obviously don't understand the philosophy of free software.

Free software means you don't have to download drivers.  It means that the source code for drivers are free (free as in freedom to modify and improve) and are handled by the community.  (Note that "community" does not mean "non-commercial".  Many commercial vendors are a part of the Linux community - some notable members are Dell, HP, IBM, Adaptec, Promise, Realtek, etc, etc)

Manufacturers don't release Linux drivers because they don't have to.  They release a free specification of their hardware (free as in no stupid corporate NDA's).  They can either release preliminary drivers or let the community take hold of the development.

In most circumstances, hardware that is reliable and conforms to IEEE and ISO standards will have good free drivers to match.  Most of these drivers are built into the Linux kernel itself, and as such there is no need to download third-party drivers.  In some rare instances companies refuse to open-source their drivers, and make it difficult for GNU/Linux developers to include these drivers freely.  One such example is the Nidia GLX hardware-3D drivers for Xorg.  The Linux community constantly waits on Nvidia to catch up with the rapid evolution of free software.  And despite continual recommendation from the free software community (remembering again that this includes other corporates), Nvidia still do not open source their drivers.

Nvidia are one of a minority, however.  Manufacturers such as Adaptec, HP, Dell, etc freely open their drivers with great success (both in reliability of the software, and sales success as users buy their products).  I can load up my Linux desktop and plug in any HP printer, any Adaptec RAID card, any Realtek ethernet card, or load it up on any SATA motherboard and have full 100% automatic "out of the box" support for my hardware.  Something that Windows won't allow.  In fact, I often need to rely on archaic hardware such as floppy drives to install third-party non-certified drivers for my hardware when installing Windows.  Very annoying.

So again: accountability is not a concern here.  Device manufacturers have the choice of opening the specifications for their hardware (note that this DOES NOT mean they have to give away their hardware secrets - people who argue his don't know what they are talking about).  Doing so lets millions of programmers world wide develop drivers quickly with international auditing, instead of small clunky teams developing driver with minimal audits.

People who are only used to doing things the "windows way" quite often don't understand the concept of open hardware specifications, and likewise struggle to understand the concept of an operating system that doesn't require third-party drivers. 


The same goes for software. Try buying a manufactured PC from most major companies and then calling up to ask for warranty support after you install Linux.
I do frequently.  I use plenty of commercial Linux software with full support.  No complaints here.

Obviously you wouldn't buy Mac software and then try to load it under Windows and complain when the software manufacturer denied your support call.  I've not ever understood people who buy Windows software, load it under Linux via emulation software like WINE, and then complain that they can't get support.  That seems quite obvious to me.  And again, I buy Linux-native software (of which there is plenty), and enjoy the benefits.

When your downloaded free version of Linux install goes tits up, who do you call for support?
The provider.  Companies like RedHat, Ubuntu/Canonical, SuSE/Novell all provide commecial support plans for their distros.  Some even include it for free for the first 30 days (SuSE does this for installation help).

Conversely, for a home user of Microsoft Windows, they are charged exhorbitant fees when they ring Microsoft for telephone helpdesk support.

It sounds to me very much like you've not actually used a commercial Linux distribution.  Is that an incorrect statement to make?  And if so, should you really be offering advise on software you've never used?

There is accountability in things like manufacturer warranties-if nothing else, there is a contract for them to provide support for a set period of time.
Again, plenty of distros provide full commercial support.  And more notably, Microsoft themselves do not offer support by default with their desktop operating systems.  In fact, ringing their helpdesk and asking for support immediately has the support person asking for your credit card details here in Australia.  Scary stuff.

But honestly, past experience has taught me that arguing with Linux devotees is as positive an experience as arguing with Mac devotees-all different OSes have their place, much of the time one or two of them will truly shine in one area or the other-the time still has not come where anyone will convince me that Linux's place is on the average user's desktop, however.
Well, so far I haven't discounted Microsoft Windows.  All I've said is that the fallacies you spew above are not correct, and that Linux has no more or less "accountability" (what a silly term to use in software) than Windows.  Likewise neither one can really be accredited as being "better".  They both do a task, and do it well.  For me, the freedom that comes with Linux is of greater benefit and commercial usefulness to my day-to-day work than Windows.  I can get more accomplished under Linux with less effort and less cost than under Windows.  There's no emotion attached to this statement.  After many years of using many software products, Linux has proven to be the most useful for the least outlay.  This is a purely objective statement based on my personal experience only (and with it, the experience of the thousands of companies I have contracted to over the decades).

As for the average user - I started a project here in Australia that puts Linux on the average user's desktop.  Thus far the project has been met with enormous success (tens of thousands of units shipped in just months - not bad considering our population here, and our single office presence).  We are providing completely functional, internet-ready desktop computers that cost less than a single Windows license.  These include full office suites (100% compatible with Microsoft's office filetypes), graphics editing suites (comparable to Photoshop costing thousands), and countless other desktop applications (far more than I've seen packaged with any other operating system past or present).  All of this software is Linux-native, free for distribution and free of cost.

And who are the purchasors of these desktops?  Well, so far the overwhelming groups have been average folk.  Mum's and Dads, Pensioners, blue collars, white collars, businesses, students, kids and grandparents.  All of them very happy with their very average Linux desktop that does very average tasks on very average hardware.  A great many of them ask before purchasing if they can replace Linux with Windows.  We say "Yes, of course you can - but how about you try Linux out for a few days?".  So far our success rate is well over 95% of people who try it and stick with it.  And of the 5% who do switch to Windows, most do so without trying the software first, and use unlicensed software to do it with.  (I find this rediculous - if you are going to use non-free software, don't steal it for goodness sake!  There are free alternatives available so that you do not have to break the law!!!).

The irony is that if Linux was the default in every business, everyone would use it.  People are scared of change - petrified in fact.  They will do everything at their disposal to avoid it.  Tell your business leaders that they can save millions of dollars per year switching to an alternative OS (any alternative you can think of - there are dozens of other operating systems outside of Windows and Linux), and they'll make up every excuse under the sun not to.  People fear change so much that they'll discount any valid alternative at any cost.  "Better the devil you know" as the saying goes.

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2006, 04:19:11 am »
You win, Linux is the best OS ever, how could I have ever been so blind.

Can we go back to helping the OP pick the OS he needs for optimal MAME performance balanced against minimal setup overhead now?

Actually, scratch that, he's already got a copy of Windows XP now.
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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2006, 05:24:29 am »
You win, Linux is the best OS ever, how could I have ever been so blind.
Oh stop it.  I'm not trying to tell you it's better.  I'm merely suggesting it's not nearly as bad as you think, and that perhaps the information you have at hand might need some updating.  (Shock! horror!  Software changes over time!!!).

Why does there have to be a "win/lose" situation here?  Horses for courses.  Use whatever the hell you like.  Just make sure you make your choices with all the information at hand, and not outdated facts like the above.

My issue is not your choice in software, but your feeding misinformation about certain things to the general public.

And for the record: I don't believe LInux is the "best OS ever".  It has enormous and glaring faults that need mountains of improvement.  Same with every other OS too.  They all stink just as much as each other.  Luckily for all of us, every major OS on the market is a continually evolving work in progress.

Imagine what the world would be like if we were all stuck with PC DOS 1.0, Bell Labs Unix 1.0, and MacOS 1.0?  Ewww....
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 05:28:34 am by elvis »

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Re: Can't afford xp, should I try linux?
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2006, 01:52:01 pm »
They all stink just as much as each other.

Amen.

I will say that the more recent versions of PCLinuxOS and dyne:bolic detect and run all of my hardware perfectly. Everything works properly right from first boot and is otherwise very easy to configure. For application-specific purposes, it can be a great fit and doesn't necessarily require you to get into the arcane aspects of Linux. You can just use it for what it's good for, and pass by when it isn't a fit.

For a new MAME box, I'd consider giving it a shot (and might just do that with my next project).

-pmc