Can't afford xp, should I try linux?

[rackoon]

Well I have all the parts (waiting for VGA card to come) to put together a new computer that will be totaly dedicated to my cab. My cab is half done but I want get the computer all set up before I stick the parts in the cab. Yet I have no OS. I suppose that I was ignorant as to how much windows cost.  No wonder Bill Gates is so freaken rich.
    Anyway, I had bought all the expensive cabinet and computer parts a long time ago when I started this hobby because I knew that I would be broke when I whent back to get my masters. At this point Im kind of poor and all the computers in my house are hand me down macs. So Im looking at linux because I cant afford windows xp.

Anyone out there use linux? Is it easy to use? Will it work well with MAME? I dont know a lot about computers so Im a little scared to try linux. Or should I just save up for windows xp?

[NightGod]

If you are a student, you can get a massive discount on software through your school's book store (assuming you are in the US, I don't know about other countries). This usually ends up making the price as much as 75% off retail, so you likely would want to look into that option.

[thorus]

At WSU every student got a free version of XP pro for personal use.  It wasn't watered down or anything.  Talk with the IT guys and find out if you school is in bed with Microsoft.

[rackoon]

I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.

[rackoon]

They want $199.98 for home edition. Bill Gates is scum
I can get it for $90.00 on ebay.

[SithMaster]

if you own a pc then use the restore disc if its xp.

[JoshuaMiller]

How old are your Macs?  MacMAME works great for me (I don't have it in a cab yet, though)

If all you have are macs, you won't be able to install XP on them anyway, because of differences in system architecture.

If you are building a PC from scratch, you don't have the system restore disk.

I don't use Linux, but buddies of mine who are programmers swear by it (one even works at Microsoft)

Another option might be to use a friend's install disk, windows will allow you to authenticate 3 installations per license.

There is no reason that any sane person should spend $200 on an operating system.

--Joshua--

[gamecreature]

I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.

I weep for the standard of higher education in this country... 

[Animeka]

I attend a satalight of Chapman university. I will look into it right now.

I weep for the standard of higher education in this country... 

Amen to that... Won't be the first rackoon in space that's for sure

Marc

[elvis]

   
Can't afford xp, should I try linux?

I'll go against the grain here (surprise surprise).

Yes, try Linux.

It's free (of cost, and of licensing restrictions).  Even if you don't like it, you've wasted nothing but your time.  Plus modern distros like Ubuntu are ludicrously simple to install.  Anyone who tells you otherwise obviously hasn't used such a distro in a while. 

I was contacted by an 80 year old grandmother not 2 months ago who told me that she successfully installed and configured Ubuntu Linux on her home PC with near zero effort, and was happily chatting to her grandkids over IM and email in under 30 minutes.  If grandma can do it, anyone can do it.

Download Ubuntu here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

Or alternatively have them ship you 5 CDs for free (they cover the shipping at their own expense!):
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

I've recently helped a company here in Australia develop a low-cost PC sales outlet that supplies systems pre-installed with Ubuntu.  The customers range from students to the unemployed and even to businesses wanting to save money on stupidly overexpensive corporate software licensing.

The in-built GUI config wizards for the system, networking, graphics/monitor, etc, etc are all point-and-click simplicity.  Plus the graphically-driven package manager means you can search quickly and easily for over 10,000 software packages (including 2 different MAME builds and 10 different frontends) and never need to go trawling on the internet for software again.  And in 2 mouse clicks, you can synchronise every single piece of software on your system (including MAME, or anything else you've installed) with the latest stable updates.

Give it a go.  It'll only cost you your time to try it out.  And if it all fails miserably, then you can always fall back to a lesser operating system.

[ahofle]

I agree with elvis.  The installs of Linux out there have come a long way and are very easy to setup now.  As a plus you will never have to see another blue screen of death. 

[rackoon]

The macs in my house are being used for normal stuff like writing papers and surfing the net.

The computer I built is a PC.

When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

I dont want to get in trouble with saint again regarding looking for copys of software. But I had this nightmare that in an alterante univers my evil twin had has several friends that had PCs yet they were all dells and the reinstallation disk cant be installed on a  motherboard that doesnt have a matching code (not the product code on envalope) already installed in it. Really strange dream. Must be from watching too much Futurama before I go to bed.

I have seen several places that give $50.00 discounts for student with students IDs yet only for upgrades not OS.

[rackoon]

ubuntu sounds good.  I wonder what emulator will work with it. My computer will never be hocked up to the internet but I could download stuff at my collage library. I suppose I should do some research.  How will microsoft compete against this stuff?

Will ubuntu install on a new hard drive like windows. I have a book on haw to install windows and I am wondering if they are kind of the same process.

[johnperkins21]

When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

He knows what you meant. It is the gross misspelling of the word "satellite" that causes him, and many others, to weep.

satalight ≠ satellite

[rackoon]

Hey, I have a minor in English from Cal State Hayward! 


Ya, your right I cant spell worth sh@#%.

[torez]

I dont want to get in trouble with saint again regarding looking for copys of software. But I had this nightmare that in an alterante univers my evil twin had has several friends that had PCs yet they were all dells and the reinstallation disk cant be installed on a  motherboard that doesnt have a matching code (not the product code on envalope) already installed in it. Really strange dream. Must be from watching too much Futurama before I go to bed.

Dell OEM installation/reinstallation cd checks the bios to verify that the computer is a Dell and then, if it is, you can make a clean install without a registration code (Dell OEM code is used by the cd installation).  With this option, all Windows updates from MS site work without the need for legal (unique) registration number.

Mark

[Boz]

When I said satalight I meant .............Oh, never mind.

He knows what you meant. It is the gross misspelling of the word "satellite" that causes him, and many others, to weep.

satalight ≠ satellite

Oh, but the fun was that he... oh, nevermind! 

Rackoon, if you do a Froogle search for Windows XP, you'll come up with copies that are legit, and extremely reasonable. Most of the vendors will buy Volume Licenses and split off the individual CAL's for resale. Actually, I don't know how legit it is, but you, the consumer aren't necessarily held liable.

http://www.google.com/froogle

If the only thing this PC is gonna do is run your cabinet, what the heck do you need pro for anyway? Unless you are going to have an Active Directory Domain of Mame cabs. 

[Spaz Monkey]

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/linux.htm
http://freshmeat.net/projects/knoppixmame

Check out those two links.

[SteveJ34]

Linux is not that difficult tho I have never operated this platform for MAME.

Another option which noone has mentioned is Windows 2k.

And depending on the hardware you need to support, Win98SE would also be an option which is what I am running in my upright cab.

[AtomSmasher]

If your not in a hurry, then might as well try linux since it's free.  If you absolutely hate it or can't figure it out, then try to track down a copy of windows.  You won't hurt anything by trying to install linux, worst case scenario you have to format the drive and start over.

[NightGod]

I'm totally not a Linux fan, but I'll second the suggestion to give it a try first if you have the time to spare-won't cost you anything but time so you might as well see how it works for you.

[nullb0y]

if linux doesnt work for you id say go for an older version of windows

[RobotronNut]

since you've already bought your components, this will not be an option for you, but for others reading this thread...

if you watch forums like techbargains, slickdeals, anandtech, and fatwallet, you can occasionally find very inexpensive new PCs. for example, i bought a new emachines desktop PC from CompUsa a few months back for $199, including XP home. with the addition of a cheap graphics card with DVI out for my plasma, it makes a great MAME machine, and was less expensive and less work than assembling from components.

[rackoon]

I have a copy of Saints book and he totally passes over windows 2k. He goes from 98 to xp without even mentioning 2k. Whats the deal. Is 98 and 2k the same or is 2k not compatable with MAME?

[Tiger-Heli]

98 and 2K are not the same, but I can't explain all the differences.

98 was a gamer's/home users OS.
NT was a "business" OS and did not support USB (IMS).
2K is based off the NT kernel, but adds USB support and generally works fine for MAME, but maybe not so good for other PC games.
XP is based off the NT kernel, but added most of the gaming support back in.

[lokki]

If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).

Freedos works great

http://www.freedos.org/

[danny_galaga]

They want $199.98 for home edition. Bill Gates is scum
I can get it for $90.00 on ebay.

bill dont work there no more...

[Boz]

If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).
Freedos works great
http://www.freedos.org/

What are you smokin'?!?!?! DOS was a great OS up until that whole mouse thing came along. And yeah, Mame can run on DOS, but why bother. You have to load USB support if you can find the driver for the mobo you are using, and good luck finding audio drivers for any sound card made in, oh, say, the last 10 years. And then recommend some kind of DOS that isn't nearly as ubiquitous and understood as MSDOS (which is free BTW)? Hell you might also recommend that he upgrade to the latest 12-inch EGA computer monitor for his cabinet.

Listen Rackoon, Get DOS if you want. Use Linux if you have way too much free-time on your hands and you were looking to burn it up with *something*. But if you want it to JUST WORK, with concepts that you already know and use well, pick up a copy of Windows somewhere. You can find a copy cheap and this thread has more than enough suggestions for you to make an informed decision on what to do.

There's nothing, absolutely NOTHING, wrong with Windows 2000. Windows XP has slightly better USB device recognition, but that's only because it's newer and there are more devices now. Windows 2000 will leave you with a smaller memory footprint than XP too. PLUS, if you can't find a copy of Windows 2000 *wicked cheap*, I'd be surprised. There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

I don't hate DOS or Linux and I don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about brand loyalty. I use whatever operating system will allow me to get my job done the fastest and the most efficient with the least amount of screwing around.

Lokki, I didn't mean to piss in your punch, but it *drives me crazy* when obviously technical people recommend overly technical solutions for people who are obviously not highly technical. It's a waste of time and it only leads to ample amounts of frustration of the non-technical person.

[RobotronNut]

There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

you have to be careful about service packs. microsoft introduced automatic software updates (and some level of license checking, i think) in one of the Win2K service packs. IIRC you're ok up thru at least SP2.

OTOH, if you don't keep up with service packs and updates, you may have some security vulnerabilities, unless you keep your mame machine off the net or behind a firewall.

[Boz]

you have to be careful about service packs. microsoft introduced automatic software updates (and some level of license checking, i think) in one of the Win2K service packs. IIRC you're ok up thru at least SP2.

OTOH, if you don't keep up with service packs and updates, you may have some security vulnerabilities, unless you keep your mame machine off the net or behind a firewall.

Yup, yup. All good recommendations. I second these motions.

[torez]

Windows NT is 4.0 version
Windows 2000 is 5.0 version
Windows XP is 5.1 version
Windows 2003 Server is 5.2 version
Windows Vista is 6.0 version

If you have a slower computer, definitely install Windows 2000.

Windows 98SE (Second Edition - USB support, not the initial Win98) - not bad, but prone to memory leaks, so you have to restart more often or it will freeze.  Also, important point - Win98 works with max 256 MB of memory, more efficiently with 128 MB.  Adding more ram can actually slow down the computer.

Windows ME - some people didn't like it and still preffered 98, but I had a decent experience with it.  Felt like it was a bit faster than Win98 and had system restore and lots of updated drivers.

Windows 2000 - remember using a beta version of it first.  Very stable for its time.  Still preffered by many today.  Runs well on older laptops and computers.  Better memory management, so you can install up to 4 GB of ram and NTFS system supports files bigger than 4 GB.  Highly recommended for older computers.  RAID, iSCSI and accessibility support.  Less fluff than WinXP.  Can be run stable for long periods of time.

Windows XP - Stable platform (I run it sometimes nonstop month or two without a reboot).  More fluff on desktop, but it can be turned off in preferences to speed it up, so it will basically look like Windows 2000.  Multithreading, improved device support, kernel tweaks, better power management with hibernate, compatibility mode, fast user switching and ClearType for TFT/LCD monitors.  Windows Genuine Advantage checks for valid license, but this can be easily circumvented.

If you need any help with Windows, PM me.

Mark

[DarkBubble]

   
Can't afford xp, should I try linux?

I was contacted by an 80 year old grandmother not 2 months ago who told me that she successfully installed and configured Ubuntu Linux on her home PC with near zero effort, and was happily chatting to her grandkids over IM and email in under 30 minutes.  If grandma can do it, anyone can do it.

Download Ubuntu here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/

They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.

[lokki]

If you are doing this for a CAB. Consider DOS. it is supported by MAME and there are a couple of good Front ends (ArcadeOS comes to mind).
Freedos works great
http://www.freedos.org/

What are you smokin'?!?!?! DOS was a great OS up until that whole mouse thing came along. And yeah, Mame can run on DOS, but why bother. You have to load USB support if you can find the driver for the mobo you are using, and good luck finding audio drivers for any sound card made in, oh, say, the last 10 years. And then recommend some kind of DOS that isn't nearly as ubiquitous and understood as MSDOS (which is free BTW)? Hell you might also recommend that he upgrade to the latest 12-inch EGA computer monitor for his cabinet.

He never mentioned he needed USB.  Or the computer that he was planning on using. Mouse support is not really that hard (Non USB).  I agree that sound is an issue but there are plenty of mobo that work under DOS.
He mentioned he did not have money to buy XP. I would say he should use XP. But given his original request.

There's nothing, absolutely NOTHING, wrong with Windows 2000. Windows XP has slightly better USB device recognition, but that's only because it's newer and there are more devices now. Windows 2000 will leave you with a smaller memory footprint than XP too. PLUS, if you can't find a copy of Windows 2000 *wicked cheap*, I'd be surprised. There's no online activation of Windows 2000 so, theoretically, you could borrow your buddy's copy, install and be done with it. No money out of pocket!

I don't hate DOS or Linux and I don't give a ---Cleveland steamer--- about brand loyalty. I use whatever operating system will allow me to get my job done the fastest and the most efficient with the least amount of screwing around.

Lokki, I didn't mean to piss in your punch, but it *drives me crazy* when obviously technical people recommend overly technical solutions for people who are obviously not highly technical. It's a waste of time and it only leads to ample amounts of frustration of the non-technical person.

Are you implying that Installing and using Linux is easier than installing and using DOS?
Once you have the OS installed you still have to configure MAME (and or other emulators) and configure a front end.

[TOK]

They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.

I messed aroud with Linux (Mandrake) a bit before deciding on using XP with all unnecessary Services shut down.
If you don't learn how to tweak it, it starts and shuts down slower than XP/2000. Using the Black Viper guide, I got my MAME cab booting into MAME in about 22 seconds.

It has mediocre driver support. Nearly all video/sound card companies call it beta and don't offer any tech support beyond basic instructions. Most places you can go for help tell you to read the Docs/FAQs if you have any basic questions, so make sure you read 800 pages of English Docs typed by a non-English speaking person before you ask how to get a USB mouse working.

It doesn't run MAME games any faster than Windows. This was a huge disappointment to learn, and the main reason I considered it, then abandoned it.

If you do want to try an install and experiment with it, the best advice I can offer is to make sure you have ALL of the hardware you plan on using connected to it while you're doing the install. Adding stuff and trying to update drivers after the fact was my greatest stumbling block.

The main front ends are Windows only.

If you're already familiar with Windows, I don't consider it viable to learn just for MAME unless your time has little value. I spent long hours trying to get my machine working with Linux before bagging it. I never got the NVidia video card drivers working properly. If you've grown up with Windows and DOS, you're suddenly going to feel like the annoying relative that knows nothing about computers and asks you all kinds of nonsensical questions.
I got the basic install working rather easily just like Elvis said, but I'm so used to configuring/installing devices in minutes with Windows that the whole experience was a little humbling for me.

My parents are in there 80's and can't comprehend a DVD player let alone a computer, so I'm thinking Elvis' grandma was a bit ahead of the curve. 
 

[Boz]

Are you implying that Installing and using Linux is easier than installing and using DOS?Once you have the OS installed you still have to configure MAME (and or other emulators) and configure a front end.

I don't know how you got that impression from my statement. I was implying that I don't hate operating systems that I don't prefer to use. It was a pre-meditated defense for some people reading and posting to the thread who are *militant* supporters of the operating systems they use. Many (not all) Mac and Linux aficionados, for all their passion, get *nasty* when they hear anything negative about their chosen OS. I wanted to clarify before having to don a fire protection suit.

Lokki, I came off a bit strong and I apologize for my boldness -- it was a bit uncalled for. Rackoon was asking questions like whether or not Mame was supported on Windows 2000 (!?) after he bought Saint's book (!?) as well as a book on how to install Windows (!?). You and I and many others can wade through the complexity of configuring Mame to run on DOS with nearly any hardware. But, people with questions and statements like these will only become frustrated with the process and may give up too early. My goal was to protect Rackoon from what could turn out to be hours and hours of troubleshooting, resulting in him loosing interest and forsaking his project. I can take the "hours and hours", and I know you could too. I think we just have to be mindful of the advice we offer to people who are obviously new. (No insults intended Rackoon).

Rackoon, the process boils down to what you want to spend. You can spend nothing or very little on an OS, but end up spending lots of time learning. Or, you can find the extra cash up front, and spend a lot LESS time configuring. It's a balancing act only you can decide upon.

[RobotronNut]

i don't want to start an OS war, but my limited experience of linux has been very positive. i built an Athlon 64 file server and installed SUSE linux pro 9.2. the installation was quick and simple. the built-in drivers worked great; the only one i had to download was an nvidia gfx driver, which installed easily.

that was my first and only experience with linux, and i have not tried to run mame on it, nor have i changed hardware since the initial install. i was very intimate with unix in a past life, but haven't touched it in 10 yrs, and nothing in the linux install required any unix knowledge.

i paid money for my copy of SUSE linux, but subsequent versions have been released as freeware.

[hanelyp]

They've sent a case of install disks to the office, I've taken two, and have yet to try it out.  Any advantages over XP Pro at all?  I've never used Linux.

Presuming you have administrative priviledge, your control over linux is limited only by your skill and inclination.  Most linux distributions are more secure in default configuration.  On the down side, some of the major linux distributions are worse than XP about starting up umpteen programs you don't need on startup, and linux does take a bit of learning to make full use of.

http://www.knoppix.net/ is promising for trying linux without making a comitment.
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ is a usable complete system with a total absence of bloat, 50MB image.

[lokki]

I did not mean to incite an OS war either. Not really trying to argue to pros or cons of one OS vs another. Just which OS is better suited for an Arcade Cabinet.

Basically what i think you have the following alternatives.

XP/NT 2000 +  
Pros
Support for newer HW
Support for multiple frontends
Tons of emulators
Easy to configure
Con
Expensive

Linux

Pros
Free
HW support is getting better

Cons
Harder to configure
Not many front ends
Not many emulators

DOS

Pros
Really suitable for older HW (all those PIII and sub gig pIV that you can get for $20)
no shutdown (not really true but for most purposes it works)

A few front ends
Tons of old software that plays great on Cabinet

Cons
Hard (or impossble) to get support for newer HW.

[rackoon]

My computer:   All used parts from EBay. Only hard drive and VGA card is new.
 My system will never see the internet. Strictly mame. Every thing will be installed through the CD drive.
 
  P4-2.66
 ECS mother board with on board audio
 ATA 100  60g  hardrive
 kingston ram 512MB 400MHz speed
 ultimarc VGAcard
 memorex cdw drive
 dotronix 27" RGB monitor
  Ipac4
 
  I build furniture out of logs in my spare time and I have built several homes before I went back to school to get my masters. My cocktail cab is half built. Its looking bad ass, diamond plate, 100 black light leds, flickering flame bulb behind logo, oak plywood, track ball on top of table for maximum swing, retro coin door, lots of midway parts, lots of custom art work.
 
  My problem is two fold
  #1 I bought all this stuff before my last kid and I went back to graduate school because I knew I would be dirt poor for the next two years ($1500 per credit ouch!). I'm still trying to save $20.00 more so I can get a GGG spinner when more come out. I never thought that OS would cost that much. All the computers I had in the past had an OS on them already.

#2 I don't know very much about computers. I surf the net and write papers for school on them and that's it. I know windows a bit because "Computers in the class room" was a prerequisite course to get into my masters program. Yet I still haven't burned a CD or downloaded music from the net.  Linux kind of scares me.

I did find windows 2000 for 40 bucks. Not bad. Could be an option yet I will have to wait several months. Crap I cant wait to finish school. Only one year and two weeks left. OOH YEA!

[missioncontrol]

go with windows 2000...

That's what I've used and have had no problems with it. the one thing you will want to do immediately is get the service pack 4 update if you plan on hooking it up to the internet....