joystics and such

[Wicked]

I am ready to build my cab now. I am using an Ultimate 2 cab, slikstik quad blank, and a tornado spinner. I am also going to use ultimarc ipac and vga card (pc-xpress soon as it debuts) the problem is this, I dont know what joystiks or trackball, or lightguns to get. Ive narrowed the joysticks down to the happs perfect 360 and the ultimarc ultra 360. Ive read the forums and cant tell what the consensus is on a light gun or trackball. HELP!!!

[AtomSmasher]

I don't know anything about the 360 joysticks as I used regular 8-ways, but I can shed a little light on the light gun and trackballs.  There seem to be 2 options of the light gun, you can either get an act labs gun or a guncon2.  I've tried the guncon2 and it worked well enough for the most part, the problem is the drivers were still a bit buggy and caused windows to crash every so often.  They might of ironed out the problems by now (it was about 6 months ago that I tried it) and the guncon2 is much cheaper then an actlabs gun, so it might be worth it for you.

If money is no object, then get an act-labs gun.  I haven't been keeping up with whats going on with them, but the little I have read is only good things about it.  Check the hardware reviews section for several topics on it.

As for the trackball, I'm using a Happs 3'' trackball and I love it.  Happs and Ultimarc are the only two major companies I can think of that make them and you can buy them for a good deal from ponyboy or divemaster in the b/s/t forum.  I don't what other info you would want on the trackballs, they're both good so you can't really go wrong either way.

[hypernova]

Trackball-Happ
Lightgun-NOT the LCD (or LED, whichever) TopGuns.  AFAIK, there's still some major problems with getting those things to work correctly.
P360-Excellent sticks.  I have two myself on my 4P panel.  I'd suggest getting some cool new colored shafts from slikstik for those.  Expensive, but totally sweet looking. 

Unless lightguns are your thing, I wouldn't worry about those till the end.  Get everything else up and running.  One step at a time.  Plus, maybe some different types or something will come out in the meantime.  I still haven't gotten mine, and I've been "finished" for awhile now.  (Still got Daphne to tweak.)

And as mentioned, use ponyboy or divemaster.  do NOT go through Happ.  They will rob you blind.

[ahofle]

You will really need to be specific on what you are looking for in a joystick to have someone recommend one to you.  There is really no hands down winner for everything.  For example, if you play a lot of fighters, play shootem ups, or just Sinistar, your 'best' joystick will be different. 
For trackballs, you can't go wrong with Happs 3" IMO, but I haven't really heard anything wrong with Imperial, Ultimarc, or GGG's TBs either. 
Lightguns, there are 3 choices: Guncon2, ActLabs, and LCD TopGun.  Each one has their drawbacks and I would say there isn't a clearly superior lightgun choice either. 

[Wicked]

Thanks guys, I will be going with the happs trackball, and I'll wait for the light guns, I was leaning towards the 360 but the ultimarc has gotten a lot of attention over the last week, so I was wondering if there was a hands down "better" stick between the 2. I'm going to start ordering parts tonite, hopefully I will be done by the first of august. and thanks for the heads up on divemaster and ponyboy, I was leaning toward just ordering the controls complete from slikstik

[leapinlew]

Thanks guys, I will be going with the happs trackball, and I'll wait for the light guns, I was leaning towards the 360 but the ultimarc has gotten a lot of attention over the last week, so I was wondering if there was a hands down "better" stick between the 2. I'm going to start ordering parts tonite, hopefully I will be done by the first of august. and thanks for the heads up on divemaster and ponyboy, I was leaning toward just ordering the controls complete from slikstik

Question - will he want the high lip model of trackball?

Are you mounting this directly in the slikstik with no art above it?

[Wicked]

I was just researching the art part, and i realized i need to do a few more days of legwork, there are so many choices, Im trying to get what works generaly out of the box with mame, but i was just in the BYOAC post and found the marquee site and that wasnt somethin i hadn't considered till i saw how reasonable they are. I think i will be putting art all the way around.

[CheffoJeffo]

I was leaning towards the 360 but the ultimarc has gotten a lot of attention over the last week, so I was wondering if there was a hands down "better" stick between the 2.

Well, the P360 is a (very nice) digital stick and the new Ultimarc is a digitally-mappable analog stick (the distinction is important, so be sure that you understand what the Ultrastik is about) that can also function as a digital stick. Unfortunately, with the relative newness of the Ultrastik 360 (it's been out what, a month?), I doubt that you're going to find a consensus yet.

For trackballs, I like both the Happs 3" and Betson 3". I've used the Happs PS2/USB interface with MAME without problem, although some folks have reported problems with it in the past.

As far as lightguns for PCs, I can't be of much help -- I only have Happs guns.

Cheers.

[Wicked]

Cheffo which guns do you have, and how are they connected to your system?

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo which guns do you have, and how are they connected to your system?

Sorry -- should have been clearer -- I have "real" arcade guns connected to actual games (e.g. original boards).

I have no guns at the moment that interface with a PC ... been waiting for a good, authentic-feeling (no blow-dyers-from-space like ActLabs) solution. One of the few things from Ultracade that I was looking forward to was an arcade gun interface and driver, which sadly never materialized.

Cheers.

[Wicked]

I've read all the post on the act labs guns and no one seems to be happy with them. is there a consensus on the Ultimate II vs. the slikstik cab?

[NightGod]

Trackball-Happ
Lightgun-NOT the LCD (or LED, whichever) TopGuns.  AFAIK, there's still some major problems with getting those things to work correctly.

From what I've been reading, there are not real major issues to work out, just don't use the things with recoil enabled too often, because it tends to beat them up pretty quickly. Plus they work with dual guns and off-screen reload. And $40 each, multi-system compatibility and the ability to work with literally any screen is damn hard to beat.

And the 9mm feel with laser sight is a nice bonus 

[Wicked]

Night I read the post and review on those and it seemed as if they were pretty cool. but then some people cant get them to work at all, i was thinking i wanted something a lil more proven, but the price is very reasonable.

[Wicked]

hey , I was wondering I know that this would be very expensive. Would the Happ usb arcade converter convert their arcade light guns for use with mame?

[leapinlew]

Night I read the post and review on those and it seemed as if they were pretty cool. but then some people cant get them to work at all, i was thinking i wanted something a lil more proven, but the price is very reasonable.

Some people cannot get anything to work at all.

Wicked - it sounds like this industry may not be ready for you yet. Your going to have to learn to accept where it is currently, warts and all - or come back later. There aren't many lightguns to choose from and you'll find negatives with all of them. Building an arcade cabinet is like building a cabinet of compromise.

[Dreamwriter]

For trackballs, don't forget about X-Arcade's 3".  I'm not sure how it compares to the other ones, but I got that one and it works great for me.  I like the fact that it came with a 10 foot cable and 3 buttons already attached, with wiring for 3 more buttons (mapped to the same 3).  The X-Arcade doesn't come with a top plate, however, so you'd have to route out a spot under the CP for it.

[CheffoJeffo]

hey , I was wondering I know that this would be very expensive. Would the Happ usb arcade converter convert their arcade light guns for use with mame?

To my knowledge, there is no driver for using this in MAME, so nope.

Cheers.

[Wicked]

Lew, I realize that its all a compromise, the light guns arent neccesarily a must. I build all my own computers and install car stereos, this is just an ave that I have always wanted to enter. It's overwhelming with info more than what any person would proly imagine, but I'm not one to turn away from anything I want and I dont mind doin any of the legwork, hopefully in the end I will have something to contribute to the community when my cab is done.

[ahofle]

I've read all the post on the act labs guns and no one seems to be happy with them. is there a consensus on the Ultimate II vs. the slikstik cab?

Well, I'm happy with mine...of course I got them back when they were only $39.95.  I think the major negative with them now is the ridiculous price.  They work perfectly (dual guns and all) for me and are accurate when calibrated.  I would be all over the LCD guns, but the distance from the monitor thing is a deal-breaker for me.  Hopefully that is improved in the 2nd generation of those things.

[97thruhiker]

As previously mentioned everyone here will have their own opinion concerning which joystick they prefer.  Since you are going with the quad blank SlikStik (which has a spot for a dedicated 4-way) why are you looking at those particular joysticks?  Do you want to be able to program them?  Do you want a "no click model".  Is there a particular game you want to play (say Qbert or Congo Bongo) that you would need to have a diagonal?  Are you picking them because they are the most expensive / think that makes them the best?  In my humble opinion (take it for whatever its worth) I would go with four Happs Competition Sticks for your four players and an Ultimarc J Stick (sanwa) for the dedicated 4-way.  I love the feel of the Happs Competition Sticks, great price, easy set up, very smooth feeling, good color section, etc.  Same with the J-Stick.  Both of these sticks would do you well unless their is an overriding reason you have narrowed it down to the two mentioned in this thread which if thats the case I can't imagine going wrong with either one.

[CheffoJeffo]

In my humble opinion (take it for whatever its worth) I would go with four Happs Competition Sticks for your four players

This is a good idea (although of the two, I prefer Supers) -- get a reasonably inexpensive, but decent set of 8-way sticks for use in the meantime.

Then, if you want to upgrade in the future you can and won't be out a ton of money (and you can always sell the old sticks ... or save them for your next project).

Cheers.

[Wicked]

The reason I picked the 360's is because they seemed to have garnered a lot of praise and seem to work easily with the majority of mame games and all the posts seem to praise the feel of them. I have looked at some of the other happ and ultramarc sticks, all have varying opinions. since I dont know anything about any of these sticks I informaly decided on the one that had the most consistant opinion. as a newb I am open to all opinions and suggestions (i'm still trying to find a nice 27" multisync monitor) I realy do appreciate all of you guys input on this.

[leapinlew]

The reason I picked the 360's is because they seemed to have garnered a lot of praise and seem to work easily with the majority of mame games and all the posts seem to praise the feel of them. I have looked at some of the other happ and ultramarc sticks, all have varying opinions. since I dont know anything about any of these sticks I informaly decided on the one that had the most consistant opinion. as a newb I am open to all opinions and suggestions (i'm still trying to find a nice 27" multisync monitor) I realy do appreciate all of you guys input on this.

The 360's are indeed good sticks.... that is, depending on what games you plan on playing. And therin lies the problem. What games do you plan on playing? Sinistar? Qbert? To answer the obvious - there is no perfect stick for every game. 

[Wicked]

mostly fighting games and shooters, SFII Samsho, ikari, xmen TMNT, those types.

I just read that games like NFL Blitz require 49 way sticks and some games require analog sticks, is that what the Ultimarc 360 geared towards dual purpose digital, and analog?

[97thruhiker]

As Cheffo said you won't be out much money with either one.  Last time I looked I think Ponyboy had them for $10 - $15 range.   Lizardlick Amusements sells them (just purchased a stick from him and was very happy with the service)

 http://www.lizardlickamusements.com/pages/joysticks.shtml

You could purchase one of these and put it in a temporary box (or your blank control panel if you already have it), hook it up to your computer and give it a try.  If you like it great, if not your only out $15 - $20 with shipping and you could probably get most of that back selling it if you didn't want it.

Look I'm not trying to change your mind.  Go with what you want.  I just went through the same agony when it came to purchasing joysticks for my Mame Cabinet and about gave myself an ulcer trying to decide which stick to use.  I was thinking along the same lines as you (from your original post) about going with the 360.  It recieves high praise and rightfully so from what I understand about.  In the end I just gave the Competitions a try and have not been sorry.  Like I said before to me they have a very nice feel / spring pressure / range of motion.  While I'm not a big fighting game fan the few I play with my friends (street fighter series) feel right.  Good luck and let us here know what you end up with (with your own review).

[97thruhiker]

mostly fighting games and shooters, SFII Samsho, ikari, xmen TMNT, those types.

I just read that games like NFL Blitz require 49 way sticks and some games require analog sticks, is that what the Ultimarc 360 geared towards dual purpose digital, and analog?

Check this site out for a list of games with their controls:

http://fe.donkeyfly.com/controls/gamesbycontrol.php#top

Short of having a monsterous control panel its very difficult to plan a control for every game.  This is where the programable sticks will help you.  I guess you have to decide which games are most important to you.  I'm an early 80's, golden age of the arcade fan so to me the 4-way is my most used \ important stick.  Also, as most people here would probably agree with me, this will not be your last \ only cabinet.  As soon as you are done you will be planning out your next machine.  It's inevitable 

[Wicked]

Thanks 97 actually ive already decided on my next 2 cabs, one will be a dedicated driving cab, the other dedicated to flight games. right now i just have to lock down the majority of what this cab will be best used for.

[Wicked]

I have another ?, do 8 way rotary sticks perform the same as regular 8 ways, and allow you to play the games that call for rotary sticks as well.?

[Dreamwriter]

The big advantage to the Ultrastick 360's is they make a great all-in-one solution - so if you want one stick that will do everything, then that's what you want.  However, they aren't the best joystick for all types  of games - none of the games you mentioned except NFL Blitz have analogue control, and would control better with a true digital 8 or 4 way (unless you *really* like the smooth, no-click feel that the 360's give you).  And as someone said, you are getting a control panel that has places for 5 joysticks, so you should be able to come up with a solution that doesn't require all-in-one sticks.

[destructor]

P360 without modify is crap. You must change stick, spring, strenghten GND and 5V connections on PCB, sometimes straighten diodes inside base on PCB and probably change actuator.  Maybe better buy Ultrastick with restrictors.
For fighters/beatemups I personally use joystick with microswtiches (Sanwa. Seimitsu probably can be better, I wait for LS32 and LS40).
For shmups/shooters/racing I use joystick without microswitches moded P360, but prepare for change it to Ultrastik.
For 4-way games best (for me) are joysticks with diamond restrictor.

No universal joystick for all games.

[Wicked]

After reading the game control list (thanks 97) all the games I would like to play require 8 ways and 8 way rotaries, and 8 way trigger sticks. I think Ill save the triggerstick for the next cab. So i guess it goes back, to a previous ?. Is there an 8 way mechanical rotary that handles reg 8 way games reasonably well?

[leapinlew]

After reading the game control list (thanks 97) all the games I would like to play require 8 ways and 8 way rotaries, and 8 way trigger sticks. I think Ill save the triggerstick for the next cab. So i guess it goes back, to a previous ?. Is there an 8 way mechanical rotary that handles reg 8 way games reasonably well?

I thought you spent hours and hours reading posts? 

[Wicked]

I did Lew, but on that particular subject when I do a search the best I get is a 38% match. There's no realy clear info as far as if they work decent on reg 8 way games. Guess I may have to try em and see.

[leapinlew]

I did Lew, but on that particular subject when I do a search the best I get is a 38% match. There's no realy clear info as far as if they work decent on reg 8 way games. Guess I may have to try em and see.

If it makes you feel any better, I started off with an X-arcade, then Mag-Stik+, and now I'm using Happ Supers. Nothing beats a hands on approach. I can appreciate the research your trying to do, but asking what sticks work "reasonably well" and "decent" is like asking what the best color for t-molding is.

Don't believe me? Order some sticks! 

Good luck and have fun.

[Wicked]

Ok guys, I think I have it all set,  This is the set up so far.

Edit* 1 Ultimarc J-stick

Edit* 2 Happ Competition 8 ways

2 Happ Mechanical rotaries

1 Tornado Spinner

1 Happ 3" illuminated track ball

Edit* Happ pushbuttons with horizontal microswitch

1 Ipac4 + 1 Mini-Pac+ Druins interface to bring it all together on a Slikstik Quad control panel and Ultimate II cab.

A 27" multisync monitor with an Ultimarc AVGA card.

I'm still considering some light guns, either the ACT Labs or the LCD Top Guns, but I think so far this looks to be a good start.  

Opinions...Suggestions...

[CheffoJeffo]

Most people would say no to the Ultimate 4-Way -- it's a sluggish stick.

I prefer the Wico 4-Way, but since it is hard to find, you may want to consider a MsPac/Galaga erplacement stick from Happs:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=50551.0

I'm not a fan of convex buttons, but to each his own.

Cheers.

[u_rebelscum]

hey , I was wondering I know that this would be very expensive. Would the Happ usb arcade converter convert their arcade light guns for use with mame?

What is this "Happ usb arcade converter" being talked about?  I didn't find one for lightguns at the Happ site.  Link?

If it's their USB gaming interface you're talking about, it won't work on arcade lightguns.  (The board will work on mame with trackballs & joysticks.)

To my knowledge, there is no driver for using this in MAME, so nope.

This might be a misleading answer.  There are no "drivers" for using mice, lightgun, joysticks or keyboards in mame, yet they work. 

If there was no driver in windows, it won't work in mame.  But since I don't know what exactly is being talked about, I can't say if there's a driver or not, or if it will work or not.


There might be one product to hook arcade lightguns to the PC: http://r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm.  But no one wants to pay the $160 to test it out, and it's only listed as winME/98 compatable.  [shrug]  Happs used to carry this product, but I haven't been able to find it at their site for years now. 

Happs used to carry a USB trackball interface board from the same company, too.  But it's been missing for about a year also, replaced with their on sensor board interface.

[RayB]

Looks like you're building a frankenpanel.

Have you done a layout yet? Always do a layout before ordering any controls!

Rotaries CAN be used as 8-ways. So you don't need seperate joysticks for those.

[Wicked]

Ok I didn't read well enuff then, I thought those were concave buttons like most machines have. Thanks for the heads up on the ultimate, I couldnt find the SNK ikarii sticks either.

[shardian]

Just curious, but are you getting rotary sticks because you are a diehard ikari warriors fan, or just because you saw a frankenpanel that had them, or have read so much about them you feel you need them. It is easy to get caught up in a whirlwind when you first get into this hobby. Once you set on a design, take a step back and make sure you actually want or need everything.

Question: What is totally sweet about this machine?
Answer: It can play every arcade game ever made!
Question: What is even sweeter than that?
Answer: A machine that looks like a stock arcade machine, and can still play darn neear everything!

Keep that in mind...

Jesse James forgot that basic principal on Monster garage (actually, more likely the producers), and his show went down the crapper.