Best OS for 733MHz system?

[MartyNg]

I found a thread about OSes in use for MAME but it hasn't had a response in over 2 years.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=33

What do you guys think would work best for this lowly system? This cabinet will likely be MAME only. I have a PIII System with a gig of RAM that I was going to use, but it keeps freezing up when Win XP starts.

733 MHz Athlon
128 Meg RAM
GeForce3 Video Card
2 40-GIG Hard drives

[arcadepcnut]

definately dos.

[AtomSmasher]

If win xp is too much for it, then load win 98.  It will definately be able to handle win 98.  I had a 800mhz machine that ran windows xp and it ran mame fine, I couldn't play all the games, but I could play most of them.  You may want to figure out whats causing it to freeze up, although reinstalling windows XP will probably fix your problem.

[MartyNg]

I don't know if DOS would work since I have a SBLive and GeForce3, but I could give it a whirl. I currently have XP Pro on the machine, and that's surprisingly fast (Windows itself...haven't tried MAME on it yet)  It's been a while...could I actually install Win98SE and just not boot into Windows by default? Go right into ArcadeOS perhaps?

[MartyNg]

If win xp is too much for it, then load win 98.  It will definately be able to handle win 98.  I had a 800mhz machine that ran windows xp and it ran mame fine, I couldn't play all the games, but I could play most of them.  You may want to figure out whats causing it to freeze up, although reinstalling windows XP will probably fix your problem.

Unfortunately, I've run out of patience with my freezing machine. I took every non-required component out, and it still freezes after a fresh install of XP. I've swapped the memory out and played with BIOS settings tilI was blue in the face, but it still freezes. I even tried blasting a big fan into the PC in case it was a heat problem...no dice.  Must be something on the motherboard. Too bad...probably would have made a much nicer system than the Athlon, especially with 1 gig of ram!

[SteveJ34]

If you are still game to get this operative, Win98SE should work.

I don't believe it will recognize or make use of 1gb ram as I recall there being some upper limit in Win98 where there is a diminishing return but it is likely not required in this situation anyway.

[arcadepcnut]

dont use the sblive...just get a cheap isa or pci soundblaster. Mame will be faster in dos on a 733mhz machine. I use a 900mhz p3 machine for my vertical classics cab and its weak....it doesnt play but 90% of the vertical games and Im running dos with an arcadevga card...would not even consider 98 on that machine.

But to each his own.

The geforce 3 wont help you much at all in mame....not win98 or dos....its the 2d mame uses....also your dont need dos drivers for a geforce...however the live would need dos drivers hence the recommendation to get another cheap card if you do decide to go with dos.

however windows 98 is easier to setup. If I recall the minimum requirement for XP is 700mhz. Basing off my experience with my P4 3.6 that barely runs XP well (haha)...that 700mhz would be unbearable.

[NightGod]

Unfortunately, I've run out of patience with my freezing machine. I took every non-required component out, and it still freezes after a fresh install of XP. I've swapped the memory out and played with BIOS settings tilI was blue in the face, but it still freezes. I even tried blasting a big fan into the PC in case it was a heat problem...no dice.  Must be something on the motherboard. Too bad...probably would have made a much nicer system than the Athlon, especially with 1 gig of ram!

Sounds like blown capacitors. Check the ones on the board and see if any of them are swollen or burst. Not that you can do much about it beyond buying a new board, but at least you'll know.

[DrewKaree]

If you are still game to get this operative, Win98SE should work.

I don't believe it will recognize or make use of 1gb ram as I recall there being some upper limit in Win98 where there is a diminishing return but it is likely not required in this situation anyway.

512 megs.  Beyond that, not only is there a diminishing return, but it can cause problems up to and including boot issues.

[ahofle]

It's been a while...could I actually install Win98SE and just not boot into Windows by default? Go right into ArcadeOS perhaps?

That's what I would do if I were you -- Win98 SE.  And yes you can boot into the front end...I believe it's in the WIKI somewhere (although it may be XP instructions).

[gamecreature]

I don't know if DOS would work since I have a SBLive and GeForce3, but I could give it a whirl. I currently have XP Pro on the machine, and that's surprisingly fast (Windows itself...haven't tried MAME on it yet)  It's been a while...could I actually install Win98SE and just not boot into Windows by default? Go right into ArcadeOS perhaps?

Sure. I run WindowsME on my cab and go straight to MaLa - never see explorer or the taskbar at all. Just edit the System.ini file - replace "explorer.exe" with your FE. Make sure everything you need is in your windows directory, however.

[pointdablame]

Sure. I run WindowsME on my cab

poor guy.

[pointdablame]

dont use the sblive...just get a cheap isa or pci soundblaster. Mame will be faster in dos on a 733mhz machine. I use a 900mhz p3 machine for my vertical classics cab and its weak....it doesnt play but 90% of the vertical games and Im running dos with an arcadevga card...would not even consider 98 on that machine.

But to each his own.

The geforce 3 wont help you much at all in mame....not win98 or dos....its the 2d mame uses....also your dont need dos drivers for a geforce...however the live would need dos drivers hence the recommendation to get another cheap card if you do decide to go with dos.

however windows 98 is easier to setup. If I recall the minimum requirement for XP is 700mhz. Basing off my experience with my P4 3.6 that barely runs XP well (haha)...that 700mhz would be unbearable.

not to start a big debate here, but there's some bad info in here.

if you can't run vertical classics on your 900mhz P3 its because you are using too new a version of MAME, or you are doing something entirely wrong.  I've had XP and MAME .55 running on a 900mhz Athlon for over a year now and it works like a champ.

Also, tha 733mhz would be a good candidate for a stripped down install of XP if you can get some more ram into it.  128mb won't do it IMHO, not even with a stripped install.  If you jumped to 256, or hopefully 512, you'd be fine.  I've run stripped XP installs on ~600mhz machines and they work fine.

And I know the "cant run XP on my 3.6ghz is a joke, but just the fact that you make the joke tells me you're setup has some flaws or you just dislike Windows.  XP is a very good OS, and despite people's usually blind views toward the fact, it scales fairly well with some tweaking.

Just throwing out my .02 here so as not to make MartyNg think he's stuck with DOS only as a choice.  You can run XP on a system like that if you wanted, as long as you do some tweaking to the install.  98SE is also a good choice, and i'd personally go that route before I went the DOS route.

DOS MAME installs are not necessary for any computers over 500mhz IMHO.

[hnugz]

i run win2k on my 866 machine.  I believe it has less min requirements than xp and is more stable than win98.

[tk_42_1]

It's gotta be a problem with the MB.  My main Arcade system right now is an old IBM T20 Thinkpad (PIII 733 Mhz, 256 Ram) running Mame .105/Latest Zsnes/Latest Fusion/Z26 with stripped down XP on it (Thank you WIKI!!!!) and it runs great at least for the older games.  if you go and try MSH vs Capcom or anything like that the sound is not the greatest but all the SNES/Genesis games my wife and I love to play run great (I am 153-2 against her in Dr Mario, but who is keeping score.  )

I got a hold of an old PIII 900 Mhz system with 512 mem and it ran like a dog (98SE or XP installed.)  All the ZSNES games ran slow and even older versions on MAME (~.86) ran horribly. Did some research on the Internet and found that the PCChips MB that was in it was not the greatest thing around.

[MartyNg]

It's gotta be a problem with the MB.  My main Arcade system right now is an old IBM T20 Thinkpad (PIII 733 Mhz, 256 Ram) running Mame .105/Latest Zsnes/Latest Fusion/Z26 with stripped down XP on it (Thank you WIKI!!!!) and it runs great at least for the older games

Is that "Thank you WIKI" in response to the stripping down of XP by reading the BYOAC wiki? I searched through there and didn't see anything. How can I strip down XP? I forgot to mention that this needs to be hooked up to my wireless network, so from a hardware perspective, WinXP is probably beneficial.

[DrewKaree]

How can I strip down XP?

www.msfn.org

[arcadepcnut]

dont use the sblive...just get a cheap isa or pci soundblaster. Mame will be faster in dos on a 733mhz machine. I use a 900mhz p3 machine for my vertical classics cab and its weak....it doesnt play but 90% of the vertical games and Im running dos with an arcadevga card...would not even consider 98 on that machine.

But to each his own.

The geforce 3 wont help you much at all in mame....not win98 or dos....its the 2d mame uses....also your dont need dos drivers for a geforce...however the live would need dos drivers hence the recommendation to get another cheap card if you do decide to go with dos.

however windows 98 is easier to setup. If I recall the minimum requirement for XP is 700mhz. Basing off my experience with my P4 3.6 that barely runs XP well (haha)...that 700mhz would be unbearable.

not to start a big debate here, but there's some bad info in here.

if you can't run vertical classics on your 900mhz P3 its because you are using too new a version of MAME, or you are doing something entirely wrong.  I've had XP and MAME .55 running on a 900mhz Athlon for over a year now and it works like a champ.

Also, tha 733mhz would be a good candidate for a stripped down install of XP if you can get some more ram into it.  128mb won't do it IMHO, not even with a stripped install.  If you jumped to 256, or hopefully 512, you'd be fine.  I've run stripped XP installs on ~600mhz machines and they work fine.

And I know the "cant run XP on my 3.6ghz is a joke, but just the fact that you make the joke tells me you're setup has some flaws or you just dislike Windows.  XP is a very good OS, and despite people's usually blind views toward the fact, it scales fairly well with some tweaking.

Just throwing out my .02 here so as not to make MartyNg think he's stuck with DOS only as a choice.  You can run XP on a system like that if you wanted, as long as you do some tweaking to the install.  98SE is also a good choice, and i'd personally go that route before I went the DOS route.

DOS MAME installs are not necessary for any computers over 500mhz IMHO.

I personally refuse to run an OLD outdated version of mame just to be able to run XP on my machine which in my opinion gives you absolutely nothing over dos. I am telling him my experience with dos as I see it. He asked. I dont really care how well a stripped down XP runs for you. I update mame whenever a new version comes out because of more games and bug fixes. I would not be happy with windows XP stripped down and a pre 1.00 version of mame. if that floats your boat. I am also not happy with frameskipping. So all you dos haters cram it. I didnt say my machine wouldnt run CLASSICS! I said it would only run about 90% of all VERTICAL games...including raiden and others. So my machine performs very well for what it is....and its running dos. It would not perform that well with windows98 which I installed first and was not happy and went back to dos.
My joke with windows xp is not that my 3.6 cant run it...the joke was it doesnt perform as well as a unix machine for example or a 3.6 running windows 98SE. also my joke was intended to convey that windows XP should fly on a 3.6 but it doesnt cause its a bloated os. I upgraded from a 3.2 to a 3.6 and saw absolutely no difference. You can say that my 1 gig ram is not enough or there is another problem with my machine configuration....but here is my credentials. I have my MCSE and A+ compTIA certification so I know how to configure machines....my joke being that every os has needed more ram and bigger processors to do the same tasks.

So your saying my dos horizontal machine running a AMD XP 2200 is not necessary?!...but it runs killer instinct rather well and Im on the latest version of mame. I can safely say my two dos mame machines run better the way I have them configured with dos than windows98 or stripped XP. They are dedicated cabs....no need for a gui os in my opinion!

I was trying to help the guy out.  He can install whatever he chooses. When I said "definately dos" I should have added "I recommend dos"...so people dont get bent out of shape. In fact there has been many posts and I am the ONLY one suggesting he look at dos.

I was not trying to start an Xbox / ps2 is better type of war.

forget I said anything. Next time Im debating whether I should post an answer to help someone out with my opinion I'll keep it to myself. thank you for saving me some time.

[RayB]

I too vote for DOS, but you could also get away with Windows Command Line version.

Just make sure it's version 0.78 or older. You get better performance going back to older versions.

Going through Windows will remove some sound configuration headaches, as well as mouse headaches. But let it be said my system specs are similar to yours (original poster):

1ghz AMD board
256 mb RAM
ArcadeVGA
SB Live

Booting straight to DOS
Running MAME 0.78 for everything but the Vector games (0.55 for those)

[MartyNg]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone. I value all of the opinions and didn't mean to start a battle. In time, I will probably try several different operating systems. This will tell me what I'm up against for pros and cons.

Perhaps I'll keep my eyes open for a cheap Mobo+CPU+processor combo. It looks like adding PC100 memory would almost cost as much as a new mobo+cpu+memory! Crazy! 

[DrewKaree]

Arcadepcnut, running low on Midol?

[pointdablame]

Arcadepcnut, running low on Midol?

for real...

Damn dude, take it down a notch or two.  I was just giving my opinions the same as you.  And congrats on teh certifications, i'm super proud of ya.

And you should at least TRY older versions of MAME just so you can see the differences.  I'm not denying there are newer games or bugfixes, and I'm a big advocate of running up to date software... but with MAME, it's just not necessary.

[arcadepcnut]

That you Drew for your useless response. If I was CRAMPING I'd understand your response....but since Im passionate about the hobby your response is totally inappropriate and shows your mentality and adds absoltutely nothing to the thread.

Pointdablame:
You specifically attacked and targeted me. Not gave your opinions.
Also to address you in your last response.
There is no need in my opinion to use older copies of mame unless there are a few games in specific you are interested in and want to research what version they run best under.

you wont see me in this thread anylonger....so reply however childish you both wish.

[DaveMMR]

Arcadepcnut doesn't like XP - duly noted.

[emerica]

733 MHz Athlon
128 Meg RAM
GeForce3 Video Card
2 40-GIG Hard drives

I pretty much have the same comp in cab (Athlon 750 and a 192 Meg of ram) and I went with the dos and arcadeOS route.  I'm running mame .104 and most games run at full speed. I would recommend using dos for that setup. I think there is a boot cd that will install dos 7 for you and setup mame and arcadeOS. I think it was called Frugals CD or something to that effect.

[Lilwolf]

NOTE:  If a game doesn't need it... none of this matters.  So XP - Dos - Linux wont matter for 85% of the games.

Then there will be about 5%-10% of the games that will change from unplayable to playable once you optimize the crap out of everything.  Best case - decent/worse case. 

So we are really only talking about a few games here.... Make sure you care about them before spending too much time.

Pure DOS will give you a decent jump in fps.  This will give you the best performance... IF you aren't using any hardware stretching...

If you need hardware stretching... Then you will need a windows version.

98 will run the DOS and W32 versions of mame so its a great place to start.  Plus a ton of people have 5+ license laying around.  Plus you get a full range of frontends to use.  Its minuses - slowest of the boots...

XP wasn't designed for a machine that slow.   Yes you can get it to work.  No it wont be as fast... And no it wont effect most games... But again, a few more will be playable if you go DOS or 98SE.  But it will outboot 98 and give you more frontend options then DOS... and it will use hwstretching or d3d.

Now pure DOS - if you can use it, its great.  but the limits are left / right.  No USB support, No uploading of data to most keyboard encoders, No to most frontends, No to lots of things... But for the actual mame games... it should be best.   

As for using older versions of MAME... everyone should have a frontend that allows more then one version of mame.  There are 3 main versions to consider... v36, v55 and then current...  Each has a major speed decrease...  And if you want to play a game that wont run on your system on the latest build, trying it on 55, if so great... if not, try it on 36.  But you should try to use the latest version whenever possible... But don't discount older versions when necessary...  Running MKII on v55 is better then not running it at all (or at 10fps).... assuming you like MKII of course

Don't forget about windows being able to play other emulators!

[pointdablame]

As for using older versions of MAME... everyone should have a frontend that allows more then one version of mame.  There are 3 main versions to consider... v36, v55 and then current...  Each has a major speed decrease...  And if you want to play a game that wont run on your system on the latest build, trying it on 55, if so great... if not, try it on 36.  But you should try to use the latest version whenever possible... But don't discount older versions when necessary...  Running MKII on v55 is better then not running it at all (or at 10fps).... assuming you like MKII of course

Don't forget about windows being able to play other emulators!

Careful, you may be directly insulting arcadepcnut with that comment. 

[DrewKaree]

That you Drew for your useless response. If I was CRAMPING I'd understand your response....but since Im passionate about the hobby your response is totally inappropriate and shows your mentality and adds absoltutely nothing to the thread.

you wont see me in this thread anylonger....so reply however childish you both wish.

I think I'm supposed to reply with "I know you are, but what am I?"

I now feel so terribly chastised.  I don't know how I'll EVER overcome the shame of being told my response was useless , inappropriate, and meaningless.

Oh, I've got it!  I'll make MORE responses like that, and in several areas!

That was a close one there

In case you aren't picking up what I'm putting down, I'm quite sure that PDB and myself aren't the only ones at you being beyond womanly sensitivity.

[MartyNg]

While we're discussing this, I'll throw another question in the mix.

With 2 40-gig hard drives, would it make sense to use 1 HD for roms only, and leave the other HD for the OS? This way, I think I would be able to change the OS without losing all of my roms and stuff. Would there be a performance difference with MAME not being on the same drive as the OS?

How would this play in with different OSes? What file system would I want to use on the "MAME drive"?

[Harry Potter]

I run my MAME cab with all the roms a RW DVD. Yeah access speed isn't too great especially for the bigger l33t gam3zor ROMS but I don't really care if the rom takes 3 seconds or 13 seconds to load.

Updating ROMS is much easier that way. 

[pointdablame]

While we're discussing this, I'll throw another question in the mix.

With 2 40-gig hard drives, would it make sense to use 1 HD for roms only, and leave the other HD for the OS? This way, I think I would be able to change the OS without losing all of my roms and stuff. Would there be a performance difference with MAME not being on the same drive as the OS?

How would this play in with different OSes? What file system would I want to use on the "MAME drive"?

It'd work just fine.  There shouldn't be any performance hits at all if you ask me.

I'd stick to FAT32 if you want to use multiple OSes as NTFS would limit you.  Unless you'd plan to start with XP and only UPGRADE your OS from that point on, in which case, NTFS would be fine.

[nostrebor]

Useful:

NOTE:  If a game doesn't need it... none of this matters.  So XP - Dos - Linux wont matter for 85% of the games.

Then there will be about 5%-10% of the games that will change from unplayable to playable once you optimize the crap out of everything.  Best case - decent/worse case. 

So we are really only talking about a few games here.... Make sure you care about them before spending too much time.

Pure DOS will give you a decent jump in fps.  This will give you the best performance... IF you aren't using any hardware stretching...

If you need hardware stretching... Then you will need a windows version.

98 will run the DOS and W32 versions of mame so its a great place to start.  Plus a ton of people have 5+ license laying around.  Plus you get a full range of frontends to use.  Its minuses - slowest of the boots...

XP wasn't designed for a machine that slow.   Yes you can get it to work.  No it wont be as fast... And no it wont effect most games... But again, a few more will be playable if you go DOS or 98SE.  But it will outboot 98 and give you more frontend options then DOS... and it will use hwstretching or d3d.

Now pure DOS - if you can use it, its great.  but the limits are left / right.  No USB support, No uploading of data to most keyboard encoders, No to most frontends, No to lots of things... But for the actual mame games... it should be best.   

As for using older versions of MAME... everyone should have a frontend that allows more then one version of mame.  There are 3 main versions to consider... v36, v55 and then current...  Each has a major speed decrease...  And if you want to play a game that wont run on your system on the latest build, trying it on 55, if so great... if not, try it on 36.  But you should try to use the latest version whenever possible... But don't discount older versions when necessary...  Running MKII on v55 is better then not running it at all (or at 10fps).... assuming you like MKII of course

Don't forget about windows being able to play other emulators!

Not Useful:

That you Drew for your useless response. If I was CRAMPING I'd understand your response....but since Im passionate about the hobby your response is totally inappropriate and shows your mentality and adds absoltutely nothing to the thread.

Pointdablame:
You specifically attacked and targeted me. Not gave your opinions.
Also to address you in your last response.
There is no need in my opinion to use older copies of mame unless there are a few games in specific you are interested in and want to research what version they run best under.

you wont see me in this thread anylonger....so reply however childish you both wish.

Arcadepcnut,

Seriously? Opinions are like ---uvulas---. You have yours, PDB has his, Ray has his. Don't get soooooo bent out of shape if we don't swallow your pill outright. Just give your opinion and move along. Responding the way you have, even if justified (not saying it is), just makes you the bad guy.

[nostrebor]

Huh. ***holes doesn't get the censorship?

And now for my opinion...

DOS: Fastest boot, *can be* least obtrusive visually. HARDEST to setup. Least amount of good documentation to help through the issues. Frustrating at times, especially for the layman. Free OS. Most limited hardware and software choices.

98: Slowest boot. Hardest to hide. Easy to setup. Good documentation. Cheap/free to implement.

XP: Fast boot. Pretty easy to hide. Good documentation. More horsepower needed, harder to get licenses free, so MOST expensive. Best software and hardware choices/support.

With some level of skill, dollars, and time, *any* one of these OS choices will work on your system.

[Zakk]

I have an honorary A+ degree in 'observational gynecologism hygenics'.  So -I- say you should run a mook system.  Configure it for mook, and mook away!

And if you're feeling all sensitive, well it's because you're a mook.

I know this because of my certification.  Zakk (MFNC)   A+OGH

[MartyNg]

I think I'm going to try Win98SE to start and see how the performance is. Thanks again to everyone that shared some useful thoughts!   

[JackTucky]

but here is my credentials. I have my MCSE and A+ compTIA certification so I know how to configure machines

Give the guy a break.  some people go to school for months before getting that kind of cert to hang on the wall.

Jacktucky

[Harry Potter]

but here is my credentials. I have my MCSE and A+ compTIA certification so I know how to configure machines

Give the guy a break.  some people go to school for months before getting that kind of cert to hang on the wall.

Jacktucky

I've been building PCs for friends and several businesses for several years now without ANY certification and no problems so far.

My question is: Will I go to jail for performing unqualified PC assembly thingies? (Time to make a run for it  )

[DrewKaree]

but here is my credentials. I have my MCSE and A+ compTIA certification so I know how to configure machines

Give the guy a break.  some people go to school for months before getting that kind of cert to hang on the wall.

Jacktucky

I've been building PCs for friends and several businesses for several years now without ANY certification and no problems so far.

My question is: Will I go to jail for performing unqualified PC assembly thingies? (Time to make a run for it  )

I have reported you to the proper authorities, but since I've gotta house you for a night and you might have hard feelings over this, I hereby swear not to press charges if you don't tell on me either.  I ain'ts gots me no serf-ticifica-shunz neever.

[krick]

If you are still game to get this operative, Win98SE should work.

I don't believe it will recognize or make use of 1gb ram as I recall there being some upper limit in Win98 where there is a diminishing return but it is likely not required in this situation anyway.

512 megs.  Beyond that, not only is there a diminishing return, but it can cause problems up to and including boot issues.

I'm using 1GB of memory with my 98SE MAME machine with no problems.  I installed the Unofficial Windows 98SE Service Pack and it includes a fix for the "more than 512M" problem.  Note that 1GB is the highest you can reasonably go with this fix.  After that, you have to resort to changing windows settings so that it cannot see the entire available memory and that defeats the whole purpose of having more memory.

Here's a link to the Unofficial Windows 98SE Service Pack...
http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

[MartyNg]

How's this for stable--I installed Win98SE with NO additional software. I set up a shared folder, and started copying my mame roms from a WinXP machine on my network. After it copies about a gig, I get a blue screen. EVERY time. I've had to reboot about 6 times so far, getting a little further each time. A few more days of reboots, and I'll have all of my roms over there! (Perhaps I should just burn some DVDs, but I hate to waste media!)

I tried the unoffiical service pack Krick mentioned, but it still crashes. Oh well.