Author Topic: New Product (In Stock/Shipping) - Apache Controls Blackhawk Push/Pull Spinner (Read 17181 times)

apachecontrols · « **on:** June 30, 2006, 03:02:38 am »

Hi all,

As promised, Apache Controls is now open for business!

www.apachecontrols.com

All items are in stock and ready to ship.

Team Apache has focused on creating the world's greatest spinner with industry leading Push/Pull technology. Later this year, look for other new and exciting product offerings to be announced!

Welcome to the future of spinner technology!

The Apache Controls Blackhawk Push/Pull Spinner

To learn more about this flagship offering, click on our Product Datasheet http://www.apachecontrols.com/manuals/ApacheControlsBlackhawk.pdf.

In addition, the team at Retroblast! is finishing a detailed product review of the Blackhawk Spinner and will publish this report on their website soon, so stay tuned to www.retroblast.com

As always, we welcome customer questions and feedback.

support@apachecontrols.com

Thank you.

AC

Apache Controls, LLC
Honeoye Falls, NY (USA)

ONLINE: www.apachecontrols.com
EMAIL: support@apachecontrols.com

mahuti · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2006, 08:23:20 am »

Team Mahuti would like to extend, with deepest cordiality, its widest range of fine congratulations to Team Apache for the timely launch of this industry leading flagship offering.

</corp>

Seriously though, I'm interested in a few of the features, but I'm too lazy to read the 15 page datasheet. As a part of my non-customer, yet marketing-oriented feedback, I'd suggest *bullet points*

Havok · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2006, 08:30:46 am »

A bit pricey, but just may be worth it.

<Havok waiting for Retroblast review with much anticipation>

KevSteele · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2006, 09:32:35 am »

The review was delayed a few days because my main system required a reformat/reinstall (never a fun thing!), but I'm working on the review today and this weekend, and will have it ready by Monday at the very latest.*

BTW, the spinner is very cool. (I'll post a more detailed opinion in the review.

)

Kevin

*(as long as my system doesn't crash again...sigh...)

hypernova · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2006, 05:01:46 pm »

Too lazy to scrounge for the pertinent information, so...

What's the difference between primary and secondary versions?

KevSteele · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2006, 05:32:10 pm »

Primary has a populated USB encoder board. Secondary has a "bare-bones" board without anything other than the optics and hookups -- you'll need an spinner/trackball encoder board.

Kevin

Orclord · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2006, 07:12:53 pm »

"Retrogaming Media Mogul in Training"

Love the Tag.......

Bout time you got off ya lazy fat Yank arse and done a review.....

kiddk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2006, 10:47:27 pm »

love the spinner but a bit pricey. I thought you may be comparable to a tornado.

KevSteele · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2006, 10:52:08 pm »

Orc,

I've been a bit busy getting up to speed on this whole "publishing" thing, but I'll still make a "special guest appearance" on RetroBlast here and there.

Kiddk,

Don't forget this is an "up/down" spinner - there's more functionality. Unfortunately, the best thing to compare it to, Oscar Control's DOT spinner, is no longer available.

It's definitely not for the bargain-hunter, but it is an amazing piece of engineering...

Kevin

RayB · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2006, 01:39:20 pm »

The price tag makes me cry.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2006, 04:55:38 pm »

Actually, the price isnt bad at all for such a device. A "used" Discs of Tron spinner sells on ebay for well over that price... And that doesnt even have an encoder unit.

Im most concered over the low resolution of the encoder

If it were higher, I might be looking to snag one.

The original DOT encoder has a much higher resolution, and will work great with nearly any game. This looks way too low to use well and accurately enough with many games sadly..

apachecontrols · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2006, 05:21:40 pm »

Hi all,

Thanks to Kevin at Retroblast! for the video pre-view which now available.

Everyone be sure to check it out at www.retroblast.com

To address the specific resolution question...

Don't let the number of teeth fool you. This is simply not the case here.

The Blackhawk is extremely accurate and plays very well in all game situations.

Design and engineering analysis was done to ensure that very fact.

This is a product that will not disappoint.

AC

Apache Controls, LLC
Honeoye Falls, NY (USA)

ONLINE: www.apachecontrols.com
EMAIL: support@apachecontrols.com

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2006, 08:49:49 pm »

Apachecontrols,

I actually grew up near your homebase. (in avon) Cool to you guys make this stuff so
close to home (now rochester), and from a familiar town.

Really, Im not saying that its gong to be bad for all games.. but, realize that DOTs encoder
has something like 128 teeth per full rotation. So 32 clicks per quarter of a turn.

That translates to much finer control in the games that need it.

Basically, any game will control smoothly and accurately with any size encoder, however, you
will have to turn the knob 2 or even 4 times as many turns to achieve the same results. OR, you can uses mames settings what are equivilent to adding more steps per click. (But if you do.. then you get a sort of choppy feel to it)

leapinlew · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2006, 02:56:41 am »

Quote from: apachecontrols on July 01, 2006, 05:21:40 pm

The Blackhawk is extremely accurate and plays very well in all game situations.

Well then - my ears just perked up...

Thats quite a claim!

Animeka · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2006, 11:37:28 pm »

Just ordered one. I'll post feedback here once I've tried it... They've been very helpful, great communication via email.

Marc

patrickl · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2006, 04:34:04 am »

The encoder wheel looks way too course yeah. How can you claim that the number of teeth won't effect the resolution (and hence playability)? There doesn't seem to be any gearing either. It could be an optical (as in CCD) sensor, but I seriously doubt that.

Maybe it's just my pet thing, but I like Arkanoid and a spinner should be able to play that.

KevSteele · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:48:31 am »

I don't know if this will help, but I've played Tempest, Arkanoid, and Discs of Tron extensively with the Blackhawk, and have seen NO backspin at all.

I can force backspin by ramping up the sensitivity settings in MAME, but at the default MAME settings there is absolutely no backspin and the controller works beautifully.

This spinner gives you a feeling of precision that I've thoroughly enjoyed. I'm going to hate to have to give this spinner away...

Kevin

Havok · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2006, 09:46:43 am »

One thing I think that really has raised the bar here is the documentation. I am extremely impressed that a complete assembly\installation \troubleshooting document accompanies this. I think I will start saving my pennies for this one...

So, what's next on your plate?

(Please say Star Wars Yoke...)

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2006, 10:24:36 am »

Kev, backspin happens when an encoder is TOO sensative
for the game you are playing.. so no, it doesnt help.

In this case, its a matter of not having as Much sensativity as the
original controller.

Dot uses an encoder that is huge.. same as in Tempest, 720, and a
bunch others. There are about 176 spokes?.. which translates to
about 44 spokes registered for just a QUARTER turn of the spinner knob!

As far as I can see.. Apache's encoder is only 48 spokes per revolution,
thus 12 clicks register per quarter turn of the knob.

So... youd have to turn the apache over 3 full revolutions to equal one
revolution of the larger tempest encoder.

What does this mean?

When using a lower resultion encoder: you turn the dial a full revolution
and it will barely move the character in the game.

To correct that, you can turn up mames values to compensate... BUT

All that really does is make each sensed click into two or more clicks...
So.. instead of 44 clicks per revloition.. you get 88.

Sounds good? But its not. Because you didnt really turn it two click worth.
This means your control will be less accurate. The character
may visibly "jump" or "skip".. (as thats what its doing)

The larger encoders are much better for very presice control.. but,
many people have expressed wanting smaller footprint with spinners..
so these spinner people have opted for smaller encoders.

However, the new breed of spinners boast a seriously impressive
amount of resolution. These use a very different type of Opto sensor and
micro printed discs. They are however, very expensive.

For a games of DOT, maybe nobody will care that much. (tho the
game really does need a lot of accuracy) But for a game like Tempest...
you would notice it even more. And Arkanoid.. thats way out of the
question.

According to the way Arkanoid used a geared mechanism.. I think the
encoder spun something like over 420 clicks per one turn of the knob!

Anything less that half of that.. and Arkanoid plays too sloppy, and is
too hard to controll well enough to be able to get far.

Meaning, if you had an arkanoid controller, you might actually beat 2 or
more levels in a row without losing any balls at all. Otherwise, be prepared
for much fusteration..

KevSteele · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2006, 12:23:05 pm »

Xiaou2,

All I can say is that I had the best games of Tempest I've ever played using this spinner. The control was great, and it felt wonderfully precise. I never felt I was out of control and the spinner stopped where I wanted it to no matter how quickly I snapped the spinner back and forth.

As far as Arkanoid - I didn't notice any problems, but I have to confess I suck at Arkanoid. Always have, always will. I'm probably not the best person to judge how precise the spinner was in that game, although I didn't feel I sucked any worse than normal.

DOT was a joy with this spinner, obviously...

Kevin

Havok · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2006, 02:02:01 pm »

Hey Kev,

How does this compare to the GGG spinner, which seems to be the highest resolution spinner available today?

KevSteele · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2006, 02:11:03 pm »

Unfortunately, I haven't tested the GGG spinner myself (after some of the fights I've gotten into with Randy, I felt it best to have someone else do that review!), so I don't have any insight into how they compare side-by-side.

The review's almost finished - should be up on RetroBlast later today.

Kevin

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2006, 02:17:01 pm »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 03, 2006, 10:24:36 am

Dot uses an encoder that is huge.. same as in Tempest, 720, and a
bunch others. There are about 176 spokes?.. which translates to
about 44 spokes registered for just a QUARTER turn of the spinner knob!

As far as I can see.. Apache's encoder is only 48 spokes per revolution,
thus 12 clicks register per quarter turn of the knob.

So... youd have to turn the apache over 3 full revolutions to equal one
revolution of the larger tempest encoder.

...

To correct that, you can turn up mames values to compensate... BUT

All that really does is make each sensed click into two or more clicks...
So.. instead of 44 clicks per revloition.. you get 88.

...

According to the way Arkanoid used a geared mechanism.. I think the
encoder spun something like over 420 clicks per one turn of the knob!
...

Xiaou2,

Be careful on the teeth vs clicks numbers.

I'm not sure about the other games, but I know '720.

The original controller had a 72 tooth encoder, and the game saw 144 'clicks' per rotation. (If I hacked a mouse on to the same controller, mame would see 288 'clicks' per rotation due to the increase in technology.)

Basically, there were 1x, 2x and (now) 4x 'clicks' per number of teeth. So you can't just go by number of teeth. For comparison, the 48 tooth BlackHawk generates (AFAIK) 192 (4x48) 'clicks' per rotation, while the '720 controller generated 144 (2*72). So even though it has less teeth than '720, the BlackHawk has a "higher resolution" than the original '720 controller. (Not that you could play '720 with it, but that's another issue; what's nice is '720 is one of the few games that one rotation of controller = one rotation in game, so it's very easy to compare dial resolutions in software.)

Most old games (centipede, marble madness, tempest, ect) only did 1x. Super Sprint, '720 and other late '80s were 2x. All PC hardware that still use encoder wheels are 4x.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2006, 03:22:52 pm »

btw, using 'standard' optics (ie, one of those optics you used to be able to get from Oscar... and I'll stop there because they are all I got)...

could they use those high definition optic wheels? IE, if we just got twice as many 'ticks' wouldn't that allow us to double the resolution. Sure I know there is a time where it coudln't tell the difference... but are we already at that stage?

KevSteele · « **Reply #24 on:** July 03, 2006, 03:56:34 pm »

Review is posted on RetroBlast.com!

http://retroblast.com/reviews/apache-070106-01.html

Kremmit · « **Reply #25 on:** July 03, 2006, 06:45:10 pm »

Re: Number of teeth on original encoder wheels: (this is a cut-n-paste from an older post of mine)

DOT spinner (original) has 128 teeth.
The Oscar DOT replica only has 72 teeth, same as Blasteroids, Tempest, Oscar Vortex, and the 720 joystick.
The Pole Position wheel has 24 teeth, with the gearing you get just shy of 4 revolutions of the encoder per turn of the wheel, for somewhere around 80 teeth actually passing through the optics per one turn of the steering wheel.

Arkanoid is the special one. The knob attaches to shaft #1, which has a 72 tooth gear on it. That gear turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #2. Shaft #2 also has a 72 tooth gear on it, which then turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #3. Shaft #3 also has the encoder wheel on it, which has 24 teeth.

So, shaft 2 spins 4.5 times for every turn of shaft 1. Shaft 3 spins 4.5 turns for every turn of shaft 2. 4.5 squared is 20.25 turns of the encoder for every turn of the knob, which is 486 teeth per revolution of the spinner knob!!

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:25:41 pm »

All I can say is that I had the best games of Tempest I've ever played using this spinner. The control was great, and it felt wonderfully precise. I never felt I was out of control and the spinner stopped where I wanted it to no matter how quickly I snapped the spinner back and forth.

--
Kev - what you are decribing are physical attributes. Not
actual sensor related feedback... nor precision accuracy.

Basically, you are saying.. "This car drives great",
but can not really understand and explain why.

Mechanically, the thing is built very well. There looks
to be no space between the shaft and bearings.. thus no
'play' or wobble. This means good spin time, smoother
control, better accuracy.
--

As far as Arkanoid - I didn't notice any problems, but I have to confess I suck at Arkanoid. Always have, always will.

--

Well Kev, one of the main reason why you suck at
arkanoid is the actual controller. Arkanoids superior
resolution isnt comparale to any spinner out there.

Even the new high res encoder on that one spinner isnt
quite as good - as it doesnt have the physical resistence
from the gearing to provide a bit more ability to remain
"motionless" when stopped and to keep you from
"overshooting" your desired position.

If you could get hold of a real arkanoid controller,
I would love to see your comparison between any
other spinner out there. As I believe you might
better understand whats taking place as well as
actually notice the enhanced control attributes.

---

Be careful on the teeth vs clicks numbers.

I'm not sure about the other games, but I know '720.

The original controller had a 72 tooth encoder, and the game saw 144 'clicks' per rotation. (If I hacked a mouse on to the same controller, mame would see 288 'clicks' per rotation due to the increase in technology.)

Basically, there were 1x, 2x and (now) 4x 'clicks' per number of teeth. So you can't just go by number of teeth. For comparison, the 48 tooth BlackHawk generates (AFAIK) 192 (4x48) 'clicks' per rotation, while the '720 controller generated 144 (2*72). So even though it has less teeth than '720, the BlackHawk has a "higher resolution" than the original '720 controller. (Not that you could play '720 with it, but that's another issue; what's nice is '720 is one of the few games that one rotation of controller = one rotation in game, so it's very easy to compare dial resolutions in software.)

Most old games (centipede, marble madness, tempest, ect) only did 1x. Super Sprint, '720 and other late '80s were 2x. All PC hardware that still use encoder wheels are 4x.

-

Hi Robin,

I understand what you are saying. But do remember that just
as the game itself may see twice the number of clicks per
tooth.. AND mouse sensors may increase that further..
Mame itself is set up in such a way to reduce that to compensate
for everything.

So, a supersprint wheels 2x for sensing hooked up to a modern optic.. which is now reporting 4x per click.. will be 8x,

BUT.. mame (i believe) will reduce this in such a way that the
input will be almost exactly like the arcades input. Thus
reducing the clicks back to 2x.

Even when increasing the settings in mame, it never seems to
be enough for certain games. This has to do with the
encoder wheel resolution. For Mame is trying to be
accurate with the conversion of optics rather than creating
a faked value to allow better control for low resolution encoders.

And even if mame did allow that, it wouldnt really make the
game more controlable. It would just make it more bearable...
As the accuracy is "faked" rather than actual. (skipped values -vs- smooth one-by-one values)

Btw - Im wondering if what you mean by 4x per click with new
optics has to do with "internal Mouse acceleration formulas" rather than per tooth info?

Also, I believe there are some arcade games that used dual optics to be able to capture even more resoltion.. by being able to see in-between states of a tooth? Im not so sure todays Mice do
this.. as Ive only noticed one set of optics per axis...?

---

Kremmit, thanks for the numbers.

Havok · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2006, 10:14:48 am »

The review was nice, but what I would really like to see is an in-depth comparison of this spinner, the TurboTwist and Tornado...

Patent Doc · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2006, 11:22:53 am »

Kev

I sent you an e-mail on retroblast, but wasn't sure if you might see this first. Anyway, it seemed from your review that your only complaint, albeit a minor one, was the grinding when pulling or pushing and spinning as well as the added resistance due to the microswitch. Have you tried/considered using the Rollie Electronics leaf switch in place of the microswitch. This switch should work as it is designed to replace microswitches. Anyway, I'd be curious to see if you complaints stand upon making the switch.

Patent Doc

KevSteele · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2006, 11:56:35 am »

I don't know if the rollie switches would:

a. even fit in the space allotted
b. make any difference with the grinding.

Basically, it's the discs spinning while in contact with something (i.e., the switch) that causes the grinding.

There are microswitches with "roller" levers on the top, and one of those might work out nicely. I'd have to dig around the vendors and see what's available.

Havok · « **Reply #30 on:** July 05, 2006, 02:13:21 pm »

Quote from: KevSteele on July 05, 2006, 11:56:35 am

There are microswitches with "roller" levers on the top, and one of those might work out nicely. I'd have to dig around the vendors and see what's available.

That's a great idea - I think I have some of these lying around. Now I just need to determine if I really want the DOT feature, or just go with a TurboTwist...

crashwg · « **Reply #31 on:** July 05, 2006, 06:45:58 pm »

So Kev... Did I win it yet?

apachecontrols · « **Reply #32 on:** July 05, 2006, 07:50:57 pm »

Hi all,

In terms of microswitches...

The microswithes do make contact with the spindle top and botton on push and pull, so naturally that contact will continue if a player turns the knob at the same time when pushing or pulling. This is a rare case indeed, and does not inhibit game play, and in nearly all situations is not even noticeable.

With that said, our team tried a variety of concepts early on to determine the final implementation.

In the end, a series of decisions had to be made which kept in mind several key factors (1) Overall Quality (2) Gameplay/Responsiveness (3) Easy of Assembly/Manufacturing (4) Footprint Size and (4) Cost

Yes, we tried the roller switches. Turns out they are much more expensive than the regular ones, and made just as much noise if not more than the non-roller switch. Go figure.

Leaf switches were also considered, but they added higher cost, increased the overall footprint of the unit, and were much harder to obtain if people needed to swap parts out down the road. The Blackhawk uses standard size microswitches so it makes it much more flexible from a support perspective.

It is certainly feasible to add additional electronic components to the unit, and have a switch-less (proximity sensing) device in its place. This would eliminate any potential friction between components. While this was considered during the prototype phase of the Blackhawk, it was not chosen due to Cost and Assembly considerations.

In terms of the tooth count...

Original testing was done using a higher frequency count, and in the end 48 teeth was chosen due to the overall responsiveness on nearly all of the core games available for a spinner. Tempest, Discs of Tron and any other games all play exceptional with the Blackhawk. With that said, it isn't fair to compare this unit with a gear driven one from days gone past, they are two different animals. (Arkanoid for example). This game does work well with some slight adjustment on the sensitivity settings in software, but it won't compare with a gear spinner.

Listen to what customers who have already purchased their units will say as I am sure they will have feedback for the group to review.

This is a solid unit that is great fun to play...really it is!

AC

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #33 on:** July 06, 2006, 07:04:57 am »

Yes, I agree you can not Compare this to a geared spineer.. However,

"Tempest, Discs of Tron and any other games all play exceptional with the Blackhawk"

Is only an opinion.

When in fact, they would play even better with higher resolutions.

All the said games listed have a considerably higher tooth count comparitively.

I considered the fact that in DO.Tron that you may push up or down, then turn it..
but actully, I believe I have turned and pressed/pulled at the same time in that
game.

I believe the steel wheel'd Roller Micros would be a better choice even If they are
louder. Reaon being is that typical micros have soft plastic actuators which will
file down very quickly from the friction of a high speed spinning metal disc.

Im sure people could mod this themselves.. Just pointing out that it would have
been a better choice even if it added to the costs.

Timoe · « **Reply #34 on:** July 06, 2006, 07:57:45 am »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 06, 2006, 07:04:57 am

Yes, I agree you can not Compare this to a geared spineer.. However,

"Tempest, Discs of Tron and any other games all play exceptional with the Blackhawk"

Is only an opinion.

When in fact, they would play even better with higher resolutions.

All the said games listed have a considerably higher tooth count comparitively.

I considered the fact that in DO.Tron that you may push up or down, then turn it..
but actully, I believe I have turned and pressed/pulled at the same time in that
game.

I believe the steel wheel'd Roller Micros would be a better choice even If they are
louder. Reaon being is that typical micros have soft plastic actuators which will
file down very quickly from the friction of a high speed spinning metal disc.

Im sure people could mod this themselves.. Just pointing out that it would have
been a better choice even if it added to the costs.

Xia0,

I am looking forward to your product offering, if you do not already offer a full line of elite arcade product. I imagine from your posts that your products would be better than anyone else.

KevSteele · « **Reply #35 on:** July 06, 2006, 08:05:13 am »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 06, 2006, 07:04:57 am

"Tempest, Discs of Tron and any other games all play exceptional with the Blackhawk"

Is only an opinion.

When in fact, they would play even better with higher resolutions.

Which is also an opinion. An informed opinion, but still just speculation.

Tempest plays exceptionally well with the Blackhawk in my opinion.

YOMV (Your Opinion May Vary)

Kevin

Havok · « **Reply #36 on:** July 06, 2006, 08:33:03 am »

I for one, do not like the Arkanoid spinner (gasp!) - my friend has it on his cab, and I find that I prefer a non-geared one myself...

2600 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 06, 2006, 08:40:48 am »

FYI and to add information to Kremmit and u_rebelscum's post,

DOT does not use quadrature and looks to be 1x from the schematic. So, even though it has the second largest tooth count, one should be able to play this "arcade accurate" with a 32 tooth encoder using a standard optical interface, i.e. mouse, opti-pac, opti-wiz.

A 36 tooth encoder seems to be the magic number for the 72 tooth encoders, Atari, etc IF all they did was 1x and 2x.

I doubt Arkanoid is using anything more then 1x on it's 486 tooth count.

RandyT · « **Reply #38 on:** July 06, 2006, 11:58:27 am »

Quote from: 2600 on July 06, 2006, 08:40:48 am

I doubt Arkanoid is using anything more then 1x on it's 486 tooth count.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I believe there were about 176 possible positions for the paddle. This would mean, with 1x on an original Arkanoid spinner, one would need to turn the knob roughly 132 degrees to move the paddle from one side of the screen to the other. I seem to recall that particular game having much finer control, meaning a shorter range of movement (~65 degrees?) which would put it 2x. If someone listening has an original, please measure this for us

And when engaging in a discussion about resolution and spinner controls, the topic of analog paddle games, which can require even higher resolution than Arkanoid to be playable at a decent level, should probably at least be brushed up against.

RandyT

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 06, 2006, 01:06:01 pm »

Quote from: 2600 on July 06, 2006, 08:40:48 am

FYI and to add information to Kremmit and u_rebelscum's post,

DOT does not use quadrature and looks to be 1x from the schematic. So, even though it has the second largest tooth count, one should be able to play this "arcade accurate" with a 32 tooth encoder using a standard optical interface, i.e. mouse, opti-pac, opti-wiz.

A 36 tooth encoder seems to be the magic number for the 72 tooth encoders, Atari, etc IF all they did was 1x and 2x.

I doubt Arkanoid is using anything more then 1x on it's 486 tooth count.

You just dont get it...

Mame is most likely set up in such a way as to REDUCE counts. To compensate for the new
Optic counts of today. Otherwise, they inputs would be too powerfull and Nothing would control right.
(backspin on every game)

Also, you are basically saying that if you had your choice to have 32 precise steps to go from
point A to point B.. youd rather take 5 monster leaps! That is a Lack of control!

Quite simply, while you CAN get away with less encoder teeth by adjusting mames settings...
it will be like taking 5 steps at a time rather than one at a time. This creates a 'jumpy' effect. Its not
as precise. Even if its not visible, it will be effectively causing a loss of control.

Its BETTER to use a very high number of teeth, and Lower mames settings. In that way, you are
matching the games imput precisely. You will get a much finer ability to control the characters in
most games. The characters will move smoother too.

This isnt opinion, its Fact. More teeth = finer control.

Btw, Why do you think it uses 1X? Because that gives even more count to add up. Thats one
step at a time.. rahter than 10 steps per click. This translates to serious amount of control range.
Notice that on DOT, the spinner runs the Pointer in a HUGE ring arround all sides of the Play-Box. Thats a lot of ground to cover.. and yet to hit Sark at such a distance, you need very good precision.

If you are content with your pointer skipping every 5th pixel, or having to turn the knob 3times more than should be needed.. then thats your perogative.

And Timoe, you may be right.. as IF I could get a product in place, it just might be the best...
because I wouldnt cut corners and put gameplay control functionality "underneath"
a few dollars more in costs. Of Course, not everyone cares about the best.. they may desire
less footprint, lower cost..etc. Still, if one is educated in what makes something better,
it may in fact drive things in a better direction. Esp with all the competetion

My comments are not complaint slams.. they are a mere revealing of the truths. Oppurtunity for improovement, and suggestions for it. Its called Constructive Criticism.

Let me give the positives so as not to seem 98% negative:

- The only DOT spinner in production
- Spins smoother and longer than the original (less friction in the design)
- Great Knob! Best one available acutally. (imop)
- Built Very durrable. (with exception to the switches)


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