Best First Person Shooter Controller

[Ahigh]

I've been looking into first person shooters recently, and I wanted to build the ideal first-person shooter arcade controls set up.

I know a lot of you are coin-op and/or mame centric.  Is there an existing design from a member here that is considered ideal for fps gaming?

I was thinking Happ 49-way for character movement (instead of asdw) but maybe perfect 360 would be better?

I'm not sure what would replace the mouse.  My intuition says Happ 3" translucent trackball with a led setup.  But how would you fire?  Button on the move joystick?  I guess you can get used to anything.  Donkey Kong felt weird at first on the left hand, and nintendo has a reputation for ignoring "standard controls."  Following isn't the idea I have on this either.

It would also be great to actually design around an existing nice keyboard so that the keyboard was integrated.  Those blue-lit saitek keyboard might merge well with led's in other areas.

These are all pretty lame and basic ideas, and I know some people on here are really talented to make mame controllers, I just wanted to offer up this question and see what kind of responses I get.

I hope all you guys are doing well, and sorry for not keeping up lately.  I've been busy with the move now for weeks, and we're not done yet as we haven't sold the house (calif house market slowing).

--
- Ahigh

[AtomSmasher]

They brought Half-life 2 to the arcades a while ago, they used 2 joysticks and 2 pedals.  Heres a thread from a while back about it: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=46496.0

Personally I think a joystick, trackball and 2 pedals would work best, but I would use a smaller trackball (maybe 2'') so that your hand can still reach some buttons.

[Lilwolf]

I play BF2 a LOT - I would go...

throttle, then a mouse, then an analog flight joystick, then a WASD setup with extra buttons around it (similar to the cyber sniper keyboard).

I don't think you will ever get better then a mouse + keyboard myself... and a mouse works well on a control panel...  Trackballs suck... and analog joysticks suck for aiming...   And the throttle+joystick is for when you jump into a helicopter.

Now I also have hot swap control panels... so I would only use it for bf2 and similar games.  But I would NEVER play an arcade game on the control panel (other then flight games that is) 

[ahofle]

Personally I think the problem is that there are no arcade controls that are suitable.  Hell there aren't even any PC controllers that make FPS play better than mouse+keyboard IMO.  FPS games require a vast amount of keys and standard arcade buttons are simply spaced too far apart to work.  If you use a standard arcade joystick, then you have to move your hand from the joystick any time you need to press a button.  That is unless you use a flight stick with 8 or so buttons on it (but I don't know of any arcade sticks like that).  Also, there isn't a good arcade quality optical replacement for the mouse that I know of that preserves the 3 mouse buttons for firing/alt-firing (trackballs take up too much space to have buttons right next to them that can be reached with the trackball hand).  The only way I could see it being done properly is to actually design and build your own 'arcade' controls that are suitable. 

Just 2 cents from a guy who's been playing FPS games since Doom, heh.

[brack]

It has been in my mind for a while now to build a cockpit style machine with a couple of analog joysticks with a pair of buttons on each.  The left one could control forward/backword movement as well as strafing, while the right one could control up/down aim and left/right turret.  Modular controls could also quickly convert it into a driving or flight machine as well.  I doubt I will get to it anytime soon, if not ever. 

[AtomSmasher]

I agree that currently the mouse and keyboard work best for FPS games, but slapping a mouse and keyboard into a cockpit just wouldn't make sense to me.  It wouldn't feel like an arcade game, it would feel like sitting down to play on my computer.  If you use joysticks, then you'll definately need to have buttons on the joystick, otherwise you couldn't fire and move at the same time.  They probably did their homework when they built the HL2 cabs, so you should take a close look and see exactly how they did it.

[tetsu96]

I suppose it's what you're used to and such...  but I bet a dual analog flight sticks would work well if the game can be configured as such.  The 2 joystick playstyle of most console FPS titles is something that you get used to after a while, and if the sticks had a HUD control each, that's 8 potential "buttons" not withstanding the trigger / missle buttons.  I bet the analog joysticks would be good once you get used to them, something like people who swear by trackballs instead of mouse(s).

[jelwell]

Maybe too obvious. But try playing a FPS on your PC with various PC controls before you decide.

It helps if the FPS allows auto-aiming. I play Unreal Tournament with Auto Aim turned on and I can just use 2 joysticks and few buttons. The trackball doesn't hurt when Autoaim is off but my trackball is so big that it makes it difficult to use that hand for anything else.

It doesn't help that most arcade joysticks don't have buttons on them.
Joseph Elwell.

[NoOne=NBA=]

The trick is not so much in making it playable, as in being able to play it at a competitive level.
Atari's War used very simple controls (analog triggerstick, movement/jump buttons), but all the players were similarly handicapped.
In the FPS world, you will be playing against people that are using a mouse/keyboard combo.
Limiting your controls, or using something less than optimal, will give them a great advantage over you.

If I had to design an FPS controller, my start would be a PC trackball, and an add-on style 10-key controller.
If the design was a cockpit style, as mentioned earlier, a Nostromo controller might not be a bad start either.
True arcade controls just aren't designed to play FPS games at any serious level of competition.

[StormGiant]

Interesting topic.  I know hardware controller designers have been trying to come up with something that works better than M+K since FPS became true 3D.  PS and Xbox controllers just aren't the same, and auto-aiming is considered by many if not most to be cheating.

The Space Orb is no longer made but was a good try.  When I tested it the shortcoming seemed to be aiming speed, which I believe would be the problem with using an analog joystick or trackball to aim as well.  www.planethardware.com/spaceorb/

MS Dual Strike also tried to be a 3D FPS controller with mixed results.

One key design component must be that the player's hands never have to move from the controller, which is an advantage with PS/Xbox thumbstick.

I would love to see FPS games come to cabs with a decent setup.  Perhaps the 2 analog joystick setup like they showed for Half-Life 2 arcade would work if the aiming joystick was hypersensitive.

[Dizzle]

I've got old Dreamcast controller that was supposed to work "well" with FPS's.  It's a console with a flight-stick on the right side complete with an assortment of buttons (including a trigger) and hat switches, and an illuminated trackball on the left side.  The trackball is around 2" and has somewhat curved buttons shaped around it.  Mouse and trackball it isn't, but it felt like it might work for FPS's (although I'd probably reverse the control scheme myself).  Alas, I never had a chance to play anything but Starlancer with it.

I've actually been trying to figure out what to do with the thing lately, but if remember correctly, the unit got pretty good reviews.

[infiniteomega]

I used to be very proficient in first person shooters with a trackball.  So, I'd say, a trackball, with some smaller buttons positioned around the edge of the ball for your thumb to activate without having to move your hand off of the trackball (aiming and shooting at the same time is key  ) , and then having a set of buttons for movement and other keys.  I would think that this would work pretty well, but who knows.

[ahofle]

The Space Orb is no longer made but was a good try.  When I tested it the shortcoming seemed to be aiming speed, which I believe would be the problem with using an analog joystick or trackball to aim as well.  www.planethardware.com/spaceorb/

Ah yes, that was a great controller (but still not good enough for FPS games as you said).  It was PERFECT for playing Descent 3!

If we are talking about making your own controls for this, I think a small trackball with mini buttons around it would be a good start.  Or maybe even a custom optical joystick (with flightstick type buttons) that has a large degree of movement.  The left hand would either be a bunch of very small buttons, or another flight stick with a lot of buttons.

[Quarters]

The only way I can see this working would be to use a cockpit cab and use foot switches and a flightstick to make up for the lack of buttons.

IMO trackball with buttons will never = a mouse. I alway use the mouse scroll to switch weapons.

I would love to tap down with my foot for jump and up for crouch. the orther foot could do weapon selection.

[Ahigh]

The Space Orb is no longer made but was a good try.  When I tested it the shortcoming seemed to be aiming speed, which I believe would be the problem with using an analog joystick or trackball to aim as well.  www.planethardware.com/spaceorb/

Ah yes, that was a great controller (but still not good enough for FPS games as you said).  It was PERFECT for playing Descent 3!

If we are talking about making your own controls for this, I think a small trackball with mini buttons around it would be a good start.  Or maybe even a custom optical joystick (with flightstick type buttons) that has a large degree of movement.  The left hand would either be a bunch of very small buttons, or another flight stick with a lot of buttons.

What would the arrangements of buttons be around the trackball?  Clearance etc taken into consideration to make it work.  I like the idea of Happ buttons and cherry switches around a Happ 3" trackball for firing, but I'm having a hard time imagining the firing action being easy to do at the same time as movement.  I really think the firing does need to activated with some button not near the trackball.

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- Ahigh

[ahofle]

Well I was thinking the trackball would have to be very small to be able to use buttons with the same hand.  Like a PC trackball or something.  I don't think a 3" Happs TB and Happs buttons would be small enough.  Something like this:

Kensington TB

Otherwise, you're right -- you'd have to use something else for firing.

[97thruhiker]

Has anyone ever used one of these?

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=2071&pcount=&Product_Id=157024

I always look at it when at the store but have always been hesitant to buy it.

[ahofle]

I would buy it, but the keys on it are the cheapest pieces of garbage I've ever seen.  The demo model's keys always stick and are hard to push.  The Dpad feels very cheap too.  Would've been a great controller if it wasn't crap. Products like this just boggle my mind -- they make a controller custom tailored to gamers to replace a keyboard, and then use keyboard keys 10 times worse than any keyboard on the market lol.

[AtomSmasher]

Has anyone ever used one of these?

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=2071&pcount=&Product_Id=157024

I always look at it when at the store but have always been hesitant to buy it.

I've been using them for years now (at least 5 years, maybe more), first the nostromo n50 and then the n52.  In all these years neither one has broke and both still work great.  It does take a little while to get used to, but once you do its awesome.  I know I'll never go back to playing games on the keyboard.

[alexandro98]

Love my Nostromo!
Bought mine back when i was deep into DAoC (Thats Dark Ages Of Camelot, you know a MMO "Before" WoW)
I my n50 never broke, even tho i wore off the paint and numbers off, and eventually bought a n52 and so far not a single problem.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Has anyone ever used one of these?

I've got an N50, but never could get used to it.

I play FPS games with the mouse in my left hand, and a 10-key in my right.
That provides the best feel to me, as I use a 10-key by touch, and the buttons are aligned "properly", rather than staggered.

The Nostromo devices are left hand only, and I just couldn't get used to mouse right, despite using mouse right for work, 8-10 hours a day.
Doom and Descent had a large impact on my play-style, and I used a joystick on the left for those.
When the mouse driven games began coming out, it felt much more natural to me to keep the mouse in my left hand.
I AM left-handed, which may have a large impact on that as well--although my Dad plays mouse left as well, and is right-handed.
That may be my fault for introducing him to all those games, using my pre-set player profile though.

[escher]

Has anyone ever used one of these?

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=2071&pcount=&Product_Id=157024

I always look at it when at the store but have always been hesitant to buy it.

I had an n50, and sold it quite quickly.  I don't know if my hands aren't proportionally average or what, but it was easily the most uncomfortable thing I've ever used.

[Kremmit]

If you do build around an arcade trackball, definately buy some of GroogyGameGear's Trackball Boosters for it.  My biggest complaint with Arcade trackballs as Windows mice is that the resolution is too low, so you have to roll the ball too far for the desired amount of movement.  The boosters are upgraded, higher-res encoder wheels that will fit Happ, Betson, and Wico trackballs (I dunno about Ultimarc or others) and the improvement is definately noticeable.

I'd also consider a 2.5 inch ball instead of the 3 inch, if you're planning on hitting buttons with the same hand that's on the trackball- shorter reach that way.

[Jazzbo]

Another n50 fan here.  Haven't really gotten into the n52 so much but if they would put a real mousewheel on the n50, whoooooo hoo!

Someone did a cab where they hacked up a Logitech MarbleMouse optical trackball.  This is a trackball that can go toe-to-toe with a mouse in FPS play and it can be hacked right out of its housing altogether so buttons (full-size, even) could be placed almost right up where they would be on the real unit.  Someone did a cocktail cab with these and it didn't look terrible.  You need to expose a lot of the ball though.

I never got into using the mousebuttons to fire anyway, so I have no idea what the impact would be on that.  I've always used mine for forward/back.