Author Topic: MOD: Suzo Universal Inductive (Read 30697 times)

kowal · « **on:** May 12, 2006, 03:58:28 pm »

Suzo Inductive Controler this splendid joystick to shumps and fighter 2D. I am careful that it is better from P360. Problem this joystick this horrid stick. It he was it been possible was however to alter. The original stick has on end the characteristic alloy of metal. I thought that it is necessary to joystick he acted correctly. Not it gave oneself to take off him. I decided to make from stainless steel usual handles. After their eying joystick recorded diagonals bad. I found however potentiometers in PCB. It it was it been possible was for their help to adjust joystick both on axises X and Y. It will give to enlarge or to reduce him tenderness. I regulated him almost 2h. And it was successful me. It acts perfect on usual handles from stainless steel.

horseboy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2006, 04:54:26 pm »

OMG. I see that he put a balltop on the otherwise butt-ugly suzo inductive stick. That is all i know, though. We really need someone to step up and learn Polish really quick.

Grasshopper · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2006, 06:45:44 pm »

So just to clarify, are you basically saying that the magnetic ring at the end of the standard shaft is not needed as long as you adjust the potentiometers to compensate?

If you are then that's an awesome discovery but it does beg one question. Why on earth did Suzo fit the magnet in the first place? Presumably it must add significantly to the cost of production. Is there any downside to using the joystick without the magnet?

Also, would you be interested in selling some of those custom shafts you've had made?

ChadTower · « **Reply #3 on:** May 12, 2006, 06:59:37 pm »

He reduced tenderness on his shaft.

RetroJames · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2006, 08:57:57 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on May 12, 2006, 06:59:37 pm

He reduced tenderness on his shaft.

horseboy · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2006, 09:03:18 pm »

Quote

He reduced tenderness on his shaft.

Level42 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2006, 04:14:18 am »

Mmmm, instead of making fun of Kowal's English (did you read his signature ?) I'd be more interested of WHAT he is trying to say, rather then HOW.
I'm from Holland and English is not my native language so I must screw up sometimes as well, but please don't let's scare people away of sharing information just because of the language barrier.

If you use just a bit more than the usual braincells you are used to use, you will understand what he's saying:

1) (most important) The Suzo Inductive is one hellofa joystick and better than the p360
2) he doesn't like the looks of the original shaft (for me, it's a bit like sex: looks are nice, but what you FEEL counts

So I'm perfectly happy with the originals personaly

3) It's possible to replace the original shaft with another one WITHOUT using the magnetic material (it's not a magnet itself) that is originaly on the end of the shaft
4) you need to tweak the pots to make it work

Since I'm perfectly happy with the original shaft, I've thought about replacing it only once and discarded it right away because of the magnetic ring problem.
What you'd expect you need to do to get this work is reduce the diameter of the end of the replacement shaft. You'll need the tools and skill to do this.
Then you can TRY to remove the magnet ring from the original shaft. I doubt this can be done without actualy damaging the ring itself. As far as I know Suzo, they've made sure it will stay on forever.
All quite risky and too much hassle for most of us I think. Thus it was very low on my priority list.

So, Kowals experimenting is interesting info and I'm glad he shared it with us whilst knowing his English is like a Hong-Kong bootleg game manual.

horseboy · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2006, 05:09:59 am »

Actually, I wasn't making fun of Kowal's english at all. In my first post all I said was that we needed someone to learn Polish so that we could understand the post better. I as well appreciate him sharing the info.

Quote

He reduced tenderness on his shaft.

I laughed my

off at this, but Kowal didn't say it. ChadTower did.

Sorry for any confusion, but I just wanted to understand the post a little bit more, but I guess you did a little of that. Thanks

for doing that, but I am sure that there is a little more detail in there that even you aren't understanding.

kowal · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2006, 05:56:14 am »

Quote from: Grasshopper on May 12, 2006, 06:45:44 pm

So just to clarify, are you basically saying that the magnetic ring at the end of the standard shaft is not needed as long as you adjust the potentiometers to compensate?

Exactly. it was it been possible to enlarge the intensity of magnetical field. This original magnet will not be necessary then. It regulating potentiometer, it was it been possible was to put optimum. For handle from any metal

Quote from: Grasshopper on May 12, 2006, 06:45:44 pm

Also, would you be interested in selling some of those custom shafts you've had made?

to send money here heavily to Polish. They are cost sale large. I would can do sticks balltop to any joysticks, Happsuper, Competion, P360, T - stick... Polish Pay Pal makes impossible payment

. I would have to have account in England or USA.
You can it to execute alone or to charge someone work. Dimensions be passed.

Grasshopper · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2006, 09:14:21 am »

A pity. I thought Poland might have started using euros by now but maybe that's still a few years down the line.

Anyway, it occurs to me that perhaps the GGG Versa-ball shafts could be used instead if the c-clip on the inductive's shaft is the same position as the clip on the standard Suzo 500.

Level42 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2006, 11:55:21 am »

To horseboy: Ok it's cool, maybe I overreacted a bit too

To Kowal: Actualy, you can receive money far more easy than using PayPal. Within the EEC it is possible to do bank transfers under

horseboy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2006, 12:34:58 pm »

By the way, Level42, I have read quite a few of your posts, and if you wouldn't have mentioned it I would never have guessed that English wasn't your native language. Let's hope Kowal knows some German so you can get this translated.

Level42 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2006, 01:43:10 pm »

Horseboy, thanks that's a very big compliment

Guess it's a combination of having worked at Shell for a couple of years, reading lots and lots of English magazines, internet sites and forums and a tiny bit of talent

The fact that foreign programs are always subtitled on TV here helps too. Unconsciously, you hear a lot of English that way.

I think it's an easy language to learn by the way, but I still regret that it was only one vote that elected English as the official language in the US. Else we would all be talking Dutch now here !

Let's get back on-topic Sorry

kowal · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2006, 02:03:39 pm »

I have first to buy balls from Sanwa

when I am get ball, then we will think

Grasshopper · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2006, 04:06:49 pm »

So you've cut the thread to accept Sanwa/Seimitsu balls. That's a good idea. I've always wondered why RandyT didn't do that with his versaball shafts.

specfire · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2006, 08:04:55 pm »

Well, the end of the shaft is not a magnet, it is ferrite

I suspect that the main coil around the center opening on the PCB is generating a constant oscillation (AC current). This then temporarily "magnetizes" the ferrite ring on the end of the joystick shaft. As the magnetized ferrite ring oscillates, a current is then induced into one or more of the eight smaller coils.

These smaller coils seem to be set in pairs corresponding to Top, Bottom, Right, Left. Comparisons are then made between the current strength in each coil, thereby determining the exact joystick position.

The adjustment pot simply cuts off the diagonal signal below a certain (adjustable) threshold. This results in a range of diagonals from very wide to none.

Any ferrous compound, such as a steel joystick shaft, would have the same effect but would be MUCH less sensitive and the result might be a narrower adjustment range, less sensitive movement, or the joystick not "engaging" until nearer the maximum throw.

If kowal is going for a single setting for just 2D fighters and shoot-em up's, then the loss in sensitivity might be OK. If you are going for a fully adjustable "do-it-all" stick, then I don't think this mod would be that desireable.

spec

kowal · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2006, 05:16:39 am »

Quote from: specfire on May 16, 2006, 08:04:55 pm

If kowal is going for a single setting for just 2D fighters and shoot-em up's, then the loss in sensitivity might be OK

To shumps joystick should be sensitivity. sensitivity and short throw this the most important parameters near shumps. Therefore I do not play on joystick Sanwa, they are not sensitivity

Quote from: specfire on May 16, 2006, 08:04:55 pm

]If you are going for a fully adjustable "do-it-all" stick, then I don't think this mod would be that desireable

I made modifications to to exchange ugly stick, I did not want to alter parameters. After adjusting of potentiometers he acts identically how on original stick, engagement follows on 3 degree.

specfire · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2006, 08:21:38 am »

I'm glad you were able to adjust the other pots so that the overall action is the same. It does seem strange to me that the same performance can be achieved, since the ferrite ring added cost to the production of these sticks. If it didn't add additional function, why did Suzo put a ferrite ring on in the first place?

kowal · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2006, 08:57:31 am »

Ring should be theoretically. Ring assures better balancing-pole. Magnetical field acts evenly. If we will take off him this we lose this balancing-pole. I without ring had anomalies (asymmetric engagement, bad diagonals). It been possible balancing-pole to regain-regulating potentiometers.
Ring should be. Possible it is however adjusting joystick to he acted without ring.

Grasshopper · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2006, 01:36:06 pm »

Kowal, I've just been checking Farnell's site and they sell a wide range of ferrite rings (see here). It occurs to me that you could change the design of your replacement handles so that they can be fitted with one of Farnell's ferrite rings.

Do you have the equivalent of Farnell in Poland?

kowal · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2006, 03:13:33 pm »

http://www.cyfronika.com.pl/e/store/easyshop.cgi?vid=vbhxygrldurhrmvrsfnpwpnfpystupbq&com=PT/3450&kategoria=
10x6x10mm. this should be good, I ordered

RandyT · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2006, 05:02:07 pm »

Just spitballing here, but is it possible that the steel shaft will retain more, or build up, magnetism over time, causing a drift in sensitivity?

Perhaps the ferrite is more stable in this regard.

RandyT

specfire · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2006, 05:40:55 pm »

Quote from: RandyT on May 17, 2006, 05:02:07 pm

Just spitballing here, but is it possible that the steel shaft will retain more, or build up, magnetism over time, causing a drift in sensitivity?

Perhaps the ferrite is more stable in this regard.

RandyT

While ferrite is generally made to be "soft-magnetic" in that it does not retain any magnetism (there are "hard-magnetic" ferrite applications apparently), obviously iron holds magnetic polarity even when removed from the field source. In this case however, the magnetic field is oscillating (likely at a high frequency) and so a cumulative effect is not likely.

On the other hand, it might end up with a very mild but completely uneven (non-homogeneous) polarity which would make adjustment very difficult (and may change over time like you pointed out.)

spec

kowal · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2006, 05:49:36 pm »

I finished tests at last. The new sticks may the ferryt core. Bought 2 new joysticks in Suzo because my old stick be calibrated. They from new sticks act correctly - calibrating do not require

. I can alter pivot also on wider about 0,75 mm (ideal centring to center).
I think about making on sale several copies

Grasshopper · « **Reply #24 on:** July 15, 2006, 12:48:54 pm »

Excellent news. I'd definitely be interested in buying a few, depending upon price of course.

kowal · « **Reply #25 on:** July 15, 2006, 03:17:16 pm »

I have only red balltop sanwa.
price 12-14USD (pivot, red balltop sanwa LB35, stick stainless steel + ferrite ring)

if it would be buyers more (<8-10) I would can order different colours.

Level42 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 15, 2006, 06:03:02 pm »

Well.......I might change my mind on these.....if only for the fact how much I appreceate Kowals initiative and work !

I can hear the requests for hollow shafts, white transparant balls and LED lighting coming right up

P.S. I only now noticed how you connected your wiring to the connector, very nice ! I had an occasional problem with wires getting out of the original connector. I actualy already have these metal pins and even probably a right connector that fits from my work ! Will give it a try tomorrow ! Thanks Kowal

Grasshopper · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:36:19 am »

I'm not too bothered about the ball tops as they are sold in a variety of colours (including translucent) by another board member (ponyboy).

So what would be the price for just the pivot, stainless steel stick and the ferrite ring?

Thanks

kowal · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2006, 06:33:59 am »

Grasshopper:
pivot, stainless steel stick and the ferrite ring - price 9 USD (without ball!)

I will execute handles 3-4 weeks. I have to know only quantity buyers.
I have to buy material. Not much persons have this joystick. I will make only one limited series.

Quote

I can hear the requests for hollow shafts, white transparant balls and LED lighting coming right up

this would be possible but this is difficult. I can buy from stainless steel tubes. But problem will be from installing ball

the thread of a screw M6 will be to make problm. To make different thread of a screw (M9) in ball completely and place on led.
Yes defult conektor sucks

I use PH 2.54

on Sanwa JLF looks so:

Level42 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2006, 03:54:18 pm »

Hi Kowal,

OK, I'm convinced, put me down for two complete sets (so including the ball, if you change your mind and will offer other colors then solid red, let me know ! I totaly love this one: Sanwa LB-35-MP (

)

About the hollow shaft: I know nothing of metal working, I only mentioned this because I've seen the other ball top handles with leds. I don't really need them, but they would rock of course

For now I'm happy with what you will offer.

I've now fitted one of my Inductives with the connectors from my work, GREAT ! I only had 2, 4 and 10 pin connectors, so I used one 4 pin and one 2 pin connector. Had to cut off the "lips" on these connectors, now they fit perfectly and are very sturdy. This is much more reliable then the original "push-in" connectors. This will also be great for my Suzo Trackball, because this uses the same connectors.

Grasshopper · « **Reply #30 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:13:38 pm »

I need a few days to think about this but I'm likely to buy at least four shafts.

Level42, can you give me a link to the site you saw that ball picture on.

Thanks

Level42 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:20:37 pm »

No way, it's a big secret !!! (They are running out fast !!!)

But I give you a hint, right click the picture and select properties...the first part will show you the site

Grasshopper · « **Reply #32 on:** July 16, 2006, 04:47:47 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on July 16, 2006, 04:20:37 pm

But I give you a hint, right click the picture and select properties...the first part will show you the site

D'oh!

kowal · « **Reply #33 on:** July 16, 2006, 05:09:27 pm »

Quote

I need a few days to think about this

it does not hurry to me

meshball

so this is pretty
but joystick looks how golf ball
I thought to make balltop with logo: PACMAN, galaxian-bat...

I play Venom in GuiltyGear. I think to to make buttons looking how billiard balls. I will use sanwa buttons.

Level42 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 16, 2006, 05:35:58 pm »

I think I saw a great Pac Man balltop somewhere on this forum once.....can't find it anymore though. It was great !

Grasshopper · « **Reply #35 on:** July 16, 2006, 05:40:01 pm »

Quote from: Level42 on July 16, 2006, 05:35:58 pm

I think I saw a great Pac Man balltop somewhere on this forum once.....can't find it anymore though. It was great !

Do you mean this?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53116.0

destructor · « **Reply #36 on:** July 17, 2006, 09:55:19 am »

I have some Seimitsu and Sanwa 35mm balls and I say that Sanwa bubble ball (LB-39) are great. Images don't show how this ball looks really.

Level42 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 17, 2006, 01:23:43 pm »

Quote from: Grasshopper on July 16, 2006, 05:40:01 pm

Quote from: Level42 on July 16, 2006, 05:35:58 pm
I think I saw a great Pac Man balltop somewhere on this forum once.....can't find it anymore though. It was great !

Do you mean this?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53116.0

Bingo !

Grasshopper · « **Reply #38 on:** July 20, 2006, 02:46:02 pm »

Kowal, can you clarify something for me?

If we want non-red ball tops do we need to order 8-10 of them in the same colour, or can it be 8-10 in a variety of colours?

Thanks

kowal · « **Reply #39 on:** July 20, 2006, 03:01:09 pm »

I need 8-10 orders. I can then order from akhibara- shop different colours. shipping costs 10-20 $ (I do not know exactly what price it will be for mail.). 1 Balltop 180YEN costs.
1balltop price+shipping = 3-5$
Grasshopper - 4
Level42 - 2
Kremmit - 2
= 8
I will make first only handles. We later will think over balls. You will choose colours. I will order. Ship will spread on 8-10 persons.


Main	Restorations	Software	Audio/Jukebox/MP3	Everything Else	Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements	Monitor/Video	GroovyMAME	Merit/JVL Touchscreen	Meet Up	Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing	Woodworking	Software Support Forums	Consoles	Project Arcade	Reviews
Automated Projects	Artwork	Frontend Support Forums	Pinball	Forum Discussion	Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board	controls.dat	Linux	Miscellaneous Arcade	Wiki Discussion	Old Archives
Lightguns	Arcade1Up	Try the site in https mode		Site News


Unread posts \| New Replies \| Recent posts \| Rules \| Chatroom \| Wiki \| File Repository \| RSS \| Submit news