SlikStik Tornado Spinner News

[skippy]

Subliminal messaging makes me want a sandwiich.  And a spinner.  but I don't know which one.

jacktucky

You can't go wrong with a grilled cheese! Ham and cheese on wheat is pretty good too. A nice PB and J with a tall glass of milk is great...oh wait...you mean you cannot decide which spinner...

Following this thread from beginning to end my decision has been made.
I will just suffice it to say that I have turned from one product to the other as this thread has a bit of a cat fight feel to itand I wish not to add to it. Kinda reminds you of the peeing contest in elementry school don't it...and who doesn't like watching that?

Xam

Don't forget grilled cheese and bacon. yummers.  Even better is grilled cheese ham and bacon.  Really SS Christen your coming off like a complete knob here.  Of course Randy is going to defend his product line when somebody starts accusing him of being a copycat and then saying his design sucks.  C'mon we are all adults here let the products compete in the marketplace.  Obviously there is enough of a marketplace for two different products, otherwise we wouldn't all be bummed out about Kelsey coming down with Real Life Syndrome and not being able to put out Oscar products.

[dhansen]

Oscar spinners were more true to form as far as I'm concerned.  When I play Tempest with an Oscar spinner it feels like the original game.  C'mon back Oscar...we miss you!

[Lon]

It sounds as if SlikStik may lose some customers over this, so as much as I would like to cancel my pending order for a Tornado and reorder for the sale price and save $20. I am not going to


Lon

[bionicbadger]

The first one to come out with a push/pull spinner wins.
GO!

[patrickl]

I've had some scraps with Randy over his bashing of Ultimarc products in the past (BTW I'm happy to see the debate is settled since he now uses USB in abundance too lol), but in this case I think he's is completely right. I have a Tornado, but I have troubles with the low res decoder wheel in several games. I was wondering about getting another decoder wheel for my Tornado, but I guess a new (extra) spinner is more likely (with a LEDwiz  ).

I do understand Christian felt needlessly attacked/ridiculed by the snide remark about "spinning freely" being a design feature. The whole introduction could have done without things like that. I guess I do things like that too, but I don't represent (nor attack) a company (resp competitor) here.

[dirt]

i also will never use ss again. i thought his failure to send me my cp in a timely manner was a fluke until i heard th eother stories. when i finnaly got it i opened it up and it was all wrong. wrong layout,wrong joysticks. and it took forever to get the right joys out of him. basicly i just got bad serice all the way around. i build about 8 machines a year and he could have had one of his cp's on all of my machines but i need to get a cp faster than 3 months. thats right 3 months from time of payment till the time of getting the right joys from him. from aug. 22 until nov. 21

[nostrebor]

Contribution to this hobby is great in my opinion and the more the merrier, but for the love of God man, just promote your products without attacking others and I

[markrvp]

* markrvp passes Nostrebor some popcorn.

* markrvp gets up to use the bathroom.

* markrvp thinks the baby Jesus is crying right now.

[rwhip41]

You know, I have never ordered from SS and serveral times from Randy...  I had nothing against SS other then I thought their shipping a little high on small items, but that's it.  NOW...  I will never deal with SS.

Funny...

I was thinking the same thing from the other side of the coin. Never ordered from Randy. Probably never will now.

Does this mean it's a draw?

[Brax]

I'm afraid both these sellers are wound a little too tight for my liking. It really has nothing to do with their products. I won't deal with either of them based on personality alone.

With companies like Ultimarc and Oscar Controls; I'm afraid they pale in comparison. I'd actually prefer to hold my breath until Kelsey comes back than reward poor attitudes and bickering with my hard earned money.

Welcome to free enterprise boys.

[specfire]

Ok, this is in regards to the resolution issue; does tooth count matter?

Kremmit, you indicated the following tooth counts:

DOT spinner (original) has 128 teeth.
The Oscar DOT has 72, same as Blasteroids, Tempest, Oscar Vortex, and the 720 joystick.
The Pole Position ~ approx 80 teeth per one turn of the steering wheel.
Arkanoid has 24 teeth but 486 per single revolution of the knob.

According to Randy, resolution matters, so much so that you can never have too much only too little because you can always down sample your resolution by setting the sensitivity in MAME to some value below 100%.

Well...I own an Arkanoid spinner.  If you can always down sample, why doesn't everyone use a  geared spinner instead of a direct drive spinner?

For example, I could use my arkanoid spinner and then just set the sensitivity down as follows:

26.34% for DOT (128 teeth/486 teeth)
14.81% for Tempest et al. (72/486)
16.67% for Pole Position (81/486)

Comments??

[MYX]

* markrvp passes Nostrebor some popcorn.

* markrvp gets up to use the bathroom.

* markrvp thinks the baby Jesus is crying right now.

Um dude, my name's not skip. Pass the corn over here. Jesus may be crying, but it has nothing to do with spinners. That is Sinners. As to the bathroom, please wash your hands when your done. 

[markrvp]

* markrvp passes MYX some popcorn, then goes to get another softdrink.

[brandon]

For example, I could use my arkanoid spinner and then just set the sensitivity down as follows:

26.34% for DOT (128 teeth/486 teeth)
14.81% for Tempest et al. (72/486)
16.67% for Pole Position (81/486)

Comments??

(off topic...)

ooh.. this is the kind of info I like to see.. Somebody should make a utility that lets you count the "ticks" recieved from your spinner in one revolution then you could set the sensitivity in Mame to be exactly right for each game.. or better yet.. have it config Mame for you..  or you could have this intergrated into Mame.. a global spinner calibration that automatically adjusts the sensitivity for all spinner games so that each game responses correctly to each degree of movement..

[Kremmit]

Ok, this is in regards to the resolution issue; does tooth count matter?

Kremmit, you indicated the following tooth counts:

DOT spinner (original) has 128 teeth.
The Oscar DOT has 72, same as Blasteroids, Tempest, Oscar Vortex, and the 720 joystick.
The Pole Position ~ approx 80 teeth per one turn of the steering wheel.
Arkanoid has 24 teeth but 486 per single revolution of the knob.

According to Randy, resolution matters, so much so that you can never have too much only too little because you can always down sample your resolution by setting the sensitivity in MAME to some value below 100%.

Well...I own an Arkanoid spinner.  If you can always down sample, why doesn't everyone use a  geared spinner instead of a direct drive spinner?

For example, I could use my arkanoid spinner and then just set the sensitivity down as follows:

26.34% for DOT (128 teeth/486 teeth)
14.81% for Tempest et al. (72/486)
16.67% for Pole Position (81/486)

Comments??

Hey, real discussion! 

First reason:  If you've got an Arkanoid spinner, and have spent any time with a regular spinner, then you already know the answer.  They feel totally different.  The Arkanoid spinner feels "gritty" due to the gears, as opposed to the silky-smooth feel of a regular spinner (in good condition).  Also, the Arkanoid spinner has no "weight" to it.  While super-long spin times may or may not be of value in gameplay, some spin time certainly is, and the Arkanoid spinner pretty much stops turning the instant you take your hand off of it, no matter how hard you whirl it.

Second reason:  Availabillity.  Arkanoid spinners are in short supply, and the Happ/Wico replacement ones cost big $$ and the knob on them looks ugly as sin.  Those are the only geared-spinner options I am aware of.

Third reason:  Downsampling is much better than upsampling, but it's still not perfect.  Unless your downsample ratio is an exact integer (1:2, 1:3, 1:4...), some rounding must take place, resulting in some uneven-ness.  Probably not a big issue, but..

That said, your numbers should give you roughly the same amount of on-screen movement per rotation of the spinner knob that you would have gotten with the original controller. 

Of course, there's still the question of whether or not MAME is providing the correct amount of movement per rotation in the first place.  The only way to verify that is to test with a real arcade PCB and the original controller.  There was a thread around here a few years back where folks did that for some games, you might be able to dig it up with some searching.

[Xam]

You know, I have never ordered from SS and serveral times from Randy...  I had nothing against SS other then I thought their shipping a little high on small items, but that's it.  NOW...  I will never deal with SS.

Funny...

I was thinking the same thing from the other side of the coin. Never ordered from Randy. Probably never will now.

Does this mean it's a draw?

It means this type of discussion can cost you customers...that's all.
Personally I was on the fence of which to buy. My mind is made up as to which one now based on the discussion. Not that either party was particularly eloquent...then again...nor am I. The one whose spinner I am buying will know because I will PM the individual regarding my purchasefor technical assistance.

But yes...you are correct...on customers lost it is probably a draw. In a niche market such as this, I would do everything I could to hold onto customers.

Xam

[Warborg]

You know, I have never ordered from SS and serveral times from Randy...  I had nothing against SS other then I thought their shipping a little high on small items, but that's it.  NOW...  I will never deal with SS.

Funny...

I was thinking the same thing from the other side of the coin. Never ordered from Randy. Probably never will now.

Does this mean it's a draw?

It means this type of discussion can cost you customers...that's all.
Personally I was on the fence of which to buy. My mind is made up as to which one now based on the discussion. Not that either party was particularly eloquent...then again...nor am I. The one whose spinner I am buying will know because I will PM the individual regarding my purchasefor technical assistance.

But yes...you are correct...on customers lost it is probably a draw. In a niche market such as this, I would do everything I could to hold onto customers.

Xam

Agreed...

Although, in response to rwhip...  I guess the biggest tell for me was that Christian Slikstik fired the opening volley on this, that was what really put me off.  If Randy were the one to have done that, I would question future orders from him as well.  I have no issue with people preaching the virtues of their products over the competition, but I don't think much of it when they preach theirs while running down others...  But that's just me, and it seems like both sides have lost out due to this thread.  I can only speak from experience, and all of my dealings with Randy have been A+, while I haven't been impressed with a lot of communication from and about SS on here, and one communication I had with ChristianSS about a possible order that I kinda came away sour from.  But...  To each their own, eh?

[Rip]

The first one to come out with a push/pull spinner wins.
GO!

...and design and sell a frontline/tin star/wild western 8-way dial

[Xiaou2]

warbog,

 actually, Randy DID start the war here... as he made a comment in his product that was directly stated to put  SS's  spinner into question.

 Basically Copying the design,  would have rattled my cage too.

 So far, anyone thats decided to try fill a gap in a product line...  invests time, money,  and energy into it... and after its released,   Randy decides to come in and wipe them out... with nearly the same design.   

 Randys hardware skills are great though... so most cant compete with him, in that feild at all.

 Both  Christian, and Randy act as children.  Its been seen in both their postings throughout the history of this site. 

 All is fair in competition..   but to rub it in others faces.. well,  thats pretty sad IMOP.

 
 

[farmecologist]

I'm not naming names, but there certainly have been many 'large ego' flare ups here in the past.  Relax, guys...remember this is just a hobby ( for MOST of us, anyway )...

Actually, it kind of bugs me that all of these 'new product' posts/discussions are on the main board.  Shouldn't they be in the Buy/Sell/Trade board?

[pointdablame]

Actually, it kind of bugs me that all of these 'new product' posts/discussions are on the main board.  Shouldn't they be in the Buy/Sell/Trade board?

why would they be?  They aren't buying, selling, or trading anything.  They are announcing (and arguing) about products.

[RandyT]

actually, Randy DID start the war here... as he made a comment in his product that was directly stated to put  SS's  spinner into question.

Facts are facts.  The information I have conveyed on the topic thus far comes from 6 months if intensive research on spinners and the games they are used with.  If technical fact places anothers product into question, then so be it.  Tell me, if you produced something that was designed to not have a shortfall known to exist with competing/existing  products, how might you extol this virtue?  Are you meaning to tell me that merely talking about technical advantage or misplaced notions in a marketplace is tantamount to directly attacking a competitor?

Your anti-RandyT bias is showing again, Steve.

Basically Copying the design,  would have rattled my cage too.

Would somebody who owns both please take a picture of these two units side by side and put this to bed.  I don't own, nor have I ever seen the competing spinner product in the flesh , or I would do so myself.  But based on the photo, they are so different in design, both functional and otherwise,  that this assertion is beyond ludicrous.  It also improperly credits my hard work to another individual who is undeserving of that credit.

So far, anyone thats decided to try fill a gap in a product line...  invests time, money,   and energy into it... and after its released,   Randy decides to come in and wipe them out... with nearly the same design.   

Please provide an example of this and the people I have "wiped out" with my "mad skillz"    It's not nice to make assertions like this without providing an example.  And since you said "so far", there must have been more than one example by now.

Also, if you would be so kind, please start a new "RandyT bashing thread" on the board somewhere so I can defend myself without having to do it in this one.

Thanks,
RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Would somebody who owns both please take a picture of these two units side by side and put this to bed.  I don't own, nor have I ever seen the competing spinner product in the flesh , or I would do so myself.  But based on the photo, they are so different in design, both functional and otherwise,  that this assertion is beyond ludicrous.  It also improperly credits my hard work to another individual who is undeserving of that credit.

Here's some photos from SlikStik's website and the Turbo-Twist thread.  There are some definite similarities - footprint, dual bearing design, overall bracket shape, flywheel style, but also some significant differences.  I don't think calling it a copy or a rip-off is fair, but others can form their own opinions:

[vader]

Competition is great for all of us end users.  This thread has really soured my opinions of both companies.  I admit I was going to make a purchase from SS based solely on the fact that there was nothing else available in the marketplace.  Now that GGG released something viable I was inclined to take a hard look at the pro/ cons of each.  I have no problem with either vendor advertising the benefits of their products vs. others in the industry, but to go about it
in childish and attacking each other either personally or corparately is uncalled for.  You both
have great products and should be proud of that and just let the end users make their own educated decisions.  I personally challenge both of you do not respond anymore to this thread and just let it die.  The numbers of products either of you sell speak for themselves.

Best Wishes

Tim

[SlikStik Christian]

Facts are facts.  The information I have conveyed on the topic thus far comes from 6 months if intensive research on spinners and the games they are used with.  If technical fact places another

[RandyT]

Your history on having disputes with competitors is rather extensive, no? Disputing the best arcade product review site on the web, Retroblast, for somehow not giving your other (dare I say knock off) keyboard encoder an excellent review.

I'm going to permanently leave this thread with one final comment.  Nobody likes being outdone or proven wrong.  Attacks from the party with "mud on their face" are inevitable and the defense of those attacks is viewed as a "dispute" from those who do not have the technical expertise to view it otherwise.

Like my 'ol granny used to say: "It takes two to tango"

Good night.

RandyT

[johno]

I have used both slikstik products & andy's, after reading reviews at retroblast, plus randyt's fit throwing because he did not like his review, geez what a baby.
johno

[SlikStik Christian]

Your history on having disputes with competitors is rather extensive, no? Disputing the best arcade product review site on the web, Retroblast, for somehow not giving your other (dare I say knock off) keyboard encoder an excellent review.

I'm going to permanently leave this thread with one final comment.  Nobody likes being outdone or proven wrong.  Attacks from the party with "mud on their face" are inevitable and the defense of those attacks is viewed as a "dispute" from those who do not have the technical expertise to view it otherwise.

Like my 'ol granny used to say: "It takes two to tango"

Good night.

RandyT

  The only person you have outdone is yourself,

[Warborg]

Facts are facts.  The information I have conveyed on the topic thus far comes from 6 months if intensive research on spinners and the games they are used with.  If technical fact places another

[Zakk]

I have used both slikstik products & andy's, after reading reviews at retroblast, plus randyt's fit throwing because he did not like his review, geez what a baby.
johno

Well based on your impressive reputation and long-time dedication to the hobby, I have no choice but to do as you say!

Oh, no wait, I was thinking of someone who didn't just make up a moniker and join yesterday. 

[Warborg]

I have used both slikstik products & andy's, after reading reviews at retroblast, plus randyt's fit throwing because he did not like his review, geez what a baby.
johno

Well based on your impressive reputation and long-time dedication to the hobby, I have no choice but to do as you say!

Oh, no wait, I was thinking of someone who didn't just make up a moniker and join yesterday. 

  Busted...

[CheffoJeffo]

To quote Dr. McCoy:  "I'd pay real money if he'd shut up."

Best ... use ... of ... that ... line ... EVAR!!

 

[SlikStik Christian]

I have used both slikstik products & andy's, after reading reviews at retroblast, plus randyt's fit throwing because he did not like his review, geez what a baby.
johno

Johno,

  Since I have no clue who you are at the moment but I do appreciate the positive support, can you please clarify your reason for posting a reply on this topic (It

[Tiger-Heli]

By the “Busted” comment above there seems to be some non-believers here as to your affiliation to us.

Affiliation to "us"  with "us" being SlikStik or BYOAC 

Guy has one post on the board and uses it to post in this thread that he likes your and Andy's products based on RetroBlast reviews and calls RandyT a baby - doesn't lend a lot of credibility . . .

No offense - Johno

[screaming]

Without taking sides here and personality differences aside, I'd like to state a fact and an independant opinion.

I haven't seen one post by Christian backing up his product with anything other than an attack.  How about stating some facts? Or how about just ackownleding that your product is two years old and may need an upgrade to compete with current products on the marketplace?  You know it happens.  Competition, that is.

RandyT has slung poo back, but at least his posts are laced with technical mumbo jumbo that makes me feel more confident about his product.

[pointdablame]

I know that I'm not the only one who sees potential for this thread to get messy

I'm a damn genius.

[screaming]

I'm a damn genious.

  ...Or a psychic. But I heard that all psychics are gypsies and that would mean you might know some Pikeys and everyone knows Pikeys are well known for their skills of negotiation and business. No wonder.   

[thebrownshow]

Anyone else reminded of these?
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/25
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/02/10

[Patent Doc]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/25
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/02/10

Those were awesome....I love the second one.

Seriously though both companies have a history of great products and at times have been acused of being confrontational.  Both companies have people that didn't like the service they got.  No point in trying to dig yourself in a hole trying to show how deep the other is or has been.  It's just not worth it.

As for me, I'll use products from either company since I've never had a problem with either vendor taking time to answer questions and provide what I would consider good cutomer service.

Patent Doc

[saint]

tick tick tick tick tick . . . .

(this thread is in danger of journeying to post hell...)