SlikStik Tornado Spinner News

[SlikStik Christian]

We want to congratulate Groovy Game Gear for bringing an alternative choice to the spinner enthusiast industry, at SlikStik we know that competition/alternative choices are good for the end user which is one of our commitments as an OEM manufacturer.

In the manufacturing process companies should try to make the highest quality product while keeping it cost effective as well as consumer friendly. We mention price because SlikStik products seem to get hammered for being expensive or overpriced. In addition, we have noticed that some of the claims regarding functionality of the Turbo compared to other spinner controls released in the online, arcade controls forum sales pitch are of no value, thus the need for some clarification.

In its main form, the Turbo has a (polymer = plastic)

[whammoed]

I am a slikstik customer and will continue to buy products from slikstik that I want of course.
I own a tornado spinner and have been satisfied with it.
I do not think it is overpriced at all.  Some people just don't understand how much custom parts cost to be machined especially in "limited" numbers.
The tornado plays tempest great.
Good job on the price break.
I LOVE the way it spins.  It does nothing for gameplay, its just cool!
BUT...
Lets not pretend for a second that a spinner can't benefit from a higher CPR (cycles per revolution).  It may not matter in a game like tempest but for a game like Arkanoid it surely matters.  There was a reason the arkanoid spinner was geared to provide a total CPR of  486.  The tornados 40-50 CPR (I know its around there) doesn't come close to this.  I still use it for Arkanoid of course, but I would give it a rating of "playable" at best.  When you turn up the sensitvity to get it close to having the same movement of the "vaus" per degree turn of the knob, the movement of the "vaus" becomes choppy along the screen.  You simply can't gain resolution, but you can decrease it.  In other words I believe there are 176 different positions for the vaus along the bottom of the screen in arkanoid.  I want to move the vaus along the bottom with very littly turn of the knob, say around 60-70 degrees.  On a 50 CPR encoder 66 degrees only gives me 9 teeth!  The arkanoid spinner would have 87!  So how am I supposed to get the same feel without the vaus hopping along ten times further than it should?<---rhetorical question

Anyway, I think both SS and GGG have great products and can't wait to see what's next.  I'm just not buying the idea that a 40-50 CPR (tooth) encoder is the perfect resolution.

[SlikStik Christian]

whammoed,

  Point taken and we agree 100% to be very honest we are very familiar with the special requirements of Arkanoid and its original CPR of 486, and the Tornado isn

[whammoed]

Thanks.
Yes, can't wait for some reviews.
And once again I actually can't believe how inexpensive the spinner options out there are.  I have priced custom machined parts for various projects in the past and know exactly how expensive it really is.  What are vendors making on these, like 5 bucks?!?!  Normal retail on things is generally a 100% markup or more.  I certainly doubt you guys are making these for $30-$35 each.  So I for one am appreciative for these products and understand the capital investment it took to get them going.
Randy hasn't mentioned what the CPR of his spinner is but I doubt it reaches the 486 mark.  Now that would be an expensive spinner!  Non geared at 486...Yikes!

[rackoon]

AWSOME DEAL! I will buy one next payday!

[mahuti]

Yay to lower prices. Thanks for that. Compatability with the optipac is cool too.  

And like you, we all look forward to the forthcoming extensive reviews of Groovy Game Gear's products. Can't wait.

[juggle50]

Christian,

I just bought a tornado a month ago and haven't installed it yet and am happy that you took the time to back up your product even with a new one on the market.

I really wanted to connect my spinner to the mini pac.  Can I send you back the spinner board and trade it in for the ultimarc compliable one?

Also, how come you don't send the screw with your spinner knobs?

thank you

[rdagger]

I have a red Tornado spinner on my cab.  The knob is very high quality although I was disappointed that the color is more pink than the red shown on the website.  In terms of play, I have the same comments -- great for Tempest, sucks for Arkanoid.  It's funny that my Happ 3" trackball works much better for Arkanoid than the Tornado.

Another advantage is the small footprint which was a must for my CP.

[SlikStik Christian]

Christian,

I just bought a tornado a month ago and haven't installed it yet and am happy that you took the time to back up your product even with a new one on the market.

I really wanted to connect my spinner to the mini pac.  Can I send you back the spinner board and trade it in for the ultimarc compliable one?

Also, how come you don't send the screw with your spinner knobs?

thank you

juggle50,

  Not a problem, remove the 2 screws and send back the board and cable to the following address;

SlikStik
Attn: Christian, TTL Board Swap.
357 Harrison St
Nutley, NJ 07110

I will send you out a new board with cable to connect it to your Opti-PAC

Also, all our spinner tops have set screws installed, were you missing them? If so just let me know what top you have and I will include the set screws as well.

[divemaster127]

I own the slikstik spinner its works & looks awesome
thanks
dm

[RandyT]

We want to congratulate Groovy Game Gear for bringing an alternative choice to the spinner enthusiast industry, at SlikStik we know that competition/alternative choices are good for the end user which is one of our commitments as an OEM manufacturer.

In the manufacturing process companies should try to make the highest quality product while keeping it cost effective as well as consumer friendly. We mention price because SlikStik products seem to get hammered for being expensive or overpriced. In addition, we have noticed that some of the claims regarding functionality of the Turbo compared to other spinner controls released in the online, arcade controls forum sales pitch are of no value, thus the need for some clarification.

Wow, GGG got congratulated in one paragraph, and then called a liar in the next...I'm all happy and hurt at the same time

I don't usually like to do this in a thread started by a competitor, but there doesn't seem to be any qualms about dragging our name around while alleging that I have somehow made false statements, so defending myself here seems to be the proper thing to do.

In its main form, the Turbo has a (polymer = plastic)

[Kremmit]

I third the notion that the # of teeth on the encoder wheel definately counts.  To suggest otherwise is either ignorance talking, or plain old bull.... and anybody that understands the Arkanoid problem isn't ignorant.

In my experience, the number of teeth on the wheel definately makes a difference in MAME.  Any game that requires the sensetivity to be set higher than 100 is suffering from it.  The more teeth you have on your encoder wheel, the less likely you are to have to set your sensetivity over 100.

I've played around with lots of different encoder wheels, with different tooth counts.  Just for reference, here are the ones I actually saved the numbers for:

DOT spinner (original) has 128 teeth.
The Oscar DOT has 72, same as Blasteroids, Tempest, Oscar Vortex, and the 720 joystick.
The Pole Position wheel has 24 teeth, with the gearing you get just shy of 4 revolutions of the encoder per turn of the wheel, for somewhere around 80 teeth actually passing through the optics per one turn of the steering wheel.

Arkanoid is the special one.  The knob attaches to shaft #1, which has a 72 tooth gear on it.  That gear turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #2.  Shaft #2 also has a 72 tooth gear on it, which then turns a 16 tooth gear on shaft #3.  Shaft #3 also has the encoder wheel on it, which has 24 teeth.

So, shaft 2 spins 4.5 times for every turn of shaft 1.  Shaft 3 spins 4.5 turns for every turn of shaft 2.  4.5 squared is 20.25 turns of the encoder for every turn of the knob, which is 486 teeth per revolution of the spinner knob!!  (That's even more than was stated above, but I believe my numbers are correct, unless anybody sees any math errors.)

SlikStik still has better knobs, though.

[Lon]

Damn, wouldnt you know it. I just ordered a tornado yesterday ... arrrggghh


Lon

[pointdablame]

Well with the price drop, I'm really going to have to debate on which spinner to get now that my latest project is finally starting to show progress (I just jinxed that, didn't I?)  Hopefully someone has a side by side compare-o lined up (Kevin?)...

I know that I'm not the only one who sees potential for this thread to get messy, so I just want to say this:  Both Randy and Christian are great assets to this hobby.  They both make excellent products, and are both very proud of their work.

Don't let this debate threads scare any of you new guys away.  Both GGG and SS make awesome products and you won't go wrong with either IMO.

The only downside of all of this for me is Randy and Christian are BOTH guilty of making me choose between arcade parts or feeding myself at college.  For shame you two, for shame! 

[rugby1]

Wow,  I can't believe this post hasn't gone to PH yet.... Not cool in my book to basically call a competitor a liar in a public forum.  Not what these forums are here for and definately not something a professional business would do. 

I have ordered from SS and GGG and I can tell you that I will never do business with SS again.   Not even if SS drops the price of their products like they have with their spinners.   I should never have to call a company and ask them to ship my order 6 weeks after I have ordered it.  Don't let me inconvenience you SS (as you are obviously too busy slamming competitors instead of running a business)!  And If I would have seen these posts earlier, I would have never ordered from them to begin with....

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=17778.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=17806.0

*edit:  Yes Christian... what you posted way back when is coming back to haunt you....  I am making it my personal mission to give you bad press

[SlikStik Christian]

We want to congratulate Groovy Game Gear for bringing an alternative choice to the spinner enthusiast industry, at SlikStik we know that competition/alternative choices are good for the end user which is one of our commitments as an OEM manufacturer.

In the manufacturing process companies should try to make the highest quality product while keeping it cost effective as well as consumer friendly. We mention price because SlikStik products seem to get hammered for being expensive or overpriced. In addition, we have noticed that some of the claims regarding functionality of the Turbo compared to other spinner controls released in the online, arcade controls forum sales pitch are of no value, thus the need for some clarification.

Wow, GGG got congratulated in one paragraph, and then called a liar in the next...I'm all happy and hurt at the same time

I don't usually like to do this in a thread started by a competitor, but there doesn't seem to be any qualms about dragging our name around while alleging that I have somehow made false statements, so defending myself here seems to be the proper thing to do.

In its main form, the Turbo has a (polymer = plastic) “C” bracket design including dual ball bearings. Just as a coincidence, the SlikStik Tornado which was released 3 years ago by SlikStik™ arcade products has the same “C” bracket design and hosts dual ball bearings as well.

While we do not claim to have re-invented the wheel by coming up with an original spinner design such as the Tornado and at the same time welcome competition and the build a better mouse trap theory, the Turbo design is a borderline duplicate of the Tornado in more ways than one.

Let's just say that your claim is "far reaching" at best.  Mechanically,  A spinner is essentially what is known in mechanical engineering circles as a "dead axle".    Axles in the SS spinner configuration are found on everything from wheelbarrows to "little red wagons".

But it doesn't really matter because the "Turbo" does not employ this type of structural design.  The circuit board is very tightly screwed to the forward portion of the frame, and therefore acts as a structural member.  The frame is sturdy enough that it probably doesn't require the extra support, but it was made part of the design "just in case".    Therefore, the frame is not a "C" frame having 3 structural members, rather an "open box" design with 4 structural members.

The "dual bearing" method was actually inspired by the trackball roller design.  As you must be aware, GGG has been offering replacement high resolution encoder wheels for trackballs for quite some time now.

Some of the Turbo’s claims about “high resolution” are a bit of marketing bunk to make it seem that its better than any other spinner and if you care to read the technology behind that statement our rendition is below for anyone’s perusal.

<I think that's the part where I was called a liar.  Anyone else besides Whammoed think I'm not purveying "marketing bunk" when I state that high-resolution is important in a spinner design?>

About mouse/spinner resolution and operation:

If you observe the movement of a mouse cursor in Windows, you will find that the mouse moves in small increments as the teeth on the flywheel break the optic plane, sometimes known as "Mickeys". If the mouse movement is set to normal in the windows settings, then for each spoke on the wheel the mouse moves one Mickey.

If by "normal" you mean mouse speed = slow and Acceleration = Disabled, then yes.  But I don't think that would be the "normal" windows setting for most folks.

No change in the design of spinner can affect this unless someone was unknowingly producing a flywheel with teeth that were not of equal distances and have varying teeth sizes which would then cause choppy movement.

This is out in left field.  Not only wouldn't anyone ever do this, but I'd be surprised if it worked at all.  Choppy movement isn't a Windows™ cursor issue anyway.  If you use your spinner with a Windows game that expects a mouse, and you try to use a spinner with a low-res encoder, you will end up needing to increase the "mouse speed" and or acceleration.   But then you would be playing with interpolated (upscaled) control, which sacrifices accuracy and could induce "choppy movement" in the avatar, much like what has been explained in relation to Arkanoid™.

Mouse movement is fixed at one Mickey per spoke regardless of the distance of the spoke itself. There is no jerkiness because the Mickeys are designed to avoid this by a specific tooth count and even spacing between teeth. Let’s say we have 3 times as many teeth on the same diameter wheel, which would seem physically impossible because the teeth would be so thin they would not be practical, this would then mean the mouse would move more Mickeys per revolution of the spinner. This has not increased the resolution at all; it simply makes the mouse move further across the screen per full rotation.

That is the point.  More player movement as a result of real data (thus providing accuracy) for less turning of the knob.  Let me try to explain this to you:  If you have an encoder wheel with 48 spokes (which would provide 96 pulses) and 220 possible positions for the player graphic, that is intended to be controlled with 120 degrees of motion then you would need to divide the resolution of the encoder wheel by 3 (360 degrees divided by 120 =3).  This would give you only 32 pulses to represent the 220 positions.  Therefore, the on-screen graphic would have to jump 6.875 positions per pulse (not tooth) of the encoder wheel, which is a ratio of 6.875 to one.  If the sensitivity setting of the game does not offer a sensitivity "boost" of 687.5%, the game cannot be played as intended, even if you are willing to accept the terribly choppy movement.

If anyone does not understand this, please let me know.  I'm not sure I can present it any more simply, but I will try if necessary.

With that being said, if we adjust the mouse sensitivity down to compensate for the new speed, which is likely to be too fast to be useable and provide a benefit to you playing games, it slows down the mouse to where we were with our original spoked wheel. Have we increased the resolution by doing this? No. If you look closely you will see that the mouse movement is still one Mickey at a time and each Mickey is the same as before, but we actually need to move the mouse 2 or 3 (or more) spokes on the wheel to produce one degree of movement.

The mouse movement actually misses out spokes and might end up with a worse resolution by doing this because of an uneven process. Sometimes 2 spokes might be missed out and sometimes 3.

The physical movement between spokes is so small, this ends up being a "non-issue".  It's all about scale.  I'll exaggerate the example a bit to make the point.  If I were to put 3 dots on a piece of paper, 2 of them 3 inches apart and 2 of them 2.5 inch apart ( .833333 the distance of the first), and you viewed them from 2 feet away, the difference would be pretty obvious.  Now, if I were to put 3 more dots on the paper, with the first two being .06 inches apart and the other 2 being .05" inches apart (still .833333 times the distance) and you viewed them from the same distance as before, you could not tell the difference.  Likewise, you would not be able to tell if you had turned the knob an extra .010".

The only way the resolution could be actually increased would be to reduce the size of the Mickeys themselves but this is an entirely software-driven issue and nothing to do with the physical spinner. There is no point in doing this though; it will not benefit your game of Tempest in any way. In the case stated by GGG, their spinner is nearly 3 times more (what?) than any other spinner. Regardless, this can only be done via software programming, just as a reminder Mame itself already has an Analog adjustment built in which enables users the ability to adjust the mouse/spinner/trackball sensitivity settings to their liking thus no need for this feature to be on board of any spinner PCB.

<Sigh>  Here's a number for you to play with: 130 "spokes" which provides for 260 pulses per each revolution of the spinner.  There, I showed you mine, now it's your turn to "show me yours"   If it doesn't matter, then you will have no qualms about providing the number.

Forget about all that "software upscaling" stuff...none of it works well, which is precisely why hardware resolution is so important.

Ask yourself, have you or anyone for that matter ever complained that the resolution of their mouse is insufficient and disrupting game play? No of course not. This is simply a marketing scheme accusing other spinners of producing jerky or choppy movement.

Yeah, that's the ticket!   

No, someones "mouse" is going to have plenty of resolution.  A mouse is like a trackball in that the encoder resolution is multiplied by the difference between the circumference of the ball and the circumference of the encoder shaft.  Consider it a "friction gearing system".  A spinner, on the other hand, directly drives the encoder wheel and low-res equals low-res no matter which way you try to "spin" it
 

The Tornado is still one of the best spinning devices ever made and its design being so simple but ingenious that other manufactures keep using it as their own. In addition it works so well that it has earned enough notoriety that Happ Controls has now licensed production and marketing for the Tornado world wide.

And you have a problem with my marketing speak?

This newest attempt from our GGG to almost copy our spinner design and release it for sale at a lower price and then say “I would probably kick myself for offering them at the current price”, just validates that SlikStik charges a more then fair price for the Tornado, especially since it includes some awesome spinner top choices and all the necessary adaptors at no additional charge.

"Newest attempt" ??   "Almost copy" ??  Pardon me for saying so, but this is getting a little weird even for my tastes.   If I wanted to copy the SS design, I could have done it perfectly.  The fact that I didn't should speak volumes.

Good luck with your sale.  And next time you feel like accusing me of lying in a public forum, I suggest you get your facts straight first.  Could be considered wreckless to do otherwise.


Thank You,

RandyT


P.S.

I own the slikstik spinner its works & looks awesome
thanks
dm

Don't forget to disclose that you also sell them

Thank You.

[SlikStik Christian]

Wow,  I can't believe this post hasn't gone to PH yet.... Not cool in my book to basically call a competitor a liar in a public forum.  Not what these forums are here for and definately not something a professional business would do. 

I have ordered from SS and GGG and I can tell you that I will never do business with SS again.   Not even if SS drops the price of their products like they have with their spinners.   I should never have to call a company and ask them to ship my order 6 weeks after I have ordered it.  Don't let me inconvenience you SS (as you are obviously too busy slamming competitors instead of running a business)!  And If I would have seen these posts earlier, I would have never ordered from them to begin with....

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=17778.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=17806.0

*edit:  Yes Christian... what you posted way back when is coming back to haunt you....  I am making it my personal mission to give you bad press

Sorry about the delay, if you would have read the International Orders policy before making a purchase, things may have not got as hairy as they did. We did try and rectify your situation as quickly as possible though.

[SlikStik Christian]

Hey divemaster127, did he just say that you sell Tornado spinners?

[rugby1]

Sorry about the delay, if you would have read the International Orders policy before making a purchase, things may have not got as hairy as they did. We did try and rectify your situation as quickly as possible though.

Hmmm.... I gave all contact info... phone number, address, email addy....   and I did read your International order policy....  too bad it doesn't apply because military address' are the same as shipping to NY.   Now if I would have used my German address then you might have a point, but I never do that because of customs fee's.  Amazing that GGG, Ponyboy and even Happ got my orders to me in 7 to 10 days and it took you literally 2 friggin' months!

*edit : Oh and I did email you and got an auto response... twice!   never heard a word from you in response.... I can produce those emails if necessary.  Basic point is your customer service is horrible and I'm not the only person to have issues. 

[RandyT]

che cosa gira intorno a viene intorno, my keyboard commando friend.

Italian to English translation:

"What come 'round, goes around."

Nice.  I go through the trouble of explaining the technology and instead of a technical response or explanation as to how you are drawing your conclusions, I get threatened in a public forum.

Hey divemaster127, did he just say that you sell Tornado spinners?

Quote from divemaster127.

"I'm running a huge  HAPP sale, below is a list of most of the common happ items,I carry the ENTIRE HAPP LINE, so email me if you do not see it below for a price."

Sounds like he sells them to me.  Or does divemaster127 NOT carry the "ENTIRE HAPP LINE" of which your product is part?

I can only go by what he says.

RandyT

[rugby1]

che cosa gira intorno a viene intorno, my keyboard commando friend.

Italian to English translation:

"What come 'round, goes around."

Nice.  I go through the trouble of explaining the technology and instead of a technical response or explanation as to how you are drawing your conclusions, I get threatened in a public forum.

At least he edited that out... again, nice professional response from SS

[RandyT]

che cosa gira intorno a viene intorno, my keyboard commando friend.

Italian to English translation:

"What come 'round, goes around."

Nice.  I go through the trouble of explaining the technology and instead of a technical response or explanation as to how you are drawing your conclusions, I get threatened in a public forum.

At least he edited that out... again, nice professional response from SS

Doesn't matter, we have copies.

Thanks!

RandyT

[RetroACTIVE]

Competition is supposed to be a good thing, it drives innovation and choice.

Its always easier when there is no competition...

[markrvp]

* markrvp grabs some popcorn.

[rugby1]

Competition is supposed to be a good thing, it drives innovation and choice.

Its always easier when there is no competition...

I respectfully disagree... Supply and Demand drive innovation....  RandyT came up with several new ideas that no one has done (LED Wiz comes to mind)....    There was no supply but high demand for a product like that and it seems to be highly successful... now that isn't saying that someone can't "build a better mousetrap" and force RandyT to come up with something bigger and better.   Point is that RandyT has no competition in regards to the LED Wiz and that didn't affect innovation.     

[rugby1]

* markrvp grabs some popcorn.

Share with the rest of us    

A soda would be nice too

[RetroACTIVE]

Competition is supposed to be a good thing, it drives innovation and choice.

Its always easier when there is no competition...

I respectfully disagree... Supply and Demand drive innovation....  RandyT came up with several new ideas that no one has done (LED Wiz comes to mind)....    There was no supply but high demand for a product like that and it seems to be highly successful... now that isn't saying that someone can't "build a better mousetrap" and force RandyT to come up with something bigger and better.   Point is that RandyT has no competition in regards to the LED Wiz and that didn't affect innovation.    

Well, I think Randy T has an excellent product line... I believe he has created an incredible affordable scalable solution for anyone wanting to build an arcade controller.

I also believe that LedWiz is a product that fit an un-met need int the market. 

Well, I don't believe that supply and demand are the only things that drive innovation.  My point is that when a competitor enters the market, it should force the market holders to re-think their position and "respectfully" react.

[SlikStik Christian]

No one had questioned the RandyT product line and as a matter of fact I have made several past statements which were all positive regarding his products.

It

[rugby1]

OMG... what a tewl

"SlikStik ....Badddd......SlikStik.... Badddd"


Now Randy, Don't be sending us subliminal messages or brainwashing us 

[Kremmit]

Contribution to this hobby is great in my opinion and the more the merrier, but for the love of God man, just promote your products without attacking others and I

[Kremmit]

All personal issues aside, here's the product comparison, as I see it:

GGG spinner

• shorter spin time  (presumed)
• uglier knob (opinon)
• only one knob available
• lower everyday price
• higher resolution encoder wheel
• spinner can show in Windows as the  X, Y or Z mouse axis
• device will also connect a trackball, or two additional spinners, steering wheels, etc.
• axis selection made at order- can be changed by user with a soldering iron

SS spinner

• longer spin time  (presumed)
• more attractive knob (opinon)
• multiple knob options available
• higher everyday price (but currently on sale)
• lower resolution encoder wheel
• spinner can show in Windows as the  X or Y mouse axes only, not Z-axis
• device will not connect a trackball, or any additional spinners, steering wheels, etc.
• axis selection made any time- can be changed by user by simply moving a jumper

[divemaster127]

Yes i sell the happ line but as far as the slikstik spinner is concerned, its the same price for everybody from happ , I pay the same price for the slikstik as everyone else does, i was just making a note i have a slikstik on my cab & its a very good product
thanks
dm

[RandyT]

No one had questioned the RandyT product line and as a matter of fact I have made several past statements which were all positive regarding his products.

It

[RandyT]

Yes i sell the happ line but as far as the slikstik spinner is concerned, its the same price for everybody from happ , I pay the same price for the slikstik as everyone else does, i was just making a note i have a slikstik on my cab & its a very good product
thanks
dm

Thank you for confirming that you do indeed offer the product.

RandyT

[JackTucky]

Subliminal messaging makes me want a sandwiich.  And a spinner.  but I don't know which one.

jacktucky

[Necro]

I think you guys should each send me one.  I'll test them both out and that can be the definitive answer.

I'd even give you a quote...like the movie poster/ad ones.

"This spinner is teh r0xx0rz!!!" - Necro

(Oh, and BTW, your both acting like ---goshdarn--- children.  Quit it.  There's some decent info now in this thread about both products so just relax.  SS maybe had a reason to post originally, and took it too far instead of just a professional response.  RT did a great response and now is getting pissed.  Just let it go, please.  CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!...I still think sending me one of each is the best way though.)

Also: recent meeting between RandyT and SS: http://www.viralchart.com/bloodonthecarpet/

hehe

[krick]

Just for the record, I have two Tornado spinners in my cabinet and I love them.
Built like tanks, they are.

I'm also the guy with the (apparently no longer needed) optic board hack page...
http://mame.3feetunder.com/tornadomod/

But now that you've both piqued my interest, where can I find more info about these GGG Spinners that everyone keeps going on about?

I want to see what all the hubub is about.

[GoPodular.com]

That is the point.  More player movement as a result of real data (thus providing accuracy) for less turning of the knob.  Let me try to explain this to you:  If you have an encoder wheel with 48 spokes (which would provide 96 pulses) and 220 possible positions for the player graphic, that is intended to be controlled with 120 degrees of motion then you would need to divide the resolution of the encoder wheel by 3 (360 degrees divided by 120 =3).  This would give you only 32 pulses to represent the 220 positions.  Therefore, the on-screen graphic would have to jump 6.875 positions per pulse (not tooth) of the encoder wheel, which is a ratio of 6.875 to one.  If the sensitivity setting of the game does not offer a sensitivity "boost" of 687.5%, the game cannot be played as intended, even if you are willing to accept the terribly choppy movement.

If anyone does not understand this, please let me know.  I'm not sure I can present it any more simply, but I will try if necessary.

This graphic might help.  Numbers are a little off, but that's what images I have laying around.  You can upsample a lower spoke-count encoder by telling the software to move multiple pixels each spoke ingame, or you can downsample a higher spoke-count encoder by telling the software to move a single pixel every "X" spokes.  One way might give you jumps, the other way might give you a very small dead-zone or possibly stutters if the hardware misses spoke counts with really fast spinning.  Stuttering can be eliminated by increasing the sampling rate.

Of course "the best spinner" would be the exact count for the original game, or some integer multiple of.  That would retain the exact sweep of the original control.  It's possible to figure out just how close each of these are to the originals and the ideal settings in MAME, but it's Saturday night and the frost has melted from my mug.

[Warborg]

No one had questioned the RandyT product line and as a matter of fact I have made several past statements which were all positive regarding his products.

It

[Xam]

Subliminal messaging makes me want a sandwiich.  And a spinner.  but I don't know which one.

jacktucky

You can't go wrong with a grilled cheese! Ham and cheese on wheat is pretty good too. A nice PB and J with a tall glass of milk is great...oh wait...you mean you cannot decide which spinner...

Following this thread from beginning to end my decision has been made.
I will just suffice it to say that I have turned from one product to the other as this thread has a bit of a cat fight feel to itand I wish not to add to it. Kinda reminds you of the peeing contest in elementry school don't it...and who doesn't like watching that?

Xam