New Product: TurboTwist

[RandyT]

Now available in limited quantities as we ramp up production.

I've been hinting at this one for a while, and we were finally able to get all of the parts together for a limited run.  We overshot the target price a bit due to me deciding that adding a little extra cost for a lot of durability was the right thing to do.  When you hold one of these in your hand, I'm sure you'll agree.

Introducing the new TurboTwist

[AllisterFiend]

WOW, you are hard to keep up with. 

I am interested in two units, but I was wondering if you had the foot print of the unit and some other dimensions?

Have to make sure it will fit!

Allister Fiend


P.S.

I tried to look on the website but did not notice it yet.

[RandyT]

Have to make sure it will fit!

Sorry, just updated the feature list with the size data.

RandyT

[divemaster127]

This looks like a very nice spinner reminds me of the slikstik

[Timoe]

$70 with the optiwiz interface?      nice

what is the shaft diameter?  I will likely want to change out my spinner top.  Will my old scholl "mame" logo spinner top work on it?  I think it takes a 1/4" shaft

[markrvp]

Congratulations on another fine product, Randy.

[RandyT]

This looks like a very nice spinner reminds me of the slikstik

Thanks.  But trust me, they are worlds apart.

RandyT

[CheffoJeffo]

NICE!!

Cheers.

[Xiaou2]

 I do not see an encoder wheel...  is its motion directly read from a laser ?

 Enhanced  resolution?  How does this work exactly?   Can the resolution be reduced as well? As some  games you might work better with less resolution.

 

[Zakk]

Very nice!

Aw damn, I drooled all over myself...





*edit* playing nice... 

[quarterback]

Let's all play nice.  I'm sure the slikstik spinner has brought plenty of satisfaction to its users.  I'd hate to see this thread go the direction of other "new product" threads.

Looks very cool Randy.... but out of my price range.  I'll have to stick with my NastySpinner

[RandyT]

I do not see an encoder wheel...  is its motion directly read from a laser ?

No.  There is an encoder wheel situated below the frame.

Enhanced  resolution?  How does this work exactly?   Can the resolution be reduced as well? As some  games you might work better with less resolution.

I don't think that's what I wrote.  But resolution can always be very effectively reduced via software sensitivity.  However, resolution cannot be increased in software. 

Think of it in terms of a digital image.  You can take a 5 megapixel digital photo and reduce it to a 1 megapixel image and it still looks great, just smaller.  That's because there was more than enough data for the algorithm to choose from to retain the image quality.  It just threw away what it didn't need.

Now take the 1 megapixel image and blow it back up to the original 5 megapixel size.  Looks like crap, right?  That's because there isn't enough real data to create an image that large, so much of it is duplicated.

Too much real data is a far, far better situation to be in than too little.

RandyT

[jfunk]

No push/pull?!?!  I'm VERY disappointed..   

JUST KIDDING!  Looks fantastic..  *sigh*  Might have to rethink my control panel, now..  Let's see:

49-ways with GPWiz49s..
Electric Ice buttons with the LEDWizs..
Dual TurboTwist Spinners..

If you sold a trackball, we'd be all set!! 

Jason

[Timoe]

Can the knob be replaced with a knob that takes a traditional 1/4" shaft?

[mahuti]

Congrats on that. Looks like a great product.

I hope it's successful enough that we'll get to see some knob alternatives in the future.

[Mario]

What's the height of the shaft? i.e., can it be used with a 3/4" thick wood panel without needing to reduce the panel thickness? It would be cool if it has a shaft that is adjustable in length to support panels of various thicknesses.

Mario

[Fozzy The Bear]

WOHHHHHHH!!!!!!!    

That is just damned brilliant!!!    Randy does it again! Providing the community with something spectacular at a very reasonable price. So Cool.

It's on my wants list..... now how can I convince my other half to let me buy one I need to find a reason why it's essential to our existance... Tricky!

Randy!! How much is the shipping to the UK on one of these beauties!!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[AllisterFiend]

What's the height of the shaft? i.e., can it be used with a 3/4" thick wood panel without needing to reduce the panel thickness? It would be cool if it has a shaft that is adjustable in length to support panels of various thicknesses.

Mario

Here is what Randy says...

• Adjustable Height.  Can be used on everything from metal panels up to 3/4" wood with overlays.  Just loosen the set screw, pull the shaft to the desired length and re-tighten.

Allister Fiend

[RandyT]

Can the knob be replaced with a knob that takes a traditional 1/4" shaft?

The shaft will accept a standard 1/4" knob.

I will be looking at other knob styles in the future but these will be available as a separate item.

RandyT

[Xiaou2]

 Sounds good.    Good sturdy design.   Price not bad.    Nice spinner knob.

 How does it have such high resolution?  Do you use dual optics?  Very high teeth count on the encoder?  Dual teeth setup?  Dual encoder wheels?



 

[juggle50]

Perfect timing Randy,

Just bought a tornado for a new project
Any chance you can buy just the optical board and would it work on other spinners?

Is it compatible with the minipac?

Looks like an awesome product as usual!!

[RandyT]

Sounds good.    Good sturdy design.   Price not bad.    Nice spinner knob.

 How does it have such high resolution?  Do you use dual optics?  Very high teeth count on the encoder?  Dual teeth setup?  Dual encoder wheels?

Thanks.  The TurboTwist uses a very high resolution encoder wheel, which is coupled with the exceptionally fast Opti-Wiz controller board to make sure it never misses a beat.

Just bought a tornado for a new project
Any chance you can buy just the optical board and would it work on other spinners?

Sorry, none of the parts are interchangeable with other spinners, except maybe the knob

Is it compatible with the minipac?

The TurboTwist is a plug and play device.  It doesn't need any other interfaces, nor will their presence affect its operation.

RandyT

[F1r3f1ght3r]

Killer!

[Fozzy The Bear]

Randy... Sorry mate.. don't know if you misssed it, but what would the shipping to the UK be on one of these please??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Tiger-Heli]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!

[shags]

RandyT.... wow... awesome... will i be able to use 2 TurboTwist's. when will they be ready for shipping, can i get 2...

every time i get my cp "figured Out" one of you guys goes and does something else great....

i may have to order cp parts and NOT read this forum until it is done... lol

[markrvp]

RandyT.... wow... awesome... will i be able to use 2 TurboTwist's?

I'm not Randy, but the answer is yes.  Get one configured for the mouse X axis and the other one configured for the mouse Y axis.

[shags]

thanks mark.....

[Tiger-Heli]

RandyT.... wow... awesome... will i be able to use 2 TurboTwist's?

I'm not Randy, but the answer is yes.  Get one configured for the mouse X axis and the other one configured for the mouse Y axis.

Or you can use the dual mouse features in either MAME Analog Plus or AdvanceMAME (and hopefully soon PowerMAME!!!)

[Fat_Trucker]

Randy... Sorry mate.. don't know if you misssed it, but what would the shipping to the UK be on one of these please??

Any update on this?.

[markrvp]

RandyT.... wow... awesome... will i be able to use 2 TurboTwist's?

I'm not Randy, but the answer is yes.  Get one configured for the mouse X axis and the other one configured for the mouse Y axis.

Or you can use the dual mouse features in either MAME Analog Plus or AdvanceMAME (and hopefully soon PowerMAME!!!)

My way is easier. 

[Tiger-Heli]

My way is easier. 

Yep    , but my way works better if say you were going to have this in individual boxes - ala http://www.cheeptech.com/cuspin.html and wanted to be able to plug either or both in and have them work in all games 

[markrvp]

My way is easier. 

Yep    , but my way works better if say you were going to have this in individual boxes - ala http://www.cheeptech.com/cuspin.html and wanted to be able to plug either or both in and have them work in all games 

I wish I understood even half of what you know about all this stuff.  The software side of all this drives me nuts.  I like big shiny tools that make a lot of sawdust... hey look, a quarter.   

[RandyT]

Randy... Sorry mate.. don't know if you misssed it, but what would the shipping to the UK be on one of these please??

Any update on this?.

Well, we haven't put the whole thing in a box with packing and cable, but I'm going to estimate that shipping to the UK for one unit will be right around $14.75 US, possibly a little less.  Once it is up at the store, the software will let you calculate the postage from the shopping cart screen.  This will give you more exact figures.

RandyT

[GGKoul]

Very Nice!!! 

Any hope of a push/pull version coming anytime soon?  PLEASE!!!

[Captain_Dingo]

Randy,

Do you have any idea how much the whole thing weighs?

Thanks!

[RayB]

will it work in DOS (PS/2 mode)?

[GadgetGeek]

Is the special-edition opti-wiz detachable?  I'm thinking from a swappable panel perspective.  If not, is it bypassable...to connect to a regular opti-wiz?

[RandyT]

Do you have any idea how much the whole thing weighs?

I'm going to say right around a pound.  With packing, it will probably push it over.

will it work in DOS (PS/2 mode)?

If you have a mouse driver for DOS, you shouldn't have a problem.  I haven't researched DOS mouse drivers to look for Z axis support, so you might want to avoid that axis unless you know you have a driver that supports it properly.

Is the special-edition opti-wiz detachable?  I'm thinking from a swappable panel perspective.  If not, is it bypassable...to connect to a regular opti-wiz?

Not sure I follow the question.  Sounds like a special case that might be best handled via an email exchange.


Thanks,
RandyT

[Necro]

Ok, I'm now taking orders.  Let me know the next thing you want Randy to design.  It's gotta be expensive.  I'll order it from someone else, and then Randy will come out with it a few weeks later.

hehe.

Looks nice.

[pointdablame]

Ok, I'm now taking orders.  Let me know the next thing you want Randy to design.  It's gotta be expensive.  I'll order it from someone else, and then Randy will come out with it a few weeks later.

hehe.

Looks nice.

LOL

This is pretty much THE REASON I haven't bought an arcade part in months... I keep hoping Randy will run out of ideas... at least for a little while.  (that and the fact that I don't have any money right now... but the first reason is funnier)

So Randy... are you done for now?  Or are there more new products within the next few weeks?   

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, I'm now taking orders.  Let me know the next thing you want Randy to design.  It's gotta be expensive.  I'll order it from someone else, and then Randy will come out with it a few weeks later.
hehe.
Looks nice.

Repro Star Wars Yoke 
DOT version of Turbo-Twist 
Repro Tron Sticks 
Cheaper Rotary Joystick options 
Edit - Lightgun that works with all games and all screens from less than 5 feet away

[RetroACTIVE]

I'm getting this to replace my Tornado...

I have my spinner right above the trackball, a friend of mine slammed into it playing a golf game... I didn't realize it at first, but the hit popped the upper bearing loose...  Thought he busted his hand...turns out he broke the spinner instead.

I'm excited because I will be moving the trackball interface to the opti-wiz which will eliminate a USB connection...!  mmmm fewer cables...

Thanks Randy

[RandyT]

I'm excited because I will be moving the trackball interface to the opti-wiz which will eliminate a USB connection...!  mmmm fewer cables...

A quick note;  anyone wishing to do this should select the "Z Axis" option when ordering.  Then use the X and Y axes for the trackball as normal.

Because of the very high resolution of the spinner, it will still work well in unmodified MAME builds at low sensitivity settings.  For best results, however, a version with the "Z-Axis fix" is ideal.  I think MikeQ will be adding this to PowerMAME eventually.  For more information on this, take a look at the Opti-Wiz product announcement thread.

BTW, the spinners are now available at the store...

RandyT

[RetroACTIVE]

Because of the very high resolution of the spinner, it will still work well in unmodified MAME builds at low sensitivity settings.  For best results, however, a version with the "Z-Axis fix" is ideal.

Oh definitely... I've been eyeballing all of the Opti-Wiz ...z-axis ...PowerMAME chat for some time now...

Thanks again

[Slope]

I've watched the boards here for awhile and have plans almost done to build my cab...  Ended up take some time off for real life, when I came back I was shocked to see Oscar wasn't here 

Then I ran across this and all seemed well.    My question though is that the control panel I want to make has a trackball and two spinners.  The Opti-Pac could switch between them, can this do something similar?  Basically, how can I hook up a trackball and two of these spinners?

Thanks.

[markrvp]

One way is to use one Optiwiz for your trackball and then use two of these spinners.  Your computer would recognize them as three mice which would all be active at the same time.  Map one spinner to the X axis and one spinner to the Y axis.

[Tiger-Heli]

/|\
 |
 |
 - - - That's a FIFTH way to do it.

I've watched the boards here for awhile and have plans almost done to build my cab...  Ended up take some time off for real life, when I came back I was shocked to see Oscar wasn't here 

Then I ran across this and all seemed well.    My question though is that the control panel I want to make has a trackball and two spinners.  The Opti-Pac could switch between them, can this do something similar?  Basically, how can I hook up a trackball and two of these spinners?

Thanks.

AFAIK - there are no games that used a trackball and a spinner together.  You have to decide how you want the trackball and spinners to operate, but I see 4 possible ways to do it:

1)  Wire the trackball to an Opti-Wiz on the X and Y axes, and the spinners to a second opti-wiz on the X and Y axes - The spinner and trackball will both control the cursor, but since you never use them at the same time . . .

2)  Wire the trackball to an Opti-Wiz on the X and Y axes, and the spinners to the Z axes on the primary and secondary Opti-Wiz's.  With this method, you have to map games to use the spinner instead of the trackball, and you may need something like MAME Analog Plus or Advance MAME for the second Z axes spinner.

3)  Wire the trackball to an Opti-Wiz on the X and Y axes, one spinner to the Z axis on the primary Opti-Wiz, and one spinner to the X axis on the secondary opti-wiz.  (The advantage to this is the second spinner would fight with the trackball, but would work fine for single spinner games, so you would only need to reconfigure dual spinner games (and I don't think you would need a dual-mouse MAME to do so).

4)  I would want RandyT's advice on this, but you might be able to hook up Happ optic boards or the BYO optic boards shown here: http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac4.html or otherwise bypass the "brains" on the Opti-Wiz attached to the TurboTwist's and connect them and the trackball to the Opti-Pac and use it's auto-switching function.

(I might have missed something . . .)

[markrvp]

Is it obvious I'm a gadget guy?  I like lots of shiny things.  The more, the better.

[kkingsto]

Sounds cool.   Will it work with Ultimarc's OptiPac??   

[markrvp]

It could, but you would need to hack the optic sensors to do it.  It is really designed as a stand-alone unit that  can have additional optical devices connected to it, and not the other way around.

[lovespicyfood]

A quick note;  anyone wishing to do this should select the "Z Axis" option when ordering.  Then use the X and Y axes for the trackball as normal.

Oh crud, my "newbieness" is showing...

Randy, I just ordered one of these last night with the "X" axis and it already shipped today.  I was planning on using a trackball with it.  Is there a way for me to modify it myself for "Z" axis or am I going to have to ship it back to you for that modification (and payment of course) or will I just have to re-map in Mame?

Thanks for your help!

[RandyT]

A quick note;  anyone wishing to do this should select the "Z Axis" option when ordering.  Then use the X and Y axes for the trackball as normal.

Randy, I just ordered one of these last night with the "X" axis and it already shipped today.  I was planning on using a trackball with it.  Is there a way for me to modify it myself for "Z" axis or am I going to have to ship it back to you for that modification (and payment of course) or will I just have to re-map in Mame?

If you have a soldering iron and a little solder wick, it's not hard at all.  There are pads that configure the device.  Just use the solder wick to soak up the little bit of solder on the X axis pads and then put a drop on the Z axis pads to bridge them. Even a first time solderer should be able to do this with very little difficulty.

It should be pretty clear what needs to be done when you see the board.

RandyT

[lovespicyfood]

If you have a soldering iron and a little solder wick, it's not hard at all.  There are pads that configure the device.  Just use the solder wick to soak up the little bit of solder on the X axis pads and then put a drop on the Z axis pads to bridge them. Even a first time solderer should be able to do this with very little difficulty.
It should be pretty clear what needs to be done when you see the board.
RandyT

Thanks a lot Randy, that sounds easy!

[AllisterFiend]

I'm excited because I will be moving the trackball interface to the opti-wiz which will eliminate a USB connection...!  mmmm fewer cables...

A quick note;  anyone wishing to do this should select the "Z Axis" option when ordering.  Then use the X and Y axes for the trackball as normal.

Because of the very high resolution of the spinner, it will still work well in unmodified MAME builds at low sensitivity settings.  For best results, however, a version with the "Z-Axis fix" is ideal.  I think MikeQ will be adding this to PowerMAME eventually.  For more information on this, take a look at the Opti-Wiz product announcement thread.

BTW, the spinners are now available at the store...

RandyT

Hey Randy,

  I need a little info on my situation.

I currently have 1 spinner and one trackball on my control panel, I am about to redo my control panel to have 2 spinners and two trackballs.

I want to get rid of the other spinner ( oscar push spinner, never really use the push option) and get 2 of yours.

I would like to have the trackballs working off the optiwiz on the spinners, is this possible, and if so, would I need to get 2 spinners with the "z" axes.


Edit:

I just re-read the comments by tiger-heli and I think I get it now, my real concern was will all this work with two trackballs but I'm sure it will now as long as PowerMAME implements it into their build otherwise I might have to look into MAME Analog Plus (I think that is the name).

Allister Fiend

[saint]

How hard/expensive to switch that to a jumper so that people could easily switch around at will?

A quick note;  anyone wishing to do this should select the "Z Axis" option when ordering.  Then use the X and Y axes for the trackball as normal.

Randy, I just ordered one of these last night with the "X" axis and it already shipped today.  I was planning on using a trackball with it.  Is there a way for me to modify it myself for "Z" axis or am I going to have to ship it back to you for that modification (and payment of course) or will I just have to re-map in Mame?

If you have a soldering iron and a little solder wick, it's not hard at all.  There are pads that configure the device.  Just use the solder wick to soak up the little bit of solder on the X axis pads and then put a drop on the Z axis pads to bridge them. Even a first time solderer should be able to do this with very little difficulty.

It should be pretty clear what needs to be done when you see the board.

RandyT

[RandyT]

How hard/expensive to switch that to a jumper so that people could easily switch around at will?

The problem is board space.  There are two 1/2" wide areas on the board where there can be no thru-components so only the top surface is available.  It is in one of these areas that the axis configuration pads are located.  So the answer is, "very."

However, if one were so inclined, they could attach wires to the board at the pads and hook in a switch.  But I would expect that re-configuration would be done seldom enough that a switch would be a bit of an overkill.

FWIW, I've changed the axis about 5 times on my test unit during development and it took less than 30 seconds each time.

For those who find this type of solder-less configuration desireable for experimentation, or whathaveyou, you may wish to wait until I get the "slave" spinner option up at the store.  It will basically be a brain-less version of the spinner intended for connection to another TurboTwist with a free axis or an Opti-Wiz.  You can try it with other optical interfaces as well, but there is so much data being pumped by the spinner, acceptable results won't be guaranteed on anything other than one of our interfaces.

In any event, you could then connect the "brain-less" spinner to an Opti-Wiz and have it use any axis you want based on the pins you attach it to. This, of course, would be a more expensive way to do this kind of thing, but it's an option.

RandyT

[brandon]

so would it be possible to connect, for example, an Arkanoid spinner as a slave to the TurboTwist?  maybe have the TT be Z and the other X or Y?   

[Xiaou2]

 Currious,  whats the tooth count on the optical encoder?  Any pics of it?  Thanks.

 It would be nice to be able to have an encoder that can select the correct arcade controller "True  tooth ratio".     IE:  A quick count on teeth for my disc's of tron spinner is about 120  for a full knob turn.

  Youve mentioned that the hardware does not miss any signals..  which is very good to hear...   But isnt much  of the  loss caused by windows and the actual game (and or emulator)  programming itself?

 IE:  If  a game is running too slow a frame rate cause  the   pc is underpowered.. and the programmer didnt  take it into  cosideration.. then the  Mouse Polling may be delayed or most likly lost on many occassions....?

 I believe win XP has more frequent most polling than win98se  for instance.   Not sure if  theres a way to speed windows mouse pollings up.

 Any finally, theres a question about direct signal -vs- the way windows mice actually read.   Im just currious if theres a big difference in the way certain arcade machines are reading the optics compared to a typical mouse?   I mean, the mouse itself has a built in processor correct?   Whereas an arcade machine may compute things on the actual PCB - or in software itself?  Maybe in a different way altogether...?

 Ohh, one more... Can a device be turned off temporarily.. maybe via a button press ?  My controlller will have several controls.. and I will want to disable non used controlls in case others are vibrtated into motion.   Im not a fan of the 'sleep' method used in another encoder.

  Maybe use of a special  'function'  button being pressed and combined with other key presses to equal changes in settings for:

* Enable/Disable device... 
* Resolution (simulated tooth count values)  20,52,100,120 (Rolls back to 20..)ect.
* Change Axis   X,Y,Z
 
 Cant think of anything else right now.

 

[RandyT]

so would it be possible to connect, for example, an Arkanoid spinner as a slave to the TurboTwist?  maybe have the TT be Z and the other X or Y?   

While I haven't tried this combination, the Opti-Wiz was tested with an Arkanoid spinner and it worked fine.  I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't do the same with the TurboTwist.

RandyT

[Fozzy The Bear]

Randy... Sorry mate.. don't know if you misssed it, but what would the shipping to the UK be on one of these please??

Any update on this?.

Well, we haven't put the whole thing in a box with packing and cable, but I'm going to estimate that shipping to the UK for one unit will be right around $14.75 US, possibly a little less.  Once it is up at the store, the software will let you calculate the postage from the shopping cart screen.  This will give you more exact figures.

RandyT

Thanks Randy!! I'll be ordering as soon as I can persuade my other half that she really would like one!!     

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[arzoo]

Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the TurboTwist and the Tornado? Will the resolution of either of these spinners accurately simulate the original spinners in games like Tron and Tempest?

[RandyT]

A quick count on teeth for my disc's of tron spinner is about 120  for a full knob turn.

The TurboTwist is higher resolution.

  Youve mentioned that the hardware does not miss any signals..  which is very good to hear...   But isnt much  of the  loss caused by windows and the actual game (and or emulator)  programming itself?

 IE:  If  a game is running too slow a frame rate cause  the   pc is underpowered.. and the programmer didnt  take it into  cosideration.. then the  Mouse Polling may be delayed or most likly lost on many occassions....?

 I believe win XP has more frequent most polling than win98se  for instance.   Not sure if  theres a way to speed windows mouse pollings up.

Windows mouse functions are right up there on the priority list, so the whole system would be experiencing some difficulties before Windows interrupted mouse function.  And 98SE works just fine with no loss.

Also, all hardware is not created equal.  If the hardware is too slow, as is often the case with cheap mouse hacks or overtaxed processors, it will not sense every transition correctly.  The result is most often "backspin."  This is the absolute worst problem because it cannot be easily corrected for.

The issue you mention with the game software is never a real problem.  This is remedied by simply reducing the sensitivity settings.  As the hardware is functioning properly, it's still sending the proper movement information, apparently just too much.  Reducing sensitivity to just below the point where backspin occurs fixes the issue.  Tempest seems to be a title that is most affected by this.

Any finally, theres a question about direct signal -vs- the way windows mice actually read.   Im just currious if theres a big difference in the way certain arcade machines are reading the optics compared to a typical mouse?   I mean, the mouse itself has a built in processor correct?   Whereas an arcade machine may compute things on the actual PCB - or in software itself?  Maybe in a different way altogether...?

There's pretty much only one way to read a quadrature encoder wheel.  The hardware produces a stream of relative positional data derived from the pulse train.  What the software does with it afterwards is up to it, and in the case of emulation the emulator would translate that relative positional data back into the pulse train, so it would be handled pretty close to the original hardware.  In other words, if the original hardware averaged the data from the pulse train, it will still do that.  But a mouse, spinner, trackball and trackroller all make the same data.  There's no magic there.

Ohh, one more... Can a device be turned off temporarily.. maybe via a button press ?  My controlller will have several controls.. and I will want to disable non used controlls in case others are vibrtated into motion.   Im not a fan of the 'sleep' method used in another encoder.

If anyone wants to do this, I can provide information on how to simply add a disable switch to the unit. 

*edit*

The other option is to use a separate axis or use a version of the software and OS that can properly differentiate two mouse controls.  No possibility of interaction between controls this way.  My favorite option would be to use the spinner as the Z axis with a version of MAME that deals with the sensitivity issue.  Not only does it physically separate the axis from the trackball, but it also makes a way nifty scroll wheel for list navigation.

  Maybe use of a special  'function'  button being pressed and combined with other key presses to equal changes in settings for:

* Enable/Disable device... 

Can be handled with a physical switch.

* Resolution (simulated tooth count values)  20,52,100,120 (Rolls back to 20..)ect.

Would be redundant, as virtually all software that uses a mouse for input also has a sensitivity setting which does the same thing.

* Change Axis   X,Y,Z
 

Can already be easily handled with a soldering iron.  The ability to change this often would be most attractive to the "tinkerers" and adding a drop of solder to the board should be no problem for this group.  The other 95% won't care.

I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions, but truthfully, these things have already been considered and the product is the result of those design decisions. 

RandyT

[Havok]

I'm sure I missed something so far, but if you have to solder the OptiWiz to change the X, Y or Z axis support, how do you enable for all three? Would that just be adding another drop (or two) of solder?

I plan on using this spinner and a trackball in the same panel...

[markrvp]

I'm sure I missed something so far, but if you have to solder the OptiWiz to change the X, Y or Z axis support, how do you enable for all three? Would that just be adding another drop (or two) of solder?

I plan on using this spinner and a trackball in the same panel...

The optic sensors are hard wired (soldered) to one axis.  There is a pin header to connect your trackball to the other Axes. 

[Tiger-Heli]

How hard/expensive to switch that to a jumper so that people could easily switch around at will?

The problem is board space.  There are two 1/2" wide areas on the board where there can be no thru-components so only the top surface is available.  It is in one of these areas that the axis configuration pads are located.  So the answer is, "very."

However, if one were so inclined, they could attach wires to the board at the pads and hook in a switch.  But I would expect that re-configuration would be done seldom enough that a switch would be a bit of an overkill.

FWIW, I've changed the axis about 5 times on my test unit during development and it took less than 30 seconds each time.

For those who find this type of solder-less configuration desireable for experimentation, or whathaveyou, you may wish to wait until I get the "slave" spinner option up at the store.  It will basically be a brain-less version of the spinner intended for connection to another TurboTwist with a free axis or an Opti-Wiz.  You can try it with other optical interfaces as well, but there is so much data being pumped by the spinner, acceptable results won't be guaranteed on anything other than one of our interfaces.

In any event, you could then connect the "brain-less" spinner to an Opti-Wiz and have it use any axis you want based on the pins you attach it to. This, of course, would be a more expensive way to do this kind of thing, but it's an option.

RandyT

Mainly directed to RandyT:

Just to throw out some ideas here -
I ASSuME the slave version of the board will not include a microprocessor, correct?

It seems hard for me to tell without owning an actual board, but I did review this thread and the Opti-Wiz thread before posting.

I think I see how it is being configured, but maybe not exactly WHY?

From what I can tell, there are six pairs of bridges on the rear (USB connector side) of the board with each group of pairs labelled X, Y, and Z.  On the Turbo-Twist picture at GGG, it appears that two solder drops are connecting the bridges corresponding to X and to change the axis, one would remove these drops and close the bridges corresponding to Y or Z.

Comment 1 - It would seem that you could make the board with a two-pin header in place of the solder "bridge" pads.  The you could just connect a pair of jumpers to the corresponding pins and accomplish the same thing without needing to solder/desolder.  (I realize this might add more to the cost and labor required to produce the board than it was worth for the benefit received).  I also realize that perhaps this is what Randy meant about the 1/2 inch area that you can't have thru components, so these might need to be surface mount headers (if there is such a thing), or they might need to go through the board, be soldered from the back, and then be insulated to prevent them shorting out against the TurboTwist frame.

Comment 2 - I am not exactly sure how these pads work with the rest of the board - but it would seem like you might be able to bypass the solder pads altogether.  From the Opti-Wiz thread, I ASSuME you are adding some opto-switches and a resistor to the Opti-Wiz to make the PCB for the Turbo-Twist, and I ASSuME the added components are similar to a Happ optic board.   And I think when it comes down to it, there are only two wires from the Happ Optic board that connect to the lower header on the Opti-Wiz.  Would it be possible to run the added components to a two-pin header possibly located somewhere other than the solder bridges, leave the bridges open, and then use a jumper wire to connect the new header to the desired existing two-pin header at the bottom of the TurboTwist PCB?

I'm not saying any of these changes are required, and if RandyT wants to ignore them b/c the product works fine for the majority of users as-is, I agree with that.  Also, all of this was basically stated in other threads, but if it or explaining it steps on proprietary information issues, I understand that as well. . .

[RandyT]

I ASSuME the slave version of the board will not include a microprocessor, correct?

That is correct.  The slave board will basically be a bare board with opto-switches, a resistor and a 4 pin header.  Ground, +5v, XA and XB.

From what I can tell, there are six pairs of bridges on the rear (USB connector side) of the board with each group of pairs labelled X, Y, and Z.  On the Turbo-Twist picture at GGG, it appears that two solder drops are connecting the bridges corresponding to X and to change the axis, one would remove these drops and close the bridges corresponding to Y or Z.

That is also correct.

Comment 1 - It would seem that you could make the board with a two-pin header in place of the solder "bridge" pads.  The you could just connect a pair of jumpers to the corresponding pins and accomplish the same thing without needing to solder/desolder.  (I realize this might add more to the cost and labor required to produce the board than it was worth for the benefit received).  I also realize that perhaps this is what Randy meant about the 1/2 inch area that you can't have thru components, so these might need to be surface mount headers (if there is such a thing), or they might need to go through the board, be soldered from the back, and then be insulated to prevent them shorting out against the TurboTwist frame.

These units are already very labor intensive.  Every part has a cost associated with it, and it only begins with the purchase price.  If I calculated the time it takes to do these from start to finish, I would probably kick myself for offering them at the current price. 

But cost isn't the only reason.  There can be absolutely nothing between the boards and the frame.  An optical arrangement with this kind of resolution allows for very little error in positioning.  The variable distance created by residual solder would be a nightmare to account for.

Comment 2 - I am not exactly sure how these pads work with the rest of the board - but it would seem like you might be able to bypass the solder pads altogether.  From the Opti-Wiz thread, I ASSuME you are adding some opto-switches and a resistor to the Opti-Wiz to make the PCB for the Turbo-Twist, and I ASSuME the added components are similar to a Happ optic board.   And I think when it comes down to it, there are only two wires from the Happ Optic board that connect to the lower header on the Opti-Wiz.  Would it be possible to run the added components to a two-pin header possibly located somewhere other than the solder bridges, leave the bridges open, and then use a jumper wire to connect the new header to the desired existing two-pin header at the bottom of the TurboTwist PCB?

I can talk any user through getting the results they want from the device if they have "special needs." 

There are many ways to skin the same proverbial cat, but none of them are free.  They all have costs associated with them in board space, parts cost and labor.  I already came in $10 higher than I projected because I chose to bump up the quality on a couple of the components.  These were functional improvements that actually added value to the product, not convenience frills. 

And as you stated, none of what is being discussed is required, nor does it's absence make the product any less functional.   Honestly,. these types of discussions are akin to suggesting to IL that their "Competition" joysticks should have had a switch on them to make them 4/8 way switchable.  Anyone done that lately?

There's something that just goes against my grain when it comes to adding a feature that very few people will consider important, yet everyone pays more for.  I'd rather use that capital to improve the core functionality of the device and keep the cost low, something that everyone who uses it will benefit from.

But that's just me

RandyT

[19rjs99]

Only 1 left on the web site right now... I already ordered mine 

Can wait for some knob options Randy.

Bob

[Tiger-Heli]

Honestly,. these types of discussions are akin to suggesting to IL that their "Competition" joysticks should have had a switch on them to make them 4/8 way switchable.  Anyone done that lately?

Seems like you did with the Prodigy (not based on the Comp's, though.)  And they listened to someone complaining about it when they came out with the stick that became the T-Stick.   

There's something that just goes against my grain when it comes to adding a feature that very few people will consider important, yet everyone pays more for.  I'd rather use that capital to improve the core functionality of the device and keep the cost low, something that everyone who uses it will benefit from.

Point taken - And much appreciated!!! 

[RandyT]

Ok, the first 9 I had available are gone!!  The last of them shipped yesterday.

I'll be working on the next batch over the weekend and hopefully have some more available by early next week.

Depending on the work load of my machinist, these are liable to be the last ones available for a week or two.  But who knows, he may surprise me.

I'll keep everyone updated.

RandyT

[farmecologist]

Randy, I understand that your spinner has many more expansion capabilities than the tornado spinner.  It looks really nice!

However, if I ONLY consider the spinner functionality, what are the differences?  In my experience, for many games such as Arkanoid, *any* non-geared spinner, regardless of the sensitivity, will not give you the correct 'feel' while playing the game.  I take it this is also true with your spinner? 

Thanks Randy!

[97thruhiker]

Considering you shipped mine out yesterday I guess I one of the original nine to purchase a TurboTwist  !

[RandyT]

Randy, I understand that your spinner has many more expansion capabilities than the tornado spinner.  It looks really nice!

However, if I ONLY consider the spinner functionality, what are the differences?  In my experience, for many games such as Arkanoid, *any* non-geared spinner, regardless of the sensitivity, will not give you the correct 'feel' while playing the game.  I take it this is also true with your spinner? 

The major stumbling block for spinners with Arkanoid has been the lack of resolution.  I did a fairly complete analysis of the control situation with that title in another thread found here.  I had to operate from a few assumptions, but it seems to add up.  The only thing I am not sure about is whether the game actually uses all of the resolution the control provided.  It's possible that it was averaged somehow.

While the resolution of the TurboTwist isn't at the same level as an Arkanoid spinner, it's still much higher than any other conventional spinner.  This makes a game like Arkanoid very playable.  I certainly do not consider the TurboTwist to "suck" for this game .  The feel and performance are different from other spinners.

There are other things to be concerned about with a a title like this and those are inertia and momentum.  If a spinner has a heavy flywheel and spins too freely, it will be difficult to prevent overshoot.  The spinner will want to continue spinning past the point where you attempt to stop it.  Somewhere along the line the community has been fed the incorrect notion that a desirable trait is one where the spinner will spin "forever" with one spin of the control, when in fact, all that does is make them more difficult to control.  More than 8 or 9 revolutions are unnecessary as no game requires this type of motion for effective control.  If you find that the spinners you have tried have too much resistance when beginning a move, or are difficult to stop precisely where you want them to, they suffer from the aforementioned problems.

As for the physical "dead stop" and "specific resistance" properties of the Arkanoid control itself, no spinner is going to be able to do that while being a good spinner for any number of other titles where those properties would make the games unplayable.  Well, unless you wanted to pay $200 or more for the contraption and have it take up much more space on your panel .  The TurboTwist has been balanced to provide playability in all genres of games.  I can pretty much guarantee that no spinner or paddle game will be unplayable with this control.

So, at the "end of the day" this is going to be the answer:  If you are a dyed-in-the-wool Arkanoid fan, there is only going to be one control that will ever be satisfactory to you, and that is the original control.  It won't do you any good for the majority of other titles, so you'll need to plan on having a two spinners on the panel.   Everyone else, will most likely be happy with the compromise the TurboTwist can provide.

RandyT

[shmokes]

RandyT,

Been ages since I visited your site.  I don't know when it happened, but nice site redesign.  It's MUCH MUCH better.

[RandyT]

RandyT,

Been ages since I visited your site.  I don't know when it happened, but nice site redesign.  It's MUCH MUCH better.

Thanks Shmokes.  That was a lot nicer than the usual kick in the teeth

(just kidding!!!!)

I'm still working on it when I can.  If you or anyone have any suggestions (other than "more info"..that's a given ) please feel free to send them to me.

Thanks,

RandyT

[mahuti]

Hah... open critique request with a designer present. Prepare for the bloodbath.

Just kiddin.


How bout a picture of the control panel clamp set?

[Havok]

Hey Randy, what kind of timeframe do you think you are looking at before getting these in stock again?

[97thruhiker]

Installed my Groovy Game Gear Spinner spinner on my control panel today.  So far I am very happy with my purchase.  Build quality seems very high and the few games I've played have been wonderful (first time I've played Tempest with a spinner in over twenty years!).  Also Outrun and Super Sprint played great right out of the box. 

[Kremmit]

Pictures, please.  Encoder wheel.

[RandyT]

Pictures, please.  Encoder wheel.

Here, let me get that for you.....

RandyT

[Major Rock Hardy]

Somewhere along the line the community has been fed the incorrect notion that a desirable trait is one where the spinner will spin "forever" with one spin of the control, when in fact, all that does is make them more difficult to control.

I have always wondered about this too... seems like a marketing point for slikstik and perhaps further propagated by Retroblast in the "spinner roundup":
http://retroblast.com/reviews/roundup7.html

(which, by the way, needs to be re-revisited, right Randy?)

ridiculous, IMHO

The TurboTwist has been balanced to provide playability in all genres of games.  I can pretty much guarantee that no spinner or paddle game will be unplayable with this control.

oh please, tell me someone has tested this w/ Warlords and it is SWEEEEET....

Randy, that encoder wheel kinda looks like one of those old printer daisy wheels   Just kidding

[RandyT]

oh please, tell me someone has tested this w/ Warlords and it is SWEEEEET....

Somehow I forgot about that one.... and is it ever! 

Randy, that encoder wheel kinda looks like one of those old printer daisy wheels   Just kidding

<shudder>   

RandyT

[brandon]

wow.. that encoder wheel has lots of "fins" on it..  one could assume that it might be more precise than other spinners.. perhaps even 3 times more so..      (sorry.. I couldn't resist)

[19rjs99]

Well, I got mine this weekend. My CP isn't read for it yet so, I will have to test it tonight on it's own. I have to add that I like the construction and it seems very solid, however it definately needs a new knob. My knob has a wobble to it. It is definatley the knob because the shaft is straight. and doesn't wobble.

Randy, any plans on a new knob soon? I don't want to support SS after their attack in the other thread. Thanks for a great product.

Bob

[farmecologist]

Randy, I understand that your spinner has many more expansion capabilities than the tornado spinner.  It looks really nice!

However, if I ONLY consider the spinner functionality, what are the differences?  In my experience, for many games such as Arkanoid, *any* non-geared spinner, regardless of the sensitivity, will not give you the correct 'feel' while playing the game.  I take it this is also true with your spinner? 

The major stumbling block for spinners with Arkanoid has been the lack of resolution.  I did a fairly complete analysis of the control situation with that title in another thread found here.  I had to operate from a few assumptions, but it seems to add up.  The only thing I am not sure about is whether the game actually uses all of the resolution the control provided.  It's possible that it was averaged somehow.

While the resolution of the TurboTwist isn't at the same level as an Arkanoid spinner, it's still much higher than any other conventional spinner.  This makes a game like Arkanoid very playable.  I certainly do not consider the TurboTwist to "suck" for this game .  The feel and performance are different from other spinners.

There are other things to be concerned about with a a title like this and those are inertia and momentum.  If a spinner has a heavy flywheel and spins too freely, it will be difficult to prevent overshoot.  The spinner will want to continue spinning past the point where you attempt to stop it.  Somewhere along the line the community has been fed the incorrect notion that a desirable trait is one where the spinner will spin "forever" with one spin of the control, when in fact, all that does is make them more difficult to control.  More than 8 or 9 revolutions are unnecessary as no game requires this type of motion for effective control.  If you find that the spinners you have tried have too much resistance when beginning a move, or are difficult to stop precisely where you want them to, they suffer from the aforementioned problems.

As for the physical "dead stop" and "specific resistance" properties of the Arkanoid control itself, no spinner is going to be able to do that while being a good spinner for any number of other titles where those properties would make the games unplayable.  Well, unless you wanted to pay $200 or more for the contraption and have it take up much more space on your panel .  The TurboTwist has been balanced to provide playability in all genres of games.  I can pretty much guarantee that no spinner or paddle game will be unplayable with this control.

So, at the "end of the day" this is going to be the answer:  If you are a dyed-in-the-wool Arkanoid fan, there is only going to be one control that will ever be satisfactory to you, and that is the original control.  It won't do you any good for the majority of other titles, so you'll need to plan on having a two spinners on the panel.   Everyone else, will most likely be happy with the compromise the TurboTwist can provide.

RandyT

Ok, that's what I thought.   I just wanted to make the point that even though your spinner has higher resolution, it probably isn't the answer for Arkanoid ( and clones ).   Also, it seems to me that much of the 'feel' of the original Arkanoid spinner is due to the physical characteristics of the geared mechanism.

That being said, I still might try one out!   If anyone has installed the spinner and has tried out Arkanoid, please post a review!

Thanks!

[RandyT]

Well, I got mine this weekend. My CP isn't read for it yet so, I will have to test it tonight on it's own. I have to add that I like the construction and it seems very solid, however it definately needs a new knob. My knob has a wobble to it. It is definatley the knob because the shaft is straight. and doesn't wobble.

Randy, any plans on a new knob soon?

I'm afraid the knobs are the best I could do for the money I had allotted for them in the price.  Consider them a "freebie" knob as the other option, I'm afraid, was not to include one.  They feel and work great for gameplay, but they aren't the prettiest.  You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to find a decent knob for an application like this without making your own ($$) or paying for a custom run ($$$).  I probably spent $100 on different knobs for testing before settling on this one.

If anyone has any suggestions for sources of decent stock knobs they may have purchased in the past, please feel free to forward them to me.

That being said, my machinist has informed me that I just need to get a design to him and he can turn some for me on the CNC.  That means at least a couple of weeks, unfortunately.  But I do have a few cool ideas

RandyT

[screaming]

I'm sure I'm goign to get some snarling behind some monitors for making this comment, but.. Since the SS spinner top is easily removeable, could the SS top fit on the GGG spinner?

Secondly, to those that have a GGG spinner (and maybe RandyT could comment?), how much trouble does it look like you'd have to go through to add push and/or push/pull functionality to the spinner?  The link eludes me now, but didn't someone do this to an Oscar spinner or something?

[pointdablame]

I'm sure I'm goign to get some snarling behind some monitors for making this comment, but.. Since the SS spinner top is easily removeable, could the SS top fit on the GGG spinner?

I believe it was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but yeah, they should work fine.

Secondly, to those that have a GGG spinner (and maybe RandyT could comment?), how much trouble does it look like you'd have to go through to add push and/or push/pull functionality to the spinner?  The link eludes me now, but didn't someone do this to an Oscar spinner or something?

Oscar made a Push/Pull spinner, but I don't recall someone retrofitting one... I could be wrong though.  From the pictures, it seems like it would be a bit of work to get that done.  But I don't have a GGG spinner yet, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

[Witchboard]

Here's a question.  Will the encoder wheels by themselves be available for purchase?  I didn't read all the technical stuff so I'm not sure if the high resolution benefit is reliant on both the encoder wheel and the optic board, or just the wheel.  If it's just the wheel, it would be nice to upgrade my existing spinner.

[RandyT]

Ok, that's what I thought.   I just wanted to make the point that even though your spinner has higher resolution, it probably isn't the answer for Arkanoid ( and clones ).   Also, it seems to me that much of the 'feel' of the original Arkanoid spinner is due to the physical characteristics of the geared mechanism.

I'm not sure if it's the "answer" but it's a helluva good "guess"

Here's a trick for the die-hard Arkanoid fan:

Take a TurboTwist spinner and tie a lightly oiled leather shoelace around the body so it rides the metal cylinder at about center.  Adjust the tension on the leather so that the spinner turns easily, but stops dead when you remove force. 

Believe it or not, this works pretty well.  Don't bother with rubber or elastic materials as it adds spring (no good)

RandyT

[RandyT]

Here's a question.  Will the encoder wheels by themselves be available for purchase?  I didn't read all the technical stuff so I'm not sure if the high resolution benefit is reliant on both the encoder wheel and the optic board, or just the wheel.  If it's just the wheel, it would be nice to upgrade my existing spinner.

All components of the TurboTwist

[markrvp]

1up did the up/down hack:

[Kremmit]

Mark's Pic-Fu is weak.

[screaming]

1up did the up/down hack:

  Yes yes. that's who it was. I had it saved somewhere in my grand pile o' links..

  Anyway, I wonder how hackable the GGG spinner is? I'm hoping to at least get "push" functionality. Anyone who has a GGG spinner willing to comment on the possibility after taking a look at 1up's great work?

[Xiaou2]

 wow,  i didnt expect that the encoder wheel was (laser?)  printed.

 However... the question is... How it the encoder wheel centered?

 Are you having them laser cut?   As if the center hole is off by just a tiny bit,  it may greatly mess up the tracking from the resulting wobble motion.   

 Also, if someone were to loosen the screw..  and then re-tighten it... would the allignment still be perfect?   Meaning...  Is there any  'play'   between  the
encoder hole  and  the screw shaft?   

[SirPoonga]

I'm afraid the knobs are the best I could do for the money I had allotted for them in the price.  Consider them a "freebie" knob as the other option, I'm afraid, was not to include one.  They feel and work great for gameplay, but they aren't the prettiest.  You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to find a decent knob for an application like this without making your own ($$) or paying for a custom run ($$$).  I probably spent $100 on different knobs for testing before settling on this one.

Do you use the same shaft size at slikstik?  Then one would have a choice of many different styles and colors for knobs.

[RandyT]

However... the question is... How it the encoder wheel centered?

 Are you having them laser cut?   As if the center hole is off by just a tiny bit,  it may greatly mess up the tracking from the resulting wobble motion.   

 Also, if someone were to loosen the screw..  and then re-tighten it... would the allignment still be perfect?   Meaning...  Is there any  'play'   between  the
encoder hole  and  the screw shaft?   

The encoder wheels are made from multiple materials and are the result of a 10-step process.  They are very securely attached and 100% properly aligned.

There is never any reason to disassemble the unit, so the questions aren't really relevant.

RandyT

[brandon]

1up did the up/down hack:

  Yes yes. that's who it was. I had it saved somewhere in my grand pile o' links..

  Anyway, I wonder how hackable the GGG spinner is? I'm hoping to at least get "push" functionality. Anyone who has a GGG spinner willing to comment on the possibility after taking a look at 1up's great work?

I dont own the GGG spinner but I could think of a few ways that it and the SS spinner could be push/pull.   You do it similar to what 1up did having the spinner "samwiched" between springs... but instead of two on the spinner shaft you could use eight.  One pair of springs for each mounting bolt.   Then you could use the same type switch actuators to tell when the spinner moves up and down.. i dunno.. it could work..   Here's what I'm thinking..

[screaming]

I dont own the GGG spinner but I could think of a few ways that it and the SS spinner could be push/pull.   You do it similar to what 1up did having the spinner "samwiched" between springs... but instead of two on the spinner shaft you could use eight.  One pair of springs for each mounting bolt.   Then you could use the same type switch actuators to tell when the spinner moves up and down.. i dunno.. it could work..   Here's what I'm thinking..

  Good idea.. that way the spinner mechanics don't even come into the equation.  I'll file this idea away until I'm ready to implement it. Great idea!

[brandon]

  Good idea.. that way the spinner mechanics don't even come into the equation.  I'll file this idea away until I'm ready to implement it. Great idea!

yeah that's what I was thinking.. because the "axle" of the spinner wouldn't be effected at all so it should spin just like normal.  Perhaps GGG or SS could incorporate this into a future model by having the springs and all preassembled to a nice mounting plate instead of to the control panel as in my drawing.  Perhaps they could also send me a freebie for giving them my idea royalty-free 

[Havok]

Looks like a good idea in theory, but I would think you would have to be careful and make sure the outer diameter of the bolts exactly (or closely) matches the diameter of the mounting holes, otherwise you will have a wobbly spinner.

Good thing I don't like DOT...

<Havok ducks>

[rackoon]

OK I'm building a three sided cab that is going to have two (trackballs and a tornado spinner) run through an optipac. I have purchased my trackballs from poneyboy and was waiting to payday to buy a spinner and optipac or optiwiz. Then this comes out, Wow good timing. I have read all pages of this post and have one last question.

Can I save my self some money go with your spinner and skip buying a optiwiz or optipac? I suppose that the trackballs and spinner will all be active at the same time though. But couldn't I just have wired them all together anyway without your spinner board?

By the way I comend your creative products. It keeps the hobby fresh with ideas.

[NoOne=NBA=]

There is never any reason to disassemble the unit, so the questions aren't really relevant.

C'mon Randy, you know us better than that.
When have we ever needed a REASON to disassemble something?
It just being there is reason enough for most of us.

For me personally, the proper question would be "How do I put (insert name of completely functional device here) back together properly WHEN I disassemble it?".
"If" isn't really in the equation.
"Should I disassemble it" never usually occurs to me until AFTER it's been disassembled.

I've been like that since I ripped the giraffe off my jack-in-the-box at about age 3.
It annoyed me that I couldn't figure out how it worked, so I killed it to find out.

That was actually a functional improvement though.
I could chase my sister around the house after that, and SHOOT her with the giraffe.
I think she still visibly cringes when she hears "Pop Goes the Weasel" to this day.

[screaming]

  Good idea.. that way the spinner mechanics don't even come into the equation.  I'll file this idea away until I'm ready to implement it. Great idea!

yeah that's what I was thinking.. because the "axle" of the spinner wouldn't be effected at all so it should spin just like normal.  Perhaps GGG or SS could incorporate this into a future model by having the springs and all preassembled to a nice mounting plate instead of to the control panel as in my drawing.  Perhaps they could also send me a freebie for giving them my idea royalty-free 

  Hey I just thought of something.  What kind of clearance is there between the spinner box and the bottom of the spinner knob?

  You'll probably have to use a router and cut away some of the mdf (like you might do for mounting the trackball), which could affect stability (esp with people pounding on the spinner).  Hmm. I think you might need to make a mounting bracket of sorts to keep it strong.

[RandyT]

Can I save my self some money go with your spinner and skip buying a optiwiz or optipac? I suppose that the trackballs and spinner will all be active at the same time though. But couldn't I just have wired them all together anyway without your spinner board?

rackoon,

Please send me an email on how you are going to set up everything and we can sort through your options from there.

and everyone else;

Please give me any and all info you might have about "push-pull" spinners, like links to the original controls, how much push/pull force and or distance is required, etc...

I'm afraid I have to plead ignorance on this kind of control.  I loved DOT, but can't remember the control because I didn't have the opportunity to play it much (it wasn't around places I had access to, and it was one of the first 2 token games, as I recall, and I had a 1 token budget )

Thanks,
RandyT

[Captain_Dingo]

Funny, I had the exact same idea as brandon had, but in order to gain a bit of stability, I had an extra plate at the bottom (see my butchered version of brandon's picture).

Since I don't have the parts in front of me, I can only speculate if the clearances are sufficient to allow this to work.  If more clearance is needed, metal plates can be added to expand the footprint of the top and bottom piece of the spinner frame, and the long rods could be run through holes in the corners of those plates.

There are several places and several ways to mount a couple of microswitches to register the up/down motion.

[RandyT]

For me personally, the proper question would be "How do I put (insert name of completely functional device here) back together properly WHEN I disassemble it?".
"If" isn't really in the equation.
"Should I disassemble it" never usually occurs to me until AFTER it's been disassembled.

Heh.  Ok, take my statement as the answer to your self-posed "Should I disassemble it" question   If you are one of those people who can thread a needle on the first try and tell how many board feet of lumber were used to make the beer barrel the midget is sitting on in the photograph, then feel free to play.  Everyone else, should probably just leave it working .

I've been like that since I ripped the giraffe off my jack-in-the-box at about age 3.
It annoyed me that I couldn't figure out how it worked, so I killed it to find out.

That was actually a functional improvement though.
I could chase my sister around the house after that, and SHOOT her with the giraffe.
I think she still visibly cringes when she hears "Pop Goes the Weasel" to this day.

LOL.  I love it.  As someone who only had sisters as siblings, I can attest to the fact that there was little more entertaining than making them wish they only had sisters for siblings  .


I can almost hear the sounds of hacking already, so I'll jump in.  The top frame portion of the unit is 1/2" thick and it has 4 very nicely milled holes all the way through.  So the sharper amongst you will probably realize that the addition of 4 ground drill rods of the correct diameter and some white lithium grease will essentially create a very nice slide.  The thickness of the material will prevent rocking, so this shouldn't be a concern.

I will look at the possibility of this approach as an "add-on" kit, as soon as I find some information on the original control to see if approximation of its operation is possible.

Thanks for the suggestions.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

If anyone has any suggestions for sources of decent stock knobs they may have purchased in the past, please feel free to forward them to me.

Some guy named OscarControls made a really cool one with the MAME logo on it and all . . .   

Seriously - go to www.mcmaster.com - Search on knobs - Click Control Knobs - Click Control Knobs again - Click Comfort Grip Control Knobs - Look at Knob Number 5 - Looks like a good Arkanoid replacement.

Alternately, click Click Control Knobs - Click Control Knobs again - Click Fits Round shafts - Knobs 9, 10, 11, and 20 look like good Tempest knobs, and knobs 24 and 25 look like good general purpose knobs.

Someone with better link-fu than me might come up with a tiny url for those.

(It pays to have been around this scene since the Fultra spinner days).

Re: the original DOT spinner, see  the annoucement thread by OSCAR on the repro - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=6411.0 , as well as the www.archive.org version of his site (if it comes up).

If I had a complaint with OSCAR, it was that his controls were too accurate to the original, as opposed to working better but not as faithful, but in this case that might be helpful as I know his DOT was supposed to work as a drop-in replacement.  I also know he had access to an original DOT and think he may have discussed that in the referenced thread or similar announcement threads, so you could find info from them as well.

[JoyMonkey]

Seriously - go to www.mcmaster.com - Search on knobs - Click Control Knobs - Click Control Knobs again - Click Comfort Grip Control Knobs - Look at Knob Number 5 - Looks like a good Arkanoid replacement.

I did the exact same thing yesterday. I would have mentioned it, but I figured it would have been the first place Randy checked too. Maybe not.

[mahuti]

RandyT, I have an oscar DOT spinner that you could borrow for a while if it'd help. Otherwise, I can just relate its mechanics and take photos. 

[RandyT]

Seriously - go to www.mcmaster.com - Search on knobs - Click Control Knobs - Click Control Knobs again - Click Comfort Grip Control Knobs - Look at Knob Number 5 - Looks like a good Arkanoid replacement.

I did the exact same thing yesterday. I would have mentioned it, but I figured it would have been the first place Randy checked too. Maybe not.

Thanks for the suggestion, guys.  But that's where these come from .  I have one of the small "comfort grip" knobs, but they still seem too big in diameter.  They look nice, but the ideal 1.25" grip just isn't there (it's amazing what a quarter inch does to the feel of a control)

On another note, I finished the first knob design and it has been sent to the machinist.  I'll do a nice rendering and post it here for the usual "I think it sucks / when can I get one" 

RandyT, I have an oscar DOT spinner that you could borrow for a while if it'd help. Otherwise, I can just relate its mechanics and take photos. 

Thanks mahuti.  Another user was kind enough to forward a link to some pretty good pictures of the original unit, so I think I have some decent info.  Well, at least enough to know that I never want to use the design of the original   But I did see that the throw of the up/down isn't very far.

I already have a few ideas on the kit.   At this point, I really think it's possible to this with a handful of the right hardware and a couple of switches.  Finding the right hardware seems to be the challenge currently.

RandyT

[markrvp]

I'll do a nice rendering and post it here for the usual "I think it sucks / when can I get one" 

Ha Ha    Ha Ha    Ha Ha    Ha Ha    Ha Ha

Isn't that the damn truth?

[RandyT]

Ok, I just whipped up a rendering of the design I sent to the machinist.  Here it is:

This was my cool surprise.  The center of the knob will accept your favorite .984 diameter tokens like the ones Santoro is selling.  I purchased a bunch of these with this in mind so long ago, it isn't even funny.  I think the design on token shows the age.

As long as Saint and Santoro don't mind, I will be able to include a token in them.  But if anyone associated with them has objections, You will need to epoxy one in yourselves.

So....opinions?

RandyT

[pointdablame]

Very cool idea!  You could potentially swap in different tokens whenever you want if you offered a non-epoxied version.

Are the rings on the side rubberized, or just a design of the aluminum (or whatever it's made of)??

[RandyT]

Very cool idea!  You could potentially swap in different tokens whenever you want if you offered a non-epoxied version.

Are the rings on the side rubberized, or just a design of the aluminum (or whatever it's made of)??

Thanks.  And yes, one could use some thin temporary doublesticky to hold it in.

The rings are the material of the spinner.  If a user wanted to place some thin o-tings in the grooves between, that would be up to them.

RandyT

[AllisterFiend]

Great Idea Randy,

Will there ever be one in black?

My control panel is just all black and I think it would look good if I put one of my nickel tokens on the knob.


Allister Fiend

[Fozzy The Bear]

Hi Randy,
                 Are the tops of these the same size as a US Quarter.... I was thinking maybe glue one of those in....

I got given one in change the other day here in the UK Grrrr!.  They're almost identical in size to a UK 10 pence piece. Slightly thinner, but the diameter is the same.  For someone in the UK having a quarter in the top of the spinner is quite a cool idea. Although I'd guess that most Americans are asking why anybody would want to do that. LOL  

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[markrvp]

That sucks; how soon can I buy one?   

[Santoro]

I love it, no objections here.  Saint?

[Warborg]

Ok, I just whipped up a rendering of the design I sent to the machinist.  Here it is:

This was my cool surprise.  The center of the knob will accept your favorite .987 diameter token like the one Santoro is selling.  I purchased a buch of these with this in mind so long ago, it isn't even funny.  I think the design on token shows the age.

As long as Saint and Santoro don't mind, I will be able to include a token in them.  But if anyone associated with them has objections, You will need to epoxy one in yourselves.

So....opinions?

RandyT

Uhm...  Can I order one tonight? 

As someone else had asked, will these be available in black?

And I want one with the token in it, just as it's pictured... 

[RandyT]

Will there ever be one in black?

My control panel is just all black and I think it would look good if I put one of my nickel tokens on the knob.

I think the first batch will be stainless, but I will be looking at other materials and finishes.  Some nice gunblue or black-oxide coated steel could be cool with the nickel tokens (I have some of those kind as well.)

Hi Randy,
                 Are the tops of these the same size as a US Quarter.... I was thinking maybe glue one of those in....

I got given one in change the other day here in the UK Grrrr!.  They're almost identical in size to a UK 10 pence piece. Slightly thinner, but the diameter is the same.  For someone in the UK having a quarter in the top of the spinner is quite a cool idea. Although I'd guess that most Americans are asking why anybody would want to do that. LOL 

Not a bad idea.  But a U.S. Quarter is smaller by about .040".  Which means it will fit, but will have a small gap around it (and you'll need to center it in the recess.)

RandyT

[Fozzy The Bear]

Not a bad idea.  But a U.S. Quarter is smaller by about .040".  Which means it will fit, but will have a small gap around it (and you'll need to center it in the recess.)

RandyT

Fair enough.... It'd still look good.... Especially if I glue it in place with some coloured resin, that would then fill the gap round the edge as well ... Maybe a nice blue to match my control panel.

I'll be up for one of these

Now to persuade my other half to let me have the spinner to go with it LOL

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[JODY]

RandyT...when I order one of these I'd like to also get an extra OptiWiz with the encoder optics and a spare encoder wheel to mount to the end of a steering wheel shaft I bought on Ebay that came missing some parts.  I got some payment back from the seller and was planning on buying the parts from Oscar.  Think the higher resolution would benefit...   Do you plan to sell encoder wheels separate and the OptiWiz with the encoder optics?

[saint]

Looks ... er... groovy to me  

I love it, no objections here.  Saint?

[whammoed]

Randy, if you go with stainless steel do you think it will affect the way the spinner feels?  In other words will there be too much mass to it with both a shaft weight and a steel knob?  I would think there would be an optimal mass that gives the spinner a nice feel but still allows for a quick change in direction.

[RandyT]

Randy, if you go with stainless steel do you think it will affect the way the spinner feels?  In other words will there be too much mass to it with both a shaft weight and a steel knob?  I would think there would be an optimal mass that gives the spinner a nice feel but still allows for a quick change in direction.

I'll be watching for that when I start getting some parts in.  I always get a few proof parts to make sure things will work ok.

I have him quoting an aluminum one as well, and I might crank up the molding equipment and try some resin ones for kicks.

On the other hand, the stainless might end up being a good way to add a little more weight for one who actually preferred a heavier feel.

Thanks,
RandyT

[Fozzy The Bear]

On the other hand, the stainless might end up being a good way to add a little more weight for one who actually preferred a heavier feel.

I vote stainless, as long as the price is good. .... Those early Atari spinners were very heavy things, that's the feel I want on my spinner.  There's a couple of other bits and bobs I need at the moment, so I'm going to hang fire ordering until these are ready to ship.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[squirrellydw]

Any plans on making one that lights up or glow??

[Kremmit]

Any plans on making one that lights up or glow??

 

[RandyT]

Any plans on making one that lights up or glow??

Kremmit gave me a interesting thought on an approach for this and it is being considered.  The hard part about getting great suggestions is that they can't all be worked on at once

RandyT


Hehe, he beat me to it

[Kremmit]

I keep telling you, I'm always ahead on these things.   

[brophog]

I'm glad I left that extra space on my control panel. I'll be watching this thread VERY closely!

[aumameman]

Any plans on making one that lights up or glow??

THAT WOULD BE PRETTY COOL! I THINK FOR BEST RESULTS THE TOKEN SHOULD BE ALREADY SEALED IN THE SPINNER TOP.

[pointdablame]

THAT WOULD BE PRETTY COOL! I THINK FOR BEST RESULTS THE TOKEN SHOULD BE ALREADY SEALED IN THE SPINNER TOP.

[Tiger-Heli]

COOL IDEA RANDY!!!  THINGS I LIKE - FINISH LOOKS GOOD - TOKEN INSERT IS COOL - GROOVES ON SIDE ALLOW FOR O-RINGS IF SOMEONE WANTS THAT FEEL -

PREFER BLACK OXIDE OVER GUN BLUE, IF YOU START ON DIFFERENT COLORS.  PREFER STAINLESS OVER ALUMINUM (I THINK).

Ooops - To PDB - I didn't have Caps Lock on - I just held down the Shift key - Worked just as well.

[pointdablame]

Ooops - To PDB - I didn't have Caps Lock on - I just held down the Shift key - Worked just as well.

Bah... now I need a second picture

[Kremmit]

Ooops - To PDB - I didn't have Caps Lock on - I just held down the Shift key - Worked just as well.

Bah... now I need a second picture

Your second picture is right there, under your name.

[southpaw13]

Spinners are sold out....
When is the next run going to be available?

[PoDunkMoFo]

I keep telling you, I'm always ahead on these things.   

It's true...  This is the guy that foresaw the Afterburner Cockpit shortage of 2012.   

[RandyT]

Looks ... er... groovy to me  

I love it, no objections here.  Saint?

Great.  Thanks to everyone involved in that one. Pixelhugger was the last one I need an OK from and he's cool with it as well.

So that means I'll be able to offer them with the tokens pre-mounted as well as "bare" for you to put your own in.

The bad news is my machinist buddy just had a death in the family (elderly mother) so he's picking up the pieces at the moment.  I don't want to put too much pressure on him right now, so it's probably going to be a bit of time before I have some to offer.  But they are in the works and I'll find another source for the first batch if necessary.

Thanks,
RandyT

[squirrellydw]

Any plans on making one that lights up or glow??

Maybe even something like this, where just the base lights up....
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate/#

[MYX]

Things that light up are cool!!! You could do it with the resin idea.


Hey Randy, seeing that it is just a little larger than a token, is this too small? Big hands and all.

[RandyT]

Things that light up are cool!!! You could do it with the resin idea.

Hey Randy, seeing that it is just a little larger than a token, is this too small? Big hands and all.

Hmmm...If you count the rings, it's a little larger in diameter than an actual Tempest knob.  The rings actually extend beyond the rim, which extends beyond the token.  Its size may be a bit deceiving due to the design.

You might have to try it to find out.  The Tempest knob was good for the masses in the arcades, so this one should be pretty comparable.

RandyT

[mahuti]

From a guy that can palm a b-ball... the tempest spinner is just fine.

[Cornchip]

  Wow...I like the look of the new spinner over the  black phenolic knob. I sure feel stupid for ordering one of the first spinners that you made. Doesn't pay to  be first.   

[RandyT]

  Wow...I like the look of the new spinner over the  black phenolic knob. I sure feel stupid for ordering one of the first spinners that you made. Doesn't pay to  be first.   

Don't feel stupid.  It's not going to be the stock knob. That one will have a bit of a price tag to it and be an additional item.

As for being first...if you like the spinner, be happy.  The next batch isn't going to last long either from the looks of it.

RandyT

[whammoed]

Randy,

Very original BTW.  I was wondering how yours would be different.
What is the diameter?  The one I use now is 1.75" and I like it, but I may just be used to it?
Also, if you know, what was the diameter of a tempest knob?

[RandyT]

Randy,

Very original BTW.  I was wondering how yours would be different.
What is the diameter?  The one I use now is 1.75" and I like it, but I may just be used to it?
Also, if you know, what was the diameter of a tempest knob?

The stock black phenolic knob is right around 1.25" , as is, if memory serves me, the original Tempest knob.    The skirt is what makes the Tempest knob look larger, and that is 1 7/8".

The "TokenTop" is about 1.35" at the widest part of the grip.

RandyT

[Cornchip]

  Nah...I'm not to upset. It does give me ideas on upgrading what I'll be getting. I have a few machinist tricks up my sleve. I'll make it my mission to come up with something a little different.   

[RandyT]

Spinners are sold out....
When is the next run going to be available?

Now.


RandyT

[southpaw13]

Got it....as Napolean Dynamite would say....Yesssssssss

[Kremmit]

I keep telling you, I'm always ahead on these things.   

It's true...  This is the guy that foresaw the Afterburner Cockpit shortage of 2012.   

I know where there's another one, if you wanna drive up here again.

[KevSteele]

I'm gonna have to buy some of those knobs - they'd make cool paperweights as well as spinner tops. Especially with these tokens:



 

Kevin

[RetroJames]

I will be very interested to see WHICH side of that token ends up on top...

and I want those spinner tops as well!

[Santoro]

Did you clear coat those tokens?

[KevSteele]

Did you clear coat those tokens?

No, I think it's just an artifact of trying to "clean up" the photo in Photoshop. As you know, it's very hard to get a good shot of shiny objects!

Kevin

[JODY]

RandyT...

Posted this previously but didn't see a reply...when I order one of these I'd like to also get an extra OptiWiz with the encoder optics and a spare encoder wheel to mount to the end of a steering wheel shaft I bought on Ebay that came missing some parts.  I got some payment back from the seller and was planning on buying the parts from Oscar.  Think the higher resolution would benefit...   Do you plan to sell encoder wheels separate and the OptiWiz with the encoder optics?

Looks like I missed the second run.  For awhile yesterday the site didn't have the spinner on it and when it showed up it was sold out again...

[Witchboard]

RandyT...

Do you plan to sell encoder wheels separate and the OptiWiz with the encoder optics?

Here's a question.  Will the encoder wheels by themselves be available for purchase?  I didn't read all the technical stuff so I'm not sure if the high resolution benefit is reliant on both the encoder wheel and the optic board, or just the wheel.  If it's just the wheel, it would be nice to upgrade my existing spinner.

All components of the TurboTwist

[brandon]

I believe that RandyT was talking about using those encoders with a different optic board though.. I can't imagine how a spinning shaft, whether it be a spinner or a steering wheel is going to be any different as far as the OptiWiz is concerned...  but maybe so

[Havok]

You'll just have to buy the whole spinner and "retrofit" the wheel...

[WaRpEd]

Randy
I tried to order today but your site shows as out of stock on the spinner.
Did I miss put?

[RandyT]

Randy
I tried to order today but your site shows as out of stock on the spinner.
Did I miss put?

I had a feeling they would go quickly and they did.  I may have the parts for a couple more.  I'll have to check.

I have put some pressure on the machinist for the metal parts, but I think we are still at least a week out on another larger sized run.

RandyT

[JODY]

You'll just have to buy the whole spinner and "retrofit" the wheel...

Too much expense and waste for that...I'd do another solution...

[Timoe]

What do I need to plug my Happ trackball with harness (no USB/PS2) directly into a Turbo Twist?

Will I need that $13 cable that GGG sells or will the 'harness' from the trackball be all I need?

[mccoy178]

Okay, what is the status?  I'm getting ancy.

[Timoe]

Status Update:

well I decided that it would be best to go with the cable.  It makes my life easier and it looks nice and clean.

 

[RandyT]

Okay, what is the status?  I'm getting ancy.

Going to the machinist today to pick up parts.

Won't be long now.  Sorry for the delays...

RandyT

[Xam]

Okay Randy! Got my money now! Any time frame on when we can order?

Xam

[Doolin]

Hey Randy, looking to into getting one of your fine looking spinners. But I got a few questions first.
1. Am I correct in understanding that it allows a trackball to be hooked up?
2. Does it require any drivers? As I am looking to use it on a Linux mame cab.


Thanks!

~Doolin

[Kremmit]

I'm not Randy, but..

1)  Yes, the Opti-Wiz optical interface that comes with the spinner has inputs for three total axes; one for the spinner and two for a trackball (or other optical devices).  You would probably want to order the unit configured to have the spinner on the Z-axis, so that the trackball occupies the X & Y axes, which will allow it to double for a mouse.

2)  I don't know jack about Linux, but I know that the OptiWiz requires no drivers under Windows XP- it detects as a standard HID mouse device.  If you can use standard HID mice, you ought to be able to use an Opti-Wiz.  I don't know if Linux complicates using the Z-axis, but again, if you can currently use the scroll wheel on a standard HID mouse, then the Z-axis on the Opti-Wiz ought to work.

Hope that helps.

[whammoed]

Hey Randy, looking to into getting one of your fine looking spinners. But I got a few questions first.
1. Am I correct in understanding that it allows a trackball to be hooked up?
2. Does it require any drivers? As I am looking to use it on a Linux mame cab.


Thanks!

~Doolin

I had no problems with the optiwiz in Linux.  Plugged it in and it worked.

[Doolin]

Hey Randy, looking to into getting one of your fine looking spinners. But I got a few questions first.
1. Am I correct in understanding that it allows a trackball to be hooked up?
2. Does it require any drivers? As I am looking to use it on a Linux mame cab.


Thanks!

~Doolin

I had no problems with the optiwiz in Linux.  Plugged it in and it worked.

Cool, but just a few more
what distro are you using?
did you get ps/2 or usb?
did you also use a trackball with it?

thanks alot!

[whammoed]

Hey Randy, looking to into getting one of your fine looking spinners. But I got a few questions first.
1. Am I correct in understanding that it allows a trackball to be hooked up?
2. Does it require any drivers? As I am looking to use it on a Linux mame cab.


Thanks!

~Doolin

I had no problems with the optiwiz in Linux.  Plugged it in and it worked.

Cool, but just a few more
what distro are you using?
did you get ps/2 or usb?
did you also use a trackball with it?

thanks alot!

Gentoo
USB
Worked with happ trackball but not with suzo/ultimarc.  Also tried out the Z axis with a spinner. (I don't have the turbotwist spinner, just the optiwiz)

[Doolin]

Hey Randy, looking to into getting one of your fine looking spinners. But I got a few questions first.
1. Am I correct in understanding that it allows a trackball to be hooked up?
2. Does it require any drivers? As I am looking to use it on a Linux mame cab.


Thanks!

~Doolin

I had no problems with the optiwiz in Linux.  Plugged it in and it worked.

Cool, but just a few more
what distro are you using?
did you get ps/2 or usb?
did you also use a trackball with it?

thanks alot!

Gentoo
USB
Worked with happ trackball but not with suzo/ultimarc.  Also tried out the Z axis with a spinner. (I don't have the turbotwist spinner, just the optiwiz)

Killer mate, just what I needed. Thanks

[JODY]

Received my spinner and just hooked it up for a few minutes to try Arkanoid.  It is the most playable of all the non-geared spinners I've tried for Arkanoid.  There are about 50% more teeth on the optic wheel than a Tempest spinner.  Will work great in a cabinet I'm starting with a small control panel.

Thanks

[mccoy178]

I received my two today.  Thanks Randy.  I didn't realize they were so small!  I've never had a spinner before, so this is pretty cool in my book.

[Xam]

Got my spinner recently too! Though my cabinet bulid is months away...I could not resist hooking it up! My score on puzzloop jumped from roughly 9,000 to about 50,000!

  Thanks Randy! Eyeballing one of them there key wiz's now!

Xam

[mccoy178]

Wow!  These are a blast!  I didn't even realize what I was missing!  Thanks Randy!

[Doolin]

Is it me or did GGG remove that harness they had for their spinner that connects to happ trackballs?

[Tiger-Heli]

Is it me or did GGG remove that harness they had for their spinner that connects to happ trackballs?

I think it's you.   

Do you mean this one: http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_85&products_id=261 (Took me a while to find it as well). 

BTW - RandyT - Cute that I can also see a larger image of the "No Picture Available" text. 

[Havok]

Funny thing is, the larger image is smaller!

[Doolin]

Guess it was me 

[Havok]

Any update on those knobs? I think I would like the gunmetal blue - especially with JoyMonkey's token...

[RandyT]

Any update on those knobs? I think I would like the gunmetal blue - especially with JoyMonkey's token...

Having trouble with my machinist.  Right now I kind of pushed the priority over to the Groovy 49-way parts, which are coming along.

I'm praying he will get to the point where he can devote more of his time to my stuff, but it's probably in vain. We'll see, I guess.

In the meantime, is anybody in the group a machinist, or know one who has a CNC lathe and will work reasonably?

Thanks,
RandytT

[pointdablame]

Having trouble with my machinist.  Right now I kind of pushed the priority over to the Groovy 49-way parts, which are coming along.

I'm praying he will get to the point where he can devote more of his time to my stuff, but it's probably in vain. We'll see, I guess.

In the meantime, is anybody in the group a machinist, or know one who has a CNC lathe and will work reasonably?

Thanks,
RandytT

It's a shame you are having so much trouble with your machinist.  If I may ask, are you just a small fish in his customer "pond" or is he really just this unreliable?  Seems to me you're doing the right thing by considering finding someone else. 

I hope it all works out in the end though.

[Doolin]

Wow... Randy...

Just got my happ trackball today after a backorder. It works great this the TurboTwist... I think i pee'd my pants alittle

[Lewis Black]

Randy, any chance we will see the knobs soon?

[whynotpizza]

You guys might want to check Apache Controls for Knobs, they really do rock! Solid core aluminum and each of the four colors they have are great. I personally bought all 4, but like the RED and BLUE the best.

And Apache Controls seems to have recently added a much nicer shipping option to their standard offering via US Postal Service, so it definitely saves on shipping.

Personally, I like the DOT knob shape the best, even for non DOT games like Tempest. It just feels great in your hand during game play, much better than the others out there today.

Check em out... www.apachecontrols.com

Of course, you can always use those standard plastic or home-grown knobs if you'd like. (not!)

   David

[Searcher7]

This has gotten overwhelming.

I was about to get a Tornado spinner, before I stumbled across this thread, and was wondering if anyone had put together a chart  showing the advantages(pros/cons) of the Tornado, D.O.T., and Cheep Spinner(along with any other that I might have missed).

Thanks a lot.

Darren

[Lewis Black]

http://www.retroblast.com/reviews.html  might help some.