Author Topic: TRON Stick Handles (Read 17417 times)

Fozzy The Bear · « **on:** February 17, 2006, 03:31:55 am »

Can anybody help with a source for TRON Joystick handles.... Just looking for the plastic clam shell handle parts, not the entire stick.

I know there were some similar translucent blue ones posted about a week ago, but they they're not visually 100% TRON Shape....

I'm not worried if they're not 100% TRON internally as I can work on that, and I'm also not worried if they're black, red, blue or yellow with purple spots or even non translucent either. Because I'm planning to cast new ones from them in a tough Polyvinyl Resin. Just as long as they are externally 100% TRON shaped handles.

I know that Happs do an almost TRON stick as a complete unit, but they're very expensive for what they are and I'd rather just get hold of the clam shell handle parts and do some hacking myself.

All help and advice appreciated.

Or alternatively, if anybody has a set of original TRON clam shell handles that they're prepared to lend me for a couple of weeks, I can pull a silicone rubber mold off them and reproduce numerous sets from that for anybody who wants them.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Flinkly · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2006, 04:11:05 am »

uh, just buy the shell from happs, or ponyboy. you don't have to buy the whole joystick.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2006, 04:25:17 am »

I've had a look and now been back to Happs and had a look again.... But I can't see the plastic shells for the TRON Sticks listed anywhere as a separate item. They do have the left and right yoke grips listed, but I can't see the TRON ones.... Do you have a link for those please??

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2006, 06:57:16 am »

I don't have any, but I would certainly buy pretty blue repros.

Cheers.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2006, 07:04:08 am »

That's the general idea.... I want a pair of them, but once I've made the molds to create them I might as well offer them to the group as well.

I'll also be keeping the cost down to time and materials only. So they should work out to be very affordable.

The advantage with Polyvinyl Resin is not only that they're very tough when finished but that it's actually a water clear resin that can have translucent pigments added to it. So Original Blue is very possible, as is any other colour.... Never know somebody might want red ones to match their cab or purple ones or etc etc etc...

So if anybody can help out with these.... either a loan of an original set to copy, or have some they would like to sell, or can point me to a source for them at a sensible price then please yell up.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2006, 07:05:56 am »

Well, if I come across a set, you'll be the first to know.

Cheers.

grueinthebox · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:30:57 am »

Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on February 17, 2006, 04:25:17 am

I've had a look and now been back to Happs and had a look again.... But I can't see the plastic shells for the TRON Sticks listed anywhere as a separate item.

Go to the joysticks and look at the exploded view for the part numbers... You want 96-2527-00 and 96-2526-00 for the two plastic clamshell pieces. If you want the trigger as well, that would be 96-2528-00.

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm

Chances are, PonyBoy can get them for you - just PM him the part numbers.

Let me know when you get up and running with the molds - I need a replacement translucent red handle for my Satan's Hollow restore.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2006, 09:06:39 am »

Quote from: grueinthebox on February 17, 2006, 08:30:57 am

Let me know when you get up and running with the molds - I need a replacement translucent red handle for my Satan's Hollow restore.

Thanks! I'll be sure to post to the forum so that everybody knows when they're available.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Teebor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2006, 09:24:16 am »

Just out of interest would you consider sending any to the UK when you make them up?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2006, 10:24:35 am »

1-Up did this previously - http://1uparcade.robandmitsue.com/projects-tronsticks.html

He got his from Tom at SpecialtyPlastics - http://members.aol.com/specialtyplastic/ http://members.aol.com/specialtyplastic/tronhandles.jpg

I don't think Tom is selling them any longer, but some of the info in those links might help you out.

muzland · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2006, 02:05:20 pm »

Hi Fozzy,

Sounds like a groovy project. Perhaps you will share your molding techniques with us so we can see how it is done.

I am after some Star Wars yoke handles myself as this is the only bit I can't do myself. Knowing how to mold these would open up new possibilites.

Good Luck!

Muzland

johnvv · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2006, 07:28:32 pm »

Fozzy:

I have a couple original Tron joystick handles and a set of the repros that were done last year by Specialty Plastics. I don't now anything about molding, but I expect the trick will be to match the original color and luminescence under black light. If you are not looking to do true Tron repros, then only the form is an issue.

I have not seen the current Happ part, mentioned about, but note that both the original and repros stick do have a slight texture over the entire stick. I'm thinking the Happ sticks might be smooth outside the handle/grip area.

The original trigger pieces are red and are common to all the Midway game sticks.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:20:51 pm »

Quote from: Teebor on February 17, 2006, 09:24:16 am

Just out of interest would you consider sending any to the UK when you make them up?

Yes! I'm in the UK so no problem..... I'd be happy to post them worldwide in any case.

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 17, 2006, 10:24:35 am

I don't think Tom is selling them any longer, but some of the info in those links might help you out.

Thanks I'll take a look!

Quote from: muzland on February 17, 2006, 02:05:20 pm

Sounds like a groovy project. Perhaps you will share your molding techniques with us so we can see how it is done.

I am after some Star Wars yoke handles myself as this is the only bit I can't do myself. Knowing how to mold these would open up new possibilites.

I'll write a tutorial up for doing it as I go along with it, and take some photographs if it helps people... Maybe Saint will host the tutorial when I get it done.

Quote from: johnvv on February 17, 2006, 07:28:32 pm

Fozzy:

I have a couple original Tron joystick handles and a set of the repros that were done last year by Specialty Plastics. I don't now anything about molding, but I expect the trick will be to match the original color and luminescence under black light. If you are not looking to do true Tron repros, then only the form is an issue.

I have not seen the current Happ part, mentioned about, but note that both the original and repros stick do have a slight texture over the entire stick. I'm thinking the Happ sticks might be smooth outside the handle/grip area.

The original trigger pieces are red and are common to all the Midway game sticks.

Thanks for the information....Taking a silicone rubber mold will actually capture the original surface detail very well indeed. I'm glad you mentioned it, because if I bought the Happs ones and they didn't have that detail the finished items would be wrong.

The colour should be no problem as long as I have an original reference.

If you feel like you wouldn't mind lending me a set for a couple of weeks then I could pull the moulds quite quickly and without any damage to the original items. I'd be very happy to pay the postage costs both ways.

............................................

It does seem like there is a fair amount of interest in these.... If I can keep the cost low then it might be worth doing a propper run of them.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

PoDunkMoFo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:22:20 pm »

Quote from: muzland on February 17, 2006, 02:05:20 pm

I am after some Star Wars yoke handles myself.....

Not sure if this matters to you or not but Star Wars yoke handles are cast aluminum.

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2006, 08:26:24 pm »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 17, 2006, 10:24:35 am

He got his from Tom at SpecialtyPlastics - http://members.aol.com/specialtyplastic/ http://members.aol.com/specialtyplastic/tronhandles.jpg

I don't think Tom is selling them any longer, but some of the info in those links might help you out.

Correct ... I e-mailed Tom (again) just last week. No joy (pun intended).

muzland · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2006, 05:07:50 am »

Thanks PoDunkMoFo,

Quote

Not sure if this matters to you or not but Star Wars yoke handles are cast aluminum.

I was not aware they were aluminium. Plastic would be ok for the one I plan on making as I have no way of machining aluminium. If Fozzy's mold idea is good I will probably have a bash at this and see what the results turn out like. It would be repro but so will the rest as I will be building from scratch. Genuine Yokes are like rocking horse ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and when they do come up they go for a small fortune. I'm on a budget with this so it's out of my league. After all it is only for a few games (important ones though

). Like Fozzy if I get the mold working I would gladly do a run to supply handles to people on here. If the whole Yoke build goes good I may even start supplying these as well.

The other thing I am planning on making is my spinner. I have managed to aquire a job lot of bust hard drives so I am going to give this a go as soon as the rest of my cab is up and running. It will be a mouse hack.

Trackball I have is an old pc serial device (with ps2 converter) but it has a 2 1/4" ball so is not too bad size wise. Does not roll as freely as an arcade one so I will have to go to work with the WD40. Only paid

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2006, 06:35:41 am »

Quote from: muzland on February 18, 2006, 05:07:50 am

As you can see I am trying to do things cheaply but also I will get a lot of personal satisfaction out of making something myself. I am not good at these things so it gives me a challenge to see if I can pull it off to a good standard.

That's the whole point of this community Muzland.... You go for it! I'll post a few pointers where to look later today for mold making information.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2006, 10:44:14 am »

Quote from: muzland on February 18, 2006, 05:07:50 am

If the whole Yoke build goes good I may even start supplying these as well.

That would be popular if you can pull it off.

FWIW, Gamecab was working on this, but I don't know what the current status is: http://www.gamecab.com/yoke.htm

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2006, 08:11:20 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 18, 2006, 10:44:14 am

FWIW, Gamecab was working on this, but I don't know what the current status is: http://www.gamecab.com/yoke.htm

I don't think anybody knows what his current status is..... Almost everything on his site reads as: Discontinued... either that or: Out Of Stock....

It looks very like he's out of business on this stuff.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

muzland · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2006, 11:12:49 am »

Nice one Fozzy,

Look forward to the molding info.

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 18, 2006, 10:44:14 am

Quote from: muzland on February 18, 2006, 05:07:50 am
If the whole Yoke build goes good I may even start supplying these as well.
That would be popular if you can pull it off.

FWIW, Gamecab was working on this, but I don't know what the current status is: http://www.gamecab.com/yoke.htm

Wow! This looks great and is a proper engineered piece of work. Mine will be made from 1/2" MDF

as I have plenty of this knocking around after the control panel build. I took a look inside my PC steering wheel the other day and the guts of this could be modified to work I reckon. The other options I have is the dual strike hack. One of the things I don't know about the yoke is what the authetic feel is like. It is ages since I played one of these in an arcade.

PS. Powered up my cab with all of the guts inside for the first time today. It all seems to work

. I now need to wire my network patch panels up to the sidewinder hacks and I could then actually play some games

.Still some work needed to tart it all up though. The speakers don't look quite right perched on top of the cab

Regards
Muzland

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2006, 07:19:10 pm »

I believe the new2 guy had trouble as the molds are expensive and they only last for so many casts before having to be remade.

I would like a few sets if the price is reasonable.

Muzland, better use a stronger wood for your controller. MDF is good for things like cabinets.. but under stresses it falls appart very easily. In a starwars controller, it surely wouldnt last long.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2006, 09:56:10 pm »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 19, 2006, 07:19:10 pm

I believe the new2 guy had trouble as the molds are expensive and they only last for so many casts before having to be remade.

I would like a few sets if the price is reasonable.

Actually, making the molds and the cost of them is not too bad for me. I live in an area where there's a lot of Surfing... I mean real surfing not internet surfing... So fibreglass and resins and mold rubbers are reasonable round here because there's a lot of surf board and boat manufacture here.

Yes Silicone rubber molds do deteriorate, but you can usually pull at least 50 casts out of them if you treat them carefully. In any case, I'd make a master to pull additional molds from, becuase the material that I'd be casting these in has quite a long setting time, and it'd make sense to be casting more than one at once.

Costs, as I said will be restricted solely to time and materials, I'm not interested in profiting from it. So you can be sure that you'll get them at a sensible figure.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Brax · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2006, 12:24:27 pm »

You have a pm.

MinerAl · « **Reply #23 on:** February 21, 2006, 03:12:18 pm »

In the past this has been discussed and the problem, even with perfectly cast repros, is that you still need to hack them to get them attached to a modern joystick, or you need the original Tron stick mechanism to attach the repro to.

My dream (I have a dream today) would be to have Tron stick handles cast with the outside a perfect repro, but the inside of the stick (internal supports/structure etc.) would be made to solidly attach to a 1cm OD steel or aluminum pipe which would fit down into modern joystick mechanisms, like a super or a competition or a 49-way.

The other tricks to a useful modern Tron stick are the false-4way action and the rotation. There are a number of suggested solutions for this.

I'm looking very forward to the developments in this thread!

Count me in as soon as you're taking orders

Al

Flinkly · « **Reply #24 on:** February 21, 2006, 05:46:23 pm »

i can attest to the happ sticks as having the same detail on the outside as the original tron joysticks. at least all the ones i've seen. it doesn't make sense for them to make two different flavors of the same joystick, although as we all know, different colors is easy.

as for a repro joystick, i think it would be easier and more cost effective to make a stick that mated the repro handle to a kind of joystick, rather than match the handle to a pipe to a joystick. check out the page about 1ups try at mating handles to the 49-way and others. although he didn't sell many, they worked.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2006, 03:06:18 am »

Well, the key is not that they worked.. but how WELL they worked. Most joystick bases are made of lightweight plastic.. and is not meant to handle the stresses of a heavy metal shaft like those seen on the tron sticks. The added leverage from the extra height also plays a problem.

The plastic will bow and flex, and may misregister a direction (or eventually break the swiitches) ... and the spacers will wear very quickly from the added weight and abuse.

Theres good reason why the original arcade sticks were made of heavy metal bases with hard rubber bumpers to absorb the forces.

Making orignal mounting method is the better way. If someone wants to use them with original joys... they will be able to. If others want to hack a stick.. they can shave a different shaft down to fit...or make their own shaft.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2006, 08:27:00 am »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 22, 2006, 03:06:18 am

Making orignal mounting method is the better way. If someone wants to use them with original joys... they will be able to. If others want to hack a stick.. they can shave a different shaft down to fit...or make their own shaft.

I think the answer here is to cast them in two different flavours.....
1) Exactly as the originals
2) With a completely solid section at the bottom end, that you can drill yourself to fit whatever stick shaft you're going to use.

It's not impossible to do this, and only requires a slight modification in the mold. So I'll produce two different masters and two different molds and then people will have the choice of which one they want.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

MinerAl · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2006, 11:44:53 am »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on February 22, 2006, 03:06:18 am

Most joystick bases are made of lightweight plastic.. and is not meant to handle the stresses of a heavy metal shaft like those seen on the tron sticks. The added leverage from the extra height also plays a problem.

The plastic will bow and flex, and may misregister a direction (or eventually break the swiitches) ... and the spacers will wear very quickly from the added weight and abuse.

Theres good reason why the original arcade sticks were made of heavy metal bases with hard rubber bumpers to absorb the forces.

Making orignal mounting method is the better way. If someone wants to use them with original joys... they will be able to. If others want to hack a stick.. they can shave a different shaft down to fit...or make their own shaft.

I agree to a certain extent. If I were interested in a dedicated Tron machine that I was going to put on a route and have drunken-spastic-teenage-monkeys yanking on it regularly, then there is no question that the original Tron mechanism would be required.

However, I like playing Tron but not enough for a dedicated machine, so I would like a stick on my multi-game control panel that will make that and other trigger stick games easier. I do not intend to allow drunken-spastic-teenage-monkeys to play my machine, so I'm not concerned that I will exert so much more force with a Tron length stick than I do with my 4 inch bat-tops (there's the whole issue of the strength of the hollow plastic handle and the hollow thin walled shaft there too...) that I will shatter my Super's mechanism.

The real issue for me on my home machine is under-panel real estate. The Tron mechanisms are HUGE in all three dimensions. It's quite a commitment to have one in your panel. A Super with a Tron top takes as much room as a super with a bat top under the panel.

Quote from: Fozzy The Bear on February 22, 2006, 08:27:00 am

2) With a completely solid section at the bottom end, that you can drill yourself to fit whatever stick shaft you're going to use.

Excellent. That is fantastic news. Perhaps instead of a solid block, you could simply do some solid (meet in the middle) struts. The areas inside what I circled on 1up's picture below are what I'm calling struts. They are now crescent shaped (pic 2) to fit the original Tron shaft, but could be made to meet (pic 3) instead. Then we could adjust our shafts accordingly.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2006, 02:44:52 pm »

Quote from: MinerAl on February 22, 2006, 11:44:53 am

Perhaps instead of a solid block, you could simply do some solid (meet in the middle) struts. The areas inside what I circled on 1up's picture below are what I'm calling struts.

To be honest I think they're too thin walled at that point anyway.... It may be possible to beef those struts up a bit as well... I'll have a look at it when I have the sticks to copy, and see what works best.

Even on a near 100% repro stick I think they should be a bit heavier there. That's not the strongest part of the design. I did once see one broken quite badly at the point where it contacts the shaft.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

MinerAl · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:11:54 pm »

Man I hope this works out... I'm getting all excited about custom tron handles

Are you planning to mold the trigger assembly as well? Seems like there could be some improvement on the way the trigger actuates the switch, but there's no point in re-inventing the wheel I guess.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. I have some ideas...

Al

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:27:40 pm »

While I certainly appreciate the desires of those who want to reengineer and come up with a decent way to mount a big Tron handle on a smaller stick, my preference (indeed, all I am interested in) is for a true repro (and I would want at least 2, possibly more).

I'm not trying to disrespect MinerAl's dream in anyway (although I do believe that the big handle requires a bigger base, or at least a metal base), just wanting my voice to be heard amongst the excitement.

Thanks to Fozzy for even considering it ... anything I can do, just ask.

Cheers.

EDIT: And if you did a set of translucent red, I'd take 2 sets as well.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:12:28 am »

Miner Al,

No matter how 'light' you play, the additional weight and leverage will amplify the forces. And since the sticks are not designed to handle that.. it "WILL" wear the stick quickly - and or break it immediatly. Replace your super every month?

I have a Spy Hunter standup, and I tell you what... the Wheel assembly is built like
a tank. Its got Huge metal arms with monster rubber bumpers. You can slam the thing as hard as you can, and not come anywhere near to bending the internals.

The thing is, its not just designed like that for the abuse... The game REQUIRES you to 'slam' the wheel HARD AND FAST in order to bump the indestructable cars off the road. If you try to bump them slow.. the bump will not be enough, and they may even manage to push you instead.

Remember also that since the stick will weight more... you need a heavier spring to keep it centered... otherwise it will be sloppy and not always center. And then add a heavier spring... coupled with the extra weight... and now it takes more strength to Move the stick in any direction. So, you use more force.. and that force coupled with your extra leverage.. and the weight.. = damage force.

This dosnt even consider the frenzied quick jerk reaction you will encounter in the heat of battle.

I sympathize with your delemma, however, I also know the mechanics behind this as well. Ive also built my own version of the trigger sticks mind you... which is another reason I know why.

Ohh another Major problem , is that the "stick travel" is too wide when a long handel is used on a Happs competiton base. So, you will have to move what will seem like 3 miles of distance to activate any switch. Your reaction times will be horrific.. and your wrist will endure great punshment. The base simply is not designed for the extra height.. and thus the pivot point is all wrong, resulting in poor control.

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:45:04 am »

There are you short throw sticks out there.... that would solve the throw problem... There are also some pretty damned strong sticks on the market other than Happs ones....

What you guys use these on at the end of the day is entirely up to you. Which is why I'm going to do the two flavourd versions... you can fit them to whatever you want then.

It does seem that there is enough interest to make this worth doing. So as soon as I can get hold of a set to copy I'll get started on it.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

SirPeale · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:36:22 am »

I have a Xenophobe cab that I need the triggers for. They're the same as the Tron triggers (but not blue). Anyone know of a source?

MinerAl · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:06:36 am »

Xiaou2,

We'll see

Perhaps I am underestimating the weight of a hollow plastic handle. And without the enormous metal shaft inside, that's all we're talking about here... a hollow plastic handle.

Thanks for suggesting that I do not understand the mechanics of the situation. I good-naturedly disagree. Although the handle is quite tall, one does not play Tron with their hand on top of the stick like they would with a ball top. In order to use the trigger, the bottom of your hand needs to be in only a little higher position than it needs to be using a bat stick. I don't know how you play, but I tend to move the stick with the base of my hand (my pinkie and ring fingers and the muscles in my palm on that side of the hand). I do understand that a longer lever makes it easier to exert more force, but I don't think the difference is as great as you make it out to be, since the hand position is only a bit higher.

I too have hacked trigger sticks. So I'm not operating entirely from theory.

That said, I was using the Super as an example because I was familiar with the hack. If I were doing it again, I would use a shorter throw stick like a t-stick or a suzo500, both of which are also of sturdier construction than the admittedly cheesy Super.

I agree it will not be as bullet proof as a real tron stick. I agree that it would be possible to grab the top of the very tall Tron stick and yank away until you powdered a super base or bent the hollow shaft. I just don't think that even in the heat of battle I will accidentally accomplish this. Maybe I don't play my machine seriously enough.

I respect your opinion and see your points. I'm just too dumb and stubborn not to try it anyway if given the chance

Peale,

From what I understand the Xenophobe handle (and trigger and so on) is the same as the Happ offering, and that the individual parts of the Happ stick are available form their site. Go to the exploded view and write down the parts numbers of the bits you need, and then go fill them in to the order form.

Al

RobotronNut · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:11:23 pm »

my preference would be for an exact reproduction of the happ 8-way trigger stick handle, in translucent blue or red. this could be used as a cosmetic upgrade for a brand new happs 8-way trigger stick - the ultimate (though admittedly most expensive) solution.

SirPeale · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:20:18 pm »

Quote from: MinerAl on February 23, 2006, 10:06:36 am

From what I understand the Xenophobe handle (and trigger and so on) is the same as the Happ offering, and that the individual parts of the Happ stick are available form their site. Go to the exploded view and write down the parts numbers of the bits you need, and then go fill them in to the order form.

Kick-Ass. Now to find it on their site.

Kremmit · « **Reply #37 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:34:30 am »

Quote from: Peale on February 23, 2006, 09:20:18 pm

Quote from: MinerAl on February 23, 2006, 10:06:36 am
From what I understand the Xenophobe handle (and trigger and so on) is the same as the Happ offering, and that the individual parts of the Happ stick are available form their site. Go to the exploded view and write down the parts numbers of the bits you need, and then go fill them in to the order form.

Kick-Ass. Now to find it on their site.

Or just use the part numbers found here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=34207.msg299426#msg299426

Fozzy The Bear · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2006, 04:44:10 am »

Quote from: Peale on February 23, 2006, 07:36:22 am

I have a Xenophobe cab that I need the triggers for. They're the same as the Tron triggers (but not blue). Anyone know of a source?

Yes... I'll be casting the triggers as well... The TRON triggers were generally Red not Blue...

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2006, 07:32:08 am »

Translucent Red triggers Please : )


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