LCD Monitors?

[eccs19]

I'm sure everyone is aware that the price of LCD computer monitors are as cheap as ever.  Has anyone used one of these in a  mame, and if not, why not?  I would think that with them being so light, it would be a nice way to go, and it shouldn't be that difficult to make it easily removable to rotate it.  I don't think I've read a single post about anyone doing it, so am I just missing something, or is there a logical reason for not using one?

[ChadTower]

Lots of people have done it.  It can be done.

[quarterback]

Chad's right, a lot of people have done it.  Why don't more people do it?  Because the picture on an LCD just ain't the same as a CRT.

I'll take my $90  21" dell CRT over a similarly sized LCD any day (for my cab, that is)

[ChadTower]

I eventually would like an LCD based bartop, though, just for the smaller profile.

[eccs19]

Thanks for the responses guys.  Great input.  Wasn't sure, as any projects I have seen posted used CRT's.  Now I know why.

[Hippo]

LCD/TFT Monitors are great in their native resolution. Once you change from that they go all wishey washey and headache inducing.

[Lilwolf]

btw, if you do get one... the best output is to run native resolution, don't let mame change it, and then use hwstretch or D3D. 

otherwise you have mame stretching / the video card stretching, then maybe even the monitor itself stretching... IE crap. 

Better to just let it stetch once in mame.

[MameJunkie]

LCD picture quality isn't as good as a CRT.
I would use LCD in any cab that space is a premium like a bartop.
Actually, I am using a old notebook for my bartop.
Was able to disassemble the LCD from the rest of the notebook easily.

[97thruhiker]

I used an LCD monitor in my cabinet and do not regret doing so.  To each his own when it comes to what type of monitor to use.  I tend to play more then mame on my cabinet.  Its nice playing Donkey Kong with the monitor rotated one minute, Half-Life 2 the next.  An LCD is so easy to mount, lightweight, rotatable, and visually in my opinion just as good as a CRT.  Yes, you do not get an authentic arcade screen using an LCD or CRT for that matter, but thats not as important to me as being able to play anything you can play on your PC.  Here's a link to a previous thread about LCD's in cabinets where I have some pictures posted.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42218.msg387281#msg387281

[gibbous]

I would be concerned with the blurring or "ghosting" with LCDs.  I play PC games a lot and had to wait until just four months ago before dumping from my old 19" CRT to get an LCD (Viewsonic VP191).  Before that model, large LCDs for the most part didn't do will with moving graphics like video games.  It's gotten much better now, but of course, there's even more cheapy LCDs good baically just for office applications.  Do your homework and make sure you get a screen with good response time.  Google any model you are considering and see what the reviews say about it's performance.

My VP191 cost me $450 back in August, I reckon LCDs like it are in the $350 neighborhood now a days, if not less.  Get the right model, and they're easily rotatable while they're in cabinet.  It would be a nice little setup if you wanted to play vertical games at full size...(although I'm ASSUMING various emulators will let you rotate the game image, I haven't actually done it myself yet - just downloaded my first emulator two weeks ago).

[Level42]

My opinion about LCD,TFT plasma and all other such displays is clear: OK for laptops and portable devices, for all else it sucks big time.

However, there is a new technology coming up that could change my opinion, but that is only in a year or two.

Was discussed already here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44191.0

Also, in the days of classing gaming, there were no LCD's. So a flat screen is wrong, it also emits light in the dark places and that kills the older games. Anyway, all just MHO.

[Capthowdy]

btw, if you do get one... the best output is to run native resolution, don't let mame change it, and then use hwstretch or D3D. 

otherwise you have mame stretching / the video card stretching, then maybe even the monitor itself stretching... IE crap. 

Better to just let it stetch once in mame.

I see this written EVERYWHERE.  But how is it done?  How do I force MAME to run in the LCDs "native resolution?"   

[JustMichael]

Well according to the MAME docs (windows.txt):

"-resolution wxh[xd] / -r wxh[xd]

   Specifies an exact resolution to run in. In full screen mode, MAME will
   try to use the specific resolution you request. The width (w) and
   height (h) are required; the color depth (d) is optional. If omitted or
   set to 0, MAME will determine the mode auomatically. For example,
   -resolution 640x480 will force 640x480 resolution, but MAME is free to
   choose the color depth. Similarly, -resolution 0x0x32 will force 32-bit
   color depth, but allows MAME to choose the resolution. The string
   "auto" is also supported, and is equivalent to 0x0x0. In window mode,
   this resolution is used as a maximum size for the window. The default
   is auto (-resolution auto). This option requires -ddraw for full screen
   resolution switching."

[Gh0sty]

LCD have one more problem beside the resolution limit, the Hz.
You can only play at 60Hz & 75Hz as far as i know, so a 57Hz or 54Hz
game will be playing way to fast and/or having tearing and sync problems *shudder*

The future is SED, but at first not for Home-Arcade for sure, the price is so high
even for haveing an SED TV.

R
Gh0sty

[Capthowdy]

what games run at that rate?  I'd like to give it a test.

LCD have one more problem beside the resolution limit, the Hz.
You can only play at 60Hz & 75Hz as far as i know, so a 57Hz or 54Hz
game will be playing way to fast and/or having tearing and sync problems *shudder*

The future is SED, but at first not for Home-Arcade for sure, the price is so high
even for haveing an SED TV.

R
Gh0sty

[Dizzle]

I've got an LCD in my cabinet and have had absolutely no problems -- I never regretted doing so.  I haven't had any issues with tearing or games playing to fast on anything I've played.

As far as quality goes, the LCD monitor I just got has an incredible picture.  Particularly nice when I want to play stuff other than MAME on my cab.  The one I was using before had a decent picture, but the response time could have been faster.  If you go LCD, try and get the fastest response time that fits your budget.

I love the fact that it's so easy to rotate.  And it was the only way I was able to get a monitor in my compact upright cab.

[deadkenndys1105]

I use a LCD monitor and I like it because it is already set up to rotate.  I only problem I have with it is that is doesnt sapport (VGA?) mode for 1942 and a few other simaler games.  I like it also for its weight because I dont need a lot of sapports holding it in place because I move my cabinet around and I dont have wheels one it.  With the small CRT monitor I had when I was testing with 1942 worked but so I dont know why it would work with the LCD.

[Havok]

I also use an LCD in my cab - and for my workstation at home, and at work. CRT's are power hogs, generate too much heat, are too heavy, take up too much space, and I'm not a big fan of all that radiation blowing in my face. No thanks!

The image quality is beautiful on my display. I run MAME and contemporary games like Counterstrike Source, Fear, etc and I wouldn't have it any other way. I also watch DVD's on it as well - it has a very quick response time, vibrant colors, excellent brightness\contrast, and I don't have any complaints.

I think most of these guys that slam LCD's haven't seen or really used a newer display. First gen LCD panels sucked, but that is ancient history. Also, don't expect to buy a $150 LCD and get the same quality as a good CRT. You do have to open the wallet to get something comparable. For the price of a 9200, you can get an excellent 20" LCD - which is big enough for a cab. 27" displays are just too damn big, IMO...

[Gh0sty]

what games run at that rate?  I'd like to give it a test.

LCD have one more problem beside the resolution limit, the Hz.
You can only play at 60Hz & 75Hz as far as i know, so a 57Hz or 54Hz
game will be playing way to fast and/or having tearing and sync problems *shudder*

The future is SED, but at first not for Home-Arcade for sure, the price is so high
even for haveing an SED TV.

R
Gh0sty

One is Seibu Kaihatsu 's Raiden Fighter 2000, it runs at 54Hz
yo can look at MAWS for all the different Hz Games running.

And i'm not against LCD's !
See i use an LCD with fs2004 for cockpit instruments, and a beamer for the world display.

Is the LCD better? No. Quicker, easier, more seductive...  but not like the originals!

R
Gh0sty

[Lilwolf]

btw, LCD's have vastly improved over the last 5 years.  I just replaced 2 21" CRT's with two 19" LCD's (almost exactly the same viewable since CRT's are based on the tube size, but you waste an inch+ around them)

Anyway, they are great and look great.  GREAT for gaming, pretty good for mame.

BUT you have to run EVERYTHING at native resolution.   Same for all games as with mame.  The internal stretching algorithm sucks.

but no blurring, no ghosting, GREAT color debth.  And I was able to really rearrange / redo my desk.

[Havok]

Samsung just announced a new LCD model, CRT's are definitely being replaced:

http://aving.net/newproduct/default.asp?mode=read&c_num=16001

[MameMaster!]

I would eventually like to replace my 19" CRT with a larger LCD in my cab and cocktail machine's.

They're huge and really heavy...and some of the newer LCDs (as mentioned in this thread) look great.

The next thing Happ needs to do is come up with a flat bezel for LCDs!

...also check out the latest arcade games....most are popping up on Plasma and LCDs (Sega seems to be at the forefront of this).

 

[horseboy]

The next think Happ needs to do is come up with a flat bezel for LCDs!

They have. Only for 27", though.

[Capthowdy]

One is Seibu Kaihatsu 's Raiden Fighter 2000, it runs at 54Hz
yo can look at MAWS for all the different Hz Games running.

And i'm not against LCD's !
See i use an LCD with fs2004 for cockpit instruments, and a beamer for the world display.

Is the LCD better? No. Quicker, easier, more seductive...  but not like the originals!

R
Gh0sty

Well...i tested a few of them and they all look perfect.  I haven't seen any problems with any of them.

[Arcades R Fun]

I now use 27" Viewsonic LCD TV's exclusively in the games I build and my personal game in my basement. I have played hundreds of MAME games the past 6 months and never had a problem except for an occassional "out of range" error that is easily fixed in the MAME32 toolbar settings. My customers are stunned by the amazing picture quality! They can't stop raving about it.  It currently goes for about $650 on the net and is a great monitor with good response times. It's very light and easy to install.

With 32" LCD TV's dipping under $950, I'll be using that larger size by Fall!

I have tried PC monitors and they are great but 27" CRTs just are not available.
I have tried regular TV's and they play the arcade games OK but the Windows screen sucks.
I have tried Betson-Imperial 27" arcade multisync monitors and the Well-Gardner as well. The picture was great but again, Windows sucked. Plus you are limited to 800 by 600 rez and many PC games like a higher rez. The cost of these special monitors are not much less than the LCD.

One last point. There's no set-up to play all your favorite arcade games. No special video card to buy, no special wiring, nothing, just plug it in and enjoy!

With prices falling on the LCD tv's and better technology coming out soon, this is the future of arcade games, at least for my business.

Jack

[ahofle]

I have tried PC monitors and they are great but 27" CRTs just are not available.
I have tried regular TV's and they play the arcade games OK but the Windows screen sucks.
I have tried Betson-Imperial 27" arcade multisync monitors and the Well-Gardner as well. The picture was great but again, Windows sucked. Plus you are limited to 800 by 600 rez and many PC games like a higher rez. The cost of these special monitors are not much less than the LCD.

Wow, this is the first time I've ever heard someone recommend an LCD over an arcade monitor for arcade games.  Does anyone have any comparison pages with closeups of each monitor type?  I always figured arcade games would look like crap on a monitor with such a high resolution.  Do LCDs look better than standard CRT computer monitors for arcade games (because I think they stink on computer CRTs)?

[spidermonkey]

The 1st example that comes to mind is Rdagger's awesome cab "ROTOTRON"
http://rototron.info/

[Lilwolf]

btw, quick not on true arcade monitors, or any bgrade vga monitors (EYGO for my instance).  They look GREAT on current PC games, by forcing 4x+ AA and 640x480.  I had my cabinet next to my computer for a long time and it looked better then on my pc.  Very soft and smooth.  No stair stepping at all and looked very natural.

I don't have a good video card on my cab anymore, but when I had my gaming video card there, I was VERY happy with the output.

trouble is thought... most PC games don't map well to any arcade controls.  I was going to build a bf2 control panel (flight throttle, then dedicated mouse, then flight stick, then WASD + extra button key setup).  But it only might work with other PC games well.   You need a full keyboard and a mouse to really play PC games anyway.