mame = real arcade... or not ?

[Nataq]

Ok, im not new at this whole thing but I was just wondering... I bought Saints book and everywhere it says that building a cabinet is the closest thing to playing the real thing. Question is, is there really a difference between running a game in MAME and running a real arcade board. Lets say your playing your MAME cabinet with real arcade sticks, buttons, arcade monitor etc... running a game full speed. Is that exactly the same thing as playing the original game ? Maybe I should add software side because some people will say that the cabinet and stuff would be different but lets keep that appart. About just playing the game, the gameplay and stuff. That is exactly the same ?? Maybe the display is not the same even with an arcade monitor ?

My guess is that there is no difference maybe appart from the display but im just wondering if there is any difference... even just details...

[tristan]

The ROMs used with MAME are the actual ROMs from the arcade games, so they should be exactly the same, minus the original hardware.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Sounds are my biggest issue.
There are many games I've played that are "different" than the dedicateds I have, or have played.

Asteroids is a good example.
The REALLY old versions used sound samples of an actual Asteroids machine to put the sounds into the game.
That made the sound VERY close to the original.
Since that time, they have "improved" the sound emulation, and it now sounds absolutely nothing like a real Asteroids machine.
This improved the accuracy with which the original hardware is emulated because the emulator is actually processing the code for the audio, rather than just playing sounds; but it has made the overall presentation of the game less accurate than before.

[tristan]

I stand corrected. Of course, it's been nearly 20 years since I've played the original games. 

[the3eyedblindman]

See I was debating about this with myself...I was going to build a moonwalker cabinet and just run moonwalker off of an old pc....but... I am now debating if I should try to find the original board...

[Ninja Supremacist]

MAME makes a worthy attempt at being all things to all people.  Most people don't care about the verbose complaints put forth by monitorguru.  Most people can't tell the difference.  It's close enough and if you need it perfect, somebody probably has a specialized version of MAME for it..  Otherwise, you're in it to have fun, not prove your technical prowess or brag about overpriced brand names nobody knows or cares about.

[TurboC--]

Eh?  You are free to play MAME on your PC at this very instant.  Try the games you want most, and see if they meet your standards.  Luckily I like "the classics" which don't take a lot of power to emulate.  Is it a perfect emulation?  Probably not 100% perfect, but they ARE the actual ROMs.  There's no real reason an emulation can't be 100% perfect though.  Some games might be.  Not sure how you would ever know for sure.  Set up some kind of fixed-input test program and videotape the results on each?  Heh.

[Ninja Supremacist]

  Monitor,... Just a jab for your response to my other thread.

It's hard to recapture the past. If curators could be as accurate as the geek world is at preserving history, we'd have much different museums. 

[the3eyedblindman]

I got into Maming but never built a Mame cabinet, and instead started finding and refurbishing (and building from scratch replica cabinets) original arcade games.

However, I know that when I load up Pac/MsPac/PacPlus on mame, the patterns between mame and my real arcadge game boards for all 3 games are NOT the same, so I can't use the same patterns to play one over the other. (Yes, I've compared the roms and they are identical).

That said, if I wouldn't have compared it against the real board, I would never have known the difference.

That sounds like what Im doing, building a scratch moonwalker cab and just using an old computer instead of a pcb, can you post some pictures of some of the cabs youve made? Ive always had an interest in cabinets like this.

[TurboC--]

However, I know that when I load up Pac/MsPac/PacPlus on mame, the patterns between mame and my real arcadge game boards for all 3 games are NOT the same, so I can't use the same patterns to play one over the other. (Yes, I've compared the roms and they are identical).

WHAAA??  Well, have you factored in that there are various different roms, bootlegs and also settings in Tab-screen for difficulty I think? 

[RayB]

WHAAA??

[the3eyedblindman]

What makes an arcade machine real anyways ?...I have a mame cabinet, it plays real arcade games...it looks like an arcade machine, you would never know i built it.... it runs the games on a 27 inch tv covered by a happ bezel and plexi glass...it has a marquee, real arcade controls..... So isnt it an arcade machine? It doesnt have a real arcade monitor, its not a dedicated machine.... it is ran by a computer...so is it not an arcade machine? I dont even know??? 

[TurboC--]

Refer to the post regarding erroneous z-80 initialization and then his comment will make sense. If it doesn't, ... well, there's no explaining it to ya

Yes, I read the part where someone claimed the Z80 wasn't "initialized" properly.  I simply said, here's some other possibilities, and did you check them?  There are several flavors of the real Pac-man and different patterns for each.  Furthermore, as far as Ms.Pac, I've played enough of the real thing to know that there is not 1 set pattern, there is apparently a significant set of possible subpatterns that it pseudo-randomly chooses from.  The specifics of that choosing I don't know, I just know my very opening pattern and what to look for to avoid.

As far as the Z80.  Given that a microprocessor to my knowledge does not contain "initializable information" other than in the registers, I'm thinking it must be the register contents to blame?  Well, I only coded ASM on a motorola 68000, but whatever the problem is with Z80 emulation, you'd think they could fix it for gods sake, with such an old and popular chip...

[rescue161]

I have an original (no mods at all) Pac-Man.  It doesn't even have a speed-up chip in it.  MAME plays exactly the same as my original Pac-Man.

There is a jumper on the Pac-Man board that can be shorted to make the game harder.  Maybe your has a different ROMs or has been modified.

[Nataq]

Ok so maybe in patterns... But that seems pretty much the same to me then. Pacman ghost can START with a different pattern but the game will act the same from there. There wont be any ''random'' about the ghost running around (or is there ??) They should be programed to do the same thing let apart the starting path. At least thats the way I see it.

And about the display again... so having an arcade monitor will actually give you the exact thing ? No difference ? Are all arcade monitors the same (let appart the size ?).

[NoOne=NBA=]

Are all arcade monitors the same (let appart the size ?).

No.

There are different resolutions, depending on the game hardware.

[the3eyedblindman]

Do any "real" arcade cabinets use televisions as monitors?

[pointdablame]

Do any "real" arcade cabinets use televisions as monitors?

PONG used a TV.

[Minwah]

PONG used a TV.

I think a lot of early games used modified TV's.

[JCL]

No, *NOTHING* is ever *EXACTLY* the same.

Here are the problems if you want to have it "exact".

1) Mame has not perfected every (any??) game yet. Many run just like the arcade while many others have numerous problems from very very minor (like a color being off) to very very major (like not booting or crashing in the middle of the game.)

2) Mame is known to not initialize the game/processors correctly (e.g. Dave Widel recently showed that Z-80 processor initialization is entirely wrong).

[DarkKobold]

This is a funny thread, because if we didn't have *any* real boards left, there would be arguements for ages as to how true everything was.  It's like the movie Final Cut. In this movie, they can save dead people's memories on computer chips. The cutter, (the guy who puts the dead persons life into a 45 minute film).
Brother of the Decesed: "I always remembered the boat from our childhood was red, but it was green. I really remember it was red."
Cutter: "Perhaps it was red"
It is interesting what are mind remembers, and what really happened.

[RTSDaddy2]

I may regret saying these things later, after reading several of the posts here, but in regard to home-brewed cabinets being real arcade cabinets or not...

The cabinet I built is a REAL arcade cabinet.

[the3eyedblindman]

You could look at the situation in 2 ways really. A) It is a real arcade machine, because it plays real arcade game roms with real arcade buttons, joysticks, etc. or.. B) Its not a real arcade machine because it doesn't use real arcade hardware....For example, Im going to build this "dedicated" moonwalker machine...It will play the real moonwalker rom, have real moonwalker artwork, have real arcade controls...but it will be run off of a pc... If I tried selling it on ebay as a "Dedicated moonwalker cabinet" and people got it with a Pc inside, I dont think theyd be very happy....