Routed CP components. Need feedback!

[Nataq]

Any of you guys experienced any issue routing joysticks in the CP ? Im planning on using 3/4 MDF for the wood. Is it better routing the "plate" underneath the CP or above ? I guess that if its underneath we can only use small screws that wont go all the way to trough the wood not to get screws above the CP (I want a flat surface on my CP, no screws). But is that setup really solid ? Routing the CP above would be better ?

Need feedback fast! Im doing the CP tomorow with one of my friend! thanx!

[kickngas]

Rout on the top!  Keep in mind the downward pressure you will be exerting on the assembly.  You then run bolt and nut through and tighten for stability.
   Oh, I guess it depends on what joystick you use, but I used the GGG Omni-stick and routed the topside. 

[Nataq]

You did that on 3/4 wood ?

[RaggedEdge]

I routed mine on the top last night.  I like it a lot because I will get the full stick length instead of lossing 5/8" due to mounting it on the bottom.  My CP is 5/8" thick.  Check out my last posts to see pics.  I have the Happ Super Joysticks.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=41086.0

[kickngas]

Yes, through the top...look at Ragged's pics.  You can also see examples at Knievel's site here http://www.freewebs.com/knievel/kustomwork.htm

[Nataq]

Good ill do the same. Ive noticed you removed the microswitches from the supers to put it in too. I just hope my mate will have the routing skills you do

[NoOne=NBA=]

I always rout underneath, and then use T-nuts.
That's how the majority of the orginal arcade CP's were done.

Then came the conversions, and crappy workmanship.
And suddenly everyone mistakenly thinks dustwashers are SUPPOSED to be on the top--when they should really be trapped in the middle.

If you rout the bottom, it doesn't matter what your routing skills are.

I just spent an entire weekend (on and off) building a curved wood CP from scratch, similar to the Williams Robotron CP, but to fit my Crazy Climber exactly.
It ended up as a 3-layer laminate (3/4" poplar w/routing underneath - 1/4" poplar w/a dustwasher track routed out and T-nuts - 1/4" poplar with just the joystick hole.

[Nataq]

I know the dust washer SHOULD be squeezed between but should be as good. Its purpose is to block dust so even on top it should be doing that as good... just my tought. Routing above does bring the shaft of the joystick a little bit longer. Again its about everyones taste. I would like a little bit more lenght shaft in my opinion (for supers that is). And doesnt you need to still route a little on top if you dont want screw/bolt from top of panel ?

[RaggedEdge]

Nataq,

Yes, I had to remove the microswitches on my Super to get it to fit through the square hole.  There is a little raised guide on the bottom of the super to keep the microswitch in the proper place when I put it back on.  Also, for the routing, I actually made 2 different square patterns that I used to route with.  The smaller one was used for the inner hole (that goes all the way through the CP) and the larger one that was used to route down 5/16" for the joystick lip.  From the outside of my router mortising bit to the outside of the router plate (guide) was 2 3/4"  I just added that amount to the dimensions of the square that I needed to cut out for the joystick.  I used a jig saw to cut out the square patterns, then I just clamped them down (after positioning them) on the control panel and then let the pattern keep my movements confined to the square.  I tested it on a scrap piece of MDF first to make sure it would work.  It takes the guess work out of routing once you get a pattern that fits with your joystick.  Sure, I am not a professional wood craftsman and my "workmanship" is only adequate, but I am learning and getting better all the time, and that is what matters to me.

[NoOne=NBA=]

You can't fully top mount without having exposed bolt heads.
You also can't top mount it, and then put graphics over it, without routing deeper for the joystick, and then routing a coverplate for the joysticks, or entire CP, anyway.

If you bottom mount them, you will need to fill over the T-nuts with something, but don't really have to rout them.
You can just counter sink them slightly with a forstner bit, so that they sit just slightly below the level of the CP.
Put temporary bolts into the T-nuts from the bottom, to keep the threads open, suck them down tight, and then putty the top, over them.
That will give you a smooth top to put the graphics on, but not let the hardware show.
You can still run your dustwashers on top, if you want to.

Oscar has good pictures HERE of how everything will come together nicely with a true Williams bottom mount.
That's basically exactly how I did my Crazy Climber CP, except that I glued an extra piece of 1/4" wood over the top, rather than messing around routing a piece of plexi in to cover everything.

[wintermute]

Hmm, I'm in the beginning stages of building a CP, and I was planing on bottom mountng (already have T-nuts, etc) but I was originally thinking of putting the dust washers on top (didn't know they could go anywhere else).  In the williams bottom mount, is the dust washer between the CP overlay and the CP?  Does it slide around in that area without any trouble?  It seems like the CPO could sag into the space outside the washer, or the washer could get held up in there if the plexi squeezed too much on it.  I'd actually prefer to do it this way because my joystick surrounds have some graphics that I'd like to see more of (dust washer covers a lot).  Do you think I'll have good luck trying this?

thanks,

wm

[NoOne=NBA=]

The way Oscar did it, the overlay sticks to the bare wood in the front, but to a piece of plexi on the top where the sticks/buttons are.
He routed into the top of the wood CP, to accomodate the piece of plexi that gave the overlay a smooth surface to stick to, while allowing the dustwashers to slide without sticking.

I built my wood CP in three layers.
The bottom most layer is 3/4", and has 3/8" routed from the bottom to allow the sticks to sit into it a bit.
The piece over that is 1/4", and has the dustwasher rings routed into the top.
With those two pieces glued up, I drilled, and counter-bored the holes for the T-nuts.
With the T-nuts/dustwashers in place, I glued the top layer of 1/4" on, to cover the routing on the middle piece.
That way I didn't have to worry about getting an exact routing on the top for everything to sit smooth.
I could have done the entire panel on the single 3/4", with a 1/4" cover, but wanted the extra 1/4" to cover the bottom part of the monitor front glass.

My routing on the bottom for the stick is rough because I did it freehand.
It doesn't show at all when the cabinet is assembled though, so I wasn't concerned with having a perfect job on it.

[nickbuol]

I routed the bottom and did the t-nut thing.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Like RaggedEdge mentions though, you will lose some joystick height vs. top mounting

If you plan to have hidden hardware, you're really not losing much by bottom mounting.
My joysticks are deeper than I needed them to be at 3/4" below the top of the CP.
I could easily have made them 1/2" below the top.
I'm planning to get a set of RandyT's balltops, which will gain me back 1/2" vs. the stock handles.

Best case scenario on a top mount, you are going to be 1/4" below the top because you have to have something there to cover the bolt heads.

Going with exposed hardware will let you go 1/4" on a bottom mount, and 1/16" on the top mount because you still need something to cover the top of the joystick base, so that the overlay doesn't sink into it.

Top mounts are definitely the harder of the two methods to get to look good also.

[AceTKK]

I've been facing this exact dilemna.  Thanks for all the useful tips guys!  I think I'm going to go with the bottom mount / t-nut solution for the reasons listed above.  For anybody who's considering this method, www.partsexpress.com sells t-nuts that are designed for use in MDF construction (speaker boxes).  I'm going to try those out. 

-Ace-

[NoOne=NBA=]

Make sure you check all your T-nuts, to be sure that the bolts thread into them, BEFORE you seal over them.
I had one that got tweaked, and had to be fixed on my CP.
If I hadn't checked, I'd be one bolt short on one of my joysticks now.

[dema]

What size t nut/bolt did you guys use for the joystick mount? I'm using the 49 way sticks. Did you go with machine bolts?

My panel is 5/8" so I'm just going to bottom mount the joysticks without routing, as that would compromise its strength. I'm thinking that should be fine in terms of the joystick height.