Author Topic: euro-stick / suzo system 500 (Read 5018 times)

Nataq · « **on:** August 11, 2005, 05:15:28 pm »

Hey there! (lot of questions today!)

Ive been searching the forum a lot for this one but didnt found anything. Any one have tried this joystick ? Seems like it could be a good 4 way just by looking at the restrictor underneath as shown on ultimarc website (http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html) Restrictor looks good and solid. I am looking for a good 4-way and wondering about this one. I heard Ms. Pacman one is the best but also expensive. I want to save everybucks I can!

So anyone have this joystick ? Please share some toughts!

Level42 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:35:05 pm »

Yup, got two of them, they came with my cab

As I'm in Europe (actualy very near Suzo headquarters) we see this stick a lot.
What is there to say, it's a great stick. Plays excellent 4 ways. I just never liked the clicking sound of microswitches.

A long, long time ago I bought a home version of this stick, the Competition Pro. This was the first version with....leaf switches !! Still works great on my 8-bit Atari

Back to the arcade versions....there are two ball sizes, and three handle colors. Don't know if Ultimarc offert them though....
I keep my restrictor slightly loose, and turn it by hand whenever I swith between 4 and 8 way...

I like this stick mostly because I'm kinda used to Suzo I guess......

but since I don't like clicks, I want two Happ P360's, but those are too expensive for your goals

elvis · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:49:05 pm »

I've got 3 "OMNI Stick Basic" units on my cocktail from GGG:
http://www.groovygamegear.com/page15.html

I think they're the same as the Suzo units.

The throw on these is VERY short. You only need a few millimeters of push to trigger the microswitches. I found the design and throw very appealing for shooters, which is why I put them in my cocktail. These are a lot easier on the wrist after long sustained play.

My upright cabinet plays mostly fighters, and for that I've got the J-Stick balltops (bought through OzStick here in Australia). The throw on these is much longer, and more suited to the complex moves you need to do for special moves and whatnot.

My third cabinet is being built with Happ Competition Pro sticks. They've also got a long throw, and I find the pressure needed for these to be a bit more appealing than the light J-Sticks. Plus they're the sticks that were the most common in arcades on JAMMA cabs when I was growing up.

Nataq · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2005, 06:17:52 pm »

Thanks guys! Ill be picking up this one I think. So it does feel OK for 4-way games ? Some people were complaining about some games using other joysticks where for example there is dead zone or they still can hit diagonals... no such problem here ?

Im just wondering why theres not many talk about this stick in this forum... Can we say its as good as the Ms. Pacman one ?

Nataq · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2005, 07:18:14 pm »

By the way, how do you mount those stick ? I saw a mounting kit in GGG. Do I really need this ? Cant I just mount those like I can mount supers ? I am planning to route the base in the CP so there wont be no screw above the CP so I can fit the lexan above everything. And how big should be the hole in the lexan ?

Nataq · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:13:13 am »

Please please! I would need the dimension of this stick (plate) so I can place it on my CP. I have help from someone tomorow and will be cutting/routing everything. I need to finish my CP design today. I couldnt find any dimension on the ultimarc website.

PLEASE!

***Also! Would need the thickness of the plate if possible. Im planning to route the plate in the CP.***

Level42 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:34:26 am »

OK Suzo, who builds these sticks calls them:

Universal STC Joysticks Series 500. So whatever they're called by someone else this is their name. (STC stands for Suzo Techinical Components).

Comparing to Pac Man: I can't remember how the original felt to be honest. I played a lot of Ms. Pac man but I doubt it was in an original cab....and it was SOOOOOOOOO long ago.
All I can say: no you will not hit diagonals with this baby in 4-ways mode ! The restrictor plate is thick metal, unless you're Superman, The Hulk or Mr. Incredible, no-way

And yes it plays Pac Man FINE. Still this is just my opinion. I like short throws. Makes it possible to change directions very quickly (f.i. to wait near a power pill and snap it just before the first ghost comes along....)
Let me put it this way: The first time I ran MAME and Ms. Pac Man and I played it with this joystick it felt, for the very first time after so many years like playing a true and real arcade game, and my favorite as well

I want the Happ P360's, I have high hopes, but still encertain about throw and feel etc. That's the gamble I have to take...

They're very sturdy. As mentioned, my cab had two (older versions) built-in when I bought it. The left (player 1) stick is a little bit less tight then the right one (logical: this got played much more) so I switched them around for the time...the better one feels like new to me.

I can make some measurement for you if you like, but WITHOUT GUARANTEE, as my sticks are about 14 years old, and I can only give you metric results, you do the conversion (google !)....

Nataq · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:49:26 am »

Would be awsome! Would need this before tonight if its not asking too much

And the way your describing the thing just confirmed that I need this stick for my 4-way. Wow! Thats been a hard one to decide...

Level42 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:50:17 am »

OK. This baby has three (yes 3) sets of holes, to make it fit most cabs I guess.

(Sizes between the HEART of the holes !)

The outer-most set:
7,7 cm x 6,6 cm

The "middle" set:
8,0 cm x 5,0 cm

The inner-most set:
8,6 cm x 4,0 cm

I would use the outer most set for your situation (max. stability).

The plate of the stick is 1,1 cm. thick. DO NOTE ULTIMARC'S REMARK ABOUT THE RESESS NEEDED AROUND THE SHAFT.

I can take some pictures if you want. The picture on Ultimarc's site is the one from the Suzo catalogue (pdf on www.suzo.com). I think this is the version with the 2,3 and 5 way (!?!?!) restrictor plate (the lowest part) because mine doesn't have this, so it's only switchable 4-8 ways.

Nataq · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2005, 08:56:27 am »

Nice! Pictures would be the cherry on the sunday! And by the way... I think you just made the 15000 post! Congrats!

Nataq · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2005, 09:09:13 am »

Ho and those mesurements are from hole to hole right ? For the joystick placement on my CP using photoshop I would neend to know the rectangle size that I will need to route in the CP. It should be a little bigger than the hole to hole mesurement...

Level42 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2005, 05:47:00 pm »

I measured hole to hole, heart of the hole.

Here's some pictures, some turned out worse than I thought, but you get the idea about how the holes are I guess.

A)
The outer-most set:
7,7 cm x 6,6 cm

B)
The "middle" set:
8,0 cm x 5,0 cm

C)
The inner-most set:
8,6 cm x 4,0 cm

Level42 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2005, 05:55:56 pm »

NOTE: The restrictor plate on the above picture is WRONG. It is not fully turned to either side !!! Just so you know

Also: I mentioned the restrictor plate is of metal, not true, it's plastic (very hard and sturdy though) and the plate covering it is metal.....

Here's another pic to be complete....

Happy drilling, and no guarantee !!! I'd wait until I had the stick in my hands, but that's up to you. Maybe Andy of Ultimarc can give you a proper pdf with actual sizes ?

Grasshopper · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2005, 06:00:01 pm »

Here's a mounting plate diagram I did in TurboCAD.

Level42 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2005, 06:33:20 am »

Zo Grasshopper=Andy ?

Thanks, well I was off a mm here and there obviusly. Nataq, I'd trust that drawing of Grasshpper more thanm my measurement skills

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2005, 10:02:00 am »

Quote from: Level42 on August 13, 2005, 06:33:20 am

Zo Grasshopper=Andy ?

Nope, Andy = Andy Warne.

Snowbird has a mounting method for wood panels in this message: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=11929.msg93085#msg93085 (ignore the OSCAR-RandyT stuff in that particular thread).

I have the Prodigy joysticks which are based on this stick. They are excellent in 4-way. No chance of hitting diagonals, almost no dead spot on the diagonals. Very good gameplay.

The throw is short, but I like that. The throw is even shorter in 8-way mode. They work fine for 8-way shooters, probably not the best stick for 8-way fighters, but I don't play those.

Hope this helps.

Level42 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2005, 02:03:12 pm »

I also like the short throw of these sticks. In fact I grew up with the home version (the magnificant Suzo Competition Pro) BUT !!!!! My Competition Pro was a really early version with leafs instead of microswitches.
This has a very short throw and travel but without the terrible microswitch clicks and "pressure point".

People claimed the leafs were wearing out easy, maybe on arcade machines, not on (heavily played) home games. I still got this stick to day, and it works as brilliant as it did about 20 years ago when I bought it

Sooooooo....my ideal would be a Suzo "feel" joystick (short throw !) with leafs....or....
maybe that the Happ P360 would fit my needs ? How's the "throw"on this thing ? And the travel ?? I hate LOOOOOONG travels because, quite simply, it makes your responses too slow...

Grasshopper · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2005, 06:50:56 am »

Quote from: Level42 on August 13, 2005, 02:03:12 pm

I also like the short throw of these sticks. In fact I grew up with the home version (the magnificant Suzo Competition Pro) BUT !!!!! My Competition Pro was a really early version with leafs instead of microswitches.
This has a very short throw and travel but without the terrible microswitch clicks and "pressure point".

People claimed the leafs were wearing out easy, maybe on arcade machines, not on (heavily played) home games. I still got this stick to day, and it works as brilliant as it did about 20 years ago when I bought it

Sooooooo....my ideal would be a Suzo "feel" joystick (short throw !) with leafs....or....
maybe that the Happ P360 would fit my needs ? How's the "throw"on this thing ? And the travel ?? I hate LOOOOOONG travels because, quite simply, it makes your responses too slow...

I'm also a big fan of the Suzo 500s. I think a lot of people are put off by their appearance but they are very good for game playing once you get used to them.

Suzo actually sells an "inductive" version of the joystick which might fit your requirements.

http://www.suzo.com/suzo/product.asp?nP=4545

I wonder if Randy, Andy or Ponyboy would consider stocking them as it's very difficult to order directly from Suzo these days.

Nataq · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2005, 10:14:39 am »

Thanks to all of you! Very usefull info, thats what I needed. For some reasons (read booze) I didnt started the CP yesterday. Ive read before not to drink the night before to start... seems true

I wont again.

And about the short throw, thats why I want to make this one my 4-way. That brings quick response the games like pacman. By the way, by looking at the joystick it seems to me that the handle cannot be replaced. Is that true ? Or if we can is it only by the same one ?

Nataq · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2005, 11:13:54 am »

Hey Grasshopper! In the picture you sent that is the plate/base that come with the joystick right ? Because I heard that there is as well a mounting plate for this joystick. This is not the mounting plate dimension right ?

Grasshopper · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2005, 11:21:06 am »

Quote from: Nataq on August 14, 2005, 11:13:54 am

Hey Grasshopper! In the picture you sent that is the plate/base that come with the joystick right ? Because I heard that there is as well a mounting plate for this joystick. This is not the mounting plate dimension right ?

Yes, just the joystick.

Level42 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2005, 02:07:36 pm »

Nataq:

I think the handle CAN be replaced. The omni stick Basic (which is in fact a STC 500) handles can be found here:
http://www.groovygamegear.com/cgi/surfshop/shop.cgi?ud=Q1BJTEY3Vk1aWCUlJSUlJTExMjQwNDE0OTgA&storeid=1&cols=1&categories=0025&&c=detail.htm&itemid=VBALL01

As long as the handle has the same diameter and place for the E-ring, you should be able to use it I guess. Sadly no Illuminated ball tops from Slik Stik, as they only seem to focus an Happ sticks....but the handles of the 500 are also 10 mm, so the only problem would be a right place for the E-ring.

Also remember that the handles come in black, red and blue standard if it's just the color you want. AND the ball top is available in 32 and 38 mm.

Grasshopper: What an incredible find !!!! I've got the Suzo catalogue right here at hands, but this is NOT in it !!?!?!?!?!? This might exactly be what I want and need

Wonder why this is on the site and not in the catalogue (anymore) !?!?!
It's not on the pricelist either

Will contact Suzo tomorrow....

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2005, 06:46:04 am »

Quote from: Nataq on August 14, 2005, 11:13:54 am

Hey Grasshopper! In the picture you sent that is the plate/base that come with the joystick right ? Because I heard that there is as well a mounting plate for this joystick. This is not the mounting plate dimension right ?

Mounting plate is available from www.groovygamegear.com and is 5 inches square.

Level42 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:14:14 pm »

NEWSFLASH !!!

Got info on the Suzo Inductive Joysticks:

Reason why it's not in the catalogue anymore: they are being phased out

At least, the version with the 38 mm handle. The 32 mm handle is not on the list to be phased out....all very strange.

I asked if there was a reason for this, and yes. They sold only 3 units of the 38mm handle version.............didn't ask about the 32 mm though...

Anyway....They still have 7 on stock. I want 3 so that leaves 4 38mm pcs. left. Is anyone else interested in these joysticks ? Please let me know ASAP and I'll see what I can do.

There are 28 pcs. of the 32 mm handle in stock. I can order these to.
If we can get some numbers, I'll be able to get a better price of course.

It IS a bit of a gamble. I haven't played these sticks, haven't even seen them for real, but I trust they will be Suzo quality, so very sturdy. There is a potentiometer for adjusting it, so I really wonder what this will do. Probably you can set sensetivity or something. They are also 4-8 way switchable.
My guess is that you can replace the handle with the "regular" 500 series replacement handles....but not sure until I get them.

These sticks may become very rare, and I do believe they are very good.
The price will be around the P360 SPECIAL OFFER PRICE so pretty competetive !!!

I will have to send them from Europe so please understand about shipping costs.

Please PM me if you are interested.

I will also put up a thread on the "For sale" section

Grasshopper · « **Reply #24 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:49:10 pm »

PM sent.

It's not surprising they are not selling if they don't appear in the main catalogue.

RandyT · « **Reply #25 on:** August 16, 2005, 02:32:20 pm »

Quote from: Grasshopper on August 14, 2005, 06:50:56 am

I wonder if Randy, Andy or Ponyboy would consider stocking them as it's very difficult to order directly from Suzo these days.

I am looking into these right now. I'll bite the bullet and buy a sample to make sure there are no problems interfacing them to the types of electronics we are all accustomed to using.

If they test well and people seem to like them, I will start carrying a stock of them at the store. If the shafts are interchangable with the 500's, I may even be able to put a ball-top on them.

RandyT

Level42 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2005, 03:10:08 am »

Quote from: RandyT on August 16, 2005, 02:32:20 pm

Quote from: Grasshopper on August 14, 2005, 06:50:56 am
I wonder if Randy, Andy or Ponyboy would consider stocking them as it's very difficult to order directly from Suzo these days.

I am looking into these right now. I'll bite the bullet and buy a sample to make sure there are no problems interfacing them to the types of electronics we are all accustomed to using.

I specificaly asked this and there should be no problem, except that you of course need to supply 5V to it, just like the P360.

Nataq · « **Reply #27 on:** August 25, 2005, 10:30:15 am »

First thanks to all your feedback! I just received my suzo 500 joystick this morning. That brings me another question. I didnt received any instructions with it and im wondering how to put that joystick in 4-way mode. I guessed by looking at the picture on ultimarc website that the restrictor was the 2 triangular pieces of metal that shows on this pic at the bottom of joystick but it seems that when I moved those it brings the joystick to 2-way only. Im wondering now if I need to disemble the red part of the stick (also a restrictor ??) and turn it to get 4-way... Im I right

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2005, 10:50:59 am »

Quote from: Nataq on August 25, 2005, 10:30:15 am

I need to disemble the red part of the stick (also a restrictor ??) and turn it to get 4-way... Im I right

You don't need to disassemble anything, you should be able to just rotate the red part to switch between 4-way and 8-way. The Prodigies only use the red restrictors, the bottom gray restictors are used to limit the stick to two way mode.

BTW, a little late now, but I should have dug up this thread before and the link to OSCAR's draft review: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=3733.0

Nataq · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2005, 12:38:15 pm »

Ok I got it. Actually I had to loosen the screws to be able to turn the restrictor...

Level42 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2005, 05:45:29 pm »

True. If you leave them not completely tighted you can switch easily from 4 to 8 by hand....


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