Rotational control for Frontline hack?

[spidermonkey]

Has anybody thought of fabricating  the rotation/fire button on the Taito game "Frontline"?  I know I could probably use a mechanical rotary stick but I hate playing games with the wrong controls as it just ruins the original experiance. I thought of maybe hacking a old manual channel changer mechanism from an old TV but I have nothing to go by. I can't even find a picture of the bottom of an original to see how it is designed. Has anybody tried to tackle this

[Lilwolf]

They go up for sale on ebay every 2-3 months and go for about 50 bucks.

btw, frontlines are diffenet then the other rotaries in that it's an 8 way, not 12way.  So it's basically a joystick thats always pointing in a direction.  The 12 ways have 12 different connections (and 1 for ground) and only one is active.

So they are different and the driver for frontline doesn't allow for you to add a left or right.  So it's not so easy to do.

[spidermonkey]

So in other words if I was able to get my hands on one I would have to remove the actuator to relieve all of the leaf switches before trying to set it up in the mame controller menu. Then I could just manually activate each leaf switch one at a time with my fingers to send the signal to the ingame menu. Once programmed I could put the actuator back in and it wouldn't matter if it is always pressing one or two of the leaf switches after its programmed. I assume it probably uses 4 leaf switches and for diagonals the actuator just presses two of the leaf switches at once. Im willing to bet I could make one with a channel changer,4 leaf switches and a  microswitch button for firing. Then all I have to do is design a actuator that presses the leaf switches in a rotating motion instead of the type on a normal joystick which has to actually move toward the switch to press it. I dunno, maybe I'm getting in over my head

[u_rebelscum]

So in other words if I was able to get my hands on one I would have to remove the actuator to relieve all of the leaf switches before trying to set it up in the mame controller menu. Then I could just manually activate each leaf switch one at a time with my fingers to send the signal to the ingame menu. Once programmed I could put the actuator back in and it wouldn't matter if it is always pressing one or two of the leaf switches after its programmed. I assume it probably uses 4 leaf switches and for diagonals the actuator just presses two of the leaf switches at once.

Sounds good.  It can be much easier if you use windows mame, or wait until dosmame 0.63 if you use dmame.  Then you would not need to take apart the device by using the ctrlr ini files to set the inputs instead.  Read mame/docs/ctrlr.txt that came with mame and http://www.mameworld.net/easyemu/mamecontrolini.htm for how to use the ctrlr ini method.

[Lilwolf]

The trouble is that frontline (the mame driver) doesn't allow for mouse control of 'l' 'r' buttons to work.  Instead it's closer to the original that it's two joysticks... and a fire button.

So in other words if I was able to get my hands on one I would have to remove the actuator to relieve all of the leaf switches before trying to set it up in the mame controller menu. Then I could just manually activate each leaf switch one at a time with my fingers to send the signal to the ingame menu. Once programmed I could put the actuator back in and it wouldn't matter if it is always pressing one or two of the leaf switches after its programmed. I assume it probably uses 4 leaf switches and for diagonals the actuator just presses two of the leaf switches at once.

Sounds good.  It can be much easier if you use windows mame, or wait until dosmame 0.63 if you use dmame.  Then you would not need to take apart the device by using the ctrlr ini files to set the inputs instead.  Read mame/docs/ctrlr.txt that came with mame and http://www.mameworld.net/easyemu/mamecontrolini.htm for how to use the ctrlr ini method.

[u_rebelscum]

The trouble is that frontline (the mame driver) doesn't allow for mouse control of 'l' 'r' buttons to work.  Instead it's closer to the original that it's two joysticks... and a fire button.

Yes, it is hard to make a frontline controller from 12-way rotator or a mouse.

But Mame causes no problems if he "gets his hands on one (original)" or "(made) one with a channel changer,4 leaf switches and a microswitch button for firing". (quotes from his post)

With either of those, in the ctrlr ini file, set the P1_JOYSTICKRIGHT_direction, and P1_JOYSTICKLEFT_direction inputs, with the JoystickRight as the movement stick, and the JoystickLeft as the 8-way rotator, either the original or his handmade one as he described.

The only problem, IMO, is that his controller would be useful for only frontline.

[spidermonkey]

Yeh I know it sounds kinda crazy to go through all the trouble to buy/build a controller for only one game but its one of my favorates and it might be fun to try and build one. My wife already thinks I'm nuts for building an arcade machine so I might as well keep the fire of insanity burning bright. (I hope she doesn't want that cheesy little 13" color TV in the attic because that puppy's comin apart this weekend

[Howard_Casto]

Yeh I know it sounds kinda crazy to go through all the trouble to buy/build a controller for only one game but its one of my favorates and it might be fun to try and build one. My wife already thinks I'm nuts for building an arcade machine so I might as well keep the fire of insanity burning bright. (I hope she doesn't want that cheesy little 13" color TV in the attic because that puppy's comin apart this weekend

No crazier than putting a diagonal 4-way on a cp for qbert, which i've seen a lot.  But my question is why not just get a regular rotary stick?  It would still work fairly well for frontline and you could use it for all rotary games.  

[spidermonkey]

 I just realized that a tv channel changer has too many positions/notches (13 positions for 13 channels) The Frontline controller was only an 8 position dial so Im afraid its not going to work . Howard I am going to get a couple of rotorys and a interface from Druin anyhow because I do like Ikari Warriors and others too but I just thought it would be cool to have a real Frontline controller. This idea is far from dead though. I'll just have to do some more brainstorming and come up with something else. Oh well, I guess that tv in the attic will live to see another day for now.

[u_rebelscum]

No crazier than putting a diagonal 4-way on a cp for qbert, which i've seen a lot.  But my question is why not just get a regular rotary stick?  It would still work fairly well for frontline and you could use it for all rotary games.  

Frontline is not treated like a normal rotary stick in mame.  Frontline's rotary is treated like an 8-way joystick with four switches (as it should), while normal rotaries have two data points in mame, clockwise and counterclockwise.  Most normal rotaries use druid's interface and output these two data, which wouldn't work for frontline.

Better alternative is a trigger joystick.

[Howard_Casto]

I was referring to an optical rotary stick.  As nice as druins interface is I think it' severe overkill.  Just get an optipac (or hack a mouse) and an optical rotary stick an you are all set.  Druin's interface is like 40 bucks which is fine but it only does one thing.  An optipac is about 50 and can drive your trackballs and spinners too.  Just in mame you take the "rotate left" key and asign it to x axis - and the "rotate right" key to x axis +  Since the mouse can move infinately on it's axis you simply keep rotating the stick to keep "pressing" the rotate key.  

However you are probably right about about the trigger stick, I thought I knew how you controlled front-line but by that info apparently not.  Sorry about that.

[u_rebelscum]

Druin's interface is like 40 bucks which is fine but it only does one thing.

LOL.  Not that I have Druin's interface or a qbert joystick (yet) , but I had to laugh when I saw that in this thread.

However you are probably right about about the trigger stick, I thought I knew how you controlled front-line but by that info apparently not.  Sorry about that.

No problems.  I just learned it yeserday, checking frontline out because of this post.

BTW, I put too many smilely faces on this post.  I must be getting sleepy, sorry if my giddy humor did not get through.  

[Lilwolf]

btw, I have a qbert joystick... And its NOT only for qbert...(it works well for congobongo... but congobongo didn't have a rotated 4way originally I don't think.  But it should have been).

Druids interface is for maybe 20 games.  And can be used on all mouse games...

I am considering modifying the code in mame (have been for a long time... time is the problem) that would make it so you don't need druids interface (so you can hook all 12 connectors up directly to a encoder)... At the same time, I could see spending the time to make it so you can use 'l' and 'r' in frontline.  

So having a druid controller and modifying the frontline code would probably be the best solution.

[Chris]

A Frontline controller should be fairly easy to make.  Use a joystick base, run a shaft through it, attach a knob to the shaft, create a cam for the bottom that will hit the microswitches.  Add a spring under the knob and mount another microswitch beneath the shaft so you can press the knob to fire (wasn't that how it worked?).

--Chris

[spidermonkey]

Yeh but Chris, there has to be resistance between the 8 positions so I'd have to make some kind of gear or cog that has 8 notches so that when you turn the knob it sort of locks itself into whichever of the 8 directions that I turn it to. It can't just be a free spinning dial with a built in fire button. That would basically be a 'Disc's of Tron" spinner which is cool too but not what I'm shooting for. The Frontline controller is closer to the joystick family rather then a spinner. I wish I could find a damn picture of the bottom of an original. Maybe I'' have to post a message on one of the Arcade collectors webring forums

[Beley]

Have you thought of just using a simple 8 posotion rotary switch, you would have to cut/grind off the tab that stops it from going all the way around

[Lilwolf]

If you are going to build one (I thought about it, and I couldn't come up with a good plan).  I would go with a 12 way (or any way... IE just turns)...  Then modify the drivers to convert an 'l' and 'r' to a up->upleft->left->downleft ect.

This way it would work with frontline AND all the others

[Birdtales]

They go up for sale on ebay every 2-3 months and go for about 50 bucks.

Just got a deal on one of these myself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=751797680

 I figured for ten bucks it might be fun to play with.

[Chris]

Bob Roberts has these for sale at 15 dollars each in his Klearance Korner.... aren't these the right control?



--Chris

[Chris]

They go up for sale on ebay every 2-3 months and go for about 50 bucks.

Just got a deal on one of these myself.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=751797680

 I figured for ten bucks it might be fun to play with.

Looks like that one's missing its bottom microswitch...

--Chris

[Birdtales]

Looks like that one's missing its bottom microswitch...

--Chris

Yea I saw that but it looks like a standard button microswitch (with a lever actuator) and I have a small box of those for just such occasions.