In the long run, how much damage can Foley do?

[Tiger-Heli]

To counter Foleys, I'll announce my service... "fROM's^TM"  .  Priced at $0.98 to $9.98...

Just as legit as his "service".

Doesn't someone already offer the service you are proposing, usually for the cost of the media and postage ?  <ducking and covering>

[KevSteele]

Unfortunately, if we boycott Foley, I can easily see the IP owners looking at the situation and saying "see, I told you no one would buy ROMs..."

If the IP owners are (or become) convinced that no one will buy the ROMS, that would indicate the ROMS have no commercial value and make them less likely to hassle the MAME team about them, would it not, or am I being simplistic???

I don't know - perhaps. But it's also possible that they see the interest in retrogaming, know their IP is being used but not purchased, and decide that the reason no one is buying the ROMs is because everyone is pirating them. They then decide to crack down on the pirating to increase sales of the ROMs.

I don't know how this is going to shake down, but it seems the industry is becoming more aware and interested in the MAME community, for better or worse...

Kevin

[rackoon]

O.K, let me get all this speculation right.

First, Foley is going to contact folks like Namco and get the license to sell individual games for up to $10.00 on a irom like site.

Second, he my hold top titles for use on his over priced cabs only.

WHO, (I'm not being sarcastic) is he going to sell these iroms to? People who build their own cabs? Joe Smoe with a desk top computer? Small garage companies that build cabs?

I dont get it. The only people who would spend $10.00 on Asteroids
 is the custom cab building hobbyist like us.

Are there enough pre-made cabs being sold out there that this whole thing would be profitable.

And yes, I did read that he doesn't want to sell to us hobbyist ( I be live I heard him gnashing his teeth when I read that) I know, he wants to commercialize the industry.

[Haze]

First, Foley is going to contact folks like Namco and get the license to sell individual games for up to $10.00 on a irom like site.

Second, he my hold top titles for use on his over priced cabs only.

WHO, (I'm not being sarcastic) is he going to sell these iroms to? People who build their own cabs? Joe Smoe with a desk top computer? Small garage companies that build cabs?

If thats what he wants to try then hes welcome to try, however given the shareware alternatives and the fact that most gamers are going to choose pretty graphics over classics I suspect he may struggle.

What Foley must determine is the true market value of these things to the average user, taking in to account their other (legal) options.  For the most part people want to play games because they're *fun* to play, Pacman being Pacman does not automatically make it more fun.

Foley is a businessman, and these are the simply basics of any business, if his service is to be successful he will have to negotiate a price he believes he will be able to sell at while still making a profit.  Looking at the poll on Retroblast this indicates under $1 per title.  http://www.retroblast.com/polls.php?poll_id=17  with things such as DRM no doubt devaluing the product even futher should that route be taken, even if I believe it to be doubtful.   I highly suspect that any attempt to charge more than that would result in a very low level of sales, people don't need to play games and given the choice between paying more, or not playing the game at all I suspect the majority of people would choose to not play the game, and instead seek an alternative updated version which they see as better value.

Emulation is not the enemy here, the fact that there are newer, better games retaining the same simple gameplay is.

Again, it remains to be seen, price something right and people will buy.  I just purchased a number of original CDs because they were

[rackoon]

I agree,
    Foley is trippin. If he is lucky he might get a $1 a game. I'd give even more to k@ck him in the n@#$'s (sorry, I should hide my feelings.)
    I owned my own business ( a rather large business), and Its a brutal world {I finally gave up}. Foley is making a financial mistake that will haunt him for a long time). Hey, Good luck dude, (kiss of death) if you think that you can legitimize MAME for a reasonable price, GO FOR IT!

BETTER ADVICE, spend your hard earned money on stocks, bonds, and commodities. (better payout).

[MrTroy]

Well it all depends on how you do things. If I were creating an iRom type of service. I'd make an iTune style interface. And have it where you "stream" the game to your computer. You actually would pay the quarter to play the game. It wouldn't be that hard. All he has to do is build a front end around the already exsiting MAME(tm) applications out there and go from there.

Who would take part in it? Pfft. Sell "The Hammer" and find some company dumb enough to run those stupid buy a pepsi win a free song things. You'd be surprised what people would be willing to buy and do to be "Cool" much like the 12 year old kids with Nintendo shirts on saying "Know your roots"

[danny_galaga]

i agree that one buck is a sweet spot in pricing. people will pay for a rom at that price. hell, i paid for some starroms a while back and was more than a buck each, forgotten now but it was maybe about 4 bucks a pop.

a dollar sounds good when you consider that i saw a cd in the supermarket the other day which had 12 classic genuine atari games on it (for pc) including asteroids and centipede. i think the price was $9.99 australian. and bear in mind there would be a little bit of work to adapt them for pc where as just a rom on its own as someone else has mentioned needs zero development to make it ready for sale.

[Crazy Cooter]

I wouldn't give Foley a penny, much less a dollar.  Anything he offers I plan on contacting the companies direct to:
1) See if Foley really has the rights to sell it.
2) Find out if I can buy it direct from them because I simply refuse to do business with him.

If enough of us complain, another source will become available.

[RayB]

He'll never get the rights to Namco games, and not the Donkey Kong trio either. Just visit Namco Arcade website, and you will see they have a Donkey Kong multi-game cabinet for sale, as well as they are soon releasing a 25th anniversary Pacman cabinet.

Namco sells these cabinets for over $3000 each. Imagine if they grant a license to Fooley so he can sell the ROMs for $10 each. Joe hobbyist buys the $10 roms, then puts his multi-cab for sale on Ebay with these legit roms. All of a sudden, Namco's trying to sell their $3k cabinet against Joe Hobbyist's $600 home-job that has even more games on it.

Nuh uh. Won't happen, at least not until Namco determines no one is buying their cabs anymore.

[rackoon]

I agree with RAYB.
Namco isn't going to give Foley irom  selling rights.

I'm hoping that Namco is looking towards the commercial market. Example: theaters, 7Elevens, casinos.

I think they know that most hobbyest couldn't afford there cabs.
    Although I could see how they might see the cab making industry as a small threat. But on the other hand, these cabs are going in residential basements not commercial establishments.

For example, I doubt that we will ever see a Ultracade cab in a movie theater (not without legal roms that he cant get the rights to anyway). So how of a threat does the cab making business pose? I doubt they barley noticed until Foley brought it to their attention.

[IntruderAlert]

Ultracade is commercial market so sure you wll see them in theatres like this one:
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~locations/PlaceSearch.php3?code=vastereg

[danny_galaga]

and namco are making easy money licensing for other products anyway. like the 5-1 joystick i bought. easy, easy money. and no real threat to their cabs. ok, ive seen here someone made a mini-cab with one but as long as they dont offer a whole buncha games on one piece of hardware they should be fine.

edit: as an example of how to price yourself out of the market. i went and saw madagascar last night. the cinema used to have normal pricing and, like all cinemas, not many patrons. well the new owners dropped the pricing dramatically. the most you pay is $6.80 ($5.00 student). thats AUS dollars. three movies last night (including mine) were SOLD OUT! madagascar was in a 500 seat cinema. now thats smart. another example is one of those games you can download off msn or yahoo. you know, trial and buy. i tried one and like it. but they were asking $20 so i just downloaded a crack for it. if they asked $4.99 i would have paid. a bird in the bush...

[btoddkelley]

Ahhh the concept of elasticity of demand!
Ed=percentage change in quantity demanded/percentage change in price

revenues are maximized where Ed=1

sorry, not teaching this summer. regressing to last spring!

oh and, no one will buy foleys roms.
Todd
resident economist

[blackzc]

Can someon give a quick rundown of what happening?

Who is foley?
How can he tradmark somthing somone else created?
How he charge for games that belong  to nintendo/taito/capcom/ect?
 Is he going to be in contract talks with all these companies?

I read through the post but it still not making complete sense to me.

Whats scares me is it seems this guy is trying to become the judge/jury/exicutioner of the rom world.

And all the big game makers may just let him do it. It would take all the heat off of them.

[Tiger-Heli]

Can someon give a quick rundown of what happening?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,32730.0.html (nineteen pages)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,36738.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,38190.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,37734.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,37779.0.html
Sorry for all the reading.

Who is foley?

Top dog at an arcade machine company called Ultracade.

How can he tradmark somthing somone else created?

Are you talking about ROMS or MAME?  Legally he can't, but that didn't stop him from trying to  say he owned the trademark to MAME and no one else could use it.

How he charge for games that belong  to nintendo/taito/capcom/ect?
Is he going to be in contract talks with all these companies?

He might negotiate with them and obtain rights to re-sell the ROMS and pass on a royalty fee to them.  He also might say he has rights to them and sell the ROMS and then send out letters saying not to use them if any of the game companies complain.

I read through the post but it still not making complete sense to me.

Read the linked posts.

Whats scares me is it seems this guy is trying to become the judge/jury/exicutioner of the rom world.

Yeah, except the biggest change might be that ROMS would only be readily available from him.  ROMS are readily available now, and MAME is readily available now, so if you are set now you only would miss out on future emulated games and improvements to the MAME core.

And all the big game makers may just let him do it. It would take all the heat off of them.

There's no heat on the big game makers.  They own the copyrights and IP rights to the games.  They're in the driver's seat.  It might help legitimize the MAME project, or it might be the match that starts the legal bonfire that shuts MAME down or drives it commercial or underground.  I think that's what everyone is waiting to see.