Ultracade send Cease and Desist letter

[DreamArcades]

I just returned from a trip to find a letter from Ultracade

[stevodevo]

Dang dude! sorry to hear that!

[shmokes]

Ignore it.  If you're not putting roms on your machines you aren't breaking the law.  This would be akin to a company like Dell taking Shuttle to court because Shuttle sells barebones PC's that come without any operating system or software installed.

There are thousands of PC games that play very well in an arcade cabinet, including many classic arcade games that can be purchased by your customers in the form of compilation discs such as Midway Classics and so on.

[Timoe]

tell em to pound sand.

[Fat_Trucker]

What was the deal with this in the end?. Did Ultracade successfully get the MAME tm?.

Anyway surely if you remove any MAME branded art or emulation software you aren't doing anything they can challenge?. What end users choose to do after the fact is an issue for them surely.

If you have a valid licence to distribute Atari roms then there must be someone in the emu community that can write you a dedicated proprietary emulator to package with the machine. If someone chooses to install additional games or software afterward then its up to them. The same as with any other computer.

[DreamArcades]

There are thousands of PC games that play very well in an arcade cabinet, including many classic arcade games that can be purchased by your customers in the form of compilation discs such as Midway Classics and so on.

Yes, we have recently started including free copies for Atari 80 classic games with all our tables and kits. Unfortunately, I think ignoring the problem will not make it go away. I think I

[teef two]

Unfair competition! Good grief. So they must think you are the Microsoft of the Arcade Cabinet world then.

I know nothing about US Law but this sounds very , very dodgy to me. Just an attempt by this idiot at Ultracade to remove the competition. Honestly this guy sounds like he is a right arse (and yes you can quote me on that - sue me in the UK why don't you and see how far you get!)

[SirPeale]

Please post said letter here.  I've done a lot of legal research, as have others on the board.  Then we can see how much bunk this is.

[jer2665]

god i'm sick of these guys.

[IntruderAlert]

All of the links and info regarding the MAME trademark and use thereof are on the MAME Dev's web site here:

http://mamedev.com/trademark.html

MAME

[Hoopz]

To read an article on a related topic, this this one:

http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/printthread.php?t=20373

Its about a college student who sold MSFT products on Ebay.

[Tiger-Heli]

Unfair competition! Good grief. So they must think you are the Microsoft of the Arcade Cabinet world then.

Actually, I think it's more like Ultracade thinks they are the Microsoft of the Arcade Cabinet World.

Regarding the previous example, it's more like Dell trying to get Gateway to quit selling PC's b/c it's unfair competition. (or vice versa).

[Fat_Trucker]

De.....Ja.......Vue.

Perhaps you should contact MAME dev or Nicola directly. If you are packaging legitimately licenced roms then I can't really see any issue for you.

Sounds like Ultracade are trying a shakedown.

I wonder if they've contacted all the artists and printshops again like they did last time?.

[dema]

While I'm not a lawyer, I don't think they have a legal case when it comes to enforcing a cease and desist letter. You are simply providing an assembled structure within which people can house PCs, video game consoles, or arcade parts from older machines. I'm guessing if you were to stop offering the games with the cabinets they wouldn't have a leg to stand on -- that could be the only issue where it becomes hazy legally (depending on whether you aquired the rights to distribute them), but even that is nonsense.

Screw Ultracade. If their product was any good they wouldn't have to try stifling the competition. They can't stop people from building arcades, and you're selling a prebuilt arcade. For this to have any merit they'd then have to sue arcade part distributors to keep things out of the public's hands. This whole thing is nonsense.

[Stingray]

Clearly Mr. Ultracade didn't learn a lesson the last time he fired off a round of S&D letters. This guy is a world class anus.

-S

[dema]

Looks like it's time to head over to their forums...

http://www.ultracade.com/forums/


Let's see how long before they take our comments offline.

[Sasquatch!]

All of the links and info regarding the MAME trademark and use thereof are on the MAME Dev's web site here:

http://mamedev.com/trademark.html

So wait a minute, if they abandoned their attempts to trademark MAME, what the hell are their grounds?  How is DreamArcades "unfair"?

(Grrr, what a bunch of a-holes.)

[SirPeale]

Everyone calm down.  We won't know anything until we can actually READ the C&D for ourselves.

[IntruderAlert]

Looks like it's time to head over to their forums...

http://www.ultracade.com/forums/


Let's see how long before they take our comments offline.

WOW!!! Those forums are just TEAMING with activity!!!

[SirPoonga]

While I'm not a lawyer, I don't think they have a legal case when it comes to enforcing a cease and desist letter. You are simply providing an assembled structure within which people can house PCs, video game consoles, or arcade parts from older machines. I'm guessing if you were to stop offering the games with the cabinets they wouldn't have a leg to stand on -- that could be the only issue where it becomes hazy legally (depending on whether you aquired the rights to distribute them), but even that is nonsense.

But the games dreamarcades is selling are legal.  Starroms are legal.  So are PC remakes.

I'd definately say you have to get a lawyer.  But Ultracade shouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Did Ultracade cease and desist Hanaho?  Hanaho has a couple of PC based cabinets.

[Crazy Cooter]

WOW!!! Those forums are just TEAMING with activity!!!

LOL.  Everyone I read was some kind of gripe with a fairly rude response by Foley.

Until I see the C&D letter, there's not too much to comment on.  BUT... Foley can't enforce anything that isn't his.

[SirPoonga]

It also states that I need to stop selling all products utilizing MAME

Like Peale said, we'd have to look at the letter,t hough you may want a lawyer to look at it first.

Is Mr Ultracade the MAME police?

[Goz]

Clearly Mr. Ultracade didn't learn a lesson the last time he fired off a round of S&D letters. This guy is a world class anus.

-S

Yeah I was thinking Mr. Foley stinks... Anus is likely the best description.

It would seem to me with his skewed perspective that anyone that has actually released a arcade pack like Revenge of Arcade (Microsoft) would be the unfair compentition.  Maybe if the deuchebag sold empty cabs then it'd be an apple to apples comparison. Different product, different target sales, etc.

-Goz

[Chris]

The problems you're going to run into are the software and the art.  Neither MAME or WinCab Jukebox are licensed for commercial use (I've turned down all of the requests I've gotten to include it in cabinets; I didn't realize you were including it in yours).  If you can get a resale license from StarROMs and MAME, though, Foley won't have a leg to stand on.  I'm pretty sure you don't have a license to use the Nintendo characters in your coctail sideart, since Nintendo is so anti-emulation.  The MAME logo is now trademarked by the MAME team and you'll need to get permission for that as well.  This is the crux of Foley's argument for unfair competition: he's had to pay royalties and license fees, and you're using these art assets and software without paying for the same licenses and royalties.

Also, as far as the games go, you seem to encourage users to download illegal ROMs in your FAQ.  Before any lawyers get involved, you may want to change the language to only point people toward StarROMs for their additional ROM needs.

If you do get an attorney, you're going to need to make sure you're clean on these issues so Foley can't use them against you.

Note that I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

--Chris

[RayB]

Ignore it for now. But you should still "get your ducks in a row", so to speak.

[Veinman]

Agreed, you may want to consult a lawyer just to put your mind at ease, but threatening letters are simply that- letters. Official court documents are documents with which to be reckoned.

[SirPoonga]

Chris is right.

[Billkwando]

The MAME logo is now trademarked by the MAME team and you'll need to get permission for that as well.  This is the crux of Foley's argument for unfair competition: he's had to pay royalties and license fees, and you're using these art assets and software without paying for the same licenses and royalties.

If that's the case, shouldn't this letter come from the MAME team and not UltraCrude?

You really should post this over @ mame.net

[SirPoonga]

The MAME logo is now trademarked by the MAME team and you'll need to get permission for that as well.

[jdjuggler]

This sounds like Foley's familiar attack all over again.
I agree that DreamArcades needs to remove any notion of illegal ROM downloading and remove any copyrighted logos.

[Chris]

The MAME logo is now trademarked by the MAME team and you'll need to get permission for that as well.

[dema]

Chris is right.

[whammoed]

it's the StarROMs ROMS (which are non-transferable, and thus cannot be sold with a machine),

They are non-transferable but I believe sellers may buy and register them in their customers name.

[DreamArcades]

Chris,
I'll e-mail you offline about WinCab. I thought I had read the licensing and all it said was WinCab is freeware. I probably just missed something.
Anyway, I don't want to cause you any trouble.
-Mike

[Crazy Cooter]

Actually, no.

[DreamArcades]

it's the StarROMs ROMS (which are non-transferable, and thus cannot be sold with a machine),

They are non-transferable but I believe sellers may buy and register them in their customers name.

[Flinkly]

hah...i went over to the forums to see if any of you guy's had started any trouble, and i noticed that the most activity that his forum has had was today with 12 users at once...buisness must be booming.

[Chris]

Yes you are correct. DA's even has a contract with StarRoms that specifies how we can and cannot do this.

Then you're past the hardest part.  Cleaning up the art to remove Nintendo and Namco characters is a must, though; these two companies are very litigous, and one letter from Foley will be enough to get their lawyers to do his dirty work for him.  There are many talented individuals here who may be able to provide you with non-infringing art for a nominal fee (or more likely a product sample ).

--Chris

[dema]

I think it'd be a riot if we started a project announcement thread there where we photoshop their cabinets with subtle adjustments and then claim we built them from scratch and got the roms online.

[jdjuggler]

Flinkly quote:
 "hah...i went over to the forums to see if any of you guy's had started any trouble, and i noticed that the most activity that his forum has had was today with 12 users at once...buisness must be booming. "

I just went there and the latest registered user was UltraCrap2.

Nice!