MAMEDev's pull auctions without MAME

[DreamArcades]

Yesterday I went through all of my auctions and removed the term MAME(tm) My wife then went through and removed a couple that I missed. I didn

[Chris]

Can you find out from eBay if these were MAMEDev pulls or Foley pulls?

[monkeybomb]

Can you find out from eBay if these were MAMEDev pulls or Foley pulls?

Yeah this need to be made very clear.  If you had a jamma harness pulled without the word MAME, that just doesn't make any sense at all.  Can you be specific as to what happened.

[DreamArcades]

My point isn't to blame the MAMEdev's I hope they'll fix this. I just want to see if this happened to anyone else. You can see that the titles don't contain the term MAME, but the auctions aren't avalible.


Sent: Fri 6/3/2005 7:08 AM
------
Dear Mike Ware (support@dreamarcades.com),

**PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)**

We would like to let you know that we removed your listing:

 
6183881427 New Black Textured T-Molding 3/4" X 25'  Arcade
6183687846 Arcade Ball-Top Joysticks Buttons, JAMMA, Pacman



because the trademark rights owner notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your listing misuses their brand name or trademark.

We have credited any associated fees to your account.  We have also notified the bidders that the listing was removed, and that they are not obligated to complete the transaction.

If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely will be suspended.

If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding the removal of this listing, please contact the rights owner directly at:

Nicola XXXXXXXXXX
XXX@mamedev.com

eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the rights owner that requested the removal of your listings, we encourage you to contact them first.

For more information on the VeRO Program, and a list of rights owner About Me pages, please visit:

 http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html
 http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html

Thank you for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

_{<edited to remove personal info>}

[Chris]

 

[DreamArcades]

I just got an e-mail from Aaron. He say's there was a hick-up in the system last night and a bunch of auctions were pulled today, from yesterday. So, even though I had updated them they were still pulled.
He's contacted eBay and Say's he'll let me know how they are going to fix this.
 

If anyone else had this happen to them send an e-mail to the contact address lsited in your e-mai lfrom eBay.

[Dire Radiant]

I must say you're taking this a lot better than I would be. Adversely effecting a reputable businessman's livelihood and reputation, without any grounds to do so, no matter how unintentionally, is not a "hiccup" it's an abuse of ebay policy and an abuse of the rights (if any) granted to them by the trademark application.

[SirPoonga]

I must say you're taking this a lot better than I would be. Adversely effecting a reputable businessman's livelihood and reputation, without any grounds to do so, no matter how unintentionally, is not a "hiccup" it's an abuse of ebay policy and an abuse of the rights (if any) granted to them by the trademark application.

No, it's a hiccup
At the time the auctions were put on the queue they were abusing the mame trademark as layouted.  But then DA changed them before those auctions went through the queue.  They got deleted.  DA complained, he is doing it the right way too by contacting the appropiate people.  It was realized as a mistake and looks like it is going to try and be resolved.

Ebay gets tons of this stuff, you don;t think they are going to put something int he wqueue to be deleted then have a real live person double check the auction just before it gets deleted?  That would cost way too much.

Timing of stuff can produce problems.  At least it is being handled.

[Dire Radiant]

Ah ok. It wasn't clear to me from the original post that these auctions had originally been posted containing MAME references. My apologies.

[DreamArcades]

I just want to make it clear we were not abusing the MAME trademark we had sent several e-mail asking how to property use it. Unfortunately we didn't get a reply for several weeks (just after a bunch of auctions were pulled).
As soon as the new rules were announced we changed our auctions within the hour.

I must say you're taking this a lot better than I would be. Adversely effecting a reputable businessman's livelihood and reputation, without any grounds to do so, no matter how unintentionally, is not a "hiccup" it's an abuse of ebay policy and an abuse of the rights (if any) granted to them by the trademark application.

No, it's a hiccup
At the time the auctions were put on the queue they were abusing the mame trademark as layouted.  But then DA changed them before those auctions went through the queue.  They got deleted.  DA complained, he is doing it the right way too by contacting the appropiate people.  It was realized as a mistake and looks like it is going to try and be resolved.

Ebay gets tons of this stuff, you don;t think they are going to put something int he wqueue to be deleted then have a real live person double check the auction just before it gets deleted?  That would cost way too much.

Timing of stuff can produce problems.  At least it is being handled.

[Zakk]

So you couldn't use the word MAME when selling T-molding (for example), which could be used for a Mame cab?  Pffft, seems a little harsh.  Thanks again Foley for making all this possible.  So it looks like he is accomplishing his goal of making Mame harder to find.

[Raven..]

And in the end it will drive the price UP.  The harder something in demand is to get, the more people will pay for it when they can find it.  I'm not advocating selling MAME systems, but making them less accessable will improve the market for the people who do.  Of course the market will be harder to reach without eBay, but there are other places to sell things.   

[Quarters]

So you couldn't use the word MAME when selling T-molding (for example), which could be used for a Mame cab? Pffft, seems a little harsh. Thanks again Foley for making all this possible. So it looks like he is accomplishing his goal of making Mame harder to find.

Yep. t-molding, act-lab guns, push buttons... all have been VeROed. 

[Tiger-Heli]

So you couldn't use the word MAME when selling T-molding (for example), which could be used for a Mame cab?  Pffft, seems a little harsh.  Thanks again Foley for making all this possible.  So it looks like he is accomplishing his goal of making Mame harder to find.

See the other related thread, you can't say "MAME T-molding" in the title.

You can (once it the ad) say T-molding "suitable for an arcade cabinet running MAME(tm)"

And in the end it will drive the price UP.  The harder something in demand is to get, the more people will pay for it when they can find it.  I'm not advocating selling MAME systems, but making them less accessable will improve the market for the people who do.  Of course the market will be harder to reach without eBay, but there are other places to sell things.

Not necessarily - Star Wars Yokes are around $120-150 on E-bay now, but if the seller mislabels it as "Atari Yoke Control", a similar item may sell for around $25-30.  What it means is that casual users will not find items and enthusiasts will need to search more creatively (search Title AND Description.)

[Setabs]

Im sorry anyone using the search term mame to find t-molding is probably going to have an ugly cabinet.

[monkeybomb]

Im sorry anyone using the search term mame to find t-molding is probably going to have an ugly cabinet.

My cabinet is quite nice and I used MAME as a search.  Since all the vendors did it, it was convinent.  They could change to EMU now or one of the other suggestions.  Once it catches on it won't be a big deal.

[NoOne=NBA=]

if the seller mislabels it as "Atari Yoke Control", a similar item may sell for around $25-30.

Even better is when it goes up as an "Atari Yolk".

[VMJ Team]

Well, for those defending what the mamedev team is doing...I didn't even want to mess around with their rediculous demands...they obviously didn't have their legal team write that stuff...

So I removed every instance of "mame" or "m.a.m.e." from my auctions.  It was there in the context of...supports xbox, mame, playstation, etc...keep in mind that I sell "empty" game cabinet kits.

Anyways, removed all instances of "mame" and replaced it with PC Emulators, and relisted my items.  Those where just pulled and my ebay account suspended.

I have sent an email to the address listed on the ebay vero form without a response.

Considering that "MAME" was not used anywhere in my items and there were still pulled...considering they were relisted after this thread was started...is it really a hick-up or did they just get caught going to far?  A hick-up would mean that there is a problem and it should have been corrected by now...since I have not received a response, I'm assuming that they know what they are doing.

So for anyone to say this is "just" or "fair"...open your eyes!

[paigeoliver]

Well, for those defending what the mamedev team is doing...I didn't even want to mess around with their rediculous demands...they obviously didn't have their legal team write that stuff...

So I removed every instance of "mame" or "m.a.m.e." from my auctions.  It was there in the context of...supports xbox, mame, playstation, etc...keep in mind that I sell "empty" game cabinet kits.

Anyways, removed all instances of "mame" and replaced it with PC Emulators, and relisted my items.  Those where just pulled and my ebay account suspended.

I have sent an email to the address listed on the ebay vero form without a response.

Considering that "MAME" was not used anywhere in my items and there were still pulled...considering they were relisted after this thread was started...is it really a hick-up or did they just get caught going to far?  A hick-up would mean that there is a problem and it should have been corrected by now...since I have not received a response, I'm assuming that they know what they are doing.

So for anyone to say this is "just" or "fair"...open your eyes!

Technically you might have a better claim to the Mame trademark than they do. After all you (via the Mameroom name) have actually been using it in commerce. 

[paigeoliver]

Also apparently xgaming.com's ebay auctions are immune to the rules, because apparently they can still spam "Mame" all over their titles.

[VMJ Team]

That's why I'm wondering if Foley is still involved...me and that (I'll behave)...exchanged a few worded emails.

[Chris]

I also work for an international lawfirm.

[ChadTower]

I don't think you guys are looking far enough into what is going on here.  They're not just pulling MAME roms and MAME itself, they're pulling anything that could be used to build a "MAME cab".  That seems, at this point, to even include some legitimate products.

Now think this through.  Why would they pull any product designed for use in a MAME cab? 

[VMJ Team]

I (and many other's) don't care what these guys have coming down the pipe.  I was just informed that by them pulling legitimate auction items on a the "mame" trademark could be argued as a violation of any trademarks owned by the seller. 

That is:
#1, their actions initiated and resulted in these items being pulled.
#2, they specifically mentioned their "mame" trademark in a correspondence that resulted in legitimate items being pulled.

[VMJ Team]

The person reviewing this wanted to know when "mame" was first used in "commerce" by the mamedevs...anyone have any insight on this?

[Chris]

The person reviewing this wanted to know when "mame" was first used in "commerce" by the mamedevs...anyone have any insight on this?

I knew this would come up.

The question is whether or not they got compensated for the Hanaho deal in actual dollars (not exchange of goods).  If so, it's that date.  If not, to the best of my knowledge it has not been used in commerce yet.

[Lilwolf]

I don't believe it would just be that.  Remember the guy who tried getting the trademark for Linux.... That lasted long and he could only trademark mud after that.  He was slammed.

Think of Foley who is now at the Tim Eckels in ranking in the community.

[Lilwolf]

BTW, that sucks that they dropped your ebay account...  Is there even a vague possibility that it was MAME then changed (the queue problem before)?  It didn't sound like it.

Hopefully they can take care of this ASAP.

[RayB]

Regardless of what we think of Foley, the fact is we do not know what "deal" was struck with the MAME devs. It could very well be that they (MAME devs) struck a bad deal. (They might have quickly bent over out of fear, or stupidity... who knows). They might not have even paid for any legal counsel for all we know! From the looks of it, MAME devs are just following Foley's very same actions. So it's possible Foley is still calling the shots.

[Shape D.]

Or maybe its the fact he's selling things under the name Mameroom.com

So did you come up with the name for your site before MAME was around? and Have you asked them for permission to use the name mameroom? Sounds to me like you are using their name for your own good, and using thier reputation to make money. Thus leaving you with no room to complain.

[quarterback]

Or maybe its the fact he's selling things under the name Mameroom.com

That's exactly what I was wondering.   Was the term "mameroom" mentioned anywhere in your auctions?

[KenToad]

Or maybe its the fact he's selling things under the name Mameroom.com

So did you come up with the name for your site before MAME was around? and Have you asked them for permission to use the name mameroom? Sounds to me like you are using their name for your own good, and using thier reputation to make money. Thus leaving you with no room to complain.

I'm pretty sure Mameroom was coined before MAME was trademarked.  Also, it's a variation on the name.  Are variations protected, i.e. treated as different names?  Remember that no software is being sold here.

Cheers,
KenToad

[VMJ Team]

I don't believe it would just be that

There is more than that.  The FACT that Mameroom Designs LLC has been registered with the US government BEFORE "mame" was used commercially could prove futile for the mamedev trademark.  They did not trademark M.A.M.E. or "Multiple arcade machine emulator" like they should have...they trademarked a desriptive name taken from "Mameroom", which is a derivative of "Gameroom".  The mamedevs shouldn't put their foot down too hard, they may be stepping on a tack.

BTW.  M.A.M.E. is still up for grabs.  "Many Animals Mate Everyday" or something like that.  Don't have the time, energy, or initiative to play dirty like that...but I'm sure someone has nothing else to do.

If anyone has any specific questions about this, I have someone qualified to answer them working on this.

[KenToad]

Personally, it looks like the Mamedevs have screwed up royally.  I hope they get back to you soon, CyberPunk.

Cheers,
KenToad

[quarterback]

If anyone has any specific questions about this, I have someone qualified to answer them working on this.

So, was the word "mameroom" anywhere in your auctions?

[Shape D.]

The FACT that Mameroom Designs LLC has been registered with the US government BEFORE "mame" was used commercially

So what you're saying is you did use the name they came up with and are now complaining because they want to restrict its use.

[KenToad]

The FACT that Mameroom Designs LLC has been registered with the US government BEFORE "mame" was used commercially

So what you're saying is you did use the name they came up with and are now complaining because they want to restrict its use.

If they didn't want anyone using variations on their name, then they should have stated that from the beginning.  Mameroom hasn't exactly been hiding in the closet.  Also, they are respected members of the community, so MAMEdev should have contacted Cyberpunk personally if this is really the issue.

Cheers,
KenToad

[Chris]

The FACT that Mameroom Designs LLC has been registered with the US government BEFORE "mame" was used commercially

So what you're saying is you did use the name they came up with and are now complaining because they want to restrict its use.

He's also saying that they registered it and used in commerce before MAME did.

[VMJ Team]

If this all goes down the way it's looking like it might.

1st. Mameroom Designs LLC is a business name, while it does not have the protection of a "Trademark", it is a registered business name that has been collecting and paying state and government taxes for the past 3 years.

2nd. Mamedev must prove in court, that Mameroom is more a derivative of "mame" than "Gameroom".

[Chris]

5th.