My Tee Nuts don't hold well. :(

[quarterback]

In my perpetual CP cycle of cut->test->alter, I decided to get some t-nuts so I could lose the carraige-bolt-heads off the top of my CP (in preparation for the time when I actually have a CPO instead of my current marble-patterened-shelf paper)

So, I stopped at Lowes, found the T-nuts that would fit but only bought two (with the barbs), since they're like 50-cents a piece!

And now I'm glad I only bought two.   I hammered them into the bottom of my cp, but they're really dicey.  I feel like any sigificant pressure down on the joystick will result in them popping right out.   Admittedly, I'm using crappy junk-pile wood, but now I'm not convinced that they'd hold in any kind of wood.  The barbs don't seem like they're a very secure solution.

I know they make t-nuts with holes in them which, I assume, are so you can thread tiny screws or nails to hold them in the wood.  Are those what people are using or is there some trick to t-nut use that makes them workable.

Oh, and where can I get them for less than 2 for a dollar.  I know it's not a HUGE amount of money, but I really don't want to spend $10+ on freakin T-nuts.
Thanks

[Tiger-Heli]

Heh, I did the same thing, ONCE!!!

The flat part of the T-nut is supposed to go on TOP of the panel so the screw tension pulls them down and holds the joystick tight.

See how OSCAR did it: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/index.shtml

[quarterback]

Heh, I did the same thing, ONCE!!!

The flat part of the T-nut is supposed to go on TOP of the panel so the screw tension pulls them down and holds the joystick tight.

I thought about that, but the T-nuts (that I have) don't allow "pass through".

[Tiger-Heli]

I thought about that, but the T-nuts (that I have) don't allow "pass through".  In other words, You can only screw the bolts into it from the "front" (flat part) and then they stop when the end of the bold hits the "back" (the end of the 'tip')

Odd, they should, maybe you need to really force the screws to get them through (or return them).  Odd.

On price, I don't remember what size I got, but they might have been cheaper.  They probably also have them in boxes of 50 and the boxes of 50 might be less than 5 little bags of 2 each, if you know what I mean.

But yeah, that makes much more sense.  Maybe I need to take a hacksaw to the tip of my T-nuts (Ouch!)

Or a Dremel - but I'm always finding excuses to use the Dremel even if it's not the appropriate tool.

Thanks TH

No problem.  Like I said, I did the same thing (not an arcade project).  Had them all done, watched them fall out, and THEN looked at OSCAR's page again.  (If all else fails, read the instructions).

[Flinkly]

the thread about the happs 49way template shows the bottom of a blitz arcade control panel (straight from the factory) and has the t-nuts done in from the bottom, like yours forces you to.  it seems to have worked for them, but i personally will to it from the top if i can.

[FractalWalk]

[quarterback]

If you can't thread it in that way then either you didn't buy T-nuts or your threads are messed up. Most likely applying a little pressure and forcing the screw in will clean the threads up unless they are really damaged.

Below is a pic.  They're definitely T-nuts.  Neither one will either thread all the way through or thread in the direction you suggest.   I'll try forcing a bolt through or, if that doesn't work, I'll hack off the end.

[quarterback]

Here's another pic showing my attempt to thread the bolt in as suggested.  You can see from the pic that I can get it to catch one side of one single thread but that's it.

[Shape D.]

do you have the right threading on the bolt? Thats how they are supposed to work.

[quarterback]

do you have the right threading on the bolt? Thats how they are supposed to work.

Yeah, they're both 10-24 and it threads fine going the other direction (until it gets to the end).

Since my last post I've actually managed to force it all the way through (going the wrong direction) but I still can't get it going in the other way.    I'm going to head out and see if I can find some cheaper anyway.  If I'm unsuccessful, I think I'll be able to file a little off the ends of these to get them to work.  Maybe they're just poorly made and have extra crap at the ends.

[Franco]

Drill a pilot hole 0.5 - 1.00 mm or so smaller than the O/D of the t-nut shaft, countersink it slightly and hammer them in for an interference fit.

I used this method and mine have taken some severe punishment n havent even shown a sign of moving.

Heh, I did the same thing, ONCE!!!

The flat part of the T-nut is supposed to go on TOP of the panel so the screw tension pulls them down and holds the joystick tight.

See how OSCAR did it: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar/index.shtml

BTW, mine are mounted from the underside of the CP and Ive had no problems but them again they are pass through nuts. I got mine from B&Q in the UK so I cant help  you out stockist wise.

[markrvp]

the thread about the happs 49way template shows the bottom of a blitz arcade control panel (straight from the factory) and has the t-nuts done in from the bottom, like yours forces you to.

[Franco]

[Flinkly]

ah...i guess i didn't understand the picture.  i guess i should have noticed from the placement of the dust washer.

[markrvp]

[nostrebor]

*golf commentator voice*

Commentator #1: "We see Markvp Franco step up to the tee. He plays with the lightest touch of all the pros out here"

Commentator #2: " He has to Bob. He plays with his T-nuts on backwards."

Commentator #1 "Well, that explains it then."


(Edit: Had the wrong MAME pro in the commentary.)

[markrvp]

*golf commentator voice*

Commentator #1: "We see Markvp step up to the tee. He plays with the lightest touch of all the pros out here"

Commentator #2: " He has to Bob. He plays with his T-nuts on backwards."

Commentator #1 "Well, that explains it then."

 

[Franco]

[Tiger-Heli]

*golf commentator voice*

Commentator #1: "We see Markvp step up to the tee. He plays with the lightest touch of all the pros out here"

Commentator #2: " He has to Bob. He plays with his T-nuts on backwards."

Commentator #1 "Well, that explains it then."

ROFLMAO! (But Franco was the one with them backwards).

[nostrebor]

In all seriousness,

If you are installing them from the top and you do not want a bump in your overlay, you have to recess them first. I use a forstner bit, the same diameter as the flange on the t-nut. Drill the recess first just deep enough to make the flange flush. Then drill the hole thru the CP. Put the t-nut in, screw in a bolt and seat it. If done correctly, the CPO should be smooth as silk.

Of course all this is exponentionally easier with a drill press, but if you are patient, you can hand drill thes with good results.

[markrvp]

Like this?

[markrvp]

[Franco]

marcrvp
I'm just giving you a hard time.

Thanks!
 

[IntruderAlert]

Do it the MIDWAY way
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35820.msg316784.html#msg316784

[markrvp]

Quarterback:

Back to your original question about what T-nuts to get - here is what I recommend.

[Tiger-Heli]

In all seriousness,

If you are installing them from the top and you do not want a bump in your overlay, you have to recess them first. I use a forstner bit, the same diameter as the flange on the t-nut. Drill the recess first just deep enough to make the flange flush. Then drill the hole thru the CP. Put the t-nut in, screw in a bolt and seat it. If done correctly, the CPO should be smooth as silk.

Of course all this is exponentionally easier with a drill press, but if you are patient, you can hand drill thes with good results.

Or, if you don't have a forstner bit, you can recess them with a dremel.  (Doesn't have to be pretty on the bottom.).  Now if you are REALLY concerned about not seeing them under your overlay, cover the T-nuts with Plastic  Wood or Spackling compound and sand smooth.  (Just be careful for the threads).

[IntruderAlert]

yeah.. if you check that link above you'll see that they are recessed on the midway CP

[RandyT]

The best solution is to not use "T-nuts" at all in this application.

IMHO, they are the wrong part for the job.

What you want are "Threaded Inserts".  These can be installed from the bottom so no ugly stuff on top.  The force required to knock these loose would sooner break your stick, making ithat concern pretty much moot.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

The best solution is to not use "T-nuts" at all in this application.
IMHO, they are the wrong part for the job.
What you want are "Threaded Inserts".  These can be installed from the bottom so no ugly stuff on top.  The force required to knock these loose would sooner break your stick, making ithat concern pretty much moot.
RandyT

Linky to what RandyT is referring to:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,5195.msg34250.html#msg34250


Edit by moderator: linked directly to the post in question

[IntruderAlert]

oh.. i like those
sort of like EZ Anchors

[Franco]

I agree with Randy. Insert nuts are far the best method for this type of application. I couldn't even get carriage bolts with a head less then 1/2" over here (UK). I managed to find some insert nuts from a UK seller but they only sold them in bags of 500 (I only wanted 16!!)
I suppose I could of ordered some carriage bolts from Bob Roberts but I was eager to get on with my CP at the time of my build (patience had never been my virtue).
It all depends on what you can either get locally, internationally and what you can wait for and/or are prepared to pay. I had to make do with what I could get at the time (T-nuts) but I made sure they would serve their purpose and they have worked so well that I would deff use the same method again.

[IntruderAlert]

Maybe Randy will consider including 4 Threaded Inserts with each joystick you buy from him?
or an "install kit" when you buy the stick and interface

[markrvp]

The best solution is to not use "T-nuts" at all in this application.

IMHO, they are the wrong part for the job.

What you want are "Threaded Inserts".

[IntruderAlert]

I've been looking around for these inserts
is it the same as a HeliCoil Thread Insert?

[markrvp]

If these are the HeliCoil inserts you are looking at, http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.html those are way too complicated.  They require you to drill AND THEN TAP the hole.  I've gotta think they are expensive (with getting the TAP).

Take a look at this page for connectors & inserts:

http://rowecraft.com/hardinserts.php

[Lilwolf]

btw, I put my tnuts on the bottom of one control panel... used one size too small on the drill bit... And its been there for 1/2 a year!

but...

I...

forgot to put wood filler on the top before I put the vynal down... so now I have 4 bubbles around each joystick

But the top is really where its suppost to go... I just didn't know better when I first used them... and their staying in... waiting for them to break so I can rebuild them.

[Granger]

Maby i'm missing something, but why not use plain old #10 wood screws ?

[markrvp]

Maby i'm missing something, but why not use plain old #10 wood screws ?

You can.  There is some concern that rough gameplay might cause them to give way.

[RandyT]

Maby i'm missing something, but why not use plain old #10 wood screws ?

Screws hold via friction and the fact that the threads undercut the material.  Threaded inserts do both of these better as there is more surface area for better friction, and the blades are larger to cut deeper into the material.

The nice thing about the inserts is that they allow for easy upgrading or testing of different controls.  A few times in and out with the wood screws and you'll tear up the wood enough so that it no longer holds well.  This won't happen with the inserts as you never remove them, just the machine screws you screw into them.

RandyT

[Granger]

I have just recently been installing the sticks in my cp, and after readig this thread, ordered some insert nuts. the only ones found were either for a 1/4 machine screws (or bigger), wich is lager than predrilled holes in the stick, or for #8 machine screws. I ordered the smaller size and found them almost impossible to drive in straight, and they only had about three threads  cutting into the wood. the ones I installed pulled out fairly easily, so I then replaced them with inserts for 1/4 inch and used wood screws on the rest. The larger inserts do seem to hold very well, but the smaller ones don't come anywhere near the holding streangth of a normal screw.