Attaching joysticks on MDF

[TheManuel]

I'm building a new control panel (if you can call the old one that) and I'm using MDF.
I'm about to attach the joystics and I'm wondering if I can just screw them to the MDF directly or if I should should line the holes first with some expansion or anything else.
I'm just concerned that the wholes give way over time but if if has worked for some of you, the I'll do it the easy way.

Thanks in advance.

[rampy]

I'm building a new control panel (if you can call the old one that) and I'm using MDF.
I'm about to attach the joystics and I'm wondering if I can just screw them to the MDF directly or if I should should line the holes first with some expansion or anything else.
I'm just concerned that the wholes give way over time but if if has worked for some of you, the I'll do it the easy way.

Thanks in advance.

There are several ways to do it, but I would NOT recommend using wood screws into MDF to hold down/up your joystick.   Some would argue that it works pretty good with plywood (and it probably does)

Convention is to drill holes all the way through and slide a carriage bolt from the top of the MDF surface, through the wood, through the joystick base and then use a nut to secure it from below.  Spend some time in the example pages as there's some good writeups/pictures of how it works.

You could also route out and use t-nuts if you didn't want the carriage bolts to show from the top of your control panel, but that might be too much too chew on if you're a newb to woodworking...

Rampy

[TheManuel]

Thanks for the advice.

While I don't own a router, I figure I could just countersink the head of the bolt using a large drill bit (slightly greater diameter than the head of the bolt).
I'll probably have a sheet of acrylic on top of the whole thing with artwork in between, so the bolt heads would be hidden from site.

This is definitely much better than using wood screws.

[RandyT]

Good advice!  

Another option is a "threaded insert nut".

These go in pretty easily.  You just drill a hole of the recommended size and screw in the insert nut typically using a hex wrench.  The wide threads bite into the MDF and keep these from pulling out.  Then just screw in the bolts.  

Make sure you use short bolts and don't drill all the way through the material.

RandyT

[TheManuel]

Good advice!  

Another option is a "threaded insert nut".

These go in pretty easily.  You just drill a hole of the recommended size and screw in the insert nut typically using a hex wrench.  The wide threads bite into the MDF and keep these from pulling out.  Then just screw in the bolts.  

Make sure you use short bolts and don't drill all the way through the material.

RandyT

Sounds pretty neat and clean.
I'll check on those too.
Thanks for the advice.

[atog]

I built my control panel out of MDF, boy do I wish I could go back and replace that with plywood.  Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

I screwed directly into the mdf from the bottom.  It looked nice and clean from the top, and continuously broke out and the joysticks would fall through all of the time.  I tried bigger screws, wood glue, etc.  Finally I got sick of repairing the stupid thing so I drilled holes all the way through the lexan top, stuck 4 bolts all the way through from the top, bolted them from the botton and have never had a problem since.  No it's not as clean of a look but it is now secure.

[TheManuel]

I built my control panel out of MDF, boy do I wish I could go back and replace that with plywood.  Oh well, hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

I screwed directly into the mdf from the bottom.  It looked nice and clean from the top, and continuously broke out and the joysticks would fall through all of the time.  I tried bigger screws, wood glue, etc.  Finally I got sick of repairing the stupid thing so I drilled holes all the way through the lexan top, stuck 4 bolts all the way through from the top, bolted them from the botton and have never had a problem since.  No it's not as clean of a look but it is now secure.

That's the kind of thing I was fearing.
Thank you for sharing that experience so I don't make the same mistake.
I used that same method for my current/old panel and it never failed on a year of use (that's a lot of 1/4 and 1/2 circles and double-taps on Samurai Shodown II) but the material was different.  It was particle board from a scrapped ET center.
I know MDF is not as robust so I wanted to check with others first since I want this panel to last even longer.

It looks like the counter-sunk bolts with nuts at the bottom will be the best method.

[RandyT]

I just want to make sure that something is fully explained here.

Screwing into MDF from the bottom with wood screws and using properly installed insert nuts are not one in the same.  Like anything, it boils down to having the right parts/tools for the job.

The force required to pull 4 of those from the MDF would break your joystick many, many times over.

RandyT

[atog]

right but it's not the bolts or the joystick that is breaking, it's the mdf itself, crumbling like blue cheese.

[BobA]

Depending on the joystick you are using you may still require a router to allow the joystick to have the proper control height.  Most commercial control setups that are built with MDF route out at least 1/4 inch and probably more so that the joystick shaft will stick out the right height above the control surface.  This depends on the type of joystick you are using.    Try mounting your joystick in a piece of scrap MDF to see if the control meets your requirements.  The routing out of material under the panel does not seem to weaken the MDF in any way and the 4 carriage bolts hold the joystick very secure.

BobA

[TheManuel]

Depending on the joystick you are using you may still require a router to allow the joystick to have the proper control height.  Most commercial control setups that are built with MDF route out at least 1/4 inch and probably more so that the joystick shaft will stick out the right height above the control surface.  This depends on the type of joystick you are using.    Try mounting your joystick in a piece of scrap MDF to see if the control meets your requirements.  The routing out of material under the panel does not seem to weaken the MDF in any way and the 4 carriage bolts hold the joystick very secure.

BobA

I'm using competition joysticks and on my previous control panel (also 3/4" thick) they seem to protrude an adequate height from the panel's surface.
However, you reminded me that I will probably use plexiglass and that would undermine that height even further.  I'll consider using some other thin plastic film of sorts (short of actually routing).

Thanks

[rampy]

right but it's not the bolts or the joystick that is breaking, it's the mdf itself, crumbling like blue cheese.

if you used woodscrews from underneath with MDF, that's what'll happen... if you use woodscrews with plywood underneath supposedly it'll hold.

If you use carriage bolts from the top with either with a reasonable thickness it'll hold fine (assuming reasonable drilled holes/etc)

*shrug*

rampy

[RandyT]

right but it's not the bolts or the joystick that is breaking, it's the mdf itself, crumbling like blue cheese.

I think you might be confusing MDF with particle board.  I make commercial assemblies out of MDF and have never seen it "crumble".  


RandyT

[eightbit]

MDF does not hold screws well. The screws have a tendency to pull out. There are no wood fibers holding the sawdust, that MDF is made of, together just glue.

[cdbrown]

RandyT,

Do you have a pic or link of these"threaded insert nuts" I have never heard of them.

Others,

If you route the underside of the panel, then countersink the head of the bolt, is the remaining thinkness sufficient?  Or is it fine due to the surface area of the bolt head.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[eightbit]

Do you have a pic or link of these"threaded insert nuts" I have never heard of them.

If you route the underside of the panel, then countersink the head of the bolt, is the remaining thinkness sufficient?  Or is it fine due to the surface area of the bolt head.

Picture of T-nuts-


Whether or not a routed panel is thick enough depends on how much you route it and how much you counter sink the bolt. I would say if you could get 3/8"s after routing and counter sinking you would have plenty of thickness.

[RandyT]

RandyT,

Do you have a pic or link of these"threaded insert nuts" I have never heard of them.

They look like this:




4 of these in a piece of MDF will hang a bowling ball.  Like I said, you'd break the joystick before you managed to pull it out of the MDF with 4 of these installed.

RandyT

[slug54]

If you route the underside of the panel, then countersink the head of the bolt, is the remaining thinkness sufficient?  Or is it fine due to the surface area of the bolt head.

Cheers
-cdbrown

I was concerned with not having enough mdf material to screw the sticks to after routing. So what I did was cut 2 small plywood pieces for each stick , bolted the joystick to
the plywood with a flathead bolt. and then screwed the plywood pieces into the underside of the C-panel using 3
wood screws in each plywood piece ,6 screws per stick total. the wood screws go into the 3/4" portion of the panel not the routed area, This makes it much stronger.
Note you will have to put a small wood spacer into the area between the joystick and the plywood and drill holes for the bolts to pass through.

I have been using this setup for a long time and it's very strong and leaves a nice clean look on the panel with no screws or bolts showing from the top.
One thing I've never had to worry about is the joysticks
busting through or the screws pulling out.



                                 Slug54

[eightbit]

If you make the panel out of plywood you can avoid all the screwing around and additional expense of trying to mount them in MDF.

[Auntie MAME]

If you use a Happ Super you may not be happy with the lenght of the joystick, unless you route out a bit on the bottom.  Also, wear goggles and a mask when routing MDF, it is nasty stuff.  The dust created is very fine.  

I created a sandwich of lauan, lexan and MDF and drilled through it.  Worked great and the lauan protected the lexan during the 'building' phase.