Mamewah runs slow - see Oct 22 post

[DemonBrew]

I saw the discussion thread on P3 600mhz Jukebox or MAME, and I have a question. I have a P3 650 with 500MB RAM, and it seems *real* slow starting MAME. Overall OS bootup and running seems terrific.

paigeoliver mentioned: "p3 600 mhz will rock the socks off a horizontal Mame .55 install or a vertical mame .60 install"

Here's my setup: Win98SE, he latest command line Windows version of MAME (.95?), MAMEWAH front end. I'm only interested in playing 1980s classics. When starting a game from within MAMEWAH, it seems to take maybe a full minute before it actually loads the game (the actual ROM startup, checksums, etc - not even "playing" the game).

Is my problem my MAME version? Should I use a older version, and if so, why? Two, should I be using the Pentium Pro optimized MAME?

[RayB]

You're running command line MAME but are you running it through Windows or through DOS? (ie: are you booting to DOS?)

How'd you manage 500 mb of RAM? That sounds like alot for such a low-spec system. Plus how is 500 possible?? Ram comes in exponentials of 2. Did you mean 512mb??

Re Pentium Pro: Is your CPU a Pentium Pro?

[SirPeale]

How'd you manage 500 mb of RAM? That sounds like alot for such a low-spec system. Plus how is 500 possible?? Ram comes in multiples of 2. Did you mean 512mb??

Heh...500 IS a multiple of 2. 

Though I'm sure he means 512.

Oh yeah:  DemonBrew, add 'skip_validitychecks 1' to your mame.ini file.

[Keller888]

512mb of RAM is overkill, I believe Win98 will only recognize 398mb anyway, the rest is not used.  WinXP will recognize and use up to 512MB and possibly more with SP2 installed...   Other than that, I don't know why a P3 600mhz is not enough to run your games, do you have an old video card? You should update your drivers as well....

[DemonBrew]

Yes, techinically there is 512 RAM. I just rounded off. It's a old corporate PC, pretty loaded on some of the hardware. I left it with 512 as a troubleshooting method - there must be some other reason for the slowness.

I boot into Win98, load MAMEWAH from startup folder, MAMEWAH launches a DOS Window / command line of MAME.

Re: Pentium Pro, I thought P Pro was like MMX. It was an add-on to the early Pentiums as an additional co-processor, but was pretty much assumed from PII on up. Maybe I'm wrong? So under that logic, a PIII would by default have the functionality of Pro, MMX, math co-processor, etc.

'skip_validitychecks 1': Thanks! I'll try that.

Video card is an Intel on board. I've been thinking of dumping a 64mb card in there... maybe that's my slowness problem? I think it's only a 4mb or 8mb now that I think about it.

[PrizLucky]

my experience with my PII 450 shows that the older the versions of Mame load up much more quickly...!

I started out running v.92 (because that was the latest version at the time) and I noticed similiar slow starting .. I realized that i didn't really need to run that version for any particular reason.. so I backed up and started running v.69 and noticed much better "startup" times.. (i've since moved up to v.72 for some minor game issues)..

anywayz.. I guess that was a long way of saying, "use and older version of mame" .. I think you'll like the results.

[spriggy]

I can only say that my old cabinet I gave to my brother runs an PIII-450mhz(overclocked to just over 500mhz) with 128mb of ram & Voodoo 3, with minimal installed Win98se, kicks ass on the classics and higher (that is running under mame 0.71).

[RayB]

I boot into Win98, load MAMEWAH from startup folder, MAMEWAH launches a DOS Window / command line of MAME.

OK, so Windows has to load up everything it needs. That's one part of the problem. Did you do a fresh, minimal install? Are you virus-free?

Re: Pentium Pro, I thought P Pro was like MMX. It was an add-on to the early Pentiums as an additional co-processor, but was pretty much assumed from PII on up. Maybe I'm wrong? So under that logic, a PIII would by default have the functionality of Pro, MMX, math co-processor, etc.

I might be wrong, but I understood P-Pro to be a special variant of Pentium, and that was it. No longer made. You might be right, but I never saw it marketed as a feature, only as its own more expensive CPU.

I think it's only a 4mb or 8mb now that I think about it.

That's plenty for old 2D games. Try an older version of MAME.

[PrizLucky]

Re: Pentium Pro, I thought P Pro was like MMX. It was an add-on to the early Pentiums as an additional co-processor, but was pretty much assumed from PII on up. Maybe I'm wrong? So under that logic, a PIII would by default have the functionality of Pro, MMX, math co-processor, etc.

I might be wrong, but I understood P-Pro to be a special variant of Pentium, and that was it. No longer made. You might be right, but I never saw it marketed as a feature, only as its own more expensive CPU.

The Pentium Pro's core was rolled into the Pentium II's core.. So really any Pentium II or III would/should benefit from code "optimized" for the Pentium Pro...

It's the original Pentiums that won't work (well) with the Pentium Pro stuff...

[DemonBrew]

OK, so Windows has to load up everything it needs. That's one part of the problem. Did you do a fresh, minimal install? Are you virus-free?

Yep, fresh install. No virus problem, nothing else installed (Office, etc, etc). Turned off unnecessary junk.

I'll have to try MAME .71 it looks like.

[Chris]

Here's my setup: Win98SE, he latest command line Windows version of MAME (.95?), MAMEWAH front end. I'm only interested in playing 1980s classics. When starting a game from within MAMEWAH, it seems to take maybe a full minute before it actually loads the game (the actual ROM startup, checksums, etc - not even "playing" the game).

What happens if you open a DOS prompt and start the game from the command line?

For those not familiar with the command line, enter the following two commands:

CD \MAME
MAME PACMAN

(This assumes MAME is in C:\MAME.

[DemonBrew]

What happens if you open a DOS prompt and start the game from the command line?
Does it start quickly?

[SirPoonga]

and it seems *real* slow starting MAME.?

You mean as mame is loading before the game starts?  With newer versions of mame I am not suprised.  I believe there are more checks mame does.  I think some can be turned off.

[DemonBrew]

Dumb question: how easy is it to find MAME .71 or other older versions? Only reason I ask - I'm at work and we have the web filtered. It's a wonder this site isn't blocked. ~crosses fingers~

[quarterback]

Dumb question: how easy is it to find MAME .71 or other older versions? Only reason I ask - I'm at work and we have the web filtered. It's a wonder this site isn't blocked. ~crosses fingers~

Easy to find older versions: http://www.mame.net/oldmame.html

[DemonBrew]

Easy to find older versions: http://www.mame.net/oldmame.html

Awesome. Until I get home, I'll just have to trust you for now.

[PrizLucky]

When you do get a chance to check out that page, you'll notice that the Older versions list only go up to v.69 (edit- v.69 is the "newest" old version if you want something newer than .69, follow in instructions in that post)

there is a trick to get the other ones that was well documented for me here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,32992.0.html

[DemonBrew]

Thanks, I'll give those a shot (MAME .71, try without MAMEWAH, 'skip_validitychecks 1', maybe another video card. I'll post my results after the weekend.

[quarterback]

Easy to find older versions: http://www.mame.net/oldmame.html

Awesome. Until I get home, I'll just have to trust you for now.

MWAAHAHAAHAHA!

[DemonBrew]

"I've come to steal your porn and sodomize my vast imagination.
But how will you stop me, DemonBrew, when you're cold as ice?"

Awesome! Too bad it doesn't look like the one in the episode.

"are you ready for some Hot Girls in Love?"

[quarterback]

"I've come to steal your porn and sodomize my vast imagination.
But how will you stop me, DemonBrew, when you're cold as ice?"

Awesome! Too bad it doesn't look like the one in the episode.

"are you ready for some Hot Girls in Love?"

LOL

[paigeoliver]

Go back to somewhere between .55 and .60, that system SHOULD play all of those games full speed. Using newer versions than that will simply reduce the number of games you can play, not increase them (newer versions will not be able to handle many of the games the older versions did, and almost none of the games addded in the newer versions that are actually worth playing will run full speed on that processor, just crap like bootleg Moon Cresta clones and stuff like that).

[IntruderAlert]

It would sure be nice if someone made a chart of the recommended MHz for each MAME version

[quarterback]

It would sure be nice if someone made a chart of the recommended MHz for each MAME version

Excellent idea.  Let us know when you're done with that chart Intruder

[paigeoliver]

It would sure be nice if someone made a chart of the recommended MHz for each MAME version

I don't have a hard and fast chart, but basically here it is in a nutshell.

Normal installs.

800mhz or less, Mame .55
833-1 ghz, Mame .60
Greater than 1 ghz Mame .70
Greater than 2 ghz current version

Dedicated vertical installs.
500 mhz or less, Mame .55
533-800, Mame .60
833-1ghz Mame .70
greater than 1 ghz = current version.

You can use newer mames on dedicated vertical installs because almost all the REAL CPU hogs are horizontal games. Although there hasn't been anything vertical worth mentioning added to mame since like .70.

You can obviously tune this a little bit, if you are a Mortal Kombat freak trying to get full speed on those on your sub 1ghz system then try .55, .60 and .70. Previous testing has shown me that .70 is the faster MK driver on MOST systems, but .60 and .55 are faster on some systems. In general though newer=slower.

[PrizLucky]

paigeoliver, I've seen you often tout the .55 version, but is there any good Mame configuration documentation out there? I'm still a newb and when I went back to .55 my machine just ran like crap... v.69 seems to be the earliest version that does Direct3d, and that was the earliest version that I could get to run anything decently (w/o frameskipping).

I suppose i should learn how to really configure Mame.. but it was just easier to run v.69   

[paigeoliver]

paigeoliver, I've seen you often tout the .55 version, but is there any good Mame configuration documentation out there? I'm still a newb and when I went back to .55 my machine just ran like crap... v.69 seems to be the earliest version that does Direct3d, and that was the earliest version that I could get to run anything decently (w/o frameskipping).

I suppose i should learn how to really configure Mame.. but it was just easier to run v.69   

Not sure why you have direct3d enabled at all.

Most of the mame versions seem to ship with lots of bad defaults, you usually have to manually tune the configs.

And by "anything" what does that mean? Does anything mean 58 separate games ranging from Space Invaders Deluxe to Metal Slug 2. Or does "anything" mean UMK3, Prop Cycle, STUN Runner, and Area 51.

[PrizLucky]

paigeoliver, I've seen you often tout the .55 version, but is there any good Mame configuration documentation out there? I'm still a newb and when I went back to .55 my machine just ran like crap... v.69 seems to be the earliest version that does Direct3d, and that was the earliest version that I could get to run anything decently (w/o frameskipping).

I suppose i should learn how to really configure Mame.. but it was just easier to run v.69   

Not sure why you have direct3d enabled at all.

Most of the mame versions seem to ship with lots of bad defaults, you usually have to manually tune the configs.

And by "anything" what does that mean? Does anything mean 58 separate games ranging from Space Invaders Deluxe to Metal Slug 2. Or does "anything" mean UMK3, Prop Cycle, STUN Runner, and Area 51.

"Anything" on my machine (my machine is a PII 400mhz) means Pacman, Ms. Pac, the Donkey Kongs... etc etc all the classic vertical games..   turning on Direct3d for me means no frameskipping.. If i turn it off  (or use a version older than .69) they run with bad frameskipping..  so for me, i have every reason in the world to turn it on, and wouldn't see why anybody would turn it off!
Like I said above, I'm sure I just need to learn how to really configure Mame .. I'm still looking for any good info on how to get it done.. the config isn't totally simple for a newbie like me..
:::Shrug:::

edit- ohh and at this point, I'm happy with my current config (it runs well and looks good), I'd just like to learn, and get a better understanding on how to configure it, especially if i ever built a machine on a slower box.  I know i was frustrated when reading these boards and seeing people say "go use v.55" like that was a simple solution, when it really wasn't (again for a newb like me).. I just want to learn more!

[Tiger-Heli]

How'd you manage 500 mb of RAM? That sounds like alot for such a low-spec system. Plus how is 500 possible?? Ram comes in multiples of 2. Did you mean 512mb??

Heh...500 IS a multiple of 2. 

Though I'm sure he means 512.

Lots of bad info in this thred.  Rayb said exponentials of 2, not multiples of 2.  500 is a multiple of 2, 512 is an exponential of 2.

[Tiger-Heli]

512mb of RAM is overkill, I believe Win98 will only recognize 398mb anyway, the rest is not used.  WinXP will recognize and use up to 512MB and possibly more with SP2 installed...   Other than that, I don't know why a P3 600mhz is not enough to run your games, do you have an old video card? You should update your drivers as well....

Win98 will work fine with 512M of RAM.  Starts having problems with more than that.

[Tiger-Heli]

Video card is an Intel on board. I've been thinking of dumping a 64mb card in there... maybe that's my slowness problem? I think it's only a 4mb or 8mb now that I think about it.

4 or 8 mb is plenty, but on-board is not good as it sucks memory and CPU cycles away from emulation.

[RayB]

Tiger: I went back and edited my post. It originally said multiples.

Paige: His problem isn't slow game performance. He's saying it's slow loading (at least that was his original complaint).

[DemonBrew]

Paige: His problem isn't slow game performance. He's saying it's slow loading (at least that was his original complaint).

Correct - when I select the game I want in MAMEWAH, it takes about a minute before I actually see anything change on the screen.

I haven't been able to try any of the suggestions yet, but I did locate a 64mb video card in my basement. Overkill yes, but it certainly won't hurt.

[RayB]

Your problem isn't your video card. If it was, you'd be seeing the first bit of visuals right away and then you'd have lousy graphics performance.

[SirPeale]

It would sure be nice if someone made a chart of the recommended MHz for each MAME version

By version it wouldn't be a good basis.  Some games do fine on older hardware.  For example, I can play the Williams classics just fine on a 450MHz, and that IIRC was with .89.  I tried .95 not long ago on a 500MHz, and it was fine as well with

[daywane]

I am not a expert but I still think its a video card. I know memory is the best up grade but a vid card is a big plus
I seem to be bumping into 733 meg computers.
I put 512 meg mem and all is ok
but toss in a vid card and performance is really noticeable.
I think even more so then the mem up grade
just my 2 cents.
I was afraid he did have 500 meg memory
I have a PC that has a strange # like that. some chips are bad
my 9 year old has that PC.
I will fix it when it becomes a problem
runs every thing 100 % for her.
I mean how much CPU will sponge bob take

[RayB]

Listen, in the days of Pentium 500's, we ran Windows 98 with 32 or 64 megs of memory, and 8 meg PCI video cards. It was more than adequate.

We're talking emulating PACMAN here people.

[daywane]

Listen, in the days of Pentium 500's, we ran Windows 98 with 32 or 64 megs of memory, and 8 meg PCI video cards. It was more than adequate.

We're talking emulating PACMAN here people.

and 8 meg PCI video cards.
a stand alone card.
but I here ya.
I have a HP 233
on board vid and sound 64 meg mem
running xp pro
Mame 56 running fine
well Ms PAC sound strange. I just put this together
I need to read back and see what version he is running. I think it was a high number
I like 56 because it was a final version.

[heffe2001]

512mb of RAM is overkill, I believe Win98 will only recognize 398mb anyway, the rest is not used.  WinXP will recognize and use up to 512MB and possibly more with SP2 installed...   Other than that, I don't know why a P3 600mhz is not enough to run your games, do you have an old video card? You should update your drivers as well....

XP SP1/NO SP will use more than 512mb, that' one of the benefits of the 2000-based OS's.

[krick]

512mb of RAM is overkill, I believe Win98 will only recognize 398mb anyway, the rest is not used.