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Author Topic: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)  (Read 20122 times)

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RandyT

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GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« on: April 18, 2005, 04:23:00 pm »


I just finished the first release of this one.  Sorry it took so long.

You can download the program by clicking on the screen shot.  The instructions are in the archive.  You can play around with it even if you don't have a GP-Wiz49, just to see how it operates.  Requires v1.2 firmware to function (currently shipping.)

Sorry about making a new thread for this, but I wanted make sure that those who were interested would see it. :)

Thanks,
RandyT
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 12:53:52 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2005, 06:25:10 pm »
Thanks Randy!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 06:34:35 pm by MrSaLTy »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2005, 06:35:12 pm »
Thanks Randy!
I'm planning to order my 4 later tonight.
Now if someone can just figure out an easy way to have automatic switching...

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2005, 06:58:50 pm »
Randy, when you use the software in the non-interactive mode and you have 2 gpwiz49's will it just change both automatically?   I figure it does but just checking.

You figured right.  All sticks are kicked into the same DRS mode.

This can be changed in a future version, but at the moment, I can't think of a compelling reason to do them differently.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2005, 07:02:15 pm »
sweet, thanks.  Its fine for me that way.  :D

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2005, 07:14:54 pm »
Cool, just got my interfaces today also.


Gotta build a new control panel for the new sticks.


Later,
dabone

(Now we just need miniwah to come back from holiday and intergrate support for the program)


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2005, 07:42:13 pm »
Thanks Randy!
I'm planning to order my 4 later tonight.
Now if someone can just figure out an easy way to have automatic switching...

Check out GameEx. http://www.gameex.net/ it already supports automatic mode switching based on controls.ini. Since Randy's app uses the same conventions for modes as the batch files I did, there's no reason it shouldn't work just as easily.

Toonces

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2005, 07:55:24 pm »
Wow, looks slick Randy.  My 49-way and encoder showed up today, so this weekend I'll be making my first ever CP to check it out.  From messing around with it just out of the box, I love the feel of the stick and will probably be ordering another shortly.  Now I need to figure out where to get some screws and read up on how to mount the stick.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2005, 09:09:18 pm »


(Now we just need miniwah to come back from holiday and intergrate support for the program)



I was thinking about this earlier... it should be fairly straight forward to get this working for the vast number of games now without really doing anything to mamewah.  I think that you can use the control type from mame as a commandline arg. I know this is not as accurate as controls.ini but will do for now.  Then build a .bat file that can call the gpwiz utility with the correct number.  Then call this before mame is called for each game.   I'm going to take a look at doing this but don't know how soon I will get to it as I have not hooked up the sticks yet.

In the future it would be great if minwah can parse out the control.ini file for a more accurate version of this but I think this will be a decent stop gap for mamewah users.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 10:04:40 pm »
Randy,

I hooked one of the MAX's I received today up and it won't change modes through the software switching.  It always stays in 49-way mode.  I haven't tried the button way yet...

Any suggestions?  Any data I need to give you?  I'm running Windows XP SP2 and checking the joystick through the Windows 'Game Controllers' properties.  Software loads up, detects Device 1 as yellow light, Midway joystick selected.  Click on any of the modes and press Go, light for Device 1 turns green and the program closes.  I go to verify the mode in 'Game Controllers' and it remains in 49-way mode.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2005, 10:26:31 pm by Troz »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2005, 10:59:44 pm »
Troz, do you know if gpwiz49 you have has the new firmware on it? It has to have the new firmware for it to work I think.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2005, 11:09:19 pm »


(Now we just need miniwah to come back from holiday and intergrate support for the program)



I was thinking about this earlier... it should be fairly straight forward to get this working for the vast number of games now without really doing anything to mamewah.  I think that you can use the control type from mame as a commandline arg. I know this is not as accurate as controls.ini but will do for now.  Then build a .bat file that can call the gpwiz utility with the correct number.  Then call this before mame is called for each game.   I'm going to take a look at doing this but don't know how soon I will get to it as I have not hooked up the sticks yet.

In the future it would be great if minwah can parse out the control.ini file for a more accurate version of this but I think this will be a decent stop gap for mamewah users.

That will work as long as you don't try any 2 way games or 4 way diagonals. You'll also have to map controls like stick, buttons only, etc to some sort or control. Usually 8 way.

MrSaLTy

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2005, 11:12:22 pm »
Yeah I was looking thru the list of what mame has... and I noticed what you said.  For the few games that I need that are differnt I can add the rom name to what is passed and check for it and then make the correct choice accordingly.  I have not tried it yet but it should work in theory.

Troz

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 11:48:15 pm »
Troz, do you know if gpwiz49 you have has the new firmware on it? It has to have the new firmware for it to work I think.

I ordered them (4!) once v1.2 was available from Randy's site.  Maybe I'll try hooking up one of the other 3...

Troz

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2005, 12:01:41 am »
Ok, I wired up my device #3 and had it running.  Ran the software and it crashed during the detection phase, so I plugged my #1 device back in.  Once I did that the software didn't crash on me and I was able to update the joysticks.  The 49-way plugged into Device #3 then responded to the software programming!  Yay!

I only have 1 floppy cable at the moment so I can't hook any additional joysticks up.  I'll get some more tomorrow and do more testing...

Randy, is it possible to find out what firmwire revision is on each of the devices?  Could my Device #1 have the old firmware on it?

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2005, 08:23:00 am »
Randy, is it possible to find out what firmwire revision is on each of the devices?  Could my Device #1 have the old firmware on it?

Hmmmm.....it really shouldn't....

No, there's no way to tell other than what you just mentioned.  Try the other units, then go back to #1 with all the same setup and cablling.  If it still isn't responding, I'll shoot out a replacement chip for you, just in case.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2005, 01:26:31 pm »
I must have missed something in one of the other threads.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2005, 01:41:12 pm »
I must have missed something in one of the other threads.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2005, 01:55:13 pm »
just for clarification, 16 way was created entirely for 720.  it kinda works...but you'd have to make a special restrictor for it.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2005, 02:02:19 pm »
It was added at Kremmit's request.  He later said that it didn't do as well as he had hoped, but it was already there and there was nothing else waiting for the slot so it stayed.

Maybe there will be an analog game that works better with it somewhere, and if so, then that's great.  It cost nothing to leave it in, so consider it a "freebie"  :)

RandyT
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 02:07:21 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2005, 02:42:33 pm »
It was added at Kremmit's request.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2005, 02:59:56 pm »
Hey, I just had a thought.. This isn't a requirement, but since it's all software based, would it be possible to handle the "up-is-up" vs. "up-is-towards-the-monitor" dilemma some people face? Can you switch between the two via software?

  If so, I can see this appealing to people who are initially building their cabs and are debating how to mount their joysticks...

*shrug*

-sab

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2005, 05:19:03 pm »
Randy,
nice interface, but I assume there is nothing like this for us linux users?

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2005, 11:13:36 pm »
Hey, I just had a thought.. This isn't a requirement, but since it's all software based, would it be possible to handle the "up-is-up" vs. "up-is-towards-the-monitor" dilemma some people face? Can you switch between the two via software?

Can't this be solved by mounting the stick the way you really want it?  Or do you mean some people prefer both in different situations?

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2005, 11:35:56 pm »
All is working for me now.  I hooked up a second joystick and the programming worked on my Device #1 as well as the second device.  Now to re-design my panels and get all 4 hooked up...

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2005, 11:56:16 pm »
All is working for me now.  I hooked up a second joystick and the programming worked on my Device #1 as well as the second device.  Now to re-design my panels and get all 4 hooked up...

Great to hear!  You had me worried there for a moment (well, a little confused at least ;) )

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2005, 07:50:31 am »
Hey, I just had a thought.. This isn't a requirement, but since it's all software based, would it be possible to handle the "up-is-up" vs. "up-is-towards-the-monitor" dilemma some people face? Can you switch between the two via software?

Can't this be solved by mounting the stick the way you really want it?  Or do you mean some people prefer both in different situations?

  Yeah it can, but I was talking about the people that weren't sure which way to mount it, you know, first timers :)

-sab

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2005, 08:48:19 am »
Hi Randy,

here's an interesting idea (if possible):

- give the user the ability to create their own grid map.

This will allow many to tweak their config to the way they like it/feel comfortable.  It can either be a new "user select" config, or even with the capability to overwrite the default settings.  The software will then need to have a "restore defaults" option (but at no time will it show your IP - the default).


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2005, 09:01:14 am »
Hi Randy,

here's an interesting idea (if possible):

- give the user the ability to create their own grid map.


While this is possible, and was considered, it's unlikely anyone would bother after they see how well the defaults work.  Deviating from the included DRS modes would also most likely just cause a degradation in performance.

Thanks for the suggestion.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2005, 11:40:56 am »
Why not allow for one custom mapping?  If most people will like the defaults, they just might want one custom mapping for something.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2005, 12:02:50 pm »
Why not allow for one custom mapping?  If most people will like the defaults, they just might want one custom mapping for something.

Like I said.  No real value there and a LOT of work and delays to implement  Bang for buck, IMHO, is zero.

Besides, didn't we have this discussion already?

RandyT
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 12:44:12 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2005, 12:51:58 pm »
Besides, didn't we have this discussion already?
If it keeps coming up, as a seller that should tell you something...

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2005, 01:09:08 pm »
Besides, didn't we have this discussion already?
If it keeps coming up, as a seller that should tell you something...

If it comes up from a customer who has already purchased and is using the product, it carries far more weight than someone on the sidelines, who may be well-intentioned, but doesn't understand the first thing about how it works or why.

Unless you use the product, you can't possibly know what is needed or even beneficial.  So far, I haven't received one complaint from users, in fact all of them are about as tickled as can be with the performance of the unit.

You should really buy one and check it out.  You might just find it harder to find fault with that way.  :)

But let me put ot to you another way:

Look at the screenshot at the top of this thread.  If 3 people said that the software would be better if there was a big yellow button in the middle that made belching noises, do you think that it should be added, even though it does nothing for the product?

A user definable grid in addition to the ones already present on the product IS that "big yellow button"

RandyT
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 01:22:15 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2005, 01:20:41 pm »
How do I know JoeB is or isn't a customer?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 01:27:08 pm by SirPoonga »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2005, 01:25:06 pm »
big yellow buttons are cool

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2005, 01:28:05 pm »
big yellow buttons are cool

I prefer big red ones that say start, when pressed a vroom sound occurs :)

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2005, 01:49:56 pm »
How do I know JoeB is or isn't a customer?  He's the one who brought it up.  So maybe a customer did bring up suggestion?  How would I know. 

Well, the "not a user" thing was mostly for you, as you didn't seem to want to accept my answer to the gentleman and seemed to have your own view.

Quote
Ok, is there only one way to do the task?  Usually there is more than one solution.  Just a suggestion man.  With how defensive you get it seems like you don't even want to bother with it instead of seeing if there is an elegant solution.

This has been beaten to death in that other 14 page thread (or is it 15 now).  I have said on a number of occasions that there IS ONLY ONE WAY THAT THIS WORKS WELL and I believe (I could be wrong) that at least once it was in direct response to you.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2005, 02:05:33 pm »
Following up on the Linux support question, Randy can you provide the lowlevel API (IOCTL commands I'm assuming) documentation to how the app works so that FE authors wanting a built in solution, or other platform users can implement this as well?

Thanks so much!
-james

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2005, 02:11:39 pm »
so it's basically adding a function for the hard core users as opposed to the real target for this product
Not true, he added the 16way which was based of one person's opinion.

That's why I brought it up again since I figured he's still open on new ideas.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2005, 02:13:04 pm »
Following up on the Linux support question, Randy can you provide the lowlevel API (IOCTL commands I'm assuming) documentation to how the app works so that FE authors wanting a built in solution, or other platform users can implement this as well?

James,

If you know anyone interested in doing this, they should contact me directly and outline their plans.  I'll help in any way I can.

RandyT
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 09:10:16 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2005, 02:18:03 pm »
so it's basically adding a function for the hard core users as opposed to the real target for this product
Not true, he added the 16way which was based of one person's opinion.


I don't think the customizeable layout a bad request, I just think the product needs some time to mature first. That may be a great addition to future generations of the product, but he should be able to put out the product now and reap the rewards of such a novel idea for the community. If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product, and would have a number of unhappy customers who were trading product back for newer features.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 02:19:52 pm by dema »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2005, 02:41:14 pm »
I don't think the customizeable layout a bad request, I just think the product needs some time to mature first. That may be a great addition to future generations of the product, but he should be able to put out the product now and reap the rewards of such a novel idea for the community. If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product, and would have a number of unhappy customers who were trading product back for newer features.

Exactly. The whole reasom I am waiting for the right time to buy one.

I know he has to limit features per version.  Every product is that way.  You can only do so much in time. 

Plus products never end.  People find new uses for stuff all the time :)

Anyway, end of discussion.  Obvuiously it isn't going to happen no matter how hard anyone tries.  Though I will bring it up when I get one.  I have ideas for use of such a feature...

Actually, new but related idea.  *IF* one could customize mapping, would it be possible to map a keycode to a particular 49way grid through this interface?  If this ever happens I have a frontend idea....

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2005, 02:51:14 pm »
Unless you use the product, you can't possibly know what is needed or even beneficial.  So far, I haven't received one complaint from users, in fact all of them are about as tickled as can be with the performance of the unit.
Okay, let me chime in on a few things here.  I also said that I thought it would be good to add a couple of "user-defined" modes, at least as an expansion option to the product.  I thought this would require an additional software package to make, define, and save the modes.  Whether he adds it or not is RandyT's call.  I agree that it probably is nothing I would use (other than just to mess with b/c I could), if I owned the product.

But here's an example of one case where owning the product makes a difference.  Randy asked me if I had tried the software in command-line mode since that was something I requested in the 15-page thread.  I hadn't b/c I didn't think it would work or I would see anything without a GP-Wiz49 connected.  Then I thought "He asked if I have tried it, so it must do something.  Maybe it splashes up that big screen with all the modes shown and the chosen one highlighted?"  I could see some people thinking that was cool and others hating it.  I thought I would need to recommend a "Stealth" flag so you don't see that.

Then I tried it.  A little icon pops up to tell you what mode the stick is in.  I kinda like it and if I had time would add it even without the GP-Wiz49, b/c it's a handy reference if a game is unfamiliar.

But I would never have known if I didn't test it out myself.
Quote from: SirPoonga
I guess I don't understand how some people can be that way, lock out ideas completely and never look at them again.  It's how you learn by trying out new things.
You might keep in mind that when the product was released, RandyT was unable to program it through the USB port.  This was added entirely as a result of user requests.  So it's not that he's ignoring his customers, just choosing which requests to honor.
Quote from: DEMA
If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product. . .
That would be almost like building an arcade cabinet, then . . . oh, wait . . .

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When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2005, 03:04:51 pm »
You might keep in mind that when the product was released, RandyT was unable to program it through the USB port.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2005, 03:14:43 pm »
I ordered mine last night because I think it is at a point where it's okay.  I figured that the first change is all we will see for a while and I am happy with what the current offering is.  I also checked out the software before I made my order (already shipped I might add)
I also guessed that people will create software to work with the current firmware if anything new happens. 

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2005, 03:35:09 pm »
Quote
I have two good reasons for not getting it right now.  The product isn't stable enough, there's been firmware upgrade, new features, etc.  I knew that was going to happen as it seemed like the product was rushed to market without much testing, especially with the responses given in the 15 page thread.  It's like buying a new car, try and avoid the first year/version as it has bugs.  So as a consumer I am going to wait for the actiont o settle down.

I don't think Randy is ignoring requests, but as you pointed out, if he doesn't stop changing it every day, then more people who are waiting for the final product will delay buying one.  I think at this point it is doing what Randy intended it to do, so it is "finished."  Think of the first 15 page thread as R&D and this thread as support for a finished product.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2005, 03:42:36 pm »
I ordered mine last night because I think it is at a point where it's okay.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2005, 04:29:55 pm »
Hey Randy.

Any chance of getting a couple of 49-ways and a GP-Wiz49 to Kevin over at Retroblast for an in-depth review?   ;)

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2005, 04:50:16 pm »
Everyone says that 16-way isn't any good for 720, however, I am looking forward to using it with my Intellivision emulator, Nostalgia <http://www.shiny-technologies.com/nostalgia.php>, so even though I don't have any of this gear yet, I am interested in 16-way operation.  (Intellivision's had 16-way disc controllers with a 12 digit keypad and 2 "action buttons")

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2005, 05:00:22 pm »
Hey Randy.

Any chance of getting a couple of 49-ways and a GP-Wiz49 to Kevin over at Retroblast for an in-depth review?   ;)

Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box  ;)

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2005, 05:02:13 pm »
Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box  ;)
I was looking for the proper way to say that!!!!  Thanks!!!
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When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2005, 05:02:44 pm »
so cruel..

but i think it's a good idea too
I like kevin's reviews  ;D

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2005, 05:06:29 pm »
Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box  ;)
I was looking for the proper way to say that!!!!  Thanks!!!
If you want to know why it probably won't happen, refer to this:

http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/rebuttal.htm
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2005, 05:21:48 pm »
can you summarize that because I tried reading it and it just makes my head hurt

I gathered that Kevin's review was less than perfect.
Did he dis' the KeyWiz badly or just leave out some things he should have mentioned?


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2005, 05:25:16 pm »
can you summarize that because I tried reading it and it just makes my head hurt
I gathered that Kevin's review was less than perfect.
Did he dis' the KeyWiz badly or just leave out some things he should have mentioned?
Monkeybomb NAILED it with the "might be a contender" comment.  He didn't say it sucked, but he left out a LOT that should have been mentioned, added faults that weren't faults, etc.

Like I said at the start of the page, I basically reprinted the entire review, b/c there was that little to it that didn't need revising.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2005, 05:28:39 pm »
It seemed to me like he went after it.  If I remeber right he made comparisons that weren't even true.  He showed a chart that included features on the IPAC that weren't available at the price he quoted.  That to me is just blatant.

I actualy like Kevin's reviews and I check his site daily.  It is a great rescource for all of us.  He just blew it on that review pretty badly.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2005, 05:29:51 pm »
Did Kevin ever reply at all?

Man.. this stinks..
You guys just ruined my opinion of RetroBlast! >:(

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2005, 05:32:53 pm »
Did Kevin ever reply at all?
Not that I'm aware of.
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When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2005, 05:41:16 pm »
Did Kevin ever reply at all?

Man.. this stinks..
You guys just ruined my opinion of RetroBlast! >:(

Don't let it ruin retroblast for you, just use it for what it is.  He is just a guy with some opinions, not the all knowing harware god.  He doesn't claim to be more than that.  There are facts in his reviews just use the grain of salt you use with movie, restaurant and game reviewers.  I think I know where his bias is and I don't expect complete objectivity from any reviewer.  It's just unrealistic. 

After Tiger-Heli wrote his response Kevin did provide a link to it on his front page.  What I was really disapointed with was that he never fixed the pricepoint on the comparison.  It was simply incorret and should have been changed.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2005, 05:46:31 pm »
After Tiger-Heli wrote his response Kevin did provide a link to it on his front page.
I missed that, but I rarely go to the front page.  But yeah, it's a decent site, but Kevin muffed that one, badly.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2005, 08:06:47 pm »
I just want to make sure something is understood here (it seems to be by most, but it appears there may be a few stragglers)

The GP-Wiz49, as it was originally released, was bug-free and fully tested.  It did exactly what it was designed to do, even if some had different opinions of what it should do.

Don't confuse a manufacturer upgrading a product and writing a new application resulting in increased functionality with no additional increase in price with "unstable or inadequately tested " firmware.  The two are worlds apart.

Is the product better for the added capabilities?  Of course.  Was it good the first time through?  Definitely.  In fact, unless you are running Windows or wanted to use a rotary switch, there is currently no difference in functionality.  Hopefully someone from the Linux or Mac camp will join the cause and we can get that taken care of because I'm not the guy for either of those two platforms.

BTW, I'm finding that unless a frontend is going to do it for you, the button combos are much easier/quicker to execute for the changeover, at least if you only need to do it for one stick.
Just something to keep in mind if the constant jumping between the app and your front end starts to make you weary while you wait for the FE's to catch up. :)

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2005, 08:53:49 pm »
I Hopefully someone from the Linux or Mac camp will join the cause and we can get that taken care of because I'm not the guy for either of those two platforms.


RandyT
Ahhh, theres my answer  :-\
I hope so too.  I don't put anything on my games that require user intervention before playing a game.  I will probably pick one up anyway next time I need something from ya....will be cool just to play around with.   ;)  I won't be able to pass it up at that price.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2005, 09:40:52 pm »
Randy, I don't remember anyone saying that the GPWIZ49 was not 'up to snuff' in anyway.... I for one, really appreciate the added functionality with the new firmware.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2005, 06:56:11 am »
Randy, I don't remember anyone saying that the GPWIZ49 was not 'up to snuff' in anyway....
I believe RandyT's comment is based on SirPoonga's earlier comment, quoted below.  I also agree with Randy, for the most part, more to come. . .
Quote from: SirPoonga
I have two good reasons for not getting it right now.  The product isn't stable enough, there's been firmware upgrade, new features, etc.  I knew that was going to happen as it seemed like the product was rushed to market without much testing, especially with the responses given in the 15 page thread.  It's like buying a new car, try and avoid the first year/version as it has bugs.  So as a consumer I am going to wait for the actiont o settle down.  The second is I don't have a 49way of my own yet...
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2005, 07:17:16 am »
I just want to make sure something is understood here (it seems to be by most, but it appears there may be a few stragglers)

The GP-Wiz49, as it was originally released, was bug-free and fully tested.  It did exactly what it was designed to do, even if some had different opinions of what it should do.

Don't confuse a manufacturer upgrading a product and writing a new application resulting in increased functionality with no additional increase in price with "unstable or inadequately tested " firmware.  The two are worlds apart.
Understood by me, and I fully agree.
Quote
In fact, unless you are running Windows . . .
And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.
Quote
BTW, I'm finding that unless a frontend is going to do it for you, the button combos are much easier/quicker to execute for the changeover, at least if you only need to do it for one stick.
Randy, do you see any funky way to wire the second board up so it is "slaved" to the first board, so executing the button combos for board one will change both sticks?  (I'm guessing not by the language of your post.
Quote
Just something to keep in mind if the constant jumping between the app and your front end starts to make you weary while you wait for the FE's to catch up. :)
I have some hints on how to make it work with the current FE's at the end of the the 15-page thread, starting with this message
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2005, 07:37:50 am »
Quote
And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.


So you are saying that 85% of people here use a non windows/linux system.

Thats why mamewah and the like are so unpopular because they only support windows.


The only reason to run dos now is for smaller stripped down cabs, I've got one for vertical games only running advmame .92 with advmenu.

But my other 2 mame cabs run xp.

USB devices are here to stay, and dos is dying at a good pace, i.e. no more offical dos mame anymore.

Later,
dabone

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2005, 07:44:46 am »
Quote
And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.
So you are saying that 85% of people here use a non windows/linux system.
Thats why mamewah and the like are so unpopular because they only support windows.
The only reason to run dos now is for smaller stripped down cabs, I've got one for vertical games only running advmame .92 with advmenu.
But my other 2 mame cabs run xp.
USB devices are here to stay, and dos is dying at a good pace, i.e. no more offical dos mame anymore.
Read my post again.  The GP-Wiz49 won't work with DOS (USB device) so it's target market doesn't include DOS users.  I was saying that Windows-users were 85 percent of the target market.  If I had to guess, I would say that about 12% of the remaining use Linux and about 3% Mac.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2005, 07:50:49 am »
Whoops, misread that..

Sorry.


later,
dabone



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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2005, 09:40:23 am »
Unless you use the product, you can't possibly know what is needed or even beneficial.  So far, I haven't received one complaint from users, in fact all of them are about as tickled as can be with the performance of the unit.

You're right Randy.. Currently I'm not a user, but I'm seriously considering becoming one (once I find cheap 49-way joysticks).

But just because I'm not a user, doesn't mean that I'm not looking out for the rest of the people.

For example, just 2 days ago, I emailed Kevin Steele asking him to do a review of your product.  I'm sure your product is that great, and a positive review from Kevin can only do good things for your business.

Future customers are as important as past ones. 


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2005, 10:59:40 pm »
Randy, I am experiencing the same weirdness that Troz was having.... If I have just the 1st GPWIZ49 plugged in, it will not change modes with the software.  It goes through and says its changing modes... but after I test it, I find it is still in the same mode.  BUT.... If I have both #1 and #2 attached.... When I switch modes... it works.  I dont have a 2nd joy hooked to the wiz on 2 yet so I have not been able to see if it is actually changing modes on 2 but I will move it over later and test it out.  Got any ideas?  I do plan on having both hooked up at the same time eventually so if its working that way Its probably ok but I think this may cause issues for some.  Ill try it with just #2 later and see if it works with 2 alone... maybe its just an issue with #1

Ill let you know how it goes.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2005, 08:49:02 am »
Please, do me a favor and take support issues to email (not PM)

It's not easy to keep track of who, what and why when you are doing it in a public forum.

Are you upgrading from a previous firmware revision or a new install?  It's possible Windows, thinks that the capabilities of the new device are the same as the previous one which couldn't be "spoken to", and it might need to be "refreshed" on the system.  98SE doesn't seem to exhibit this, but I have seen 2K/XP do it on occasion.

Once the device is able to be written to, Windows should be OK with it from that point on.  You might want to test device #1 by itself again.  Sounds as though plugging in the second unit may have caused Windows to refresh the USB parameters that it stores, bringing it up to date with the new device #1.

BTW, I am currently using only 1 unit and the software is working fine.  All combinations were tested, and no issues were found.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2005, 10:41:32 am »
...I am currently using only 1 unit and the software is working fine.  All combinations were tested, and no issues were found.

Apparently there was one combination I missed, and that was multiple HID devices on a 2K/XP system.  This had some difficulties depending on the order of the enumeration of the GP-Wiz49's and the other HID devices.  This did not seem to affect 98SE/ME systems.  2K/XP systems were also fine if no other HID devices were present outside of the GP-Wiz49's.

The software has been updated to account for this, so everyone please grab a new copy by clicking on the screenshot at the beginning of the thread or by clicking here.

Big thanks to markrvp and MrSaLTy for testing out the changes and providing info about their setups. :)

RandyT
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 01:49:53 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2005, 02:30:12 pm »
And thank you Randy for the prompt response and fix.  ;D

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2005, 03:33:58 pm »
Ditto.  Customer support on this product is above and beyond what you should expect.

Thank you very much, Randy.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2005, 07:27:53 pm »
Anyone that is interested in auto mode switching with mamewah can look to see how I did it here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35927.0.html

Its brute force but it works until mamewah can parse controls.ini

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2005, 08:04:00 pm »
Wow I just saw this!  I cannpt believe you can sell something so versitile so cheap!  Can anyone comment on how these things work in 2 way, 4 way , diagonal mode?  I can't see why anyone would bother with anything else.  Just two 49ways and a couple of these and you cover every joystick!  WOW!  great product, mucho kudos if it works well under all the other modes besides 49way...

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #77 on: April 27, 2005, 06:36:52 am »
Wow I just saw this!  I cannpt believe you can sell something so versitile so cheap!  Can anyone comment on how these things work in 2 way, 4 way , diagonal mode?
See the original 15-page introductory thread, but I haven't heard ANYONE who has used them complain about them.  Toonces posted (in a different thread) that they worked better in Donkey Kong than the T-Stick Plus which is a true restricted 4-way if that gives you any idea.
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #78 on: April 27, 2005, 07:44:22 am »
The only bad thing... and not really a bad thing at all... Is the 16 way (or whatever) that was designed to give a solution for 720 doesn't work that well.  But the raw settings works pretty well with 720 (compared to any other non-original setting).

So if you are looking for a good all around solution this is probably the best bet. 

What I haven't heard anyone talk about is how good it works in fighters for special moves..  But I'm assuming people would have already started complaining if that was an issue.

Oh yeah... and look at another thread... soon you will be able to convert it to a 12 way joystick for Ikari warriors ect...  Talk about an all around great solution!

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #79 on: April 27, 2005, 10:14:33 am »
The only bad thing... and not really a bad thing at all... Is the 16 way (or whatever) that was designed to give a solution for 720 doesn't work that well.

Please, let's be clear on the 16-way mode.  It was not "designed as a solution for 720."

 A 16-way mode was requested by someone that was a big help to the project from day 1 and it was included.  There's really only one way that a 16-way can be implemented on these sticks (regardless of what some choose to believe about how many ways there are to do things in a grander philosophical sense) and it was done.  That's all that went into that mode of operation and it was left in because it may be an option someone finds valuable for something along the way. It is not something one should focus on as being anything close to a primary feature of the device.

Think of it as the microphone jack on your boombox.  You'll probably never use it, but it's not making your CD's sound worse by being there. :)

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #80 on: April 27, 2005, 10:38:56 am »
Please, let's be clear on the 16-way mode.  It was not "designed as a solution for 720."
IIRC, Kremmit wanted it for 720, and another member wanted it for an Intellivision controller (but I don't remember who the Intellivision guy was).

But, yes, to paraphrase RandyT, "If you are building a small classics panel and only want a single joystick and 2 buttons, plus Start, Coin, Pause and Esc, and decide to go with a KeyWiz encoder, it doesn't make it a bad product b/c it has 22 inputs and 24 shifted inputs that you won't use".
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #82 on: April 27, 2005, 09:26:31 pm »
Yes buy it from Randy.

Day 1: I saw the sale at happs for 25 and bought 2 of them.

Day 4: I bought the encoders.

Day 5: I got my shipping invoice from happs.  Negativing my savings and then some.

Day 6: Encoders arrive (still no sticks)

Day 12:  Sticks arrive from happs, same as randy sells but happs was longer to ship and more expensive in total.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2005, 11:43:48 pm »
Yup, I was the guy who wanted  the 16-way, (Thanks to Randy for tossing it in for me) and I wanted it for 720.  It turns out that RAW49 mode works better for 720 anyway, at least in my testing.  I mentioned the Intellivision emulator thing in the other thread, and somebody mentioned it here more recently- I hope it works for that, but have not tested it. 


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2005, 01:51:33 am »
Since this thread is still active, and people are still looking for the encoders...

I've got a pair up for sale in the B/S/T forum.  Here's the post.

I haven't received any response yet, so I'm probably going to drop the price listed, but seriously... make an offer.  If you want to get a pair of the original encoders on the cheap, this is the way to do it.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2005, 10:03:34 am »
Yes buy it from Randy.

Day 1: I saw the sale at happs for 25 and bought 2 of them.

Day 4: I bought the encoders.

Day 5: I got my shipping invoice from happs.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2005, 02:37:48 pm »
Randy, I am redaing the readme file and some questions have come up.

Code: [Select]
The first thing the software will do is look at your system to see how many GP-Wiz49 interfaces it can find.  These will be indicated by the LED display at the lower right of the screen turning yellow for each one it enounters.  If you want to re-scan for interfaces, clicking on the LEDs will start that process anew.
After your selections have been made, you may then hit the "GO" button in the lower right corner of the screen.  The LED display at the lower right corner of the screen will then change the LED color to green as each interface is set.  When complete, the software will exit.

So the software sends the DRS Mode to all connected joystick in automatic mode too?

Code: [Select]
This will allow you to "turn off" software mode control and re-enable manual button switching by leaving all DRS Mode Icons unselected and clicking the "GO" button."
Does that mean if I turned a DRS mode on I can not use the manual button switching technique?
If so then:
Code: [Select]
GPWIZ49.exe 1
GPWIZ49.exe 2
...and so on.
Should a 0 option be added to allow manual switching.


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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2005, 03:04:44 pm »
Another question.... when you call the program from commandline, is there any way to disable the graphic that pops up?

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2005, 12:30:48 pm »
Randy, I am redaing the readme file and some questions have come up.

Code: [Select]
The first thing the software will do is look at your system to see how many GP-Wiz49 interfaces it can find.  These will be indicated by the LED display at the lower right of the screen turning yellow for each one it enounters.  If you want to re-scan for interfaces, clicking on the LEDs will start that process anew.
After your selections have been made, you may then hit the "GO" button in the lower right corner of the screen.  The LED display at the lower right corner of the screen will then change the LED color to green as each interface is set.  When complete, the software will exit.

So the software sends the DRS Mode to all connected joystick in automatic mode too?

I started reading the entire thread, got my answer to this one, but not the other questions.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #89 on: September 15, 2005, 04:28:18 pm »
So the software sends the DRS Mode to all connected joystick in automatic mode too?

Yes.

Quote
Code: [Select]
This will allow you to "turn off" software mode control and re-enable manual button switching by leaving all DRS Mode Icons unselected and clicking the "GO" button."
Does that mean if I turned a DRS mode on I can not use the manual button switching technique?

No.  It means that if a DRS mode is activated via the software the unit goes into a software selection only mode until it is de-activated by the software (or the unit is powered down).  This allows the continued use of the "shift" button without concerns that someone could unknowingly switch the joystick mode.

Quote
If so then:
Code: [Select]
GPWIZ49.exe 1
GPWIZ49.exe 2
...and so on.
Should a 0 option be added to allow manual switching.

Provided the source wasn't lost in a recent HD crash on my dev machine, I'll look at adding this shortly.  It's the first request I've had for this one as I would guess most would tend to use one or the other.  But some may find it desireable to use both methods and may not have a mouse or trackball handy.

Another question.... when you call the program from commandline, is there any way to disable the graphic that pops up?

Not currently.  I'll consider a special "silent" version, but I don't wish to add more command line options to the utility.

I have 5 lollitops and two 49-way sticks. I can't get anything to fit, and it's a QC problem at Happ to the best of my knowledge at this point after talking to Randy and much grief over the issue.

Not a "QC problem".  That would indicate negligence.  This is just a matter of whether the stick will perform as you would like, based on the current manufacturing specifications.  .005" of slop doesn't seem like much, until you see what the angle translates it to over the distance of the shaft.

Quote
The other problem with the 49-way joystick I have experienced is that the grommet does not return to center perfectly. I experienced this as letting go of the joystick in donkey kong, and mario doesn't stop, and I die. Sucks.

That's one reason I'd like control of the 7x7 map is to broaden the dead zone to exclude a 3x3 inside grid for no movement instead of a 1x1 grid.

This approach would be somewhat counter productive.  One thing you have to keep in mind is that the 49-ways were not designed specifically for what we are doing with them.  The slop in the stock sticks can be enough to actuate the first level sensor, especially when coupled with a "stiff" centering grommet.   In a normal 49-way game, this would create a very slow (or ignored) movement.  In 4-way DRS
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 04:57:52 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #90 on: September 15, 2005, 04:52:19 pm »
Quote
Code: [Select]
This will allow you to "turn off" software mode control and re-enable manual button switching by leaving all DRS Mode Icons unselected and clicking the "GO" button."
Does that mean if I turned a DRS mode on I can not use the manual button switching technique?

No.  It means that if a DRS mode is activited via the software the unit goes into a software selection only mode until it is de-activated by the software (or the unit is powered down).  This allows the continued use of the "shift" button without concerns that someone could unknowingly switch the joystick mode.
...
But some may find it desireable to use both methods and may not have a mouse or trackball handy.
That's why I ask, if you use the software in automatic mode is there a way to take it softwareware selection mode.  A user might want to override a setting from the frontend if they are debugging a problem.  But you are right, other than that you are only going to use one or the other.


Thanks for the info.  I will, probably shortly, have a nice little command line utility that takes listxml and controls.dat xml files to determine what mode gpwiz49 will go into.

Your software is supported by windows 95 and up, right?  I think .NET can be installed on 95 and up.  Since I am currently learning C# I will be making this utility out of that.  And I will probably make it open source, though since it won't really do much.  It probably isn't going to spark any interest from developers other than seeing how I used  SAX/expat for xml parsing.

FYI to developers reading this, there is something called SAX for .NET.  It's a SAX wrapper for expat.  It is fast.  The full 26meg listxml loaded in their treeview demo in like 20 seconds.  MSXML 4.0 takes about 1 minute to load listxml into a DOMDocument object.  I am also looking into what ListGen.NET uses since that loads listxml about 10 seconds.  (on my AMD64 3200)

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #91 on: September 15, 2005, 09:29:18 pm »
Would 4 49 Way sticks mean 4 cables coming out of the CP?

If I decided on 4 sticks, 4 GP 49 Way PCBs and 4 ball tops, could I get the ball tops installed on your end?

The goal is a dedicated cocktail table for Mutant Storm.  49 Way pseudo-analog is more than enough directions for this game.  I'm not confident that my old CH Mach 3s will survive hacking.
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #92 on: September 15, 2005, 09:43:43 pm »
Would 4 49 Way sticks mean 4 cables coming out of the CP?

I would use a hub in this instance.  We offer a very reasonably priced 4 device unit at the store.

Quote
If I decided on 4 sticks, 4 GP 49 Way PCBs and 4 ball tops, could I get the ball tops installed on your end?

Absolutely.  Anyone who orders the 49-way and replacement shaft from us need only leave a note in the comment box to have us do the install before sending it out.  We even give a $2.00 per unit discount for buying the combo (it will be deducted at the time the card is charged.)

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #93 on: September 15, 2005, 10:34:51 pm »
How long is the cable on that hub? 


and while I'm at it: those dust washers you sell, would they fit a Happ Super stick or a thinner-shaft ball top better?

I tried to replace some super sticks with a custom ball top and the hole in the dust washer was just too big.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2005, 11:51:21 pm »
Would 4 49 Way sticks mean 4 cables coming out of the CP?

If I decided on 4 sticks, 4 GP 49 Way PCBs and 4 ball tops, could I get the ball tops installed on your end?

The goal is a dedicated cocktail table for Mutant Storm.  49 Way pseudo-analog is more than enough directions for this game.  I'm not confident that my old CH Mach 3s will survive hacking.

Darn you!  I'm building a dedicated Mutant Storm!  Me first!  Me, Me, ME!

Actually, I'm building it into an upright cab, so I guess we're both first- sort of.  I'd like to talk to you about your design, but I'll PM you and not clutter an already-too long thread with off-topic stuff.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #95 on: September 16, 2005, 03:45:07 am »
Add me to the list of people who would love to see a silent (ie no UI) version of the GPWiz software!  -james

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #96 on: September 16, 2005, 07:57:57 am »
Quote
Add me to the list of people who would love to see a silent (ie no UI) version of the GPWiz software!
Me as well. Thanks!

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #97 on: September 16, 2005, 04:38:53 pm »
The other problem with the 49-way joystick I have experienced is that the grommet does not return to center perfectly. I experienced this as letting go of the joystick in donkey kong, and mario doesn't stop, and I die. Sucks.

That's one reason I'd like control of the 7x7 map is to broaden the dead zone to exclude a 3x3 inside grid for no movement instead of a 1x1 grid.

This approach would be somewhat counter productive.  One thing you have to keep in mind is that the 49-ways were not designed specifically for what we are doing with them.  The slop in the stock sticks can be enough to actuate the first level sensor, especially when coupled with a "stiff" centering grommet.   In a normal 49-way game, this would create a very slow (or ignored) movement.  In 4-way DRS
Robin
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #98 on: September 16, 2005, 04:53:11 pm »
MAMEwise couldn't you just change the ad_deadzone if you wanted to.  Same results.

Currently that's the only place I would use a 4way and off the top of my head can't think of another.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #99 on: September 16, 2005, 05:57:24 pm »
This has been discussed before, but. . . .

I don't see how having the option of changing the sensitivity level is "counter productive" or "negatively change the functionality".

It's quite simple.  If the 4-way mode no longer works well after changing the dead-zone (or tantamount to that, 4-way games do not play well)  then it's not really a suitable replacement for a 4-way stick, thus defeating the purpose of the interface.

Quote
The reasons you listed above are the reasons why Ahigh is asking for adding the option of changing the dead zone.  He doesn't want to force everyone else to have to have his 3x3 dead zone.

I disagree completely.  No offense intended to Ahigh, but he is asking to overcome a mechanical deficiency by changing the way the interface operates.  This would be like trying to add horsepower to your engine because your brakes are sticking and robbing you of speed.

To get the full benefit of the features built into the interface, you must first have a properly working joystick.  The fact that it is actuating any of the sensors when it should be at rest, indicates that there is a problem.  A problem that can be remedied with a little guidance from one who understands it,  and after the sale, whose job it is to provide it!

Quote
  It's more like you're forcing everyone to have a highly sensitive 4-way joystick, even if they would prefer a lower sensitivity (even after fixing the return to center problem).  Look at the dozens of joysticks out there, and the past threads in this forum on opinions on which is the best joystick for fighter/shmups/general/4-way/other games.

Forcing???  We're getting a little silly now, aren't we?

No-one is forcing anything on anyone.  Is XArcade forcing anyone to use clicky buttons because they don't offer an alternative?  Is IL forcing anyone to use microswitch based, long throw sticks because they don't offer an optical solution or provide a mechanism for adjustable restriction levels?

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It might not be that easy though.  There are many algorithms that could be used in the 7x7 to 4-way translation, and many of them aren't very open to altering the dead zone size.  I don't know which one the gwiz49 uses (nor do I need to), so I don't know if it's open to set-ablity.  [shrug] 

Not to mention there are physical reasons related to the construction of the stick that are very important to the gameplay aspect.

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I know you tested it out, but even if 99% of the people would choose the default setting afterwards (ie: 1x1 deadzone) some people (me included) don't feel good blindly following what other people's reviews say without testing it out the differences themselves to see how well the different setting feel to them. 

So to draw a parallel in the "real world", are you saying that when an engineer designs a laser printer, he should provide a user-option to focus the laser because 1% don't trust that the machine was designed properly?  Or so that those "who like to experiment" can see what awful output it creates when de-focused compared to the proper factory settings, "just so they can be sure it was designed properly"?

The first time someone wrote a review about the blurry text quality of the printer, without understanding the nuances of the focus control, the engineer that provided one would be out of a job.....if the business was around long enough for him to get fired because of it.   ;)

RandyT




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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #100 on: September 16, 2005, 05:59:53 pm »
I'd also like to see a silent commandline version as well.


Thanks!

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #101 on: September 16, 2005, 06:11:02 pm »
I don't understand what you're saying.  Let me ask you some questions, because maybe I'm dead wrong about what I've been thinking.

Then please re-read what I wrote.  It's important to me that you get the full value of the products you gave your hard-earned money for. 

If you thought you needed to install a 4-way in the same panel, or worse, buy another interface to drive it (even as much as I would like the additional sales)  then I need to make sure some things are clear about the designs.

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I was merely trying to (a) suggest people buy 49-ways from you instead of Happ, and to (b) suggest how you could improve your product.

Appreciated, as always.

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I hope my comments didn't hit a sore spot and come across as a complaint.  Maybe you should re-read my post.

Not at all and I read it fine the first time.  But if you have to replace the functionality of the setup with other devices, then something is amiss.  If I didn't point that out to you, it would be doing you a disservice as one of my customers.

RandyT
« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 06:14:57 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2005, 08:04:19 pm »
So to answer the above question specifically, what is the answer (anybody, not just Randy).

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2005, 08:45:16 pm »
This has been discussed before, but. . . .

I don't see how having the option of changing the sensitivity level is "counter productive" or "negatively change the functionality".

It's quite simple.  If the 4-way mode no longer works well after changing the dead-zone (or tantamount to that, 4-way games do not play well)  then it's not really a suitable replacement for a 4-way stick, thus defeating the purpose of the interface.

I am NOT asking to make the default different from what it is now.  Option, Randy, option.  If I decided to make it "not play well", it would be my choosing.

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The reasons you listed above are the reasons why Ahigh is asking for adding the option of changing the dead zone.  He doesn't want to force everyone else to have to have his 3x3 dead zone.

I disagree completely.  No offense intended to Ahigh, but he is asking to overcome a mechanical deficiency by changing the way the interface operates.  This would be like trying to add horsepower to your engine because your brakes are sticking and robbing you of speed.

 ::)  More like having a car that sometimes accelarates without stepping on the gas.  I first greased the pedal etc, but that didn't help.  I could continue playing with it, and die many times in the proccess (by those ghosts/kong thrown barrels), or I could either open up the car and physically loosening the throttle to the gas pedal, or change the firmware to subtract x amount.

It's true a perfect working stick would make things better, yes, but your interface might* (see below) be able to mask the stick's defaults.

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Quote
  It's more like you're forcing everyone to have a highly sensitive 4-way joystick, even if they would prefer a lower sensitivity (even after fixing the return to center problem).  Look at the dozens of joysticks out there, and the past threads in this forum on opinions on which is the best joystick for fighter/shmups/general/4-way/other games.

Forcing???  We're getting a little silly now, aren't we?

Silly, no.  Not clear in my writing, yes.  If I buy your interface, I am buying a highly sensitive 4-way and 8-way stick (among the other modes), even if I'd perfer a less sensitive stick, or think I do.  But I can't test if I, not you, if I play better with the middle 9x9 grid ignored.  Maybe you're right, but I can't test myself to it.  I'm more for testing me and my likes, than your interface.

If I buy Xarcade, I buy clickly-clicks.  If I buy your 49-way interface, I buy a high sensitivity 4-way.  I have the option of pulling the clicky-clicks, but I don't have the option of pulling the high sensitivity from your interface.  And you are the only prebuilt option for 49-way to 4/8-way & analog.  Not exactly "force", but "buying into a certain sensitivity" is longer to say.

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I know you tested it out, but even if 99% of the people would choose the default setting afterwards (ie: 1x1 deadzone) some people (me included) don't feel good blindly following what other people's reviews say without testing it out the differences themselves to see how well the different setting feel to them. 

So to draw a parallel in the "real world", are you saying that when an engineer designs a laser printer, he should provide a user-option to focus the laser because 1% don't trust that the machine was designed properly? 

No.  I'd say between 5%-25% here would want to test the different levels; I'm going on your say so that only 1% would keep a non-default sensitivity. 
And good and higher quality color laser and inkjet let you make adjustments to the head alinements, contrast, etc (but usually not focus) in case the default settings aren't the best for whatever reason (such as shipping, manufacturing differences, temperture, humidity, etc).  The defaults are "good enough" most of the time, but the adjustments are there anyway.  The ones that don't have the adjustments are usually the cheapo "buy for free" trash.

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Or so that those "who like to experiment" can see what awful output it creates when de-focused compared to the proper factory settings, "just so they can be sure it was designed properly"?

The first time someone wrote a review about the blurry text quality of the printer, without understanding the nuances of the focus control, the engineer that provided one would be out of a job.....if the business was around long enough for him to get fired because of it.   ;)

Which is what defaults are for. 
Look at the many PC motherboard manufacturers make overclockable MB, even if only 1%-5% buyers continue to overclock after playing with it.  Some MBs aren't for overclocking, sure, but most BYO MBs have some level of overclocking.


*However, from what you're saying here, especially from the similes you use, I'm guessing the gwiz49 uses an algorithm that doesn't go well with adjustable levels.  At some point I should test wiring a 49-way old school and see if I can get 4-way action with a 3x3 deadzone grid.  After I update Analog+. :-[
Robin
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2005, 10:29:26 pm »
I am NOT asking to make the default different from what it is now.  Option, Randy, option.  If I decided to make it "not play well", it would be my choosing.

It would also reflect poorly on the product in the eyes of those who might not fully understand the interface or how it works.  Word of mouth is the most important advertising one can have for a product.  If a product gets a "bad rap" because someone sets it up incorrectly, it can be devastating, even though the problem was only perceived.

This was what my laser printer parallel was meant to illustrate and you completely missed the point.  If I wanted to talk "inkjet printers", I would have.  Inkjets have adjustments because of the loose manufacturing tolerances on the heads and how they are held in the printer.  Alignment is ALWAYS necessary.  Apples and oranges.

There are so many options on the interface now, I think it's confusing and scary enough to the novice.   Options are great, but when they begin to overwhelm, you have a problem.

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::)  More like having a car that sometimes accelarates without stepping on the gas.


You are talking about the problem with the stick, which I said needs to be fixed.  You aren't even drawing your analogy on the same premise.

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If I buy Xarcade, I buy clickly-clicks.  If I buy your 49-way interface, I buy a high sensitivity 4-way.  I have the option of pulling the clicky-clicks, but I don't have the option of pulling the high sensitivity from your interface.  And you are the only prebuilt option for 49-way to 4/8-way & analog.  Not exactly "force", but "buying into a certain sensitivity" is longer to say.

If you buy an Xarcade only to pull the controls, you should have researched your purchase better or emailed me about a panel kit ;) .  And you can't change the throw or clickiness of a Super joystick either.  How does that fall into your equation?  Should we direct the petition to HAPP or directly to Industrias Lorenzo :) ?

BTW, anyone who thinks that a joystick with a fairly strong rubber centering grommet is going to be more comfortable or accurate to use if one were required to push it further off center, where the resistance grows exponentially, should probably research their purchases (and some other things) a little better as well.

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And good and higher quality color laser and inkjet let you make adjustments to the head alinements, contrast, etc (but usually not focus) in case the default settings aren't the best for whatever reason (such as shipping, manufacturing differences, temperture, humidity, etc).  The defaults are "good enough" most of the time, but the adjustments are there anyway.  The ones that don't have the adjustments are usually the cheapo "buy for free" trash.

As mentioned above, this analogy doesn't cut it.  Any time you have consumer grade devices where colors must be overlaid precisely, there will always be the need for alignment.  Even on the "cheapo "buy for free" trash."  That is why I didn't mention color in my analogy.

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Which is what defaults are for. 
Look at the many PC motherboard manufacturers make overclockable MB, even if only 1%-5% buyers continue to overclock after playing with it.  Some MBs aren't for overclocking, sure, but most BYO MBs have some level of overclocking.

Well, this isn't a BYO interface, it's a fully tested product that will work well within the confines of it's intended use.  I took so much heat for this device that a sane man would have walked away shaking his head and taken up farming.  But I felt comfortable making the statement and stuck by it because of the testing that had gone into it.  Strangely, some of the very same people who doubted such a thing could even work now seem to think they can do it better  :)  (present company excluded....)

As for your analogy, don't think of it as the motherboard, rather the CPU.  Look at the lengths they go to so as to prevent modification of the CPU for the purposes of overclocking.  Part of it is a money grab, certainly, but the rest of it revolves around support issues, warranty, marketing, quality perception and so-on.  Sure, Billy can run his 1.2 at 3ghz.  But when it catches on fire, for some reason Billy never has a problem talking about how crappy the processors are.   And the people who listen to Billy don't know he's an evil overclocker and just hear the negative noise that sways their perception of the product, so the manufacturers do their best to make sure Billy can only run his 1.2 at 1.2ghz.

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*However, from what you're saying here, especially from the similes you use, I'm guessing the gwiz49 uses an algorithm that doesn't go well with adjustable levels.  At some point I should test wiring a 49-way old school and see if I can get 4-way action with a 3x3 deadzone grid.  After I update Analog+. :-[

There are only 49 possible positions for these sticks.  Giving up any of them at all is not a good thing unless absolutely necessary.  Some modes are more forgiving of a deadzone than others and this is based heavily on the types of games associated with those modes.  And that's all I have to say about that ;)

RandyT

« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 10:34:12 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2005, 02:20:21 am »
MAMEwise couldn't you just change the ad_deadzone if you wanted to.  Same results.

Did anybody else hear this?

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2005, 12:23:03 pm »
MAMEwise couldn't you just change the ad_deadzone if you wanted to.  Same results.

Did anybody else hear this?

Yes, sorry.  Meant to respond, but didn't make it that far.

This approach won't work with the DRS

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« Last Edit: September 17, 2005, 03:47:07 pm by RandyT »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #108 on: September 17, 2005, 05:17:16 pm »
Would 4 49 Way sticks mean 4 cables coming out of the CP?
I would use a hub in this instance.  We offer a very reasonably priced 4 device unit at the store.
Would the hub need to be powered or would plugging the CP hub into the amplified hub be sufficient?

Sorry I'm not harassing you. :P  That seems to be the theme here.
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #109 on: September 17, 2005, 06:34:10 pm »
Scores between Ahigh and RandyT are meaningless here. 

I STILL haven't gotten past the first level in Donkey Kong.  So I think it's safe to assume that RandyT with an old worn out X-Arcade super clone in 8-Way mode could Whoop --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- on me with a 49-Way or Reunion stick in 4-way mode.

Does that mean we should all go buy X-Arcade clones for Donkey Kong?  What it means is we need comparisons between the same player using both sticks on different games.
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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #110 on: September 17, 2005, 10:36:01 pm »
Scores between Ahigh and RandyT are meaningless here. 

I STILL haven't gotten past the first level in Donkey Kong. 

And I thought I sucked.   :P

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2005, 09:12:54 am »
MAMEwise couldn't you just change the ad_deadzone if you wanted to.  Same results.

Did anybody else hear this?

Yes, sorry.  Meant to respond, but didn't make it that far.

This approach won't work with the DRS

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #112 on: September 18, 2005, 09:59:26 am »
Would 4 49 Way sticks mean 4 cables coming out of the CP?
I would use a hub in this instance.  We offer a very reasonably priced 4 device unit at the store.
Would the hub need to be powered or would plugging the CP hub into the amplified hub be sufficient?

There should be sufficient power to drive up to 4 interfaces on a non-powered hub.

RandyT

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2005, 10:26:49 am »

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #114 on: September 18, 2005, 01:30:38 pm »
Dumb question...

Will the 16 way circle formation allow you to play 720?

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2005, 01:59:56 pm »
I hear that the 16 way mode is pretty much good for nothing.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2005, 03:57:23 pm »
Dumb question...

Will the 16 way circle formation allow you to play 720?

That was the idea, but Raw49 mode seems to work better.  The 16 way mode may have use with Intellivision emulators, but nobody's reported on that.

720 details here.

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Re: GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2006, 01:44:08 pm »
With all of the recent discussion, it got me thinking of this thread..... do we have the option to expand the deadzone yet?  It would still be a nice feature.